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Are you thinking of Franklin Richards because the character in question is Evan Sabahnur, a teen clone of Apocalypse.
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Dec 16, 2020 22:55
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How Wonderful! posted:Are you thinking of Franklin Richards because the character in question is Evan Sabahnur, a teen clone of Apocalypse. I think they were making a joke. I'm also enjoying X-Force. I remember when it was first announced the blurb was "Mutant CIA" and everyone (including me) was like, "the CIA is loving terrible and evil and most of the poo poo they do to 'protect us' has massive blowback that puts us even more at risk." And Benjamin Percy's response is "yes, I know."
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Dec 16, 2020 23:04
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Skwirl posted:I think they were making a joke. 
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Dec 17, 2020 01:31
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Oh, sorry, I think it went over my head.
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Dec 17, 2020 01:34
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Skwirl posted:I'm also enjoying X-Force. I remember when it was first announced the blurb was "Mutant CIA" and everyone (including me) was like, "the CIA is loving terrible and evil and most of the poo poo they do to 'protect us' has massive blowback that puts us even more at risk." And Benjamin Percy's response is "yes, I know." I just hate Domino had to be part of it. Not unlike Jean, coming from a stellar series pre-HoX both of them feel like they got a definite downgrade.
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Dec 17, 2020 01:43
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Evan is also basically Deadpool's son. I'm a little grieved in general that Deadpool doesn't have more relevance to Krakoa.
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Dec 17, 2020 01:56
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Gologle posted:Evan is also basically Deadpool's son. I'm a little grieved in general that Deadpool doesn't have more relevance to Krakoa. He isn't a mutant. (Deadpool, I mean).
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Dec 17, 2020 02:02
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I like the idea of the New Mutants generation of mutants having to be teachers to the younger generations of mutants; James in his shorts had big "camp counselor" vibes. Also, Honey Badger questioning the treatment of clones was very good and I hope more comes out of it. X-Force continues to be pretty good; I dreaded it when it started, but now it's been pretty at being what it is, a chance for Beast to show how much of a dick he is.
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Dec 17, 2020 02:14
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Gologle posted:Evan is also basically Deadpool's son. I'm a little grieved in general that Deadpool doesn't have more relevance to Krakoa. deadpool's big relationships with mutants were cable, siryn and evan. as of the last issue of x-factor, all of them are dead. i guess there's also copycat, but she's alive and hasn't really been relevant to anything in decades. still, no one who is alive and matters wants wade on krakoa.
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Dec 17, 2020 02:46
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Does Wade even remember Evan exists after the end of Duggan's run where he deliberately murders every memory he had during the series?
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Dec 17, 2020 03:59
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Blockhouse posted:Does Wade even remember Evan exists after the end of Duggan's run where he deliberately murders every memory he had during the series? Evan predates the Duggan run, so maybe? In my head cannon Deadpool also pretends to not remember poo poo when it's convenient.
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Dec 17, 2020 04:04
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:deadpool's big relationships with mutants were cable, siryn and evan. as of the last issue of x-factor, all of them are dead. i guess there's also copycat, but she's alive and hasn't really been relevant to anything in decades. still, no one who is alive and matters wants wade on krakoa. He was big with Rogue and Wolverine too. It does get brought up in his current series, there were people that would have wanted Deadpool involved but he's too much chaos just as they're trying to establish Krakoa. Prodigy ran the numbers and Deadpool involvement leads to a 97% increase to the chance Krakoa fails completely.
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Dec 17, 2020 13:54
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:He was big with Rogue and Wolverine too. It does get brought up in his current series, there were people that would have wanted Deadpool involved but he's too much chaos just as they're trying to establish Krakoa. Prodigy ran the numbers and Deadpool involvement leads to a 97% increase to the chance Krakoa fails completely. But Sinister's involvement *check's notes* yup, that's acceptable! (I actually like the idea that Deadpool is that destructive, but I think it would have been better if the order came from Moira: "No precogs!... Also, no loving Wade. Seriously.")
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Dec 17, 2020 13:58
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https://twitter.com/rdauterman/status/1339605782313111552  Storm's hat!
