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Panzeh posted:People are just going to be more attracted to it because it's sci-fi, though the funny thing is, the abstractions in COIN don't really let the sci-fi show through so i doubt it'll really feel it in anything other than the events. Maybe I'm being dense but I don't understand why you think the abstractions of a COIN game would or would not shine through specifically from an SF perspective? The system seems pliable enough to fit whatever you want into it with a bit of work and creativity. Falling Skies isn't exactly a 1:1 fit and they still managed it there. Haven't played Pendragon so can't speak to that one. I think it has been brought up here before but if someone made a Star Wars COIN game it'd be a license to print money because God knows I'd be first in line for it and everything appears to line up perfectly. The Eyes Have It posted:At its heart COIN is all about playing "What If?" about the timing and impact of key events, not just as discrete things but in terms of momentum and advantage. I never personally saw it as a limitation, but compared to other war games (which also are all about playing "What If?") then yeah, it's more fenced in for sure as a result. I was wondering about this myself too: no one playing a COIN game for the first time will know what events are going to actually show up aside from maybe having an idea of significant historical moments and anticipating them. Seeing how things are going to go after divorcing any historical anchor will be interesting for this upcoming one.
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Dec 9, 2020 17:32
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FulsomFrank posted:Maybe I'm being dense but I don't understand why you think the abstractions of a COIN game would or would not shine through specifically from an SF perspective? The system seems pliable enough to fit whatever you want into it with a bit of work and creativity. Falling Skies isn't exactly a 1:1 fit and they still managed it there. Haven't played Pendragon so can't speak to that one. I think it has been brought up here before but if someone made a Star Wars COIN game it'd be a license to print money because God knows I'd be first in line for it and everything appears to line up perfectly. I think that's Star Wars Rebellion.
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Dec 9, 2020 18:20
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FulsomFrank posted:I think it has been brought up here before but if someone made a Star Wars COIN game it'd be a license to print money because God knows I'd be first in line for it and everything appears to line up perfectly. So Empire, Rebellion, Cartel, Yuuzhan Vong? 
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Dec 9, 2020 19:05
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Stickman posted:So Empire, Rebellion, Cartel, Yuuzhan Vong? Yeah I was struggling with a fourth one and my knowledge of the EU is a bit rusty. Would it be too similar having the Black Sun and Hutt Cartel as two other ones?
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Dec 9, 2020 19:23
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The Originals, The Special Editions, The Prequels, the Disney.
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Dec 9, 2020 19:49
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homullus posted:is CL making light of it, or is CL making light of Batista's attitude toward it? Even if it's the latter, it's a pretty playful remark in a book that's otherwise serious.
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Dec 9, 2020 19:53
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Having read the Counterinsurgency book that 'inspired' the COIN games, even within that book they emphasise that there isn't a one size fits all model to COIN, and that adapting to local circumstance and building understanding and connection to the specific dynamics within the theatre is essential. Obviously the games are going to be a little hamstrung by having a core 'model' to build from, but given the sweeping changes you see comparing Andean Abyss to games like Gandhi and Pendragon, you can see that the designers are aware that it's not a universal model.
The End fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 9, 2020 21:14
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The End posted:Having read the Counterinsurgency book that 'inspired' the COIN games, even within that book they emphasise that there isn't a one size fits all model to COIN, and that adapting to local circumstance and building understanding and connection to the specific dynamics within the theatre is essential. Obviously the games are going to be a little hamstrung by having a core 'model' to build from, but given the sweeping changes you see comparing Andean Abyss to games like Gandhi and Pendragon, you can see that the designers aren't aware that it's not a universal model. This is the real inspiration https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhhoS3zOskE
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Dec 9, 2020 21:35
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Having the urge to finally pick up Inis even though 1. I'm only playing games in person with my SO right now and 2. We mainly play coops when it's just the two of us. It looks so good though. Edit: oh hey semi related to 2 player gaming is the newly announced and available for order Cthulhu Wars: Duel for $30! Radioactive Toy fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 11, 2020 03:15
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Radioactive Toy posted:Having the urge to finally pick up Inis even though 1. I'm only playing games in person with my SO right now and 2. We mainly play coops when it's just the two of us. It looks so good though. Standees? Is this a sick joke?
