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A Buttery Pastry posted:WTF is this? It's a HUMAN Development Index, not a Norwegian Development Index. If your "development" is carried by offloading misery unto the rest of the world as well as its future inhabitants, then that's not exactly quality development. Luxembourg is the rear end in a top hat champion of 2020. Adjusted by planet upfuckery they drop an insane 131 places, from number 23 to 154 (out of 189 ranked countries). The hugest rear end in a top hat oil nations like Qatar och UAE can't even drop 90 places, losers. http://hdr.undp.org/sites/default/files/hdr2020.pdf
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Dec 15, 2020 14:11
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A Buttery Pastry posted:WTF is this? It's a HUMAN Development Index, not a Norwegian Development Index. If your "development" is carried by offloading misery unto the rest of the world as well as its future inhabitants, then that's not exactly quality development. 1. Is it carried by that though? 2. Is it relevant to development though? HDI is a well-being of humans index and up until now carried no "unskewing of the numbers" connotations attached to climate change. They hosed up their previously sensible index and made it an "oh and also climate change". I have no idea what it indexes now. Might as well also index waffle availability. Australia fell loving 72 spots. Was the index that loving wrong before? There's reason to wonder whether it was useless before or if it's useless now. While the conclusion about climate change and everyone needing to do better is fine, when your new conclusion looks like this you really need some strong loving arguments as to why Norway in terms of human well-being -in Norway- is now worse in 2021 than Slovenia. Or Denmark. And I'm not seeing the relevancy argument.
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Dec 15, 2020 14:14
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A Buttery Pastry posted:WTF is this? It's a HUMAN Development Index, not a Norwegian Development Index. If your "development" is carried by offloading misery unto the rest of the world as well as its future inhabitants, then that's not exactly quality development. It reminds me of how all the dirty-rear end production was outsourced to China etc., and then later everyone beats Asian countries over the head for being gross polluters. But I do agree with the Fish that it should probably have been a separate index, rather than appropriating an existing one with a clear meaning and history.
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Dec 15, 2020 14:46
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KozmoNaut posted:It reminds me of how all the dirty-rear end production was outsourced to China etc., and then later everyone beats Asian countries over the head for being gross polluters. The UN posted:The Planetary pressures-adjusted Human Development Index (PHDI) is an experimental index that adjusts the Human Development Index (HDI) for planetary pressures in the Anthropocene. The PHDI discounts the HDI for pressures on the planet to reflect a concern for intergenerational inequality, similar to the Inequality-adjusted HDI adjustment which is motivated by a concern for intragenerational inequality. It is computed as the product of the HDI and (1 – index of planetary pressures) where (1 – index of planetary pressures) can be seen as an adjustment factor. Nice piece of fish posted:1. Is it carried by that though? Nice piece of fish posted:2. Is it relevant to development though? HDI is a well-being of humans index and up until now carried no "unskewing of the numbers" connotations attached to climate change. Nice piece of fish posted:While the conclusion about climate change and everyone needing to do better is fine, when your new conclusion looks like this you really need some strong loving arguments as to why Norway in terms of human well-being -in Norway- is now worse in 2021 than Slovenia. Or Denmark. And I'm not seeing the relevancy argument.
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Dec 15, 2020 14:58
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So the IMPORTANT stuff, who gets dunked hardest among Nordics:pre:Country HDI PHDI Change Norway 1 16 -15 Iceland 4(tied) 30 -26 Sweden 7 6 +1 Denmark 10 5 +5 Finland 11 30 -19   
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Dec 15, 2020 15:12
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Oh okay, so it's a totally real and not bullshit metric that has poisoned the original meaning and purpose behind the HDI for cheap political points. I suppose it totally accounts for a totality of carbon emission causing consumption in a fair and equitable manner having regard to all known factors then. Ok. You can poo poo all over us for the oil industry but the HDI wasn't about unskewing the "fairness" of a fossil fuel economy. And if the point was to make a different index or point, why did they name it an HDI? UN approved official HDI?
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Dec 15, 2020 15:25
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Nice piece of fish posted:Oh okay, so it's a totally real and not bullshit metric that has poisoned the original meaning and purpose behind the HDI for cheap political points. I suppose it totally accounts for a totality of carbon emission causing consumption in a fair and equitable manner having regard to all known factors then. Nice piece of fish posted:You can poo poo all over us for the oil industry but the HDI wasn't about unskewing the "fairness" of a fossil fuel economy. And if the point was to make a different index or point, why did they name it an HDI? UN approved official HDI?
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Dec 15, 2020 15:35
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A Buttery Pastry posted:It is not solely about fossil fuels, there's a material footprint index too which covers other types of resources being extracted. This is incidentally where Norway shits the bed. so in other words, this? 
