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sticklefifer posted:Next week: Tilly has to study for the big test tomorrow, but can't stop taking My presumption is finding out the why of it will make dilithium work as normal again? Somehow. Why nobody else has done this in the last 120 years who knows. They've done a really poo poo job of telling us how the political situation has worked out since the burn honestly. I'd have expected like...a little debrief where they said "okay the burn happened, then these things happened with the races you know and love" FlamingLiberal posted:There was just the Queen's diamond ship. You also had the Borg Probe which was kind of like a flat pill shape. I feel like armada called it a borg hourglass
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Dec 13, 2020 03:34
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A.o.D. posted:But the Monolith is an AI. Just stick a "DO NOT OBEY" sticker on it like they did with Landru.
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Dec 13, 2020 03:35
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well why not posted:Tilly hugging the Emperor was just a breakpoint for me. She’s wiped planets out and they expect us to be ok with rehabilitation? Now she’s back she’s different and learned to love. I don’t care if Hitler loved dogs. The only appropriate end for her is a shameful death. Did they sign Michelle Yeoh to a 10 year deal for too much money? That would explain her constant presence and talk of a spin-off show. I believe she has been in good roles before but not here. During the newest ep tried to imagine Garak saying her dialogue, it’s a drastic improvement. I don’t know much about Cronenberg but I’d be fine with him as the new first officer. Strand Tilly & Michael on the acting planet for a year. Let Reno fly the ship.
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Dec 13, 2020 03:37
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Taear posted:My presumption is finding out the why of it will make dilithium work as normal again? Somehow. Nobody trying to work it out is actually pretty reasonable because everyone's reduced to relatively small fifedoms due to the scarcity of viable Dilithium. Just to get those three black boxes from derelict Starfleet ships they had to be gathered from a sizeable stretch of the galaxy, remember.
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Dec 13, 2020 03:58
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Taear posted:I feel like armada called it a borg hourglass Armada had the Sphere, Cube, Diamond, the Detector (which was tear-drop shaped), the Interceptor (which was the Borg Probe from Voyager), and then an H-shaped ship called the Assimilator.
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Dec 13, 2020 04:31
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Nobody trying to work it out is actually pretty reasonable because everyone's reduced to relatively small fifedoms due to the scarcity of viable Dilithium. Just to get those three black boxes from derelict Starfleet ships they had to be gathered from a sizeable stretch of the galaxy, remember. If they had the admiral show astonishment at the recovery of one blackbox and disbelief when told it was three of them actually that could have gone a long way. A lot of things could have been handled better in the details like that.
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Dec 13, 2020 04:57
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Did they sign Michelle Yeoh to a 10 year deal for too much money? That would explain her constant presence and talk of a spin-off show. I believe she has been in good roles before but not here. During the newest ep tried to imagine Garak saying her dialogue, it’s a drastic improvement. Why the gently caress would they sign her to a ten year deal?
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Dec 13, 2020 06:14
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Timby posted:This is making me think of how easy it was to killdoze everything in sight as the Borg in Star Trek: Armada. I never played Armada 2, didn't the Borg get into some wild shapeshifting poo poo in that? Ah, yes, the fusion cube and the tactical fusion cube. Build eight cubes, slam them together, and everything dies. A reasonable attempt to give the Borg the sort of unstoppable juggernaut we remember the cubes from early TNG being in a way that doesn't wholly destroy the game's balance.