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Dec 11, 2020 04:36
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they look better than the minis lets fight 
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Dec 11, 2020 04:56
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I'm back on my bullshit and ordered Small World of Warcraft. Picked up Poetry for Neanderthals on top for a NYE party, so looking forward to slapping the ever loving poo poo out of my mates with the inflatable NO stick. Can't decide if I want to pickup Pandemic Legacy Season 0 or Twilight Imperium for Christmas  Might be able to pickup Champions of Midgard if I go the Pandemic route... Infinitum fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 11, 2020 05:07
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Dang Duel looks sweet. Why are there so many 2p only games
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Dec 11, 2020 07:33
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Radioactive Toy posted:Having the urge to finally pick up Inis even though 1. I'm only playing games in person with my SO right now and 2. We mainly play coops when it's just the two of us. It looks so good though. I also picked up Inis this year even though my board game group is on hiatus because of the pandemic..I've played it exactly once with my SO and otherwise it sits on my shelf and looks pretty. Still no regrets.
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Dec 11, 2020 16:39
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Inis is a surprisingly great 2p game.
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Dec 11, 2020 16:52
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Cole Wehrle and Patrick Leder have done a few interviews now talking about the new Root expansion. I’m pretty excited that each new expansion seems to be pretty thoughtful in its purpose and isn’t just more content for the sake of
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Dec 11, 2020 17:11
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Bottom Liner posted:Inis is a surprisingly great 2p game. seconded
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Dec 11, 2020 17:24
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Jewmanji posted:Cole Wehrle and Patrick Leder have done a few interviews now talking about the new Root expansion. I’m pretty excited that each new expansion seems to be pretty thoughtful in its purpose and isn’t just more content for the sake of The most inspiring bit is how they talk about how much more playtesting adding even one more faction requires. They use paid playtesters and Cole was upfront with Patrick about how each new expansion would require exponentially more playtesting (and investment) and Patrick said ok do it. I also liked how Cole said after a single day of playtesting the players had played Root more than most people that own the game lol.
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Dec 11, 2020 17:46
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Bottom Liner posted:The most inspiring bit is how they talk about how much more playtesting adding even one more faction requires. They use paid playtesters and Cole was upfront with Patrick about how each new expansion would require exponentially more playtesting (and investment) and Patrick said ok do it. I own base game and all three expansions and I doubt I've played the game more than 15 times. It's horrifically depressing. Each time I play with anyone other than my spouse its usually their first time, and one really difficult thing about Root is that you're pretty handicapped until you understand and appreciate the value of the cards which inevitably comes after you've learned a couple of factions. Even listening to the Space Cats Peace Turtles podcast depresses me because there's clearly such a rich amount of strategy in this game that I've barely been able to scratch the surface of. Anyway, I'm excited that the new expansion will emphasize 2 player games since that's unfortunately what I'm most often playing. And the concept of the minor factions has super high potential.
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Dec 11, 2020 18:01
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Been on a huge Root kick lately. My first game as vagabond had me turn on the cats right at the end and emerge from the woods fully armed into their base. I used False Orders to move their army to the other side of the board right into the middle of bird town (I had conveniently fed them a Tunnel card which they crafted), and burned everything to the ground while this played in my head. In summation, 
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Dec 11, 2020 18:28
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I really wish I liked Root more than I do. It's such a cool premise and I like many individual aspects of the design. I simply can't shake the feeling that at the end of the day it just plays out like Munchkin with a fancy coat of paint on top. Everytime I play the game ends up turning into a round robin of bash-the-leader until the turn where everyone runs out of ways to do so, and then that person wins. I actually think this is inherent in Cole's game design, as it features into many of his games, but it works much better in Pax Pamir imo. It's one of the reasons I did not back Oath. Just from watching the gameplay video I could tell it was going to end up with the same issue. Noted. I will give it another look when it comes out then. Like Root, I loved the overall design of Oath and was right on the fence of backing it despite my concerns. If he changed the design that could easily push me over the edge. ||||||||||||||||||||| \/\/\/\/\/\/ Megasabin fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 11, 2020 19:54
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It’s worth noting Oath has substantially changed since the KS, enough so that I late pledged because the changes seem very promising. So definitely still give it a try if you get the chance. I think it’s now closer to an evolution on Pamir than to Root.