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Dec 15, 2020 15:53
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i find myself not caring that much, i realise hydroelectric power, for example, is becoming increasingly maligned by EU authorities interested in keeping norwegian electricity imports as uncompetitive as possible. this isn't a totally unreasonable line of thinking - building hydroelectric has a big ecological footprint - but it's pretty obviously not what's going on in the eurocrats' heads not 100% on what's going on here, but it would absolutely not surprise me to see hydroelectric power and people actually living in large parts of the country adjust the stats downward
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Dec 15, 2020 15:54
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Sankta Lucia posted:so in other words, this? this sort of rhetoric gives me a headache the global consumption of fossil fuels will be practically unaffected by a unilateral halt in extraction. OPEC has reserve capacity enough to cover the norwegian decrease, and absolutely would in this scenario, and if they didn't the yanks could slightly decrease their subsidies. it's a problem that the petroleum lobby is so strong and tends to act against necessary retooling of our economy, but this sort of talk is just weird moralism imo
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Dec 15, 2020 15:59
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V. Illych L. posted:this sort of rhetoric gives me a headache i'm not making any arguments either way, just trying to make sense of it 
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Dec 15, 2020 16:02
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Nice piece of fish posted:Oh okay, so it's a totally real and not bullshit metric that has poisoned the original meaning and purpose behind the HDI for cheap political points.
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Dec 15, 2020 16:08
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tbh i expect that if they were serious about weighing fossil fuels iran would not be above norway, this almost certainly has something to do with land use somehow e. wait no i misunderstood something, sorry
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Dec 15, 2020 16:09
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Looks like Støjberg might be getting a rigsretssag after all. If anything comes of it I'm still expecting it to be a slap on the wrist.
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Dec 15, 2020 16:39
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evil_bunnY posted:Were're killing the planet but go on about your imaginary points butthurt. Nono, I get that. We're absolutely killing life on the planet and Norway as a producer of fossil fuels is a disproportionate contributor - through absolutely no spesific fault of the general populace though (unless you're prepared to blame the gen pop of China for chinese emissions for instance). I don't actually have a huge amount of butthurt invested in the HDI before or after pollution was a metric for human development. What tickles my assbeard is actually how this change makes the HDI - previously a somewhat relevant index for comparing the socioeconomic status of the inhabitants of countries, their access to education, health care, etc. - into an absolutely say-nothing statistic and the fact that this is a: newsworthy and b: useless UN posturing makes me go Nice piece of fish posted:Lmao. Stay relevant, UN. Which was the entirety and encompasses all of my point. Then someone accused the entire nation of Norway of A Buttery Pastry posted:offloading misery unto the rest of the world as well as its future inhabitants which isn't what the index says, isn't what one should conclude, isn't loving true, is a nonsensible metric of human development, and makes me wonder how every other country would look like in this index if "offloading misery" actually was a part of the index. Now that hot take is my problem. But it's a pretty bad one so I'll concede I probably shouldn't have replied to the bait, well done.
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Dec 15, 2020 16:47
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Nice piece of fish posted:What tickles my assbeard is actually how this change makes the HDI - previously a somewhat relevant index for comparing the socioeconomic status of the inhabitants of countries, their access to education, health care, etc. - into an absolutely say-nothing statistic and the fact that this is a: newsworthy and b: useless UN posturing makes me go
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Dec 15, 2020 16:59
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Nice piece of fish posted:This duty supercedes the creation of diplomats and the respect for diplomatic immunity anyway.
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Dec 15, 2020 17:19
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Alhazred posted:But not to make the state abolish solitary confinement. Maybe. Maybe it should. I might disagree with some leading ECHR jurists on that. I believe solitary confinement is torture and is prohibited except when needed for personal security.
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Dec 15, 2020 17:29
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Nice piece of fish posted:Now that hot take is my problem. But it's a pretty bad one so I'll concede I probably shouldn't have replied to the bait, well done.
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Dec 15, 2020 18:14
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SplitSoul posted:Looks like Støjberg might be getting a rigsretssag after all. Depends on stones in glass houses. A+V is 91 mandates.
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Dec 15, 2020 18:29
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Still kinda darkly funny that UN now thinks Israel is treating people better than Norway.
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Dec 15, 2020 20:09
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Didn't Israel do a murder in Norway and Norway get them get away with it?
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Dec 15, 2020 20:53
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Lövfen lost the last election so badly that it vaporized the opposition coalition. I suspect that the next election has us due for 8 years of M rule at the head of a new Alliance. Probably not featuring SD since the poor handling of Corona will probably hit S pretty hard at the voting booths and possible make an Alliance lone majority viable. I mean those C and L voters didn't run off to vote V or S so they're still out there.
