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Klyith posted:
There was a lot of cav that used missile weapons, for instance the Normans used javelins to yeet at them at Saxons at Hastings. And for the most part, peasant levies of untrained masses is a myth: the English longbowmen were definitively professionals. Medieval armies were for the most part a lot more professional than assumed.
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Dec 13, 2020 09:50
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Epicurius posted:Javelins were used in medieval Europe, though. The Anglo-Saxons used them, and so did the Norse. The Spanish Almogavars had javelins, and so did Spanish light cavalry. Did the Norse use throwing javelins in war? I thought it was all thrusting spears, it's a bit of iron you can give to a farmer, he can cut his own stick. e: Not saying you can't throw a thrusting spear ofc. Ola fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Dec 13, 2020 |
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Dec 13, 2020 09:59
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FreudianSlippers posted:Imagine giving one of those gimmicky hot sauces that's 5 million on the Scoville scale to a medieval peasant. https://twitter.com/MatthewPCrowley/status/621078253827002368
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Dec 13, 2020 11:07
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Surely this question has been asked before in various SA history threads but like what historical misconceptions bother you the most?
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Dec 13, 2020 11:18
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Kanine posted:Surely this question has been asked before in various SA history threads but like That our ancestors drank beer instead of water because the alcohol made it safer. Our ancestors drank beer because they liked to drink.
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Dec 13, 2020 11:22
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Kanine posted:Surely this question has been asked before in various SA history threads but like the american civil war was not fought over slavery
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Dec 13, 2020 11:22
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWnlQMQ-ACfhpD68yWRsnJw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNlgb79A4mM what's the general consensus on the tod's workshop youtube channel? guy seems really into building old weapons like crossbows/etc. and while its entertaining a lot of these historical youtube channels seem to end up being run by hacks. Kanine fucked around with this message at 11:42 on Dec 13, 2020 |
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Dec 13, 2020 11:34
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Ola posted:Did the Norse use throwing javelins in war? Before battle it was traditional to throw a spear over the enemy to dedicate the battle to Odin who threw a spear over the vanir when they and the ćsir fought.
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Dec 13, 2020 12:12
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Ithle01 posted:One of the points in Goldstone's Revolution and Rebellion in the Early Modern World is that insufficient space in the elite sphere is #2 of the eight causes that lead to state breakdown. Goldstone gives the example of in France some of the most fervent supporters of the revolution were from the lower ranks of the clergy and nobility who were shut out of advancement to higher positions despite having educations. I'm pretty sure this also happened in the Meji Revolution too. I have no idea how this relates to ancient societies beyond the fact that there always tends to be an elite sphere and they jockey for power. Didn't something like this happen in Roman Britain when the island's elites decided that paying taxes overseas wasn't worth their time and it's better to be a warlord instead of a dux in a poo poo hole diocese? This was also an important reason behind the American revolutions.
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Dec 13, 2020 12:21
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Gaius Marius posted:I believe it's been brought up here before. But why did the javelin fall out of favor in europe and the rest of the former Roman empire. Did advances in now technology make it uneconomical, or the lack of a manufacturing base? Javelins didn't fall out of favor. Klyith posted:That's not what I was implying at all. The fact that it's a simple weapon was probably a benefit. You chuck it and get your shield back in place. But it's one that works well as an integrated part of some tactics that rely on highly trained soldiers. Pilum didn't cease to be a standard weapon, but instead its use spread during the Migration Period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angon The English longbow is like katana to weebs, and gets a much too good rep. Scythians made as heavy bows and they were short enough to be used on horseback. Ola posted:Did the Norse use throwing javelins in war? I thought it was all thrusting spears, it's a bit of iron you can give to a farmer, he can cut his own stick. It was a very popular weapon with them.
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Dec 13, 2020 12:31
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Kanine posted:Surely this question has been asked before in various SA history threads but like That the earlier people were more stupid, when humans haven't actually changed much in the last 100k years.
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Dec 13, 2020 12:33
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ChubbyChecker posted:Javelins didn't fall out of favor. Your link literally says it was rare on the battlefield, though, and that it went out of fashion by the 7th century.
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Dec 13, 2020 13:53
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Comstar posted:...Uhh..what are the other 7? Asking for a friend. And how many apply to the USA right about now. quote:I meant there are a lot of lawyers who are feeling like they should have more of a say in how the state is being managed. Well, if you check the Careers law thread you will notice that US law schools have been producing way way more lawyers than can be gainfully employed for years now 
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Dec 13, 2020 13:59
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feedmegin posted:Your link literally says it was rare on the battlefield, though, and that it went out of fashion by the 7th century. The question was: But why did the javelin fall out of favor in europe and the rest of the former Roman empire. After the Western Empire fell the pilums were used for centuries and spread across Europe.
