|
? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Yes |
|
44 | 35.20% |
| No |
|
81 | 64.80% |
| Total: | 125 votes | ||
|
The alternative of no ppp means that the small businesses go under and their employees get fired, while the big businesses also fire people (because with no ppp they have no financial incentive not to), and the big businesses also have the resources to weather the storm. No ppp means the big businesses actually have relatively more power and way more people get fired.
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 08:00 |
|
|
Best Friends posted:The alternative of no ppp means that the small businesses go under and their employees get fired, while the big businesses also fire people (because with no ppp they have no financial incentive not to), and the big businesses also have the resources to weather the storm. No ppp means the big businesses actually have relatively more power and way more people get fired. everybody looting the country likes that people think there’s no alternative to PPP except going under
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:37
|
|
|
“Here’s just enough to survive, while I take my millions.” Thank you sir may I have another?
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:39
|
|
|
I certainly don't see any alternative being proposed. Your logic also works to say that the $1200 checks shouldn't go out, since bill Gates gets one. It's the same logic that also says we shouldn't do Medicare for all or free college, because without means testing, the rich benefit. Which is to say it's not good logic imo. The ppp is literally a subsidy to not fire people. That's good.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:41
|
|
|
Woofer posted:everybody looting the country likes that people think there’s no alternative to PPP except going under He's not wrong, big businesses benefited in the short term from PPP but big businesses also benefit from small-to-mid sized businesses going broke since there's less competition. And for businesses like movie theaters that effectively have to stay closed for the duration of the pandemic, no amount of direct stimulus to individuals will actually help keep them afloat. Like, the execution was piss-poor and the amount of graft was huge, but there were (and are) legitimate reasons to help businesses keep people employed.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:42
|
|
|
Stop accepting the bare minimum or expect the bare minimum.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:43
|
|
|
Best Friends posted:I certainly don't see any alternative being proposed. People still got fired. Billionaires still made millions. This is another case of “it helped me so it must be good.” It’s not. You’re getting fleeced. You’re getting just enough of a hit to keep you satisfied til you need more. Just because it helped people doesn’t mean it should be accepted, because it’s helping people just to keep you off the rear end of the people who make the decisions.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:44
|
|
|
Woofer posted:Stop accepting the bare minimum or expect the bare minimum. Fam we just had an entire primary about this.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:46
|
|
|
Are you saying that more people should get fired? In the event we had a full on social democracy we'd also have some form of subsidy to not fire people. Being mad at a "don't fire people" subsidy being implemented across the board makes sense from a libertarian position but if you're a leftist whatsoever I think you are not making sense. Can you find me a single labor union that doesn't want the ppp?
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:46
|
|
|
Defenestrategy posted:Fam we just had an entire primary about this. Ok and that’s over. Don’t expect people to steer themselves left. I didn’t vote for Biden because I thought he would change the world. I voted for Biden because I think if we burn his loving house down he will be more likely to listen than Donald Trump. But we will shitpost and tweet because we are actually okay with the status quo.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:47
|
|
|
Best Friends posted:Are you saying that more people should get fired? Il Yes that’s what I’m saying exactly.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:47
|
|
|
Woofer posted:Stop accepting the bare minimum or expect the bare minimum. I'm not sure what you're even arguing right now??? Nobody thinks the PPP is sufficient by itself (Well except maybe some Republican Senators but nobody here is one of those), or that large businesses didn't take advantage of it while smaller companies (The intended recipients) struggled. Direct payments, PPP, enhanced unemployment, all of these things are important tools to keep people alive and healthy during the pandemic, and all of them do so in different ways.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:48
|
|
|
Woofer posted:Yes that’s what I’m saying exactly. That does literally seem like your argument yes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:49
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:I'm not sure what you're even arguing right now??? Nobody thinks the PPP is sufficient by itself (Well except maybe some Republican Senators but nobody here is one of those), or that large businesses didn't take advantage of it while smaller companies (The intended recipients) struggled. Direct payments, PPP, enhanced unemployment, all of these things are important tools to keep people alive and healthy during the pandemic, and all of them do so in different ways. Don’t thank people for giving you the bare minimum. Take what they give you and beat them over the head until they give you what you actually need. This is why this country loving sucks. We let ourselves get fleeced and accept it like it’s a big loving favor.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:49
|
|
|
Well here's some hilarious good news. https://twitter.com/owermohle/status/1339338381831114759 Apparently vials are routinely overfilled due to expected spillage in the draw, but Pfizer's vials are REALLY overfilled and pharmacists were like "hey, there's enough for another dose or two".
