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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:I know this strikes younger people as weird, but humans didn't always use GPS to get around town. In the before time maps often weren't employed at all even if you were lost. Many people asked directions from other humans which centered around organized postal codes or even landmarks. A few decades ago, in the event that someone did in fact need a map to find their way, it was often a highway map that they studied before leaving the house, or one tied to a phone booth at a gas station. Now, I know this must seem archaic, but now let me blow your mind when I say I was there when all this crazy poo poo was going down and it was...normal. BP I think we're the same age, I am old enough to remember whenever we would travel my mom would study her big book of road maps and she would make my brother and i memorize the route... so that we could function as her loving early 90's analogue GPS. In any case, that's still a map. Ghost of Tsushima and Breath of the Wild have the best open-world map mechanics, IMO, because they have a mixture of "Here are some basic landmarks for your map" stuff, but then also do the "populate your map with open world stuff when you ride by it on your horse". It's totally possible for modern open world games to abandon towers and so on, but were never gonna get rid of icons on a map, especially if the "accessibility" conversation becomes a bigger and bigger part of the hobby, because neurotypical people have a wide variety of things that could use traditional pre-internet MAPS to just not click with their brain. Map Icons are for the average video game player, not the jaded video game enthusiast
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Dec 13, 2020 02:51
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Played about 90 mins of Cyberpunk just now, starting with the CorpoRat intro. I thought it was excellent tbh. The voice acting is really really good, Jackie is excellent. I’m playing on a PS4 Pro with the game installed on an internal SSD and the latest patch. It’s running fine. Some very minor pop in at times but haven’t noticed any massive issues so far. I think the calls of cancelling it for current generation are totally overblown. Hopefully after a few more patches it works even better for people on standard PS4 and original Xbox. I love the aesthetic to the game, the lighting and sound design are really nice. The CorpoRat origin has you start at night time inside a massive skyscraper so I think that’s maybe a cooler one than the desert one I saw. I can’t wait to play more next week when I have more time!
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Dec 13, 2020 02:53
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Not having a map only works in Dark Souls through a combination of those games being paced by molasses, being absolutely tiny (square footage wise, at least as far as modern games go) and having really distinct environmental design that you often traverse multiple times and become familiar with. I would never want a map in a souls game because it helps you connect to the environment and adds to the sense of exploration, but it flat out wouldn't work with most games these days which are just way too huge. My favorite approach is how BOTW and Metro Exodus handled it, by marking really important key stuff on your map and then making you seek out landmarks, and discover them yourself. But even that approach only works when you have a spacious world with points of interest spotted around, and those POIs have to be eye catching and unique on your own. I don't know how you'd tackle the issue of map distraction in the average open world game, especially ones set in urban environments. it's not the type of game that is funt to be lost in and I don't know how you'd handle a game like that without GPS.
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Dec 13, 2020 02:55
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Quantum of Phallus posted:Played about 90 mins of Cyberpunk just now, starting with the CorpoRat intro. I thought it was excellent tbh. The voice acting is really really good, Jackie is excellent. I’m playing on a PS4 Pro with the game installed on an internal SSD and the latest patch. It’s running fine. Some very minor pop in at times but haven’t noticed any massive issues so far. I think the calls of cancelling it for current generation are totally overblown. Hopefully after a few more patches it works even better for people on standard PS4 and original Xbox. I feel like all of the VA is pretty top notch except Keanu lol. He's a cool dude but his rep for being a bad actor is legit. Jackie and the dude who gives you the heist are excellent.
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Dec 13, 2020 02:56
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I haven’t met Keanu in it yet. I love the dude, he’s in some of my favourite films ever but he’s definitely not what you’d call a conventionally good actor. I think his absolute best performance is in A Scanner Darkly where he’s playing a undercover cop who’s getting brain damaged from taking drugs. He plays that part uh,..very convincingly.
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Dec 13, 2020 02:59
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Cardiovorax posted:Mind you, not that this is wrong, either... but I spent enough time wandering aimlessly through Vvardenfell based on vague descriptions on to eventually center-on-cell on the quest location that I can't exactly hold it against them that Bethesda decided to move away from that modell for Oblivion. True to form, they completely overdid it in the other direction, but not always having to meticulously search for every bit of random poo poo the game sends you to find has overall been an improvement for me.