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Dec 13, 2020 15:54
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Stringent posted:the american civil war was not fought over slavery That's not so much a misconception as it is the product of a campaign of misinformation. I guess one thing that bugs me is how people write off organized religion as implicitly the enemy of science and try to ignore how much of an effect it has on people's lives and basically equating the medieval Catholic church with modern fundamentalists. The persecution of Galileo is sometimes treated as like part of the foundational myth of modern science, when at the time it was more of a personal dispute and the flaws in Galileo's reasoning are overlooked because he happened to be right. Comstar posted:...Uhh..what are the other 7? Asking for a friend. And how many apply to the USA right about now. I think there were some articles about Gladstone predicting bad times for America after Peter Turchin started making the rounds with his own new fancy unified theory of history. Actual prediction of the future tends to be sketchy for most historians, although there is some use in pointing out trends that we may want to avert. Humans in theory have ways to change their own paths.
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Dec 13, 2020 15:56
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ChubbyChecker posted:The question was: But why did the javelin fall out of favor in europe and the rest of the former Roman empire. Well, a few centuries. A little bit per your supporting link, not much. And then it did indeed fall out of favour. Question seems pretty reasonable to me.
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Dec 13, 2020 16:04
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Yeah, these are very specific to the Early Modern Period. I only bring it up because of the mention of instability or change coming from within the elite circle in Arglebargle III's post. Having a significant segment of your supposed-to-be-leaders pissed off at the state of affairs is bad at any point in history. I also get pissed off at the idea that religion is the opposite of science because I have an actual science education and that is the dumbest poo poo I have to put up with. Like, right now I'm taking teaching ed classes so I can put my science degree to use for a change and I have to take classes with people who talk about how they received a Christian Science education so evolution is a hard concept for them. As a lapsed Catholic I have to hold my tongue and not just go off on this poo poo. As a scientist I could care less, but as someone raised Catholic it pisses me off that some Protestant yokel from Bumblefuck thinks that they get to decide what 'Christian' means.
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Dec 13, 2020 16:07
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Kanine posted:Surely this question has been asked before in various SA history threads but like Probably the classic mis-interpretation that the low average life expectancy meant that anyone past their mid-thirties was an old man/old woman.
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Dec 13, 2020 17:23
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Kanine posted:Surely this question has been asked before in various SA history threads but like this one modern scholarship has shown that medieval peasants enjoyed a wide variety of extreme nacho products, even if the way they consumed them seems foreign to contemporary audiences
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Dec 13, 2020 17:36
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Ola posted:Did the Norse use throwing javelins in war? I thought it was all thrusting spears, it's a bit of iron you can give to a farmer, he can cut his own stick. Almost certainly. In addition to the aforementioned "Throw a spear overhead to mark the battle" thing, we have, for instance, this, from an Icelandic saga called Grettir's Saga, where Grettir, trying to kill a foe he had a feud with, tries to modify his spear so if he misses, his enemy can't throw it back at him, but makes a mistake doing so.... quote:So did they, and Grettir leapt off his horse; he had a helm on his head, and was girt with the short-sword, and bore a great spear in his hand, a spear without barbs, and the socket inlaid with silver. Now he sat down and knocked out the socket-nail, because he would not that Thorbiorn should cast the spear back.. . . They also used something called a snaerisspjot, which translates to a "spear rope", which were cords attached to a spear to make it fly straighter. Epicurius fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Dec 13, 2020 |
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Dec 13, 2020 17:39
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Kanine posted:what historical misconceptions bother you the most? The way the scale of China is usually portrayed; like it's just another country akin to England or France and not basically a continent by itself. Corollary is how Japan gets written about as though it was in any sense its peer before the 19th century.
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Dec 13, 2020 17:45
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Epicurius posted:Almost certainly. In addition to the aforementioned "Throw a spear overhead to mark the battle" thing, we have, for instance, this, from an Icelandic saga called Grettir's Saga, where Grettir, trying to kill a foe he had a feud with, tries to modify his spear so if he misses, his enemy can't throw it back at him, but makes a mistake doing so.... Yeah, you can’t read Grettir’s or Njal’s saga without running into thrown spears. Grettir’s also has the following excellent spear-stabbing moment: quote:Just then Thorbjorn stepped quickly in front of the door, and with both hands thrust his spear into Atli’s middle, so that it pierced him through. Atli said, when he received the wound, “These broad-bladed spears are all the fashion nowadays.” Then he fell forward onto the threshold. In conclusion, spears are a land of contrasts
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Dec 13, 2020 18:17
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Kanine posted:Surely this question has been asked before in various SA history threads but like That we dont know how the pyramids were made. So many ppl believes this. gently caress that Ancient Aliens bs show.
