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I’m reminded of reading 1491, where the author posits that the dawnlanders in future New England got about 1000 kcal more per day than the english colonizers, and all the english back this up by writing “holy crap these people are all so tall and sexy” E: what a snipe
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Dec 11, 2020 18:14
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“The Danes made themselves too acceptable to English women by their elegant manners and their care of their person. “They combed their hair daily, according to the custom of their country, and took a bath every Saturday, and even changed their clothes frequently, and improved the beauty of their bodies with many such trifles, by which means they undermined the chastity of wives.”
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Dec 11, 2020 18:25
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I’m reminded of reading 1491, where the author posits that the dawnlanders in future New England got about 1000 kcal more per day than the english colonizers, and all the english back this up by writing “holy crap these people are all so tall and sexy” whats funny is that the english showed up relatively late in north america and so by the time they arrived the local people had started building small boats in the basque/french style and so they'd roll up to the english ships shouting in trade pidgin "stay the gently caress away unless you have knives for sale". one explorer offered to take a local chief back to england to show him the wonders of europe and the chief was like "nah i went to paris a couple years ago, i'm good" there is a narrative that like the people of what would become new england were just amazed by the strangers in the big ships. no no, they had decades of experience with europeans at this point
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Dec 11, 2020 19:20
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The weirdest one is that not many people know what the deal was with Squanto. They know the story of how Squanto served as a guide and translator, helping make peace with the local natives and showing the pilgrims how to farm because they didn't learn much about new world agriculture while they were busy in religious zealot school, but they don't know that the reason why Squanto could do all of that was because he had been taken to Europe as a slave 6 years earlier where he learned english and by the time he made his way back his tribe had been wiped out by disease. When he first met the pilgrims he asked for some beer. Like there's a whole national holiday commemorating the event, but people can't bring themselves to get further into it beyond the elementary school story and awkwardly dancing around the later genocides and mass-removals.
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Dec 11, 2020 20:01
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SlothfulCobra posted:The weirdest one is that not many people know what the deal was with Squanto. They know the story of how Squanto served as a guide and translator, helping make peace with the local natives and showing the pilgrims how to farm because they didn't learn much about new world agriculture while they were busy in religious zealot school, but they don't know that the reason why Squanto could do all of that was because he had been taken to Europe as a slave 6 years earlier where he learned english and by the time he made his way back his tribe had been wiped out by disease. When he first met the pilgrims he asked for some beer. Native Intelligence by Charles C. Mann posted:More than likely Tisquantum was not the name he was given at birth. In that part of the Northeast, tisquantum referred to rage, especially the rage of manitou, the world-suffusing spiritual power at the heart of coastal Indians’ religious beliefs. When Tisquantum approached the Pilgrims and identified himself by that sobriquet, it was as if he had stuck out his hand and said, Hello, I’m the Wrath of God.
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Dec 11, 2020 20:59
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luxury handset posted:whats funny is that the english showed up relatively late in north america and so by the time they arrived the local people had started building small boats in the basque/french style and so they'd roll up to the english ships shouting in trade pidgin "stay the gently caress away unless you have knives for sale". one explorer offered to take a local chief back to england to show him the wonders of europe and the chief was like "nah i went to paris a couple years ago, i'm good" Don't you know that nothing outside of America counts???????
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Dec 11, 2020 21:47
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HookShot posted:Don't you know that nothing outside of America counts??????? Give it a rest, England has been dunked on enough. It’s not their fault they don’t have a continent.
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Dec 11, 2020 21:49
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galagazombie posted:It angers me that there were still living Mammoths well into the Bronze Age that almost made it. Sure it was a small population on some godforsaken island, but it would still have been cool to see one today in a zoo. Mammoths were hunted to extinction sure, but they also lost basically all their natural habitat, the steppe tundra, when the ice age ended, so in the great scheme they're not even among the biggest prehistoric ecological crimes
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Dec 11, 2020 22:22
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SlothfulCobra posted:The weirdest one is that not many people know what the deal was with Squanto. They know the story of how Squanto served as a guide and translator, helping make peace with the local natives and showing the pilgrims how to farm because they didn't learn much about new world agriculture while they were busy in religious zealot school, but they don't know that the reason why Squanto could do all of that was because he had been taken to Europe as a slave 6 years earlier where he learned english and by the time he made his way back his tribe had been wiped out by disease. When he first met the pilgrims he asked for some beer. In Virginia, the same happened with Don Luis/Paquiquino. When the Spanish rolled into the Chesapeake to see if colonizing it was worthwhile, they kidnapped a kid who may have been the son of a local chief. They took him to Spain, where he received an education and met King Philip II before heading to Mexico to and becoming Catholic. When the Jesuits decided to set up a mission in the hell swamps of coastal Virginia, he tagged along as their translator, probably sensing his chance to get the hell out of Dodge. As soon as they landed, he told them he was going to go find his family and get them a warm welcome. He returned five months later with that warm welcome in the form of a warband who killed all the colonists except one kid and took all their stuff.  Curiously, he was probably from the Paspahegh or Kiskiack, two of the tribes who lived close to the eventual site of Jamestown. When the English colonists did arrive and try to set up shop less than forty years later, the local high chieftain Powhatan would have been quite familiar with the Europeans and their capabilities thanks in part to Don Luis's accounts. He might be the same person as Powhatan's brother, the war-chief Opechancanough, who was recorded as being extremely not here for this whole "letting the English settle in our neighborhood" thing and tried multiple times to wipe out the colony. (Evidence for this is his name, which supposedly means "He Whose Soul is White," the fact that he was recorded as 90 years old when he finally was killed in 1646, and the fact that he proved to have had objectively the most correct opinion of the colonists.) Even if not, Opechancanough's opinion was likely based on knowledge of the hosed up poo poo Europeans could and would do, rather than on mere xenophobia.