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:49
|
|
|
Best Friends posted:That does literally seem like your argument yes. Ok
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:50
|
|
|
Woofer posted:Don’t thank people for giving you the bare minimum. Take what they give you and beat them over the head until they give you what you actually need. Cole I legitimately have no idea what you're trying to say or what you think I'm saying (Or what Best Friends is saying).
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:50
|
|
|
you cant keep businesses alive because there is no demand because the rich fired 30 million people also they just took the PPP funds, fired people, hired their friends and gave them the money.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:51
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:Cole I legitimately have no idea what you're trying to say or what you think I'm saying. It’s in pretty plain English dude. The PPP program is a loving fraud program meant to make people even more wealthy while doing *just enough* to keep people happy. It deserves absolutely no praise whatsoever. People shouldn’t be happy with it. They should be demanding significantly more.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:52
|
|
|
lets make it easy to understand PPP is just trickle down theory applied to benefits
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:53
|
|
|
The ppp helped a small nonprofit I work with a lot. To not have to pay the ppp loan back, the terms were explicit that the nonprofit couldn't fire people, and they didn't. They weren't going to fire people anyway but getting a bunch of free money when everything else went into the red was great.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:54
|
|
|
facialimpediment posted:Well here's some hilarious good news. Yes, give me the vax equivalent of scraping out the resin in my bong.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:55
|
|
|
Best Friends posted:The ppp helped a small nonprofit I work with a lot. To not have to pay the ppp loan back, the terms were explicit that the nonprofit couldn't fire people, and they didn't. They weren't going to fire people anyway but getting a bunch of free money when everything else went into the red was great. the billionaires who made millions off of PPP liked this post
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:55
|
|
|
Woofer posted:the billionaires who made millions off of PPP liked this post gently caress dude. So you really want to see the nonprofit I'm involved with to go under and all the people they help get hosed over (I'd get more specific but I don't want to dox myself), because you want to see big businesses also fire more people. gently caress you.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:58
|
|
|
Best Friends posted:gently caress dude. So you really want to see the nonprofit I'm involved with to go under and all the people they help get hosed over (I'd get more specific but I don't want to dox myself), because you want to see big businesses also fire more people. gently caress you. Yes, that’s exactly what i said.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:59
|
|
|
It literally loving is or you're illiterate.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:59
|
|
|
Woofer posted:the billionaires who made millions off of PPP liked this post Cole this is some "we live in a society" poo poo, gently caress off dude.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 00:00
|
|
|
drat. Billionaires have people lobbying for robbing taxpayers in this very thread. I guess the PPP worked as intended.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 00:01
|
|
|
Woofer posted:the billionaires who made millions off of PPP liked this post I understand where you're coming from and you are obviously justifiably angry but you're also being a bit of a jerk about it when you keep making these kinds of posts. It's not like Best Friends was personally responsible for the disbursement and administration of PPP loans (...Probably. Has anyone seen him and Steve Mnuchin in the same room?), and it's not like he's defending the massive corruption and graft—merely noting that in spite of the graft, the program did do a lot to help people who needed it. And obviously people should demand more direct relief, nobody disagrees with that—but another round of PPP will do good in helping people.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 00:03
|
|
|
No, you posting is loving exhausting dude.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 00:03
|
|
|
orange juche posted:No, you posting is loving exhausting dude. I don’t care. Stop letting billionaires rob us blind. that is what’s loving exhausting.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 00:04
|
|
|
So I got a PPP loan for my business, under $50k, and we were able to keep all of our employees on and every single cent went to their pay. I'd like to think we're one of the businesses who did it "right" and that the PPP loan we got was a net gain for both my business and society as a whole. In order to apply for forgiveness for that sub $50k loan, I had to provide basically everything even remotely related to payroll records for last year and this year, my taxes, and every single cancelled check I wrote to an employee for the time the loan covered. A bit of a pain in the rear end for a small business, but certainly worth it. (Assuming they approve it and it gets forgiven, which should happen in roughly 90 days) My question is, is that same level of scrutiny being applied to all businesses that got a PPP loan, and if the answer is no, then why the gently caress not?
