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scaterry
Sep 12, 2012

Sing Along posted:

I'm doing this but I'm seeing achievements listed as greyed on the Play screen out even though on my second character at the bottom of the creator they appear viable

Yeah, if you create more than one character in ruler designer, it invalidates achievements. The devs thought of this...

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Broken Cog
Dec 29, 2009

We're all friends here
Ah, drat, seems you're right. I didn't think to check if it disables achievements since I'm playing with some mods right now, my bad.

Baron Porkface
Jan 22, 2007


What is the gameplay benefit of seduction?

Tender Bender
Sep 17, 2004

The same as irl: you get to gently caress

Magil Zeal
Nov 24, 2008

Baron Porkface posted:

What is the gameplay benefit of seduction?

In addition to generating extra kids if you want to, lovers are somewhat useful in that they don't join factions against you. It's a legitimate tactic to play as a beautiful liege and seduce your vassals, especially the more powerful ones, to some extent.

Baron Porkface
Jan 22, 2007


Is it easier to kill lovers?

scaterry
Sep 12, 2012

Baron Porkface posted:

Is it easier to kill lovers?

Yes, it confers a small benefit. (+15% success chance) Choosing to seduce their spymaster will have a much bigger impact, though. (A spymaster joining as an agent is +75+intrigue% success chance)

Trevor Hale
Dec 8, 2008

What have I become, my Swedish friend?

scaterry posted:

Yes, it confers a small benefit. (+15% success chance) Choosing to seduce their spymaster will have a much bigger impact, though. (A spymaster joining as an agent is +75+intrigue% success chance)

One of my favorite feelings in the game is when I kick off a murder plot and SO MANY PEOPLE join in. Just a joy to know that so many people want this rear end in a top hat dead.

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist
So turns out "you're gonna die" alert is not a guarantee. My ruler had an infected wound and botched healing but held on till the wound healed

Also I thought that dynastic stuff was overcomplicated because you as a player will always play as a dynasty or house head anyway. But then I've started playing as Ivar Ragnarson. He has his own house, but my two kingdoms were inhereted by his nephew, son of Sigurd the king of Sweden. And now I no longer have my own house and can't even create it. Or I can't find it.

Also I've played as unreformed tribals more than feudal rulers and they always feel like a proper tutorial to me. You get cheap CBs, you can use prestige to pay for a lot of stuff, your ruler should always focus on martial, developed enemies suffer attrition in your lands, there's even +5 combat bonus for being unreformed for some reason. But oh boy, do Vikings feel like perfect tribals. Human sacrifice means your ruler can sacrifice all the wrong religion captives and mantain high dread. Cheap ships. Scandinavian inheretance basically meaning you can keep an empire united. What's not to like?

Neurion
Jun 3, 2013

The musical fruit
The more you eat
The more you hoot

Trevor Hale posted:

One of my favorite feelings in the game is when I kick off a murder plot and SO MANY PEOPLE join in. Just a joy to know that so many people want this rear end in a top hat dead.

My favorite little thing I did recently was start as the last living Karling in 1066, modify my feudal contract for unrestricted war declaration (fun fact: you don't even need a hook, just trade your war privileges for something paltry like higher taxes. You can make a lot more money off of blackmail than from your domain early on.) From there I started beating up other vassals, bigger and bigger until I held the duchies of Valois and Champagne and was the strongest vassal. Next I fabricated a claim on France... And would ya look at that, the french heir has two sinful traits! A quick murder plot and suddenly the french king is looking very unpopular, while my claimant faction has 300+% power because everyone hates the new sinful child king. Press my demands and boom: Karling Consolidation.

Game owns.

Sing Along
Feb 28, 2017

by Athanatos

scaterry posted:

Yes, it confers a small benefit. (+15% success chance) Choosing to seduce their spymaster will have a much bigger impact, though. (A spymaster joining as an agent is +75+intrigue% success chance)

How can you identify members of another character's council?