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Dec 17, 2020 17:30
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radlum posted:X-Force continues to be pretty good; I dreaded it when it started, but now it's been pretty at being what it is, a chance for Beast to show how much of a dick he is. I'm really enjoying that every time Beast says something along the lines of "I've got this under control" it serves the same purpose as a "dun, dun, duuuun" musical stinger.
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Dec 17, 2020 19:32
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Flying Zamboni posted:I'm really enjoying that every time Beast says something along the lines of "I've got this under control" it serves the same purpose as a "dun, dun, duuuun" musical stinger. beast in X-Force is bubsy looking into the camera and asking "What could pawsibly go wrong?"
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Dec 17, 2020 19:37
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Alaois posted:beast in X-Force is bubsy looking into the camera and asking "What could pawsibly go wrong?"  Except imagine I photoshopped Beast as the pilot and the rest of X-Force as the Simpsons
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Dec 18, 2020 00:12
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I love this.
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Dec 18, 2020 01:27
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Are we getting any more Giant Size one shots?
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Dec 18, 2020 01:31
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Giant Size ended with Storm.
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Dec 18, 2020 02:13
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At what point did Beast become such a total dickhead? I used to like him a lot, albeit mostly because of the animated series, but looking holistically at the character in the comics it feels kinda like from the legacy virus on, he begins this long, increasingly demented progression from being a jovial scienceman to the increasingly sullen tony stark of genetics. It's kind of hard to imagine that the same character who is running the mutant CIA in X-Force is the guy who was the Avenger's resident comedian.
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Dec 18, 2020 05:48
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OnimaruXLR posted:At what point did Beast become such a total dickhead? I used to like him a lot, albeit mostly because of the animated series, but looking holistically at the character in the comics it feels kinda like from the legacy virus on, he begins this long, increasingly demented progression from being a jovial scienceman to the increasingly sullen tony stark of genetics. It's kind of hard to imagine that the same character who is running the mutant CIA in X-Force is the guy who was the Avenger's resident comedian. 
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Dec 18, 2020 05:58
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My problem is that he routinely does these incredibly dumb things that seem like they should be absolutely detrimental to the health and security of Krakoa but everyone just...keeps on letting him do this stuff? Like it's fine because he's just so pragmatic and ruthless or whatever? You can't just be ruthless if your plans keep failing! Your ruthless plans have to actually work!
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Dec 18, 2020 06:10
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Look man, Krakoa only has like 3 laws, and he ain't breaking any of them...technically.
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Dec 18, 2020 06:14
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OnimaruXLR posted:At what point did Beast become such a total dickhead? I used to like him a lot, albeit mostly because of the animated series, but looking holistically at the character in the comics it feels kinda like from the legacy virus on, he begins this long, increasingly demented progression from being a jovial scienceman to the increasingly sullen tony stark of genetics. It's kind of hard to imagine that the same character who is running the mutant CIA in X-Force is the guy who was the Avenger's resident comedian. It started with Utopia where he starts making GBS threads on Scott and his methods, like how he recruited Magneto and allowed other former villains to stay with them since Decimation reduced their numbers. He was also mad that Norman Osborn captured him and he wasn't rescued right away. Then he gets worse and worse and more hypocritical, like the time in Secret Avengers where he helps build a bomb that kills a planet or something. So ever since then he's just been this hypocrite since he's been doing terrible poo poo but then always acts like he knows better and isn't doing anything worse than anyone else.
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Dec 18, 2020 07:39
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BrianWilly posted:My problem is that he routinely does these incredibly dumb things that seem like they should be absolutely detrimental to the health and security of Krakoa but everyone just...keeps on letting him do this stuff? Like it's fine because he's just so pragmatic and ruthless or whatever? I dunno, American foreign policy since the 1950s is a pretty good example of ruthless plans that keep failing without producing a meaningful change in either the planning or the planners. Also most domestic policy since the 1980s, and an increasing amount of foreign and domestic policymaking around the world. I actually think that's the out-of-story reason why Beast is steadily getting more evil/incompetent - it reflects a growing distrust of experts (or "experts") who keep totally botching everything.