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 00:05
|
|
|
cerebral posted:
Because it’s actually socialism for the rich disguised as a program to help small/mid-sized businesses 
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 00:06
|
|
|
Woofer posted:I don’t care. Stop letting billionaires rob us blind. that is what’s loving exhausting. What exactly do you suggest then? instead of coy bullshit edgyposting just throw it in the open dude.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 00:06
|
|
|
Woofer posted:the billionaires who made millions off of PPP liked this post This is Solendra all over again. The extreme visible exceptions are much more visible over an enormous number of small successes. I think every restaurant in the small town I live in got PPP money and used it to last an extra 3 months minimum and keeping people employed. Small business owners are the ones requiring the most support and this did help. Noone is arguing it was some perfect miracle but it was effective while it lasted. It should have been one piece of support combined with direct payments and whatever else.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 00:07
|
|
|
orange juche posted:What exactly do you suggest then? instead of coy bullshit edgyposting just throw it in the open dude. I already said that we accept getting railroaded by billionaires and will do nothing but say thank you and poo poo post about it. But if you really would like to know, I’m taking a class starting in January on organizing social movements. Maybe it will help, maybe it won’t. I previously took a class at this school that had a profound effect on my viewpoints regarding social justice, so I think it will provide me valuable information because I want to mobilize. If you’d like information on the class I’ll be taking, I can get it to you. There are still openings. Otherwise, what are you doing? Woofer fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Dec 17, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 00:08
|
|
|
orange juche posted:What exactly do you suggest then? instead of coy bullshit edgyposting just throw it in the open dude. "uh sir you can't be mad unless you're an expert in the field of economics and pandemics and have a better idea to propose. so shut the gently caress up" this loving something awful, shut the gently caress up and let him vent, he's right too btw
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 00:09
|
|
|
Woofer posted:I already said that we accept getting railroaded by billionaires and will do nothing but say thank you and poo poo post about it. What is your concrete, actionable, solution to fix this, then? edgy posting on a dead comedy forum isn't it. Woofer posted:the billionaires who made millions off of PPP liked this post this is not the answer. IF you have an actual, concrete path forward, instead of sniping at your posting enemies, lets hear it?
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 00:10
|
|
|
orange juche posted:What is your concrete, actionable, solution to fix this, then? edgy posting on a dead comedy forum isn't it. I’m hoping that the education I receive in the class I’m taking will help provide clarity on that. Do you have any solutions, or are you doing any work to help you arrive at a solution? Again, anybody who wants info on the class is more than welcome. It’s virtual. The school had produced peace prize winners who have stopped civil wars in African countries, fwiw. E: also it costs $750 to take the class. You can do it for credit, for certification, or just because you want to learn. In fact, I will pay for one person to take the class with me. So at least I’m loving trying instead of just bending over and accepting whatever charity they decide we “deserve” Woofer fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Dec 17, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 00:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 08:00 |
|
|
Also the costs associated with a small business going bankrupt are extreme. One going bankrupt in a town is recoverable but it still takes a period for a new one to fill that space. Multiple businesses going bankrupt can lead to a negative cycle throughout. My downtown is filled with restaurants and hair salons, all of them under pressure from COVID.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 00:13
|
|