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Liberal Party voters loving love means testing. "I think everyone who needs should get it but by golly if I hear about a welfare queen I'm voting Conservative." Edit: source: my friend's retired cop mom. Papa Was A Video Toaster has issued a correction as of 18:26 on Dec 13, 2020 |
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Dec 13, 2020 18:23
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Getting Cerb was likely they family's first real wage increase in years. god forbid Canadians get some purchasing power once in a while. I called my MP about this. I don't imagine it will make a difference but who can say.
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Dec 13, 2020 19:00
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The means testing is coming from inside the thread!
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Dec 13, 2020 19:27
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The idea of giving everyone CERB and then taxing it back from those who didn't need it afterwards is way too efficient and makes way too much sense to ever be adopted as policy
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Dec 13, 2020 19:30
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is there a meaningful difference between taxing it back and requiring it be repaid if you didn't qualify? i feel like there might be, but it seems like mostly a matter of tone. e: with the exception of people who didn't qualify because they had no income, as long as they continue to have no income they're not going to be paying taxes, so yeah definitely different for them. infernal machines has issued a correction as of 19:36 on Dec 13, 2020 |
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Dec 13, 2020 19:31
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taxing it back doesn't require a dedicated enforcement structure, for one thing. and the tone isn't unimportant.
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Dec 13, 2020 19:34
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vyelkin posted:The idea of giving everyone CERB and then taxing it back from those who didn't need it afterwards is way too efficient and makes way too much sense to ever be adopted as policy That's pretty much what's happening here with this lady's cake business.
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Dec 13, 2020 19:35
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infernal machines posted:is there a meaningful difference between taxing it back and requiring it be repaid if you didn't qualify? he said "need" not "qualify". CERB for everyone that needs it isn't CERB, its UBI
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Dec 13, 2020 19:35
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Rutibex posted:he said "need" not "qualify". CERB for everyone that needs it isn't CERB, its UBI well, yes, it would be. CERB on the other hand is very much means tested
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Dec 13, 2020 19:36
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infernal machines posted:is there a meaningful difference between taxing it back and requiring it be repaid if you didn't qualify? yes because if everyone qualifies by default, then what matters most is overall annual income, not arbitrary edge cases of who does or doesn't qualify it also means it isn't a binary switch of do you qualify yes/no, you could get CERB and repay half of it, or a quarter of it, or three fifths of it, or whatever, depending on your overall income in the year, it wouldn't be an all-or-nothing thing where some people who don't need it qualify and get it no strings attached, and some people who need it don't qualify and so get $0 because they fall through some dumb loophole or in a category of people who don't count
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Dec 13, 2020 19:38
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infernal machines posted:well, yes, it would be. aka you have to have enough means the idea that there was a minimum requirement to get support during the pandemic is still relentlessly hosed just die, poors/disabled people
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Dec 13, 2020 19:40
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Arivia posted:the idea that there was a minimum requirement to get support during the pandemic is still relentlessly hosed it absolutely is, and i have no idea why the government created an EI replacement that was essentially just EI with looser eligibility requirements.
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Dec 13, 2020 19:42
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because L/liberals are opposed to helping people
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Dec 13, 2020 19:43
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Reality Protester posted:Getting Cerb was likely they family's first real wage increase in years. god forbid Canadians get some purchasing power once in a while. No, it likely wasn't. If you read the article, and more specifically what the article doesn't say, they leave out what this particular family's household income is, probably because it's way higher than the median considering one of them can run a hobby business instead of having to get a soul crushing minimum wage job or three to barely get by like people who actually needed CERB. I agree with everyone that means testing sucks, but that's the system we already got and a bunch of rich idiots gamed it with their hobby businesses. The CRA cracking down on them doesn't take the money away from people who actually needed it, or it least it didn't in this case.
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Dec 13, 2020 19:51
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could not give less of a poo poo about a hobby cake business getting 18.5k when almost every company that got the CEWS is dumping employees left and right
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Dec 13, 2020 19:55
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infernal machines posted:it absolutely is, and i have no idea why the government created an EI replacement that was essentially just EI with looser eligibility requirements. they see the writing on the wall, UBI is necessary. they don't want to just give it to us though, they want to save it so they can promise it in the next election and take maximum credit
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Dec 13, 2020 19:55
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Rutibex posted:they see the writing on the wall, UBI is necessary. they don't want to just give it to us though, they want to save it so they can promise it in the next election and take maximum credit This pandemic has brought to the forefront the fact that we're going to need to make a ton of systemic changes to our society in order to survive the future. This means the wealthy will need to give up some of their assets and they're delaying what they know is inevitable. Most of them are holding out for some miracle that means they personally won't be taking that haircut. But one thing's for certain, it's coming, one way or another.
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Dec 13, 2020 21:20
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Rutibex posted:they see the writing on the wall, UBI is necessary. they don't want to just give it to us though, they want to save it so they can promise it in the next election and take maximum credit You missed the part where they don't actually do it after the election is over.
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Dec 13, 2020 21:28
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mediaphage posted:(would a male freelance developer in the same case who said he was setting out to build his own agency have been accused of running a vanity business if his wife had a job? i legit don’t think so) prefacing this by saying I think everyone should have gotten CERB and i'm opposed to means testing, but yes someone running a software development agency that only cleared $5k in income is the exact same as someone running a cake business that only cleared $5k. going after this woman for $18.5k when a bunch of giant corporations have bilked the government out of millions of dollars is typical liberal bullshit, but it's still a vanity business.