Vichan
Oct 1, 2014

I'LL PUNISH YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR CRIME
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2326030123

Godherja is out!

scaterry
Sep 12, 2012

Sing Along posted:

How can you identify members of another character's council?

It's kinda annoying. If they're just a courtier, it'll tell you below their name what role they have (their liege's steward). If they're a vassal, it won't. So in that case, you need to look at their natural dread to see if they have a modifier (liege's spymaster). However, the AI pretty much always picks a powerful vassal to be on the council, which narrows it down.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Neurion posted:

My favorite little thing I did recently was start as the last living Karling in 1066, modify my feudal contract for unrestricted war declaration (fun fact: you don't even need a hook, just trade your war privileges for something paltry like higher taxes. You can make a lot more money off of blackmail than from your domain early on.) From there I started beating up other vassals, bigger and bigger until I held the duchies of Valois and Champagne and was the strongest vassal. Next I fabricated a claim on France... And would ya look at that, the french heir has two sinful traits! A quick murder plot and suddenly the french king is looking very unpopular, while my claimant faction has 300+% power because everyone hates the new sinful child king. Press my demands and boom: Karling Consolidation.

Game owns.

This is good advice, but the privilege you should give up is higher levies. While the tax increase you'd pay is small, it's still useful cash you're giving up. Giving up levies on the other hand is fine, they're effectively useless anyway.

ToxicAcne
May 25, 2014
I've been thinking lately about the religion reform mechanic, and I wonder if it would be more faithful to the games mechanics to have the reformation be a big council meeting of powerful vassals and priests. They would then propose different reforms or be resistant to them based on their personal characteristics. It seems to me a much better way to handle it than having one dude unilaterally change a set of beliefs due to having a lot of points in piety, and it would engage with what I think is the main point of the game.

Edit: Regurgitating a commonly held opinion on this thread, but I feel like as you get bigger, more and more of your attention and effort should be promoted towards keeping your realm together. Winning a civil war should feel as satisfying as blobbing.

ToxicAcne fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Dec 19, 2020

binge crotching
Apr 2, 2010

PittTheElder posted:

This is good advice, but the privilege you should give up is higher levies. While the tax increase you'd pay is small, it's still useful cash you're giving up. Giving up levies on the other hand is fine, they're effectively useless anyway.

I always do forced partition early game. Unless you're one of the cultures that gets early access to a single heir, you're stuck in partition until the 1100s for Seniority, and 1200s for Primogeniture.

Trevor Hale
Dec 8, 2008

What have I become, my Swedish friend?

Just finished my first custom ruler game. Started as a welsh count in 1066. Ended as empress of Britain, France, Italy, and Spain.

What am i proudest of? Putting my daughter on the throne of Jerusalem in 1100 and the game ending in 1452 with an expanded Jerusalem kingdom never having lost its welsh culture or my family line in 352 years. That tickles me.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

binge crotching posted:

I always do forced partition early game. Unless you're one of the cultures that gets early access to a single heir, you're stuck in partition until the 1100s for Seniority, and 1200s for Primogeniture.

Oh yeah this is absolutely correct. I was doing it so reflexively I didn't even think it it when I wrote that post. The best trade-offs I think are:


  1. Forced Partition for Revocation of Titles
  2. Increased Levies for Unsanctioned War (maybe even just lower taxes, Liberty factions make avoiding Medium authority very easy)
  3. Massive Levies for Lower Taxes

Trevor Hale
Dec 8, 2008

What have I become, my Swedish friend?

PittTheElder posted:

Oh yeah this is absolutely correct. I was doing it so reflexively I didn't even think it it when I wrote that post. The best trade-offs I think are:


  1. Forced Partition for Revocation of Titles
  2. Increased Levies for Unsanctioned War (maybe even just lower taxes, Liberty factions make avoiding Medium authority very easy)
  3. Massive Levies for Lower Taxes

Oh wow. I never noticed forced partition before. God that would’ve saved me so much grief with some rear end in a top hat ducal families.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

It's not actually a particularly meaningful concession is the point. As a player liege you're better off just skipping it, avoiding the -5 opinion modifier, and revoking titles from people as required.