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Dec 13, 2020 08:59
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Cojawfee posted:Why the gently caress would they sign her to a ten year deal? That sounds like some weird 4chan rumor mill bullshit. Either that or Michelle Yeoh has the best agent in the history of the entertainment industry. Marshal Radisic posted:Ah, yes, the fusion cube and the tactical fusion cube. Build eight cubes, slam them together, and everything dies. A reasonable attempt to give the Borg the sort of unstoppable juggernaut we remember the cubes from early TNG being in a way that doesn't wholly destroy the game's balance. That said, I do really love that shot from the game's intro of the one cube flying across a planet, and then all you see is its shadow merging with a massive cube shadow and then the giant shadow flying away. It's the prefect tease for the Fusion Cube. And while I'm at it, the intro to Armada I is still pretty rocking too. That whole the Borg cloned Locutus so you get to have Picard facing off against himself again storyline is just some beautiful bullshit and I love it. nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Dec 13, 2020 |
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Dec 13, 2020 09:02
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I never really liked the idea of Borg having ship classes, just the idea that there are cubes which are heavily redundant and they grow over time as they assimilate and eventually sometimes they split into eight smaller ones and if you want, say, a probe a cube just excises a small section of itself and lets it fly off is much cooler. Or the sphere is really just the borg needed a sphere-shaped ship for the time vortex so a sphere-shaped section of its interior became its own ship. Just that Borg ships are more like big technoorganic cancers rather than specific designs. Macro-scale grey goo. It's something you could pull off a lot better these days with modern CGI, too. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Dec 13, 2020 |
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Dec 13, 2020 09:31
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MikeJF posted:I never really liked the idea of Borg having ship classes, just the idea that there are cubes which are heavily redundant and they grow over time as they assimilate and eventually sometimes they split into eight smaller ones and if you want, say, a probe a cube just excises a small section of itself and lets it fly off is much cooler. Just that Borg ships are more like big technoorganic cancers rather than specific designs. Macro-scale grey goo. Plus the Borg always had that sense of being incredibly modular, right down to individual parts of individual drones. Everything seemed like it had the capacity to either detach or combine with other poo poo and just keep plugging along with near-zero interruption. The stuff on the Borg Cube in Picard didn't really hold up from a storytelling standpoint, but it was always visually enthralling with the things they did with the Cube like the reconfiguing hallways and the parts of the ship just literally held together with force fields.
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Dec 13, 2020 09:40
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MariusLecter posted:If they had the admiral show astonishment at the recovery of one blackbox and disbelief when told it was three of them actually that could have gone a long way. Seems like it would have been a lot easier to collect those boxes a hundred years ago though. They knew where all the ship graveyards were. Some of them were bound to be near federation planets, and the dilithium thing didn't affect FTL communication. Even if transporting the black boxes was impractical examining them and transmitting the data would be easy. It isn't amazing to find them, because nobody bothered to look. They didn't think the boxes would have anything they didn't already know.
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Dec 13, 2020 09:56
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Nobody trying to work it out is actually pretty reasonable because everyone's reduced to relatively small fifedoms due to the scarcity of viable Dilithium. Just to get those three black boxes from derelict Starfleet ships they had to be gathered from a sizeable stretch of the galaxy, remember. Michael got all 3 of them using normal warp and the resources of a courier in less than 2 years.
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Dec 13, 2020 12:50
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Michael got all 3 of them using normal warp and the resources of a courier in less than 2 years. Yeah the only way in which this doesn't play off into the Michael Messiah complex the show has is if the mystery is solved and everyone goes 'well that's interesting. Changes gently caress all though'. But the show won't do that.
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Dec 13, 2020 13:03
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Tilly being unable to let it drop that the burn “just happened” and using that drive to go on increasingly challenging missions would have been a great way to show her evolve from where she was into leadership material, but I guess that would have involved someone besides Michael being able to solve a problem.
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Dec 13, 2020 13:10
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Alchenar posted:Yeah the only way in which this doesn't play off into the Michael Messiah complex the show has is if the mystery is solved and everyone goes 'well that's interesting. Changes gently caress all though'. But the show won't do that. Running out of oil you say? Well then I, a mere visitor to youe advanced time, will really throw myself at this Deepwater Horizon thing. No need to thank me, being a hero is kinda my thing.
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Dec 13, 2020 15:30
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:Running out of oil you say? Well then I, a mere visitor to youe advanced time, will really throw myself at this Deepwater Horizon thing. No need to thank me, being a hero is kinda my thing. Funny how Discovery having to try to keep its ample quantities of dilithium a secret suddenly disappeared as plot point. You'd think the fleet would suddenly gain a boost from dividing it amongst the other ships to help better combat the Emerald Chain.
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Dec 13, 2020 15:40
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I would assume most of it got transferred to Federation HQ during the refit, so keeping it secret wouldn't be an issue, but yeah, a mention of the effects would've been nice.
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Dec 13, 2020 15:44
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MikeJF posted:I would assume most of it got transferred to Federation HQ during the refit, so keeping it secret wouldn't be an issue, but yeah, a mention of the effects would've been nice. I meant more that it's just been completely forgotten by the writers. "The Emerald Chain's got bugger-all Dilithium left" should be a bigger deal with Starfleet gaining a fat cache of the stuff. Before it might've help balance things, but with that reveal things should be suddenly titled in Starfleet's scale and fighting them might actually be possible. At least under more consistent and non-Michael-centric writing.