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Dec 11, 2020 22:30
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Give it a rest, England has been dunked on enough. It’s not their fault they don’t have a continent. Maybe they'll try to argue that they already are. They're desperate right not to find a way to make Brexit stick. They'll be the new Australia.
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Dec 12, 2020 00:20
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Ras Het posted:Mammoths were hunted to extinction sure, but they also lost basically all their natural habitat, the steppe tundra, when the ice age ended, so in the great scheme they're not even among the biggest prehistoric ecological crimes But that Wrangel Island population that lived in the bronze age was 100% killed by Humans. I just want to see Mammoths drat it. All they had to do was not row their boat out to that island but noooooo. And a Triceratops.
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Dec 12, 2020 04:54
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Ras Het posted:Mammoths were hunted to extinction sure, but they also lost basically all their natural habitat, the steppe tundra, when the ice age ended, so in the great scheme they're not even among the biggest prehistoric ecological crimes well there is a theory that rather than it being the end of the ice age that brought about the disappearance of the steppe tundra, it was the extinction of the mammoths themselves. This is because they played a role similar to that of elephants in the savanna. They'd plow down trees and open up the taiga canopy, then compact fluffy snows into a thin dense crust of ice with little insulative properties, allowing winter chills to penetrate and freeze the ground deep.
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Dec 12, 2020 06:37
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Squalid posted:well there is a theory that rather than it being the end of the ice age that brought about the disappearance of the steppe tundra, it was the extinction of the mammoths themselves. This is because they played a role similar to that of elephants in the savanna. They'd plow down trees and open up the taiga canopy, then compact fluffy snows into a thin dense crust of ice with little insulative properties, allowing winter chills to penetrate and freeze the ground deep. Oh yeah true, Smil argued somewhere that prehistoric humans significantly increased the earth's total carbon mass by destroying megafauna and thus promoting forest growth
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Dec 12, 2020 09:27
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 I saw "Congo" and my finger slipped  Also tiny island nations are REALLY fiddly.
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Dec 12, 2020 19:09
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 source
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Dec 12, 2020 20:09
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Kennel posted:There's more: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Atlas_of_world_history Ur III will always be my fav ignore his bad accent!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUcTsFe1PVs
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Dec 12, 2020 20:25
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I've seen Animal Soccer World and I thought the dubbing sounded like it was done by someone with a Dutch accent
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Dec 12, 2020 20:36
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 Thank you, Paradox games. Would have been a touch better if I hadn't gone for Bulgaria and clicked just a pixel too high on Romania.
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Dec 12, 2020 21:32
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Dec 13, 2020 03:22
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My mind is somewhat blown by 'new' being now in Persian. Indo-europeans, man.
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Dec 13, 2020 06:16
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For some reason I never realized that Finno-Ugric is (generally considered) not related to Indo-European.
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Dec 13, 2020 06:37
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Redmark posted:For some reason I never realized that Finno-Ugric is (generally considered) not related to Indo-European. I think I read it might in fact be distantly related to Hungarian. E: Well, yes. Wikipedia says: "The three most-spoken Uralic languages, Hungarian, Finnish, and Estonian, are all included in Finno-Ugric, although linguistic roots common to both branches of the traditional Finno-Ugric language tree (Finno-Permic and Ugric) are distant."
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Dec 13, 2020 08:35
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Redmark posted:For some reason I never realized that Finno-Ugric is (generally considered) not related to Indo-European. Also Basque.
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Dec 13, 2020 10:23
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Yeah, but Basque is the usual given example of language isolates I always figured Finno-Ugric was just a different branch of PIE than the Romance languages, but evidently it has a separate origin. (Though these things never seem to be fully in consensus, I guess due to how difficult comparative linguistics gets without attestation)
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Dec 13, 2020 11:06
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I’m baffled that someone could know what a “finland” is but not know it isn’t indo-european. Even hindi and urdu have stuff like the t/v pronouns and broadly similar grammar to what I’m typing right now, whereas finnish would render this one long sentence as roughly four very complicated words with more vowels than one could imagine.