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Dec 15, 2020 21:26
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Katt posted:Didn't Israel do a murder in Norway and Norway get them get away with it? No, the supreme court said some stern words to Israel.
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Dec 15, 2020 21:28
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Katt posted:Lövfen lost the last election so badly that it vaporized the opposition coalition. Although latest SCB had an interesting shift of second best party among C voters. So Swedish leftists might end up tied together with C for a long time. Enjoy.
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Dec 15, 2020 21:30
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My gf is explaining that Stojberg is going to get "a nose", and I'm like... "what?"
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Dec 15, 2020 22:33
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It's when some politicians give another politician a very stern look of disapproval, while mouthing "Bad dog". Støjberg is clearly deeply affected by it, here she is today showing how much she's grown: quote:Regeringen hæver skatter og afgifter for at betale for flere betjente. Man burde have set på, om de penge kunne være taget fra arbejdsløse indvandrere eller SU til udlændinge
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Dec 15, 2020 22:52
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Maybe we need another index like a "average subjective experience of quality of life index". Thats what i am interested in knowing. Where are we and where are we going. You would have to weigh material development together with social and cultural traits if the society in question. High levels of public trust would weigh in our favor, climate guilt which some people are bothered with would weigh against us. I dunno where norway would end up, probably top ten but not as nr 1.
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Dec 15, 2020 23:27
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SplitSoul posted:Looks like Støjberg might be getting a rigsretssag after all. After a drawn-out courtroom drama and millions of tax kroner down the drain, she'll finally feel the embarrassing sting of the næse. That'll show her. 
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Dec 16, 2020 00:15
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A Buttery Pastry posted:WTF is this? It's a HUMAN Development Index, not a Norwegian Development Index. If your "development" is carried by offloading misery unto the rest of the world as well as its future inhabitants, then that's not exactly quality development. The UK jumped to number 4 though, and they're awful. Norway could definitely do better, but list seems pretty weird.
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Dec 16, 2020 02:50
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Cardiac posted:Although latest SCB had an interesting shift of second best party among C voters. The compassionate randians
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Dec 16, 2020 02:52
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thotsky posted:The UK jumped to number 4 though, and they're awful. Norway could definitely do better, but list seems pretty weird. How can they be high on any such list? Massive income discrepancies and inequality for a western nation, perhaps only beaten by the US in that regard. And they still use coal there for heating, as well as fuel oil and gas, gas in particular is used a lot and to me that seems like it should really drag any country down. Housing stock isn't very climate friendly either. This list doesn't make any sense and I don't know what it's supposed to report any more. It seems to have become utterly pointless.
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Dec 16, 2020 07:25
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Denmark is doing a more proper shutdown now, with malls being shut as of today, and all shops except grocery stores and pharmacies closing as of the 25th. This seems like a good decision. People still reacted by immediately rushing to Magasin 
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Dec 16, 2020 20:47
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Esran posted:This seems like a good decision. People still reacted by immediately rushing to Magasin I feel this pandemic would be over quicker if the government just responded to this particular type of genius with sustained machine-gun fire.
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Dec 16, 2020 23:34
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SplitSoul posted:I feel this pandemic would be over quicker if the government just responded to this particular type of genius with sustained machine-gun fire. Or if we, preferably on a global or at least European scale, agreed to do two weeks of real proper lockdown, no one in or out. It works suck a lot for those two weeks, but there would be no one left to infect others afterwards.
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Dec 17, 2020 00:04
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BonHair posted:Or if we, preferably on a global or at least European scale, agreed to do two weeks of real proper lockdown, no one in or out. It works suck a lot for those two weeks, but there would be no one left to infect others afterwards.
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Dec 17, 2020 12:07
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Surely going back and forth according to infection waves perpetually is much better? 
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Dec 17, 2020 14:21
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Poil posted:Surely going back and forth according to infection waves perpetually is much better? When you put it like that it sounds idiotic, however if you said "flatten the curve" it comes of much more professional and meritorious.
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Dec 17, 2020 14:43
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The swedish government does not have the ability to enforce a nationwide lockdown and I don't think a global lockdown would be much easier. Hopefully the vaccine is effective because we do not appear to have any other options.
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Dec 17, 2020 14:45
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So my christmas got cancelled now. Thanks everyone who had to go shopping on black friday! Thank you all companies that just have to make a lil more money for your owners. Love not being able to see my parentes for a year since idiots just have to consume poo poo and dont give a gently caress about anyone except themselves. Yes im mad.
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Dec 17, 2020 15:04
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