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Dec 13, 2020 15:49
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Why does the sphere data, a sentient collection of hundreds of thousands of years of history, have a unique perspective on something that has literally never happened before and is by definition outside of its ability to observe? E: I love the little moments where Phillipa calls out Michael's god complex. Or where the Admiral says 'wait you have a sentient alien ai running your ship and didn't think to mention all that?" At least someone on the writing team knows exactly how stupid it all is and is taking the paychecks while they can. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Dec 13, 2020 |
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Dec 13, 2020 16:59
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I might be in the minority, but I actually have come to really like Book as a character, and David Ajala is just charming as gently caress. I hope he doesn’t suffer from Season Guest Star syndrome, and sticks around for Season 4.
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Dec 13, 2020 18:30
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I like Book as a character but none of his plots have landed with me. I think the Burn and the Federation are the only interesting things this season and the writing seems to be more interested in dumb side plots than getting to the fun parts. This would be cool split into two series: A TNG style monster of the week where a starship just goes around trying to re-establish the Federation, and Discovery which tries to solve the crazy burn thing in prestige TV style.
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Dec 13, 2020 18:40
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Alchenar posted:Why does the sphere data, a sentient collection of hundreds of thousands of years of history, have a unique perspective on something that has literally never happened before and is by definition outside of its ability to observe? I was fine with this part. “You need something that can manipulate space and time, and here’s an entry that fits the bill”. It also makes sense that Carl appears to be interested in interacting with novel things that cross its path, so Carl likely interacted with the sphere at some point.
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Dec 13, 2020 18:48
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It's stupid that Mister Bowler Hat is an Edge Of Forever or whatever and we're supposed to work out what that is through weird newspaper cues because he's also a mischievous space rear end in a top hat that sends a character on a Learning Trip, and the last time someone like that appeared on Star Trek it was Q, so that was who I assumed it was.
Gravitas Shortfall fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Dec 13, 2020 |
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Dec 13, 2020 19:00
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That wasn't Wonko the Sane!?
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Dec 13, 2020 19:05
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:It's stupid that Mister Bowler Hat is an Edge Of Forever or whatever and we're supposed to work out what that is through weird newspaper cues because he's also a mischievous space rear end in a top hat that sends a character on a Learning Trip, and the last time someone like that appeared on Star Trek it was Q, so that was who I assumed it was. I don't think we're "supposed to" figure anything out. The vast majority of people watching DISCO wouldn't know who that was if he was wearing a nametag and Michael addressed him by title It's the first half of a two-parter anyway, we will likely get a bit more
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Dec 13, 2020 19:50
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:It's stupid that Mister Bowler Hat is an Edge Of Forever or whatever and we're supposed to work out what that is through weird newspaper cues because he's also a mischievous space rear end in a top hat that sends a character on a Learning Trip, and the last time someone like that appeared on Star Trek it was Q, so that was who I assumed it was. I know it's the edge of forever thing because people have said it but I don't actually recall him and probably never saw it if it is TOS. You're not supposed to know, that's basically a hi-def throwaway freeze-framer detail easter egg for canon perverts and the websites whose income relies on them writing articles like "This Newspaper in Discovery Just Revealed a Mysterious Stranger and Changed Star Trek Forever" between episodes. Q isn't a bad assumption and doesn't really hurt or change anything yet, the important bit is some powerful space entity with obtuse powers is doing a spirit journey for evil G.
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Dec 13, 2020 20:18
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Khanstant posted:the websites whose income relies on them writing articles like "This Newspaper in Discovery Just Revealed a Mysterious Stranger and Changed Star Trek Forever" between episodes. God those ads are insufferable. They’re all over my Facebook feed the day after an episode airs, and it’s always a three word piece of throwaway dialogue that “changes Trek forever”. Lmao
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Dec 13, 2020 20:34
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Changes it forever by making it worse!
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Dec 13, 2020 20:36
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All of the magic TOS stuff that TNG put in a box while keeping Q around as an internally consistent deus-ex-machina getting reversed.
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Dec 13, 2020 20:38
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What did the newspaper clipping say? I totally missed it.
