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why would you teach Unix programming but not the Unix that people actually use like what’s the point of that
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Dec 17, 2020 08:35
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eschaton posted:why would you teach Unix programming but not the Unix that people actually use macOS is on servers and embedded products????
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Dec 17, 2020 08:37
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DoomTrainPhD posted:there’s absolutely no reason to use macOS for posix tools when docker exists on macOS and you can just use a real Linux on macOS. you dont even need docker anymore, the virtualization framework in big sur natively boots a linux kernel + image https://github.com/evansm7/vftool
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Dec 17, 2020 08:57
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some people, when they realise their os is a pos, think “I know, I’ll use virtualized linux”. now they have two pos
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Dec 17, 2020 10:29
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Athas posted:When I teach Unix programming to undergrads if you are teaching them about writing stuff that needs to run on multiple platforms, #ifdef hell is not a topic you can avoid
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Dec 17, 2020 11:38
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industry will teach them various hells quickly enough if needed, somewhat principled reasoning about synchronization is best done picking one set of primitives and focusing on that.
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Dec 17, 2020 11:55
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It's also great that macOS has a gcc that is not gcc, and bundled clang has disabled OpenMP for some reason. I've started telling my students to just install Ubuntu in a VirtualBox because I cannot figure out how the hell their weird pseudo-Unix is supposed to work.
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Dec 17, 2020 14:41
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just have your students ssh into the linux or Unix machines in the lab? surely you have that last bastion of actual multi user setups
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Dec 17, 2020 14:47
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Phobeste posted:just have your students ssh into the linux or Unix machines in the lab? surely you have that last bastion of actual multi user setups Universally student-accessible shared systems were removed years ago, unfortunately. Athas fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Dec 17, 2020 |
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Dec 17, 2020 14:50
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list a lenovo laptop below the textbook in course requirements
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Dec 17, 2020 15:06
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Phobeste posted:just have your students ssh into the linux or Unix machines in the lab? surely you have that last bastion of actual multi user setups Athas posted:Universally student-accessible shared systems were removed year ago, unfortunately. and stop calling them Shirley
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Dec 17, 2020 15:51
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LINUX stands for LINUX Is Not UNix
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Dec 17, 2020 16:35
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carry on then posted:LINUX stands for LINUX Is Not UNix big if true
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Dec 17, 2020 16:35
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linux is not UX
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Dec 17, 2020 19:44
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Athas posted:It's also great that macOS has a gcc that is not gcc, and bundled clang has disabled OpenMP for some reason. the weird pseudo unix is gnu/linux, op. possibly you should stop claiming to teach a unix programming course if you freak out every time a student tries to program a unix? call it what it is, i.e. linux programming, macos is no longer relevant, problem solved
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Dec 17, 2020 19:46
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infernal machines posted:linux is not UX you can say that again!
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Dec 17, 2020 20:07
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programming a Unix and not willing to deal with weird incompatibilities...bro do you even #ifdef
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Dec 17, 2020 21:12
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Dec 17, 2020 21:16
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the most unix-like thing about osx is having random oss tools that are old enough to drive
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Dec 17, 2020 21:20
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infernal machines posted:the most unix-like thing about osx is having random oss tools that are old enough to drive yeah, this is a core part of the unix experience, as anyone who’s used solaris, hp-ux, etc. can testify. loving lol at linux scrubs who expect a unix to have all the latest non-standard gnu’s-not-unix extensions.
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Dec 18, 2020 02:08
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Soricidus posted:yeah, this is a core part of the unix experience, as anyone who’s used solaris, hp-ux, etc. can testify. the "latest features" like unnamed posix semaphores, which have been around since at least 1993 when macos was still called NeXTStep
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Dec 18, 2020 02:13
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Soricidus posted:yeah, this is a core part of the unix experience, as anyone who’s used solaris, hp-ux, etc. can testify. god yes. solaris 10 changing the behaviour of "ps" just to gently caress with you.
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Dec 18, 2020 02:28
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infernal machines posted:linux is not UX 
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Dec 18, 2020 03:22
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mycophobia posted:you can say that again! 
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Dec 18, 2020 04:26
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josh04 posted:god yes. solaris 10 changing the behaviour of "ps" just to gently caress with you. solaris shop I worked in had gnu ps installed as part of the standard image
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Dec 18, 2020 05:42
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josh04 posted:god yes. solaris 10 changing the behaviour of "ps" just to gently caress with you. My favorite solaris-ism is the behavior of killall. On Linux it kills all processes that match a given command line argument. On Solaris it doesn't and just, well, kills all the processes. Lots and lots of Linux people with no Solaris experience have brought down Solaris boxes like that. It's like a rite of passage.
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Dec 18, 2020 08:13
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spankmeister posted:My favorite solaris-ism is the behavior of killall. lol wtf
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Dec 18, 2020 08:14
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mycophobia posted:lol wtf UNIX philosophy in action. It does one thing very well
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Dec 18, 2020 08:23
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spankmeister posted:My favorite solaris-ism is the behavior of killall. Yep yep yep, die init die!
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Dec 18, 2020 09:14
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spankmeister posted:My favorite solaris-ism is the behavior of killall. I have heard this tale many times, but I never heard an explanation for why Solaris killall does this. When is it useful?
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Dec 18, 2020 09:20
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You need a way to kill all the processes so you can unmount all the filesystems before powering off.
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Dec 18, 2020 10:03
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minimal install of redhat/centos ships with no killall. instead, there's some weird killall5 executable in one of the sbins that murders pid 1, thus hanging your system, so if you try to tabcomplete killall it can catch you off-guard. hasn't happened to me yet because i always type it out, but i've seen it happen to someone once at a previous workplace
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Dec 18, 2020 10:45
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Athas posted:I have heard this tale many times, but I never heard an explanation for why Solaris killall does this. When is it useful? linux is the odd one here fwiw. the killall in solaris and aix and hpux and so on are direct descendants of the sysv version
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Dec 19, 2020 02:48
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Orthodox UNIX
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Dec 19, 2020 02:49
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why does this killall command kill all it is a mystery
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Dec 19, 2020 03:25
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PCjr sidecar posted:why does this killall command kill all
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Dec 19, 2020 03:28
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i guess that would explain what happened to nbsd
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Dec 19, 2020 03:29
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mystes posted:Does the solaris tar command also tar and feather lovely posters? i mean u could’ve gone for tar stands for tape archiver but there’s no tape involved qed
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Dec 19, 2020 03:43
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pram posted:linux is the odd one here fwiw. the killall in solaris and aix and hpux and so on are direct descendants of the sysv version freebsd and macos have the same behavior as linux tho, for once it’s not just gnu not being unix
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Dec 19, 2020 09:41
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Soricidus posted:freebsd and macos have the same behavior as linux tho, for once it’s not just gnu not being unix looks like it didnt exist until sysv. bsd broke off from far more ancient versions of unix. the man page for freebsd killall says: The killall command appeared in FreeBSD 2.1 which means they 100% just copied whatever linux was doing. it wasnt present in bsd 4.4 so it wouldnt have been in nextstep either theres your worthless unix history lesson for today
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Dec 19, 2020 10:06
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