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Lutha Mahtin posted:I think that as long as you aren't being a jerk to people on the street, you're doing just fine. It's important to remember that the weight of the world does not rest on your shoulders alone, and it is not up to you to solve society's problems today. Not an empty quote on this. It's good advice.
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Dec 13, 2020 02:06
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I used to mostly carry power bars to give out. When I was younger I used walk in NYC and then later Chicago a lot. Every street and Avenue south of the north end of the park on Manhattan and large chunks of the other boroughs. In Chicago think like Midway Plaisance Park to north of down town. Though I drove a lot more all over the south side extensively too. I dunno it’s complicated. Over the years I’ve done everything from the don’t look thing, to carrying cigars to share, to power bars, to going into a grocery store and buying chicken rice and broccoli. I still don’t know what to do. Cigars was interesting for the short window of my life that it was appropriate and relatively safe. Now I mostly give to local food pantries, usually assloads of cheese at the weekly Grange cheese drive, which is sadly on pause due the pandemic. Lutha and Spacewolf’s advice are both good.
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Dec 13, 2020 05:14
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Any Catholics knowledgeable of intra-Catholic debates or conflicts? https://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/robert-cardinal-sarahs-dilemma-and-our-own/ I was looking up Catholic audiobooks on Audible and found one by this Cardinal Sarah. Looking up reviews for it, I found the above link. Just now Wiki'ing him...oh boy. And this Viganó the link mentions doesn't seem much better.
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Dec 13, 2020 15:05
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There are a lot of people on Twitter who are finding this controversial: https://twitter.com/CarlosHappyNPO/status/1335613253108436992?s=19
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Dec 13, 2020 17:04
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NikkolasKing posted:Any Catholics knowledgeable of intra-Catholic debates or conflicts? I guess I'm a little familiar with them. What in particular are you wondering about?
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Dec 13, 2020 18:12
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Freudian posted:There are a lot of people on Twitter who are finding this controversial: It's the implicit "Christmas is about MY POLITICS", which is annoying even if you agree with it.
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Dec 13, 2020 18:18
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Freudian posted:There are a lot of people on Twitter who are finding this controversial: That last one... the Alexamenos graffito was posted earlier. I don’t think most people realize that it was deeply embarrassing to assert Jesus was God in a Roman context. It was a scandalous inversion of power .
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Dec 13, 2020 18:20
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Freudian posted:There are a lot of people on Twitter who are finding this controversial: From a non-Christian why do so many Christians that actively identify as such ignore the brunt of the Gospels? How is any of this controversial? This is embedded into the religion's origin story. Why do so many Christians instead focus so much on the fact they're saved for believing Jesus is God rather than learning from the story and the lessons it gives? When I say Christians in this context I'm speaking American Christians chiefly. Not anywhere else. edit: I truly feel a fundamental flaw in Christianity is the Pauline doctrine that states there's no way through Heaven except through Jesus. It helps create an environment where if you just believe Jesus is God then you're saved. No works required. I do not wish to criticize but the mindset of American Christians is beyond me. Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Dec 13, 2020 |
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Dec 13, 2020 18:23
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Captain von Trapp posted:It's the implicit "Christmas is about MY POLITICS", which is annoying even if you agree with it.
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Dec 13, 2020 18:46
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Jupiter Jazz posted:edit: I truly feel a fundamental flaw in Christianity is the Pauline doctrine that states there's no way through Heaven except through Jesus. It helps create an environment where if you just believe Jesus is God then you're saved. No works required. I do not wish to criticize but the mindset of American Christians is beyond me.
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Dec 13, 2020 18:54
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Jupiter Jazz posted:From a non-Christian why do so many Christians that actively identify as such ignore the brunt of the Gospels? How is any of this controversial? This is embedded into the religion's origin story. Not to get all politics here, but if you haven't noticed, most people don't like being told they're hypocrites or bad at their religion or not living up to its tenets. So, if you say, "Religion X is about these political views, and if you don't have them, you're not really a true believer", people who don't have those political views but still consider themselves believers in religion X are going to be pissed off. I'll also say that Christianity as a religion has been around for like 1930 years and spread throughout the world. It's never believed one thing, or had one core set of beliefs that passed down unchanged from its founding to now. Every society and period builds its own Christianities, which, while focused on a common idea of history and myth, develops according to the needs and desires of its worshipers.