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Dec 13, 2020 18:28
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Kanine posted:what historical misconceptions bother you the most? "That the Huns were the first to introduce the stirrup, and this advantage was what gave them the edge over Roman forces." - Every dad with a book collection, ever - No, just no, - the Avars were the first iirc, - the Romans had extensive contact with the Huns, were not idiots and would have seen stirrups many times had they been around, - the actual Roman general who will fight the Huns, F. Aetius, spends time as a noble hostage of the Huns as a young man, at the court of the actual Hun king, and probably would have noticed stirrups had they been there. People were doing incredible poo poo with horses for centuries upon centuries without stirrups. They (and the horses) had a lot of loving free time is all I can say about that.
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Dec 13, 2020 18:30
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ChubbyChecker posted:That the earlier people were more stupid, when humans haven't actually changed much in the last 100k years. It's easily this. I think some people don't even realize that they're doing it.
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Dec 13, 2020 19:10
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Grettir's Saga also has a bit where the titular character wrestles a revenant called Glámur and chops his head off but just before he is decapitated he curses Grettir to a life of outlawry and a constant fear of the dark. So for the rest of his life Grettir can't be in the dark without seeing and feeling the eyes of the revenant upon him. He also loots a sword from a barrow and slays the barrow wight ,who is naturally a bit cross that some dude is robbing his grave, and later throws a troll down a waterfall after cleaving off a hand. Grettir himself was an absolute unit  Sidenote: Grettir's greatgrandfather was Önundur tréfótur (or Woodenleg) who fled Norway after being on the losing side against Harald Fairhair and was, as his name suggests, an amputee having lost his leg in the battle of Hafrsfjord and was said to have been the ,,The bravest and most dexterous one legged man in Iceland".
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Dec 13, 2020 19:15
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FreudianSlippers posted:Sidenote: I can't imagine there was a lot of competition for this title
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Dec 13, 2020 19:23
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Dalael posted:That we dont know how the pyramids were made. So many ppl believes this. gently caress that Ancient Aliens bs show. Do we know how the pyramids were made? I thought we had some good ideas, but has it been 100% figured out now? I'm not talking about aliens, I've always understood that we have ideas on how they were made but didn't have enough evidence to say that "yes, this is how they were constructed."
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Dec 13, 2020 23:03
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Koramei posted:The way the scale of China is usually portrayed; like it's just another country akin to England or France and not basically a continent by itself. That “China” is now considered just one “country” (whatever the gently caress that is) with one history and one culture, while this thread generates a string of posts about some dude in northern Europe maybe throwing a spear 1000 years ago and someone else writing a poem about it That says something
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Dec 13, 2020 23:34
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Maybe it says that China has worked hard to depict itself that way?
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Dec 13, 2020 23:40
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Korea being a small and insignificant power that was a mere vassal state to the mighty Chinese dynasties is one misconception that annoys me because it massively oversimplifies their actual military and cultural relationship to the rest of Asia.
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Dec 14, 2020 00:02
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China has 5000 continuous years of culture! According to the government.
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Dec 14, 2020 00:22
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Benagain posted:China has 5000 continuous years of culture! According to the government. To be fair the West was making this mistake in regards to China long before the Chinese Communist Party was a twinkle in Mao's eye.
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Dec 14, 2020 01:01
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galagazombie posted:To be fair the West was making this mistake in regards to China long before the Chinese Communist Party was a twinkle in Mao's eye. Mao didn't found the CCP
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Dec 14, 2020 01:09
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PeterCat posted:Do we know how the pyramids were made? Lots of people, rope, and levers. Seriously you can do insane poo poo with enough manpower.
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Dec 14, 2020 01:50
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quote:Now Grettir got into the mead, and when he came within spear-throw of them, he cast his spear at Thorbiorn, but the head was looser on the shaft than he deemed it would be, and it swerved in its flight, and fell down from the shaft to the earth Is this meant to be something else, or is it saying that he got plastered in between sabotaging his own spear and going out to fight? skasion posted:“These broad-bladed spears are all the fashion nowadays.” That's straight out of Dwarf Fortress 
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Dec 14, 2020 01:50
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Kanine posted:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWnlQMQ-ACfhpD68yWRsnJw Tod is really cool, and so is scholagladiatora. The fact that both of them often collaborate with tobias capwell gives them a lot of credibility. Tod also made the real swords for the witcher tv show which is cool af.
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Dec 14, 2020 02:08
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Kylaer posted:Is this meant to be something else, or is it saying that he got plastered in between sabotaging his own spear and going out to fight? with Grettir, you couldn’t rule it out. Pretty sure it’s mead in the sense of “meadow” though. My copy has “marsh” instead
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Dec 14, 2020 02:09
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While I have no doubt Grettir was drunk, I was using an older translation, and a lot of the older translators liked archaisms when they were translating old stuff, to reflect that it it was old timey and poetic. Mead is an archaic word for meadow.
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Dec 14, 2020 02:25
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The original word seems to have been ,,mýri" so swamp/marsh/bog.
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Dec 14, 2020 02:35
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