As a liege you want to make absolutely sure you're making at least normal taxes from everyone, nobody has special privileges, and giving away all their levies to get it (enjoy clicking through all their contracts one by one).

Magil Zeal
Nov 24, 2008

I feel like the math supports giving Coinage Rights to vassals managing lands of your culture. Especially counts that you can transfer to dukes. A base value is probably more valuable than a % that can be offset by a city building.

binge crotching
Apr 2, 2010

PittTheElder posted:

Oh yeah this is absolutely correct. I was doing it so reflexively I didn't even think it it when I wrote that post. The best trade-offs I think are:


  1. Forced Partition for Revocation of Titles
  2. Increased Levies for Unsanctioned War (maybe even just lower taxes, Liberty factions make avoiding Medium authority very easy)
  3. Massive Levies for Lower Taxes

Early on you also want council rights so you can be Steward, and get that +2 gold/month. If you aren't planning on doing anything hostile against your liege with your first ruler (and he doesn't have any claims on you at the start), it can be better to take council rights instead of revocation. If I'm doing ruler designer with the witch trait and a religion that doesn't like witches than I absolutely do revocation, but for anything else I usually I take the +2 gold.

Neurion
Jun 3, 2013

The musical fruit
The more you eat
The more you hoot

binge crotching posted:

Early on you also want council rights so you can be Steward, and get that +2 gold/month. If you aren't planning on doing anything hostile against your liege with your first ruler (and he doesn't have any claims on you at the start), it can be better to take council rights instead of revocation. If I'm doing ruler designer with the witch trait and a religion that doesn't like witches than I absolutely do revocation, but for anything else I usually I take the +2 gold.

Not only +2 gold, but +10% to +20% domain taxes and -10% to -20% building costs based on your liege's rank! It can allow for very rapidly building up your personal economic and military base.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011
The extra intrigue points for being my lieges spymaster was quite helpful while I was murdering his children

Moon Slayer
Jun 19, 2007

Someone give me the highlights of picking guardians for my kids. I keep getting a "despite not showing an aptitude for ..." message when they turn 16 and I'm not sure if I'm getting it because of or in spite of my choices.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

If you have a guardian with an intelligence trait like quick or genius, use them. Otherwise, pick whoever has the highest stat in whatever education you want the kid to have, using the learning stat as a tiebreaker.

FLIPADELPHIA
Apr 27, 2007

Heavy Shit
Grimey Drawer

Hellioning posted:

If you have a guardian with an intelligence trait like quick or genius, use them. Otherwise, pick whoever has the highest stat in whatever education you want the kid to have, using the learning stat as a tiebreaker.

I don't know where the post was previous, but according to their breakdown, Learning stat is quite a bit more useful in helping the tutored kid advance toward a better education. So if you want to train someone in Diplo and have the choice between a 10 Diplo 20 Learning or 20 Diplo 10 Learning, the former is better.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

binge crotching posted:

Early on you also want council rights so you can be Steward, and get that +2 gold/month. If you aren't planning on doing anything hostile against your liege with your first ruler (and he doesn't have any claims on you at the start), it can be better to take council rights instead of revocation. If I'm doing ruler designer with the witch trait and a religion that doesn't like witches than I absolutely do revocation, but for anything else I usually I take the +2 gold.

Oh Jesus yeah that's an excellent point. Yeah that's the actual first privilege you want, being Steward is massive.

Excelzior
Jun 24, 2013

Midgetskydiver posted:

I don't know where the post was previous, but according to their breakdown, Learning stat is quite a bit more useful in helping the tutored kid advance toward a better education. So if you want to train someone in Diplo and have the choice between a 10 Diplo 20 Learning or 20 Diplo 10 Learning, the former is better.

lemme go dig it up

e: here it is

quote:

To maximise your chances of a good education it's important to pick someone suitable for your ward. The following is a quick rundown into the system and how to choose a guardian for your child.