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Dec 13, 2020 19:10
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Jupiter Jazz posted:edit: I truly feel a fundamental flaw in Christianity is the Pauline doctrine that states there's no way through Heaven except through Jesus. It helps create an environment where if you just believe Jesus is God then you're saved. No works required. I do not wish to criticize but the mindset of American Christians is beyond me. Barth’s commentary on Romans is a counter argument against throwing out Paul
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Dec 13, 2020 19:16
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Epicurius posted:Not to get all politics here, but if you haven't noticed, most people don't like being told they're hypocrites or bad at their religion or not living up to its tenets. So, if you say, "Religion X is about these political views, and if you don't have them, you're not really a true believer", people who don't have those political views but still consider themselves believers in religion X are going to be pissed off. But I'm trying understand the why. How could any of that tweet be controversial as per the Christian religion? But it is. Is it only politics? Bar Ran Dun posted:Barth’s commentary on Romans is a counter argument against throwing out Paul Well, one issue is that despite the claims it's about Jesus much of the doctrines are Pauline. https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/december/9.25.html Especially arguments through faith. One reason I'm not Christian is because I couldn't wrap my head around Paul. It felt like he created the religion more than Jesus! Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Dec 13, 2020 |
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Dec 13, 2020 19:17
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Jupiter Jazz posted:But I'm trying understand the why. How could any of that tweet be controversial as per the Christian religion? But it is. Is it only politics? I mean - I'm not really getting 'a needy child supported by the wealthy', I never got the idea the wise men were like, bankrolling Jesus with their gifts. But any time you stand up and go 'Christmas is about THIS THING' there are going to be folk who go 'NO IT ISN'T'. Even saying 'Jesus wanted us to help the poor so Christianity is about charity' will be inadequate for a lot of people and outrageous for some. 'The Christian religion' is huge and contains many kinds of thought, some of which seem downright heretical to others.
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Dec 13, 2020 19:19
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Jupiter Jazz posted:One reason I'm not Christian is because I couldn't wrap my head around Paul. It felt like he created the religion more than Jesus! There are some books on that. I rather like: The Message and the Kingdom.
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Dec 13, 2020 19:23
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Re: that tweet I don't see the problem in highlighting specific elements of the Christmas story to disrupt the rampant and oppressive religious power here in the US. It's even highlighted that Joseph DOESN'T believe her. It requires a visit from heaven to get him to change his mind. Dismissing it as politics sounds so frustratingly moderate to me. None of those statements would be political if US laws and (religious) leaders hadn't sanctioned the subjects. Thus making normal life political and affording the opportunity to dismiss naysayers as mischievous. Jesus was also accused of making things political to get him to shut up, but it was the fault of religious leaders for using politics to keep people out.
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Dec 13, 2020 19:34
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Epicurius posted:I guess I'm a little familiar with them. What in particular are you wondering about? What is the cause of their apparent opposition to Pope Francis and what exactly are they doing to oppose him? NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Dec 13, 2020 |
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Dec 13, 2020 19:38
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Jupiter Jazz posted:But I'm trying understand the why. How could any of that tweet be controversial as per the Christian religion? But it is. Is it only politics? Yes If you haven't been following American politics, you maybe haven't noticed that there are people who support limiting immigration and not accepting refugees, oppose the MeToo movement, and don't support expanded welfare/poverty assistance programs. And the tweet basically is about that.
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Dec 13, 2020 19:44
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Epicurius posted:Yes If you haven't been following American politics, you maybe haven't noticed that there are people who support limiting immigration and not accepting refugees, oppose the MeToo movement, and don't support expanded welfare/poverty assistance programs. And the tweet basically is about that. Oh, I've definitely followed american politics but I'm hoping it's about more than some perceived culture war. I recall even conservative Catholics like Bishop Barron riding to the aid of kids detained and separated from their parents.