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Dec 18, 2020 08:45
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Ponsonby Britt posted:I dunno, American foreign policy since the 1950s is a pretty good example of ruthless plans that keep failing without producing a meaningful change in either the planning or the planners. Also most domestic policy since the 1980s, and an increasing amount of foreign and domestic policymaking around the world. I actually think that's the out-of-story reason why Beast is steadily getting more evil/incompetent - it reflects a growing distrust of experts (or "experts") who keep totally botching everything. If anything, Beast still has the moral high ground compared to what the actual CIA would do in similar situations. The CIA would kidnap, torture and interrogate everyone who says Colossus deserved an apology for what happened to him.
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Dec 18, 2020 09:06
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Someone once wrote a pretty great Beast timeline here, I wish I had saved a link to it. I dunno it made sense where he ended up but also seemed to be a pretty clear case of every writer feeling they needed to raise the bar.
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Dec 18, 2020 10:04
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Rick posted:Someone once wrote a pretty great Beast timeline here, I wish I had saved a link to it. Honestly, everyone involved in X-Factor at the start was loving sus for becoming a weird fascist villain but only Hank and Warren (when he's Archangel) get called out on it.
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Dec 18, 2020 10:11
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Codependent Poster posted:It started with Utopia where he starts making GBS threads on Scott and his methods, like how he recruited Magneto and allowed other former villains to stay with them since Decimation reduced their numbers. He was also mad that Norman Osborn captured him and he wasn't rescued right away. Then he gets worse and worse and more hypocritical, like the time in Secret Avengers where he helps build a bomb that kills a planet or something. So ever since then he's just been this hypocrite since he's been doing terrible poo poo but then always acts like he knows better and isn't doing anything worse than anyone else. I think it starts back a lot further than that. You get shades of it in the original X-Factor, even; not a total transformation but a move away from the class clown role. He gets real hosed up in the 90s with getting impersonated by Dark Beast and spending a lot of time failing to cure the Legacy Virus, then Morrison takes him in a more mopey direction and after that we get Decimation. XMTAS Beast is the definitive version for a lot of people, myself included, but it's not really based on anything in the comics. He's not a clown, he's an absent-minded professor type. I still wish they had had the guts to actually take Beast in an outright villainous direction. I don't remember much of it but I think Inhumans vs X-Men took steps in that direction but then successive writers stepped him back from the brink.
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Dec 18, 2020 12:04
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Rochallor posted:I think it starts back a lot further than that. You get shades of it in the original X-Factor, even; not a total transformation but a move away from the class clown role. He gets real hosed up in the 90s with getting impersonated by Dark Beast and spending a lot of time failing to cure the Legacy Virus, then Morrison takes him in a more mopey direction and after that we get Decimation. Eh, an outright villainous Beast is just Dark Beast, very dumb smart guy is a really good lane for him. I can figure out a quick solution to almost any problem but don't understand the concept of "blow back" is a lot more fun characterization.
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Dec 18, 2020 12:18
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Codependent Poster posted:It started with Utopia where he starts making GBS threads on Scott and his methods, like how he recruited Magneto and allowed other former villains to stay with them since Decimation reduced their numbers. He was also mad that Norman Osborn captured him and he wasn't rescued right away. Then he gets worse and worse and more hypocritical, like the time in Secret Avengers where he helps build a bomb that kills a planet or something. So ever since then he's just been this hypocrite since he's been doing terrible poo poo but then always acts like he knows better and isn't doing anything worse than anyone else. I'd say it started even earlier, with his back up story before Messiah Complex. The one where he works with Dark Beast as they go about the globe consulting all the geneticist super villains. That started him on the end justifies the means stories.
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Dec 18, 2020 12:26
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Speaking of Dark Beast, is he on Krakoa? Has he come up at all since Hicksmen started?
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Dec 18, 2020 13:01
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krakoa was a second chance for almost every mutant (sorry maddie), including beast who wasn't particularly welcome among the x-men any more. beast used this clean slate to double down on the poo poo that got him in trouble, because despite all evidence to the contrary he is supremely confident in always being right. beast never considered that he should change his ways, or even why he might want to. as for why he continues to get so much leeway, it's because no one on krakoa has been particularly inclined to call out shitheads for being shitheads. again, new beginning and all that. hank gets the same consideration as sinister, but like sinister everyone is getting real tired of his poo poo.