At some point in your childhood you will get a childhood trait. These are randomly assigned to your child and give +1 to two stats. Curious, for example, gives +1 to Diplomacy and +1 Learning.

Later on, you will be able to choose an education focus for your child. The game will default to one of the two from your childhood traits, but you can change this to any other one. To maximise your final education trait you should make sure the focus you chooses aligns with the childhood trait you were assigned. For example if the game assigned a Diplomacy focus on a Curious child, we can change it to learning without being penalised.

If you want to change the education focus you should do it as early as possible and find a new guardian. The game tracks your education progress of each focus separately so if you change your mind you won't be starting from scratch, but you'll need to find a really good guardian to make up for the time lost. Progress is not carried over when you change (and you can only change it once).

If your focus does not match your childhood trait, you are penalised and there is a much higher chance of getting a lower education trait when you come of age.
How the system works

Your child has 5 education levels that are tracked internally (one for each education focus).

If we choose diplomacy as our focus, then the game actively tracks education_diplomacy_variable.

When your child comes of age:

If education_variable >= 15 you will get the level 4 (maximum) education trait.

If 11 >= education_variable < 15 you will get the level 3 education trait.

If 7 >= education_variable < 11 you will get the level 2 education trait.

If education_variable < 7 you will get the level 1 education trait.

Simple enough, but how does the game calculate this variable?

Every year the game rolls a random chance. There are two outcomes: Success or Failure.

If you succeed, the game adds 2 points to your education_variable.

If you fail, the game adds nothing and it stays the same.

By default there is a 60% chance of success, and 40% chance of failure - but there are a whole load of things that can affect this chance.

Having a focus that does not match your childhood trait adds 20 to the failure modifier.

The game uses modifiers to alter the chances of random events dynamically. Adding a 20 modifier to this failure chance means the percentage of getting a failure each year with a focus that does not match your childhood traits becomes (40 + 20) / (60 + 40 + 20) or 50%.

Not having a guardian at all also adds 20 this modifier.

If your child is a genius this adds 20 to the modifier of success (which is 80/120 or 66%). Having a genius child adds 6% to the base chance each year that they will succeed the check and add 2 points to their education variable. Of course as we add more modifiers to this, it will account for slightly less than 6% (when taking into account everything). Intelligent and quick add 15 and 10 respectively.

If your guardian is a genius this adds 15 to the modifier of success (with intelligent and quick being 10/5 respectively). A guardian with Shrewd also adds 5 to this modifier.

The exact same modifiers are applied to the failure chance if your child/guardian have the negative education traits.

If you build a university and send your child to it, the game adds a flat +12 to the final education_variable. This means to get the best trait you only need to pass 3 of these checks. This all but guarantees the best education trait unless your child is really dumb. (Funnily enough when you come of age, and if you attended university, there is a 2% chance to become a drunkard...)

The guardian's religion/culture has no effect on the education level at all. This will only affect the conversion chances if you have chosen them when you appointed them as your guardian.
How to choose a guardian

There are 3 main things to consider for a guardian:

The guardian's Slow / Bright leveled trait. Genius is the best, followed by intelligent and quick as we saw above.

The guardian's skill value in the target focus.

The guardian's learning skill.

The skill of the guardian in the education focus is twice as important as the learning trait. The exact weightings are 0.4 for the skill modifier and 0.2 for the learning skill modifier.

Because of these weightings, this means a genius guardian is worth 37.5 of the focus skill value or 75 of the learning skill. If you see a genius guardian available it's nearly almost worth choosing them regardless of their actual skill values.. A flat 15 to the modifier is equivalent to a 30 focus skill/15 learning skill character, and since the person with the genius trait is going to have some points anyway you are going to be hard pressed to find another character who can come close.

This also means a genius guardian does not have a big of an effect as you might think. It only adds 5.2% to the base chance of a success tick each year. But a flat +15 to the modifier is much harder to get from raw points alone so you should always prioritise genius guardians first and foremost.