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Dec 11, 2020 19:56
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Digital versions of board games equals vastly more playtime. The physical copies of some of my games have maybe two plays, but the digital ones have tons. Heck, I don't even OWN physical copies of some of my favorite most-played recent games. Don't get me wrong, I'm a highly touch-and-feel person. I think better with my eyeballs. A physical copy of a game is great, but some digital implementations are really wonderful. e: And some games benefit immensely from automated upkeep and bookkeeping. The Eyes Have It fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 11, 2020 19:59
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The Eyes Have It posted:Digital versions of board games equals vastly more playtime. The physical copies of some of my games have maybe two plays, but the digital ones have tons. Heck, I don't even OWN physical copies of some of my favorite most-played recent games. Maybe in the next year this supposed mage knight app will be done. Playing on TTS is tedious to me.
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Dec 11, 2020 20:04
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Yeah, I backed Oath because the legacy mechanic was neat but the design diaries show it evolving into something that might be good beyond that
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Dec 11, 2020 20:04
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I find Root really fragile and a nightmare to teach and since I play it so infrequently I always feel like I'm starting square one. It's the type of game that if you had a dedicated group that could get together and play it constantly and know it in and out maybe it'd be a hit but as it stands with me I can barely keep a tab on my own actions let alone worrying about every other faction's shenanigans.tokenbrownguy posted:I’m on game ~20 of Root and enjoying it. It helps to have organized a consistent monthly group, so you get to know the personalities you’re playing as much as the factions. Was hilarious to watch a good Corvid player sweep two games in a row and then get dog piled the next three. I think that's brilliant. Personally I find it next to impossible to teach a game/provide advice without letting Jesus take the wheel but I know too many people that when teaching a game are more focused on winning than actually helping people learn, which falls squarely into my "never signing on to be someone's board game punching bag" philosophy. There are also very few games that I think I'm enough of a shark at to have to pull serious punches. FulsomFrank fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 11, 2020 20:30
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I’m on game ~20 of Root and enjoying it. It helps to have organized a consistent monthly group, so you get to know the personalities you’re playing as much as the factions. Was hilarious to watch a good Corvid player sweep two games in a row and then get dog piled the next three. Our most veteran player is also probably the least effective, so it’s also interesting to have someone who can give good advise but isn’t also ruthlessly chasing the win every game.
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Dec 11, 2020 20:37
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FulsomFrank posted:I was wondering about this myself too: no one playing a COIN game for the first time will know what events are going to actually show up aside from maybe having an idea of significant historical moments and anticipating them. Seeing how things are going to go after divorcing any historical anchor will be interesting for this upcoming one. This is from a little while ago but I wanted to say that thinking back to Cuba Libre, not being familiar with the cards (or the historical turning points) didn't feel very limiting. Compare that to, for example, Twilight Struggle, where being familiar with the deck and events felt like a crucial skill. In Cuba Libre, players were always mainly trying to find or set up opportunities to "do two things in a row" because the game is made in a way that your opponents often have an opportunity to act between you setting something up and acting on it. (Example: Government can expose other faction members in cities, but can't expose AND attack them on the same turn so activists often have a chance to scurry first.) I think every faction, in their own way, tries to arrange to first jam in the can opener, and then somehow give it a crank before anyone can stop them. The more they can do that, the faster they win. Twilight Struggle (a brilliant game I do not like, for the record) feels more like it's all about getting to the point of being "well no point in doing anything THERE because the card that scores it won't ever be seen again, I want to boost my presence HERE but there's definitely a "OOPS FLIP COUNTRY'S LOYALTY LOL" card waiting in the deck so it's risky, and so on.
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Dec 11, 2020 20:47
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Eraflure posted:Thoughts on Scythe and Maracaibo? I play with my family (3 players), they mostly prefer medium weight cooperative stuff but they want to give competitive games another go and they asked me about those two games. From what I've seen, Scythe is low interaction and fairly easy to understand, but I'll admit I know nothing about Maracaibo. Scythe is awful and I think the game your group is looking for is Terra Mystica (or Eclipse but I havent played it so I cant speak to its quality). It actually focuses on area control, and the conflict is more about controlling space and actions, so theres very little direct interaction but you still have to think about what your opponents are doing every turn because they might steal your planned action. Downsides: its one of those games where the rules are incredibly complicated but easy to recall due to signage, so it takes a bit to learn and teach. It also has balance problems where some factions are unquestionably worse than others, and the engine building involves a lot of plate spinning where each plate is important, so someone who cant come to grips with all the moving parts will probably crash and burn every game. Oh and it sucks rear end for colorblind or visually impaired people.