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Dec 13, 2020 22:28
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https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1338219546684121089 Oh poo poo they're onto us
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Dec 14, 2020 00:07
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Downs nobody here sincerely see a problem with offering a bunch of destitute people thousands of dollars with no checks on if they qualify then yanking it back and making them repay it a year later with money they do not have or by taking away benefits they rely on for basic needs It's a hosed up situation
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Dec 14, 2020 00:28
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just give everyone two grand a month and raise the uppermost tax bracket by 20% to cover it a $24k/year raise would move me from "renting until I die" to "buying a townhouse" fuckin overnight
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Dec 14, 2020 00:31
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Kazinsal posted:just give everyone two grand a month and raise the uppermost tax bracket by 20% to cover it Yeah it would also raise your rent by about 2k a month and the price of a townhouse by the present value of 2k a month in perpetuity.
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Dec 14, 2020 01:48
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housing in general is Too Expensive and ubi is not the way to solve it. maximum allowable rent increases help but it's hardly enough.
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Dec 14, 2020 01:59
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No the only way to get affordable housing is for the market to catastrophically crash, ideally by inflating interest rates. We could also ban private loans and gifts for downpayments, ban cosigning, create limits on leverage, tax all principal properties, tax 100% of capital gains, and also while i'm at it i'd really like a pony
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Dec 14, 2020 02:03
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jettisonedstuff posted:Yeah it would also raise your rent by about 2k a month and the price of a townhouse by the present value of 2k a month in perpetuity. Maybe in Vancouver. Probably not in Medicine Hat.
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Dec 14, 2020 02:04
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I lust for a housing market crash. The housing market in nova scotia is beyond hosed because the only people who own houses are boomers who hoard them like loving real estate dragons because "it's an investment!!!!!!" It's not an investment if nobody can afford your loving 400k duplex you loving lunatics oh my god
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Dec 14, 2020 02:13
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RBC posted:No the only way to get affordable housing is for the market to catastrophically crash, ideally by inflating interest rates. We could also ban private loans and gifts for downpayments, ban cosigning, create limits on leverage, tax all principal properties, tax 100% of capital gains, and also while i'm at it i'd really like a pony i hope the government opens up some crown land for homesteaders. we have lots of land, just let me build my own house
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Dec 14, 2020 03:12
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prom candy posted:prefacing this by saying I think everyone should have gotten CERB and i'm opposed to means testing, but yes someone running a software development agency that only cleared $5k in income is the exact same as someone running a cake business that only cleared $5k. going after this woman for $18.5k when a bunch of giant corporations have bilked the government out of millions of dollars is typical liberal bullshit, but it's still a vanity business. at what point is a vanity business a real business? what if they make 15k the next year by building on the prior year's success? do you think you just instantly become successful and rich when you start out? who the gently caress cares, calling it a vanity business was 100% because it was a woman baking cakes
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Dec 14, 2020 03:20
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Rutibex posted:i hope the government opens up some crown land for homesteaders. we have lots of land, just let me build my own house 1) The current political, socioeconomic situation, and climate change are all culminating in housing in the middle of loving nowhere on the edge of crown land being more unfeasible than it already is. 2) If this happens anyway and you do that you better not be one of those people that moves into the sticks and then starts trying to bully people using adjacent land that's still designated crown land for stuff you don't approve of. Crown land is where people go to hunt fish trap camp bike and (unfortunately) rip around on ATVs and stuff and we're sick of people moving in next door and then trying to get all that shut down. Well except maybe the idiots that want to just run circles on quads for no reason other than to make noise and burn gas, they suck and scare all the game away.
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Dec 14, 2020 03:20
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Rutibex posted:i hope the government opens up some crown land for homesteaders. we have lots of land, just let me build my own house Turning wilderness into low-density housing isn't the best idea.
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Dec 14, 2020 03:21
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EvilJoven posted:1) The current political, socioeconomic situation, and climate change are all culminating in housing in the middle of loving nowhere on the edge of crown land being more unfeasible than it already is. sounds like you got a pretty nice deal and you don't want anyone else having a piece 
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Dec 14, 2020 03:22
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I don't live there, I just go out for the day or maybe go on a weekend and pitch a tent and spend my weekend hunting and riding and pooping in a hole like God intended.
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Dec 14, 2020 03:26
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they let you post on crown land?
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Dec 14, 2020 03:27
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sorry Rutibex, we split up all the land before you were born and all these rich guys have it. this is the system they came up with so its fair. yeah like 80% of it is just wilderness thats not being used by anyone, but you can't have any of that. its a nature preserve, the rich guys say so the like to go fishing. if you want some land just participate in this system the rich guys set up. its totally fair if you work hard enough you can have a one of the pieces they claimed long ago. not the empty land though, that not for anyone!
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Dec 14, 2020 03:31
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What if everything was crown land, except instead of "crown" it would be "hat" or something, since in this hypothetical scenario we would also be a republic
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Dec 14, 2020 03:33
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i don't care what the land is called i just don't want to pay rent any more
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Dec 14, 2020 03:38
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Which place would have clean water first, uninhabitable crown land settled in the modern day or First Nation communities?
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Dec 14, 2020 03:58
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I just drink my own piss
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Dec 14, 2020 04:13
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linoleum floors posted:I just drink my own piss get out of here bear grylls
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Dec 14, 2020 04:14
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