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Grump posted:btw I asked this because I just took 5 hours on a "2-3" hour assignment and sent it in unpolished (but functional) and told them I thought this was too much for a take home. the same reason they get off on drilling candidates on obscure trivia they're rear end in a top hat  s who shouldn't be anywhere near the hiring process
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Dec 15, 2020 02:05
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PIZZA.BAT posted:the same reason they get off on drilling candidates on obscure trivia whiteboarding sucks because it is high pressure and very on the spot, but i think every job interview where i actually got an offer, accepted it, and enjoyed working there involved talking through things and a whiteboard-ish interview. that may be because of what I do* but it seems pretty universal to me. i think takehome tests don’t tell you what it is like to actually work with someone. they tell you weather someone understood a problem on first reading the same way you understood it and then came up with a solution similar to yours. when you actually have to work on a project, understand a spec, and work with people to implement it and make sure it works, it is a lot more about communication and making completely sure you understand the details. i spend most of my time writing detailed descriptions of edge cases and how I think the design should handle them, why my test handles them differently, and then asking if the person who wrote the actual design agrees, and then deciding which path to take. most of the bugs are caught in where the spec is just slightly too vague and we both had a reasonable understanding of what was supposed to happen, but filled in some implied details differently. a whiteboard problem where you both work it out together tells you a lot about that process, about working with these people and how they handle questions and criticism, and a takehome test tells you absolutely jack poo poo because you are solving a problem by yourself in a vacuum and that never happens in the real world. * i do verification for hardware designs so i can’t really speak for software stuff, but I feel like a lot of it applies. my understanding of the software world is that you call what I do QA and you don’t do very much of it, which makes sense when you can push an update, but in the hardware world, verification is expensive because you probably can’t fix a chip you have already shipped, and if you can fix it with a software update, it’s going to make performance worse and customers angry.
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Dec 15, 2020 02:59
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ikanreed posted:God, why do a personality test. They should just get your sign and use that. I am 100% convinced that those tests are to give justification for circumventing discrimination laws
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Dec 15, 2020 03:16
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Current company was on a unicorn growth path with an engineering culture to be super jealous of. Three years later our valuation fell off a cliff, we've lost all the awesome engineers and engineering culture, and we recently got acquired by Generic Software Incorporated. Can't wait to get sold for parts.  Now that my belief that good companies exist has vanished, I shall begin this new job search. Hello thread.
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Dec 15, 2020 03:52
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PIZZA.BAT posted:the same reason they get off on drilling candidates on obscure trivia Rather than ascribing malintent I think it's generally more likely that the person who setup the homework did a version of it that quickly. If you're writing the problem you also have a pretty good idea how to solve it which cuts out all the design time and you probably have an environment already setup too. The person in question probably also did a trash job because they just needed it to work and if you could give them their own work they'd probably fail it.
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Dec 15, 2020 04:00
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huhu posted:Current company was on a unicorn growth path with an engineering culture to be super jealous of. Three years later our valuation fell off a cliff, we've lost all the awesome engineers and engineering culture, and we recently got acquired by Generic Software Incorporated. Can't wait to get sold for parts. just went through the exact same thing and am starting my new job in january. the thread continues to cycle
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Dec 15, 2020 04:07
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asur posted:Rather than ascribing malintent I think it's generally more likely that the person who setup the homework did a version of it that quickly. If you're writing the problem you also have a pretty good idea how to solve it which cuts out all the design time and you probably have an environment already setup too. The person in question probably also did a trash job because they just needed it to work and if you could give them their own work they'd probably fail it. I think this is probably close to the mark. my job is to write software, not write puzzles for job applicants. I've been asked to do the latter and managed to talk my manager into skipping it as part of the application process, but it's not like I'm given any more time to get my actual work done if I take on putting together a thoughtful and reasonable toy application for a take-home.