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Dec 13, 2020 19:51
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NikkolasKing posted:What is the cause of their apparent opposition to Pope Francis and what exactly are they doing to oppose him? This opinion piece (which is pro-Francis) in America Magazine probably sums it up better than I can: https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2019/09/12/why-do-some-catholics-oppose-pope-francis I will say, more generally, there's usually conflict between "Curial" cardinals and "Pastoral" cardinals, and there tends to be tension between the Pope and the Curia when the Pope wasn't previously a member of the Curia. you saw it with John Paul I, also. A lot of it comes down to things like theological flexibility vs rigidity, the different skills it takes to run a diocese vs a curial department, and maybe a sort of implicit bias among members of the Curia that they're the real guardians of Catholicism and that basically nothing important happens outside of Rome. Jupiter Jazz posted:Oh, I've definitely followed american politics but I'm hoping it's about more than some perceived culture war. No, this is strictly culture war stuff. It's "You're not the real Christians because you support X!" vs "Oh yeah, well, you're not the real Christians because you're opposed to X!" Epicurius fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Dec 13, 2020 |
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Dec 13, 2020 19:56
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ThePopeOfFun posted:Jesus was also accused of making things political to get him to shut up, but it was the fault of religious leaders for using politics to keep people out. I'm not sure about that one. It's easy to point to passages where he's asked something that's facially neutral but actually political ("Whose coin is this?", i.e., "Where do you stand on ethnic separatist movements vs. European imperialism in the Middle East?"). Jesus always turned the answer away from politics and to the individual's relationship with God.
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Dec 13, 2020 20:37
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One of the most famous things done by Jesus was explicitly political. Riding in on an rear end is a biting satire of a triumph and it is super duper political.
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Dec 13, 2020 20:58
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Captain von Trapp posted:I'm not sure about that one. It's easy to point to passages where he's asked something that's facially neutral but actually political ("Whose coin is this?", i.e., "Where do you stand on ethnic separatist movements vs. European imperialism in the Middle East?"). Jesus always turned the answer away from politics and to the individual's relationship with God. That's my point. Other's viewed Jesus statements as political, because the Kingdom interrupts everything, regardless of Jesus refusing to participate in existing political systems. He was given a political title tacked onto his means of execution "King of the Jews." Thus, Jesus was dismissed and executed as a political upstart by the powers that were.
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Dec 13, 2020 20:59
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Also the gospels are written down because of the war and temple destruction setting aside Jesus for a moment at the very least the gospels are political. Also his mom name is Mary. That’s political and anti Herod/Roman too.
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Dec 13, 2020 21:06
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Not to change the subject but I was watching Prince of Egypt last night and the burning bush scene is one of my favourite cinematic representations of God ever. Using the same VA as Moses is a perfect idea, and it's a gorgeous scene.
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Dec 13, 2020 21:12
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Also his mom name is Mary. That’s political and anti Herod/Roman too. I think the rhetorical structure of statements like this one on Christmas draws ire from two sources. One of them is obviously, many people wear "Christian" as a team jersey but are not professed or dedicated followers of the religion. As we are all no doubt aware there are many people who would love for someone else to die in the violent defense of the precious treasure of Christian faith, but do not know anything about it, and may indeed not actually believe in it. If these people in the same general social position lived in Iran, I am sure they would be equally passionate about Shia Islam. I think there is another, however, which is a desire to not have the political issues of this moment - though they are vitally important - become the exclusive feature of religious profession. e: whoops hit enter. Anyway social media posts tend to provide a strong filter for "authoritatively stated, controversial statements" which are not necessarily going to persuade or educate anyone.
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Dec 13, 2020 23:52
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Nessus posted:Can you explain this one? First I'd heard of it. She’s named after a Hasmonean princess. I don’t remember which of my wife’s books I read that one in. If I find it I’ll post the exact section. While writing that I remembered the name Mariamne I. Eventually it’s a commonly used name in the region for girls in families that don’t like Rome / the Herodians.
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Dec 14, 2020 00:18
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It was a very, very common name in that time and place. I want to say it was a double-digit percentage of the population, but I don't have a source handy. Even in the New Testament itself there's a half-dozenish different women with that name.
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Dec 14, 2020 00:26
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Yes and she’s the reason. She was Herod’s second wife, was well liked by the population, and was executed. And then name got popular.
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Dec 14, 2020 00:29
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Bar Ran Dun posted:One of the most famous things done by Jesus was explicitly political. Actually, it was a recreation of Solomon's ride into Jerusalem on David's donkey, when he was acclaimed king (see 1 Kings 1). It was an explicitly and overtly political act, but not a satire of a Roman triumph. He was directly challenging Roman authority and appealing to the people as the new king of Israel. He was deliberately poking the tiger with a stick.