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Dec 13, 2020 17:24
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I envy those lucky bastards who don't know what Finland is.
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Dec 13, 2020 17:26
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Finland is gonna be the first country I visit after Corona and after I get my passport fixed well either that or Norway, it's hard to make a decision which friend to visit first.
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Dec 13, 2020 17:33
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Rumda posted:Finland is gonna be the first country I visit after Corona and after I get my passport fixed well either that or Norway, it's hard to make a decision which friend to visit first. It all depends if you want to eat rotten fish or bland boiled meat
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Dec 13, 2020 18:32
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I’m baffled that someone could know what a “finland” is but not know it isn’t indo-european. Even hindi and urdu have stuff like the t/v pronouns and broadly similar grammar to what I’m typing right now, whereas finnish would render this one long sentence as roughly four very complicated words with more vowels than one could imagine.
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Dec 13, 2020 19:07
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Finns sound like ducks, and none of you assholes are acknowledging this.
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Dec 13, 2020 20:07
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Groda posted:Finns sound like ducks, and none of you assholes are acknowledging this. Gimme bread tööt tööt.
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Dec 13, 2020 20:17
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I’m baffled that someone could know what a “finland” is but not know it isn’t indo-european. Even hindi and urdu have stuff like the t/v pronouns and broadly similar grammar to what I’m typing right now, whereas finnish would render this one long sentence as roughly four very complicated words with more vowels than one could imagine. Pronouns are actually the prime reason why people suspect a IE-Uralic relationship, they start with m- in the first person and t/s- in the second person in finnish too
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Dec 13, 2020 20:32
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Ras Het posted:Pronouns are actually the prime reason why people suspect a IE-Uralic relationship, they start with m- in the first person and t/s- in the second person in finnish too Are there any examples to the contrary?
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Dec 13, 2020 20:35
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3D Megadoodoo posted:Are there any examples to the contrary? I can't think of a first person pronoun not starting with m. The main reason written Finnish has so many vowels is that they use a non-idiotic system for denoting long vowels. A language like Danish uses a double consonant after the vowel to mark the vowel as short, and a single consonant to mark it as long. Unless there's something else going on, you just have to know and/or guess. Finnish just goes "long sound, write it twice". Simple, elegant and understandable, but looks weird. This has nothing to do with the the relation between the languages themselves, just the writing system. See also Farsi only writing out long vowels because they use the Arabic alphabet. Other good solutions to long sound include diacritics like (old) Icelandic (a/á) (and for consonants, Arabic) or just plain different letters like Arabic vowels (this is not super common, Arabic never actually writes the short vowels). There is some evidence that Finno-Ugric and Indo-European are related, in the sense of sharing a common ancestor. But it's pretty much in the same way that you and I both descent from Charlemagne, it has no practical implications.
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Dec 13, 2020 20:48
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Darkest Auer posted:It all depends if you want to eat rotten fish or bland boiled meat Stop making threats of a good time.
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Dec 13, 2020 21:07
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Groda posted:Finns sound like ducks, and none of you assholes are acknowledging this. Is this why they love Donald Duck so much? Representation?
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Dec 13, 2020 21:14
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BonHair posted:I can't think of a first person pronoun not starting with m. did humans evolve before or after language? like were prehumans smart enough for it? cause if not it would make sense to me language might have evolved distinctly in different populations, otherwise we're all talking whatever those hominids who we evolved from talked
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Dec 13, 2020 21:35
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mandatory lesbian posted:did humans evolve before or after language? like were prehumans smart enough for it? cause if not it would make sense to me language might have evolved distinctly in different populations, otherwise we're all talking whatever those hominids who we evolved from talked
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Dec 13, 2020 21:45
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It's impossible to know really. But we do get something related in deaf communities, where the spoken language isn't much of an influence. Generally speaking parents of deaf children in communities without an established sign language will make some poo poo up to communicate with their child. And since vocal grammar and phonetics translate poorly to gestures, the results are essentially novel, meaning we have a bunch of actual unrelated languages in the world. They do have similarities though, and borrowing signs occurs. Also, with languages that are related don't follow the relations of the spoken languages around them. English Sign Language has essentially no relation to American Sign Language from what I remember.
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Dec 13, 2020 21:45
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I mean, other animals appear to have a language of sorts, so presumably earlier human species did too. Doesn't matter much though, since we killed them all. It depends on where you draw the line for what constitutes a language. I am not aware of any animal that can produce a novel meaning not directly related to a current situation. Like, I can say "your dad is a car", which you hopefully haven't heard before, and still be understood. Animals generally just have a set of "words" tied to one meaning each, relating to something in the world like "danger" or "food" or "cont gently caress me".
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Dec 13, 2020 21:50
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