One very important thing to bear in mind: make sure you trust whomever you send your child off to. If you don't have a genius in your court/realm, you can of course ship them off to be educated in foreign courts. Although shipping your primary heir off probably isn't the best idea (I personally learned from this hard way when they were assassinated...). It is possible of course that a vassal of your own could kill them, so be careful when sending them away from your own court.

This is best shown with an example (say for a martial focus child):

Say we have a guardian with 20 martial and 10 learning. 20*0.4 + 10*0.2 = 8 + 2 = 10. This guardian will add 10 to the success modifier above.
How to choose a guardian quickly in game

When we're playing we don't really want to be too concerned with these modifiers.

To quickly evaluate two characters to decide who is the best one:

Double the focus skill.

Add this to the learning skill.

The character with the higher combined score is better for your child.

So if we had a 22 martial/10 learning vs a 12 martial/28 learning to choose from.

22*2 + 10 vs 12*2 + 28 = 54 vs 52.

The 22 martial/10 learning is better for your child.



Hopefully this clears up the education system a bit. The education traits are nice, but with the modifiers not having a big of an effect as you might think it's probably not worth min-maxing any more than quickly doing the above calculation to make a choice.

Interestingly enough, the game says this education check should be done every 6 months. But from my own testing I can only see it happening once a year. It's possible it's bugged, or the comments in the game's files might be out of date.

Excelzior fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Dec 21, 2020

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

Midgetskydiver posted:

I don't know where the post was previous, but according to their breakdown, Learning stat is quite a bit more useful in helping the tutored kid advance toward a better education. So if you want to train someone in Diplo and have the choice between a 10 Diplo 20 Learning or 20 Diplo 10 Learning, the former is better.

According to the wiki and every other post I've found the primary stat is twice as good as learning for education.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011
All these statistics are too hard for me and my dumb children

Moon Slayer
Jun 19, 2007

Thanks for the overview. Now, an unrelated question: when making a custom character are you not able to customize your new dynasty's heraldry and motto or did I miss a button somewhere?

binge crotching
Apr 2, 2010

Moon Slayer posted:

Thanks for the overview. Now, an unrelated question: when making a custom character are you not able to customize your new dynasty's heraldry and motto or did I miss a button somewhere?

Not sure about the motto, but there is a button there to cycle through random crests.

Moon Slayer
Jun 19, 2007

Yeah but there isn't any way to customize it, right? Not like CK2 where you could choose every detail.

Moon Slayer
Jun 19, 2007

I just want to make a powerful, noble dynasty that will go down in history for their cunning and acumen whose crest is emblazoned with the motto "Lords of Butts." I am very immature.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011
You can change your motto at any time I’m pretty sure. I’m not sure how to do it but I know there’s a button for it somewhere

A Typical Goon fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Dec 21, 2020

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

A Typical Goon posted:

You can change your motto at any time I’m pretty sure. I’m not sure how to do it but I know there’s a button for it somewhere

It should be right next to the motto in the dynasty screen.

Trevor Hale
Dec 8, 2008

What have I become, my Swedish friend?

Moon Slayer posted:

I just want to make a powerful, noble dynasty that will go down in history for their cunning and acumen whose crest is emblazoned with the motto "Lords of Butts." I am very immature.

Custom heraldry hasn’t been added yet.

Also: make sure your kid has an educator before they turn 6 as the first check is on the 6th birthday. I pretty much stick them with a person the second they develop a personality trait

FLIPADELPHIA
Apr 27, 2007

Heavy Shit
Grimey Drawer

Hellioning posted:

According to the wiki and every other post I've found the primary stat is twice as good as learning for education.

Yep, thank you for correcting my error. Not sure how I came away with the exact wrong takeaway from that post but yeah.

So the focus skill is worth roughly double the learning skill.

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Qubee
May 31, 2013




How do I appease useless powerful vassals wanting positions on my council? I remember reading something about turning powerful people into Dukes as all the vassals beneath them will then quit crying about wanting a council position. I've just done this but the Counts in the Duchy I just gave away to someone useful are still tantruming about it.

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