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Dec 11, 2020 21:00
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Is Scythe particularly bad for colour blindness?
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Dec 11, 2020 22:35
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Mr. Squishy posted:Is Scythe particularly bad for colour blindness? Meeple Like Us said it was pretty good for colourblind people, with both distinctive colours and shapes for pieces.
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Dec 11, 2020 22:45
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Oh I was talking about Terra Mystica with that comment. As much as I hate it, Scythe did a really good job with its iconography and rules.
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Dec 11, 2020 22:47
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Ah, I missed a segue, my apologies. I'm always interested in complaints about symbolgy though.
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Dec 11, 2020 22:59
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The more I play both the more I agree that Wir sind das Volk! hits my desired notes better than Twilight Struggle.
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Dec 11, 2020 23:09
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I tend to agree that WsdV is much much better than Twilight Struggle. After playing TS probably more than any other board games I own, I just don't particularly like the moving parts of TS anymore.
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Dec 11, 2020 23:33
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Mr. Squishy posted:Ah, I missed a segue, my apologies. I'm always interested in complaints about symbolgy though. So here are the Terra Mystica terrain types:  In order, these are plains, swamp, river, forest, mountains, badlands, and desert. Mountains and badlands have almost nothing to differentiate them other than color, the printing means that certain tiles of swamp end up a dark brown rather than black so they can get easily confused with plains, and certain lighting can make all of this blend together even if you arent colorblind. Rivers would likely be the only tile you could quickly identify if this picture was grayscale. The game also uses a lot of brown and red in various tracks and factions which are, according to the colorblind person in my group, really hard to tell apart. Theres also a mechanic that occasionally rewards you with one of these tokens:  On top you have the victory points, on the bottom you have a secondary effect. Each of these is less than an inch across at its longest point, and since this game takes up a huge amount of table space, chances are all these tokens are some distance away. I have a hard time reading these even when Im holding the things, and my corrected vision is pretty sharp. Beyond this, a good bit of the game iconography is overly detailed and busy when it could be clearer or at least more distinct. I love the game but I absolutely cannot recommend it to people with vision issues. Control Volume fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 11, 2020 23:42
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The Eyes Have It posted:Digital versions of board games equals vastly more playtime. The physical copies of some of my games have maybe two plays, but the digital ones have tons. Heck, I don't even OWN physical copies of some of my favorite most-played recent games. I think digital board games desperately need some hosting/spawning/client tech. I haven't bought Root because it sounds uncomfortably close to Munchkin, but I'd take a flier on a $25 digital copy that I could play with my friends. I'm not gonna pay $15 for a copy that I then have to bully my friends into also buying just to try it. That's how board games work, so I'm surprised this has eluded developers so far. Relatedly, I had the chance to play correspondence 18XX on 18XX.games. It's a really good implementation, and I got to try 18Ches; I think I like it better for learning than 1846, but overall I think I like running trains better than pwning stocks. Unfortunately I think 18XX is a horrible asynchronous experience, so I probably won't play again until I can do it in real-time; the stock round is too interactive. Maybe it would be better if I were a veteran and knew when to just say "buy me X until I'm out of cash", or if we were playing something like 1846 with less stock emphasis. But if we were playing in real-time it's a great implementation.
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Dec 12, 2020 03:24
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Apps cost exponentially more to develop AND you don’t have the luxury of up front funding like Kickstarter provides. I get the sentiment of having to ask 2-3 others to buy the game to play together but that’s basically how all digital (non-board) games work. You could always do the Steam screen share hot seat thing. Also, TTS is a great option for trying games out and Leder Games have official free mods for their games available which is really generous considering they also have a dedicated paid app. And yeah 18XX.games is great. I think it’s kinda ruined the idea of playing any of the big games IRL though because the site is just so much more efficient.
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Dec 12, 2020 04:02
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One of my biggest gripes about digital tabletop games (besides bad interfaces, like Tabletop Simulator which does not work for me at all) is crappy multiplayer implementation. Boardgamearena has had a long time to get it right which is nice, and some games like Through the Ages do it great. Others, not so much.
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Dec 12, 2020 04:06
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Speaking of Root, my SA Secret Santa grabbed it for me  so now I get to enjoy a game or two of it over the Christmas break.Is base game fine as it is? What expansions should I pick up if/when the time comes? I heard the Riverfolk Expansion was The Good poo poo.
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Dec 12, 2020 04:11
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