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Dec 13, 2020 02:59
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veni veni veni posted:I feel like all of the VA is pretty top notch except Keanu lol. He's a cool dude but his rep for being a bad actor is legit. Jackie and the dude who gives you the heist are excellent. From my limited time with the game, I'd call out Jackie, Evelyn and T-Bug for being particularly good, thus far.
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Dec 13, 2020 02:59
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veni veni veni posted:Map talk It sounds insane to anyone who hasn’t played it but a map in DS1 would’ve been immeasurably detrimental to the game. Truly astonishing level design.
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Dec 13, 2020 03:00
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CottonWolf posted:From my limited time with the game, I'd call out Jackie, Evelyn and T-Bug for being particularly good, thus far. T bug is also great. I love how the characters have personalities to them. I also think all the different body types, shapes and sizes works really really well.
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Dec 13, 2020 03:02
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Volte posted:Yeah, I agree, there was still lots of room for improvement and fleshing out the in-universe exploration aspect. Having map icons in Morrowind would have be fine, if I could turn them off or ignore them and still find my way around. I tried using a mod to disable quest markers and undiscovered waypoints on the map/compass in Oblivion, and it turns out you basically can't find anything then because there's nothing in the game other than the map icon and quest marker to tell you where stuff is. There are lots of ways to integrate the map and waypoints in way that's not just completely giving up on the concept of in-universe navigation, but most open world games seem to just do it the Oblivion way.
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Dec 13, 2020 03:04
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Everything is accelerating though, the new feature in Miles Morales for the PS5 letting you warp to activities from the home screen lol
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Dec 13, 2020 03:05
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Well, it's not like you have to use it, so as far as I'm concerned let the people who enjoy that feature have their fun with it.
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Dec 13, 2020 03:06
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There is so much unnecessary junk in the cyberpunk box. I like manuals and stuff but throwing a bunch of art cards and things that don’t even fit in the Blu-ray case... I can’t get behind that at all. Seems just like a total waste of paper. I always feel so bad when I see that stuff these days. Unless it’s all recycled or something. I dunno.
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Dec 13, 2020 03:07
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Bust Rodd posted:BP I think we're the same age, I am old enough to remember whenever we would travel my mom would study her big book of road maps and she would make my brother and i memorize the route... so that we could function as her loving early 90's analogue GPS. K, well, I was merely trying to impart that we lived in a post-industrial society during a period where people still didn't look at maps for everything, much less navigate to the corner store via siri or alexa hints. That's an argument in favor of there being more games with no maps or limited maps, and they don't just have to be dark souls ancient worlds for it to make sense. The fewer maps there are in games the more effort devs will put into their environments being particularly memorable. SOMA, for example, featured only the most rudimentary map that outlined story progression, and that game was wonderful to explore. Now, let's imagine that example at a larger scale but also more intricate. What this shows us is that contemporary nav-map games are relying on exceptionally stale subsystems of player interaction, and that the way of doing things has not been questioned nearly often enough by devs, like the GTA-esque quest model where the narrative is only advanced through interaction with static quest-giver NPCs. I'd like to think the concept of 'open world' can deliver the goods beyond systems that are so close-minded.
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Dec 13, 2020 03:07
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Quantum of Phallus posted:There is so much unnecessary junk in the cyberpunk box. I like manuals and stuff but throwing a bunch of art cards and things that don’t even fit in the Blu-ray case... I can’t get behind that at all. Seems just like a total waste of paper. I always feel so bad when I see that stuff these days. Unless it’s all recycled or something. I dunno. Yeah. I like the world book, but all the postcards and stickers, I'm just going to put them straight into the rubbish. At least the postcards can be recycled, I guess. Getting the digital soundtrack owns though. All the music they commisioned for the game seems good.
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Dec 13, 2020 03:12
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:I know this strikes younger people as weird, but humans didn't always use GPS to get around town. In the before time maps often weren't employed at all even if you were lost. Many people asked directions from other humans which centered around organized postal codes or even landmarks. A few decades ago, in the event that someone did in fact need a map to find their way, it was often a highway map that they studied before leaving the house, or one tied to a phone booth at a gas station. Now, I know this must seem archaic, but now let me blow your mind when I say I was there when all this crazy poo poo was going down and it was...normal. What you're saying is that things are easier and better now
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Dec 13, 2020 03:35
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I do like when the occasional game is designed around having a completely non interactive map. That can be cool.
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Dec 13, 2020 03:38
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Not having a map suits some games and would make others an insane chore, there's no blanket answer for anything.
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Dec 13, 2020 03:40
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Sakurazuka posted:What you're saying is that things are easier and better now I wouldn't know, I've never had a GPS. Somehow I get by.