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Dec 15, 2020 04:40
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I had a job interview where the take home was 2h to make a 20min talk about some process relevant to the position to all people who felt it was relevant and wanted to drop in, and then 20 mins of questions. To be fair part of the job had to do with training and internal advocacy but that was the only time I ever saw that
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Dec 15, 2020 05:26
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the interview for my current job didn't involve any whiteboard coding. that's a major reason why i took the job. i figured maybe they weren't idiots. not sure if i was right tho
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Dec 15, 2020 05:29
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asur posted:Rather than ascribing malintent I think it's generally more likely that the person who setup the homework did a version of it that quickly. If you're writing the problem you also have a pretty good idea how to solve it which cuts out all the design time and you probably have an environment already setup too. The person in question probably also did a trash job because they just needed it to work and if you could give them their own work they'd probably fail it. i 100% think this is it. The dev writes up some assignment, the hiring manager asks how long it should take, the dev goes "uhhhhhhhh.....idk? X hours?" and then that's how a candidate gets hosed.
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Dec 15, 2020 05:41
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I now have to implement a hashmap-indexed adjacency-list directed weighted graph in plain C and use it to solve a fairly complex problem in a timed environment and it's like eh, we'll see I'm sure if I was a recent grad or into hackerrank or that sort of thing I'd have an easier time, but that's how it goes e: ran out of time on the last problem, though I did get most of it done honestly would have been fairly trivial in C++ but algorithm problems involving complex data structures is not fun to do in C under a strict time limit Private Speech fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Dec 15, 2020 |
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Dec 15, 2020 13:41
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Private Speech posted:I now have to implement a hashmap-indexed adjacency-list directed weighted graph in plain C is this something you would actually be expected to do on the job? does anyone do this poo poo besides library authors?
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Dec 15, 2020 23:14
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DELETE CASCADE posted:is this something you would actually be expected to do on the job? does anyone do this poo poo besides library authors? I mean it's an embedded position that asked for C, C++ and Python, with a problem in each (the C being the hardest one), and I could see myself implementing a hashing function at some point on an MCU, but it's extremely rare as far as the problem goes it does help that you know the data size during input parsing and it will not ever expand, but you do have to sort the index hashmap afterwards (I never got to that point, but it shouldn't be that bad honestly since you don't need to keep the original structure and can just do in-place swaps) you also had to do a BFS-type lookup on each node as part of the problem, ideally with a stack but I just ended up doing recursion to save some time, not that it helped I could definitely have done it in C++ but, well, clearly I couldn't in 90 mins in C Private Speech fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Dec 15, 2020 |
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Dec 15, 2020 23:19
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i hope that position pays like $300k+. i couldn't have done that in 90 minutes either
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Dec 15, 2020 23:26
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DELETE CASCADE posted:i hope that position pays like $300k+. i couldn't have done that in 90 minutes either if this hell world has taught me anything it's that positions like this are in bumfuck nowhere paying a "really good for the area we promise"
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Dec 15, 2020 23:28
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it's advertised as £60k which is actually really good for the UK outside London I'd probably get less on account of not enough experience but still it's the highest of all the jobs I've applied to
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Dec 15, 2020 23:30
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Private Speech posted:I now have to implement a hashmap-indexed adjacency-list directed weighted graph in plain C and use it to solve a fairly complex problem in a timed environment and it's like is this kind of algorithm knowledge needed for most job interviews? I know that FB/google put you through that leetcode poo poo, but is it common? I've had lots of coding tests in the past, but never a "gotcha if you don't already know this algorithm" test.
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Dec 16, 2020 00:15
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Poopernickel posted:is this kind of algorithm knowledge needed for most job interviews? Loads of places have no clue what they're looking for let alone need, so why not copy someone successful?
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Dec 16, 2020 00:21
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Poopernickel posted:is this kind of algorithm knowledge needed for most job interviews? this is the first genuinely difficult one for me, but I've had some simple graph and algo problems before it's not really a gotcha to be fair, more like implement these data structures, parse this series of weighted edges into a graph then do some computations on it, it's not horrible aside from the time taken FWIW it looks like this is literally a problem that has been used at google at some point, when I google (heh) it Private Speech fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Dec 16, 2020 |
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Dec 16, 2020 00:58
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Google asks a ton of random questions that are absolutely ridiculous because someone came up with the bright idea to let engineers come up with their own questions with zero standardization. It's supposedly not uncommon for the hiring committee to just completely disregard an interview because the question that was asked is unreasonable. It doesn't sound like this question should have been asked with a stipulation that the person use C, a language with next to no inbuilt libraries. I also wouldn't expect to every implement a hashing function or a hashmap in an interview.