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Dec 14, 2020 02:16
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Eh the historical Jesus scholars say it is referencing a bunch of things depending on the particular scholar. Crossan says it’s like Alexander’s entry into a conquered city. I’m probably taking the Roman triumph thing from Message and the Kingdom, but that’s only from memory that I’m thinking I got if from there. I’m not sure where our copy of that is right now. I like to go with that Roman triumph interpretation because the Jewish wars are the larger context the gospels are written down in. On the other hand I see no reason it might not be all of these things! Anyway, I think we agree it was explicitly political and upsetting to the Romans. It’s also probably why he was crucified.
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Dec 14, 2020 03:18
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The other reason I’m inclined towards the Roman triumph explanation is the birth narrative in Luke. I read an compelling argument that the Luke nativity narrative is patterned on Roman birth narratives for the Julio-Claudian emperors. The inversion of Roman narratives is possibly a thing in the gospels.
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Dec 14, 2020 03:27
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The Gospel of John has really captured my interest lately and reading various papers on it and one of them was on a part of the Gospel that really intrigued me, Jesus at the well with the woman https://digitalcommons.luthersem.edu/faculty_articles/24/ quote:Jesus’ encounter with the Samaritan woman in John 4 draws on themes of Roman imperialism and Samaria’s colonial history. The Samaritan townspeople call Jesus “the Savior of the world” (4:42), a title used for Roman emperors from Julius Caesar to Hadrian. They go out to meet Jesus and welcome him to their town, a practice used to welcome emperors and other dignitaries. Using a title of empire-wide significance emphasizes that Jesus now transcends older national divisions. The Samaritan woman speaks as an individual and representative of her people. Her personal history with five husbands parallels her national history of colonization by five nations and their introduction of foreign worship. Her current situation with a sixth figure might also point to the continuation of her people’s colonial experience with Roman domination and the imperial cult at Sebaste. By calling Jesus “Savior of the World” the Samaritan townspeople show that Jesus fulfills and surpasses their national hopes. They move beyond a form of worship tainted by charges of idolatry to true worship of God, and beyond a national identity defined by colonial powers to become true people of God. Of course there seems to be many, many interpretations of this scene but this was one of the first I found and it is interesting, not at all what I thought when I read it it in The Bible. Just a bit more about how political and anti-Roman Bible stories are.
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Dec 14, 2020 04:30
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Josef bugman posted:I thought the "Volkish" types generally signed up to the Nazi ideology pretty freaking fast, especially when the old aristocracy started getting co-opted. One of the same dangers you can see in the post 9/11 United States. You can get a lot of otherwise good people to buy in to morally abhorrent actions if you can appeal to their loyalty to the groups they define themselves by. Patriotism is an infinitely exploitable thing.
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Dec 14, 2020 07:32
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Bar Ran Dun posted:There are some books on that. I rather like: The Message and the Kingdom. Added to my reading list. Here's a good video on Muslim arguments against Paul, if only to help educate on the topic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvPYCx38fTM Bar Ran Dun posted:One of the most famous things done by Jesus was explicitly political. Right. I don't understand the argument that Christianity has no politics tied up in it even in the Gospels. Knowing the history of the region at the time reveals Christianity as a highly political anti-Roman religion. Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Dec 14, 2020 |
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Dec 14, 2020 17:19
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uh oh https://www.reuters.com/article/us-..._source=twitter quote:The blood of San Gennaro, the patron of Naples, failed to liquefy despite two rounds of praying by the faithful, which some in the southern Italian city see as an omen of bad things to come.
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Dec 17, 2020 00:18
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'On Wednesday the city’s cardinal, Crescenzio Sepe, told the faithful not to be overly dismayed. “If something needs to melt, it is the hearts of people,” he said.' That's sweet.
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Dec 17, 2020 00:25
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Still one of the best bits of writing on Christmas I’ve read. https://www.room207press.com/2018/01/written-in-water-23-following-yonder.html?m=1
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Dec 18, 2020 20:03
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Nckdictator posted:Still one of the best bits of writing on Christmas I’ve read. I've always been partial to this one: https://www.cracked.com/blog/the-true-meaning-christmas-that-everyone-forgets/
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Dec 19, 2020 04:40
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My sister has recovered from Covid! It was unpleasant, but never life threatening, thanks be to God. And my parents were not exposed. Her children are fine, too.
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Dec 19, 2020 04:43
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