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Dec 18, 2020 13:05
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"A beast who thought he was a man" It's been a slow, sloooow process, but Hank has been written unhinged for so many years by various different writers, that it's been part of his character since forever. The point seems to be always the same: he has good intentions, but fucks up everything he tries to do because he's so clever and knows best. If he's ever going to be redeemed, he's going to need a huge intervention story of some sort. nemesis_hub posted:Speaking of Dark Beast, is he on Krakoa? Has he come up at all since Hicksmen started? He got killed just before HoX and I rather doubt anyone in the Council is considering bringing him back.
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Dec 18, 2020 13:25
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"No Clones" "But he's not a clone, he's beast from an alternate dimension!" "Sounds like clone talk to me"
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Dec 18, 2020 14:00
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Mister Sinister probably has the monopoly on genetic tampering on Krakoa, possibly granted as a concession to prevent him from betraying everyone. (Ha.)
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Dec 18, 2020 14:05
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since every line gets their own big synergy team up(s), will we get a line-voltron ultra-synergy crossover event? or are they more like infrastructure that defines future x-men stories?
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Dec 18, 2020 14:57
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A big turning point for Beast, I think, was Morrison using him as the villain in their last arc, a dystopian future thing in which Beast was driven to desperation by his desire to help mutants and wound up becoming a vessel for Sublime. Like a lot of the stuff Morrison did in their run, it seemed like an extension, if a somewhat hyperbolic one, of tendencies already going on beneath the surface of the x-books for years. The 90s were not kind to Hank McCoy in terms of making him a dynamic character. I personally blame a lot of this on how the scale of the Legacy Virus as a problem for mutants clashed with the complete lack of planning or long-term plans any writers had for dealing with it. This meant that characters who had the means to work on it were just always working on it (Beast, Moira, etc.) but never allowed to get anywhere. It's very frustrating reading 90s X-comics (for a lot of reasons, but...) because you'll keep getting little snippets of Beast toiling away in his lab and then the stinger being that he has a sudden mysterious revelation about the virus.... which, of course, never pays off and is never followed up on. He was a victim of poor story-telling and sloppy editing more than anything else. This meant that Dark Beast was kind of a breath of fresh air when he appeared, if only because he was allowed to actually set a goal and do something to achieve it, even if, as a bad guy, he was foiled more often than not. It was an accidental consequence of a period of pretty bad comics that the evil Beast, who had usurped a beloved character's role, wound up being a more dynamic and active character, which translates naturally into being a more interesting and satisfying character to read about. What this meant was that by the mid-aughts, readers had almost 15 years of stories in which Beast was either boring, evil, or, per Morrison's (imo very interesting) take tragically conflicted and on a morally ambiguous trajectory. You had little pops of other directions here and there-- Claremont wrote a very classic Beast in his brief return to the X-titles, and I would call his Beast one of the real highlights of a frustrating and brief tenure-- but in my opinion Morrison inherited a character in a bad narrative position and like almost everything about their run subsequent writers missed the point with their Beast and took the character in really weird follow-up directions. It's not all bad though. I think Gillen wrote a really charming and likeable Beast in S.W.O.R.D. and I think most of the time Young Beast was well-written, an attempt to lay more organic groundwork for Adult Beast's more ominous turn. How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Dec 18, 2020 |
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Dec 18, 2020 19:00
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How Wonderful! posted:It's very frustrating reading 90s X-comics Speaking of: I started semi-regular book-club-via-Zoom meetings with friends as we re-read the post-Claremont X-Events as a way to read stuff over the eras I wasn't paying attention to. We just chatted about Fatal Attractions last night and... the immediate post-Claremont stuff is something. And by "something" I mean a meandering mess filled with (mostly) bad art and poorly executed attempts at Claremont's dramatic language. It sucks because so many interesting things could be explored but instead they spent the first two years just rehashing the same Magneto story twice- both of which ended Magneto as a threat. In addition, I reread some of the more well-regarded stories in this period (the X-Factor psychologist issue; the Jubilee-Illyana issue) and I think those hold up. They're just clearly the exceptions in this era rather than the rule. And I understand the editorial control here was strong and these events were probably mandated things, but... Jesus they're badly executed.
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Dec 18, 2020 19:16
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