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Dec 13, 2020 03:43
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It's really handy when you're trying to find somewhere
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Dec 13, 2020 03:45
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Sakurazuka posted:It's really handy when you're trying to find somewhere I just ask people.
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Dec 13, 2020 03:46
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If anyone ever asks me for directions I have to pull out my phone to tell them usually 
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Dec 13, 2020 03:51
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Sakurazuka posted:there's no blanket answer for anything. 
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Dec 13, 2020 03:55
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What about being cold in bed?
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Dec 13, 2020 04:08
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Hot water bottles! Better than blankets.
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Dec 13, 2020 04:09
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That seems like something my grandma or beanpole would do.
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Dec 13, 2020 04:11
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Well, I inherited the one I'm currently using from my great-grandmother, so I suppose so. You're missing out, though, they're awesome.
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Dec 13, 2020 04:13
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Sakurazuka posted:If anyone ever asks me for directions I have to pull out my phone to tell them usually So that WAS you.  veni veni veni posted:That seems like something my grandma or beanpole would do. Same thing.
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Dec 13, 2020 04:42
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Dec 13, 2020 04:50
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:I just ask people. Feeling safe enough to do this is a position of privilege. Not everyone can just walk up to strangers and cops and ask for directions. Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Dec 13, 2020 |
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Dec 13, 2020 05:25
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I'm really digging Cyberpunk by the way, good times. And on the trusty ol' launch PS4, it hasn't expoded. Tis good, RPG good times. I have the characters and the quests and the stats and the lootin, I am content.
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Dec 13, 2020 05:32
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Bust Rodd posted:Feeling safe enough to do this is a position of privilege. Not everyone can just walk up to strangers and cops and ask for directions. It's true that not everyone can do everything, though talking to people is one of the things that most on this planet can, in fact, do. Also don't talk to cops you dork.
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Dec 13, 2020 05:38
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I find that with waypoints I can spend a hundred hours in a world and still barely know my way around it because I never have to learn to orient myself. It reduces navigation to a single dimension (following the line). The end result is just not engaging or even noticing much of the environment. Makes it interchangeable window dressing. I think it's one of the reasons I tend to be much less immersed in modern video game worlds despite how stunning they look. Waypoints save you from the frustration of getting stuck not knowing what to do (so common in games made 15+ years ago) but there is an immersive quality in being able to be lost in a world.
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Dec 13, 2020 05:38
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That said, you usually can't reasonably play without waypoints in modern open world games. Even the Witcher 3, which went out of it's way to give you oral directions, doesn't really manage this.
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Dec 13, 2020 05:43
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I’m sorta surprised Beanpole even has a TV and a computer at this point
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Dec 13, 2020 05:54
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Hal Incandenza posted:I’m sorta surprised Beanpole even has a TV and a computer at this point lol soon i'm just going to start using a telegraph to send my posts for veni to put up BeanpolePeckerwood fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Dec 13, 2020 |
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Dec 13, 2020 05:55
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Rinkles posted:I find that with waypoints I can spend a hundred hours in a world and still barely know my way around it because I never have to learn to orient myself. It reduces navigation to a single dimension (following the line). The end result is just not engaging or even noticing much of the environment. Makes it interchangeable window dressing. I found that Death Stranding was easy to find my way around in, although you can make your own markers to follow, I didn't have to for a lot of the missions after I was familiar with the map, particularly in the second area.
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Dec 13, 2020 05:59
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Imhotep posted:I found that Death Stranding was easy to find my way around in, although you can make your own markers to follow, I didn't have to for a lot of the missions after I was familiar with the map, particularly in the second area. Yeah I have to play that
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Dec 13, 2020 06:04
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Death Stranding is an entire game build around trekking and navigation, so it would have to be good at it.
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Dec 13, 2020 06:08
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Rinkles posted:I find that with waypoints I can spend a hundred hours in a world and still barely know my way around it because I never have to learn to orient myself. It reduces navigation to a single dimension (following the line). The end result is just not engaging or even noticing much of the environment. Makes it interchangeable window dressing. This is true for me in some open world games like GTA and Saints Row, but I could draw a pretty good map of Skyrim or the Fallout 4 area from memory even though I never beat either of em. I think forcing me to walk everywhere and making the walk speed slow actually helped with that. Spent a lot of time looking around while following a marker instead of just focusing on when to make the next turn.
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Dec 13, 2020 06:13
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