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Dec 13, 2020 21:06
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DRINK MORE OVALTINE
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Dec 13, 2020 21:19
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Khanstant posted:DRINK MORE OVALTINE Burma Shave
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Dec 13, 2020 21:20
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Martytoof posted:What did the newspaper clipping say? I totally missed it. I'm the guardian and I'm here to say I like time travel in a major way Don't tell your boss about my existence They hate time travel, they're quite persistent
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Dec 13, 2020 21:21
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w 0 w
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Dec 13, 2020 21:31
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quote:Tilly hugging the Emperor was just a breakpoint for me. She’s wiped planets out and they expect us to be ok with rehabilitation? Now she’s back she’s different and learned to love. I don’t care if Hitler loved dogs. The only appropriate end for her is a shameful death. This isn't alien to the series. Khan was a brutal dictator and tried taking Kirk's ship, then got off with a slap on the wrist. If anything, we should be asking why the didn't use the treatment they used on Garth of Azar on her. He was another crazy maniac who had a lot of people killed but they fixed him up and sent him on his way at the end of his episode. Kodos was never redeemed but it was more satisfying to see him show a bit of guilt as opposed to not. I think what will wind up happening is Georgiou is in fact influenced by the good guys, and has to reform her bloodthirsty empire while saving face as a brutal totalitarian. The same fate we see evil Mr. Spock grapple with. It would be the best of both worlds - we can acknowledge she's a terrible person by our universe's standards, but give her credit for her futile attempt at atonement in an unforgiving environment. I don't know if the writers have the skill to pull it off well, but I think it would be a lot more interesting than Georgiou being completely irredeemable.
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Dec 13, 2020 21:40
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Georgiou is Vegeta.
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Dec 13, 2020 22:12
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Cojawfee posted:I'm the guardian and I'm here to say 👏👏👏
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Dec 13, 2020 22:26
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The Golden Gael posted:I really didn't want to be the one to point it out but it's really weird when Star Trek fans make this argument about the Emperor. Of course she was a horrible, horrible person. But isn't a point of Star Trek supposed to be that the evolved future people know better than to not try to rehabilitate the awful? If there's even a chance that you can get through to the worst of your enemies and find common ground to start bettering them with, don't you want to take it? I'm not saying we as the audience need to forgive and forget, but I think it would be worse if the show didn't even try. Star Wars convinced a lot of people that Vader was good again just because he saved Luke, and half the heroes on Dragon Ball Z started out as murderous creeps. The problem is that they don't even do the leg work for a proper redemption arc. I mean what is even the motivation for Georgiou's "redemption"? It all (once again) boils down to Burnham/the relationship to her, that's apparently all that sets apart evil Georgiou from good Gerogiou and we still get to see evil Gorgiou behaviour in constant action. So it's not that the enlightened future, Federation people should reject a genuine effort to redeem oneself but there hasn't been on so far. Georgiou is still extremely hostile to everyone and hasn't really started the process to deal with her own past. You might argue that a lot of her behaviour is just for show and that's probably what the writers are going for but there are still too few moments of genuine change and it's also just too limited in scope. Another important element for storytelling purposes is that Georgiou hasn't "suffered" the consequences of her own actions. A good redemption arc usually involves that the protagonist pays a heavy/painful price which serves the purpose of the audience not feeling like the character just got away with things so even if there wasn't a direct in-universe punishment, there was at least a cost to the character for his actions. It also helps to create conflict/a hurdle the protagonist has to overcome, how do you transition from space Hiterl to generic federation citizen (and what happens if you fail, do you go crazy like Gul Dukat in Ds9? He is btw a perfect example of why you need to be careful with such characters, even the Ds9 writers were aware that fans grew too fond of Dukat and compared to Georgiou he had more redeeming qualities in the early seasons and yet even evil Dukat had to suffer more than Georgiou ever did or probably ever will). That's why it would be okay if a character like Tilly might be pretty open about embracing a redemption but it is still weird if everyone around Georgiou just goes along with it and that Georgiou's presence/role should be a major source of conflict/a story driving force but instead she is treated like a wacky sidekick.
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Dec 13, 2020 22:34
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I guess in fairness we did have last season where all the characters still despised and distrusted her before she saved everyone's a bunch of times.
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Dec 13, 2020 22:38
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