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Dec 16, 2020 01:08
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I don't think that stipulation existed with the original problem at google, that was added by the company I'm interviewing with, on account of it being an embedded C position I mentioned in feedback that I would have an easier time doing it in C++ (obviously, given the problem) I mean I haven't heard back yet so maybe I did okay? Private Speech fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Dec 16, 2020 |
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Dec 16, 2020 01:10
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after pandemic-related layoffs in june, today i signed an offer letter. the relief is real  at least there's some bit of positivity to end on in hell year before we begin hell year 2
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Dec 16, 2020 23:28
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Flaming June posted:after pandemic-related layoffs in june, today i signed an offer letter. the relief is real hoorj
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Dec 17, 2020 00:17
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Flaming June posted:after pandemic-related layoffs in june, today i signed an offer letter. the relief is real congrats! hoping some of that rubs off on me and I'll get one soon
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Dec 17, 2020 02:28
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business formal or casual for a zoom call with the hiring manager and director of engineering?
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Dec 17, 2020 21:46
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dragon enthusiast posted:business formal or casual for a zoom call with the hiring manager and director of engineering? which coast? how formal is the org? default business casual unless something like a bank, insurance, etc.
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Dec 17, 2020 22:04
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dragon enthusiast posted:business formal or casual for a zoom call with the hiring manager and director of engineering? business casual from the waist up office party from the waist down
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Dec 17, 2020 22:21
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What's the zoom call equivalent of a strong handshake, do that.
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Dec 17, 2020 22:28
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unpacked robinhood posted:What's the zoom call equivalent of a strong handshake, do that. zoom background of a cat floating in space
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Dec 17, 2020 23:16
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PCjr sidecar posted:which coast? how formal is the org? east coast, i would definitely be doing business formal for an in person interview but pre-rona daily work would be business casual for sure
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Dec 18, 2020 00:05
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unpacked robinhood posted:What's the zoom call equivalent of a strong handshake, do that.
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Dec 18, 2020 00:07
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I've been doing business casual and usually am either on par or better dressed than the interviewer but then this is the UK and I haven't got a job yet so I felt like giving advice might be going a bit far
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Dec 18, 2020 00:15
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dragon enthusiast posted:business formal or casual for a zoom call with the hiring manager and director of engineering? If it's an old-school firm, shirt and tie, no jacket. If it's newer, lightly-patterned button down khakis+belt in either case in case you stand up in front of the mic.
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Dec 18, 2020 00:18
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PCjr sidecar posted:which coast? how formal is the org? ask your internal recruiter what the preferred dress code is
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Dec 18, 2020 00:32
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Captain Foo posted:ask your internal recruiter what the preferred dress code is good advice in general but i asked a internal recruiter at a health insurance company this and they were like what kind of moron are you to not know you need a suit
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Dec 18, 2020 00:57
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PCjr sidecar posted:good advice in general but i asked a internal recruiter at a health insurance company this and they were like what kind of moron are you to not know you need a suit this was a bad recruiter and probably an idiot. don't worry too much about it. it's a harmless question
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Dec 18, 2020 01:57
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like ask yourself if you'd be upset missing out on a job where they passed over you because you asked that
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Dec 18, 2020 01:58
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i sort of remember seeing an article on to how to value stock options as part of an offer - does anyone have a guide or something that they like? i've only ever worked for places that gave cash or RSUs so i'm not exactly sure how to value the options part of an offer that's coming my way soon (lol it's pre-ipo, so value them at 0)
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Dec 18, 2020 16:00
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The Leck posted:(lol it's pre-ipo, so value them at 0) This is the right answer
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Dec 18, 2020 16:04
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Getting options from a pre-IPO organization is like getting a bunch of lottery tickets that all have the same number. They're not completely worthless, but you shouldn't count on seeing any money from them.
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Dec 18, 2020 16:14
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