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I don't believe poo poo unless they post the untranslated japanese and the source. Bullshit rumors are a dime a dozen in the gundam world, always sourcing some Tonino interview or obscure guidebook. Even here every year or so we have people coming in thinking Loran was supposed to be a woman.
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Dec 19, 2020 01:40
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Looks like it's probably legit. Source is from an old production book on zz. Translated by zeonic
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Dec 19, 2020 01:51
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Hmmm while White Reflection rules, Last Impression also rules so I can't decide which is the bettet Endless Waltz song.
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Dec 19, 2020 07:43
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Gaius Marius posted:Looks like it's probably legit. Source is from an old production book on zz. Translated by zeonic I mean, old production books are sometimes more for early plans than final shows (see: The Tomino memos for First Gundam and the recently translated stuff for Zeta's early plans), but Zeonic's generally on the level. Figure that can be relied on more than most. I'd like to see sources linked rather than relying on secondhand information though, if possible.
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Dec 19, 2020 10:54
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That's my bad I copied the link but forgot to add it to my post http://www.zeonic-republic.net/?p=8313
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Dec 19, 2020 11:35
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Gaius Marius posted:That's my bad I copied the link but forgot to add it to my post Thanks. In unrelated news, finally watched the third episode of Victory Gundam. Man, that's a death march of a show, isn't it? It's not that it's grim, exactly. Gundam is grim pretty often. But normally it's shown as something relevant. If someone's, say, acting as a suicide bomber, you get time to know what kind of person would do it, or you see the impact it has on people, or (often) both. In Victory, it's just a thing that happens. You see a Zanscare pilot massacre all resistance, and then he's shot in the back by the local militia after the hero shoots down his MS, and then everyone in town dies and moving on. Amuro's trauma was spaced out so it meant something. Uso just has everything horrible happen in front of him, he freaks out, and then he's back to baseline in time for more trauma. We don't get the emphasis on people doing horrible things as people, but instead we have horrible things just... happening, as if volume could make up for lack of context. I'm also pretty sure that the Gundam's delay was mostly out of spite, because there's nothing narratively interesting about delaying it so long. Uso's stolen MS fulfils the same super prototype plot role that the Gundam normally does. It's just not the design on the posters, so the marketing doesn't benefit. (And when the Gundam shows up, it's not a massive game changer.) Oh, and the visuals continue to have slapstick visual reactions in clearly non-slapstick scenes (I don't think there's a single proper joke in the whole episode.) (Also, Uso's much less of a pilot than I was expecting.)
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Dec 19, 2020 14:05
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chiasaur11 posted:Also, Uso's much less of a pilot than I was expecting. As in, his skill or that he doesn't pilot as often as you expected or what? Uso's actually the first properly trained mobile suit pilot in a Tomino show before he gets in a mobile suit, since Amuro had no experience, Kamille was only used to mini-mobile suits, Judau was used to using civilian mini-mobile suits for junk work and Seabook had no real training and you can see how inexperienced he is when controlling the Guntank (he can't find the pedals properly, stops the unit later than he means to, stutters movements etc). and he just pilots so well in the F91 because the biocomputer means he can control it much more smoothly and intuitively with his mind than normal.
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Dec 19, 2020 14:21
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chiasaur11 posted:All Earth, if memory serves. They really were. You can tell by the way they were designed that her fleet's Graze MS's were clearly intended to be pretty ceremonial machines that look impressive, rather than actual combat equipment.
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Dec 19, 2020 15:58
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chiasaur11 posted:Thanks. Welcome to Victory Gundam, the weird ride that doesn't stop being tonally dissonant for 50 episodes.
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Dec 19, 2020 16:43
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You sort of stand up for the Victory because if you sit down your chair might kill something.
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Dec 19, 2020 17:00
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https://twitter.com/tvtuners/status/1340134571879350273?s=20
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Dec 19, 2020 19:56
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I'm an out of touch old man (by Gundam standards) and have no idea what that reference means.
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Dec 19, 2020 20:23
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tsob posted:I'm an out of touch old man (by Gundam standards) and have no idea what that reference means. & eat hot chip and lie
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Dec 19, 2020 20:38
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tsob posted:I'm an out of touch old man (by Gundam standards) and have no idea what that reference means. 
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Dec 19, 2020 20:42
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I hosed up my ampersand placement, drat
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Dec 19, 2020 20:44
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tsob posted:As in, his skill or that he doesn't pilot as often as you expected or what? Uso's actually the first properly trained mobile suit pilot in a Tomino show before he gets in a mobile suit, since Amuro had no experience, Kamille was only used to mini-mobile suits, Judau was used to using civilian mini-mobile suits for junk work and Seabook had no real training and you can see how inexperienced he is when controlling the Guntank (he can't find the pedals properly, stops the unit later than he means to, stutters movements etc). and he just pilots so well in the F91 because the biocomputer means he can control it much more smoothly and intuitively with his mind than normal. Skill, mostly. I've seen hype, but he's not showing off like early Amuro. Even when Amuro was a flailing incompetent, he managed to take two on one odds from Zeon line pilots on his own. It was partially the suit, sure, but random mook pilots stopped being a threat to Amuro pretty early on. By contrast, Uso needed to be bailed out by the Gundam when he was up against two Gene tier pilots, and didn't even manage to secure his kills. I'm taking it on faith that Uso uses cool tactics with the Gundam once he gets it, but everything I've seen says he never gets the Amuro or Mikazuki style force of nature treatment. He's just, at best, the most capable pilot on the field, not a monster who trivializes everyone else enough that it's a mark of skill not to be killed instantly.
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Dec 19, 2020 22:34
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chiasaur11 posted:Skill, mostly. Uso is a very imperfect pilot. He comes across (in a weirdly prescient way) as a kid who plays way too many videogames and has trouble with basic communication and teamwork. Even through the end of the series he's doing all sorts of technically impressive attacks and maneuvers while leaving his allies exposed or cleaning up his messes. The semi-disposable nature of the mass produced Victory parts leads to some audacious stuff of a style unlike other protagonist pilots.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfhPVV05bj0 Maarak fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Dec 19, 2020 |
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Dec 19, 2020 22:59
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chiasaur11 posted:Skill, mostly. I wouldn't call Uso a force of nature style like Mikazuki or Amuro really.
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Dec 19, 2020 23:03
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I'm not sure it wasn't the suit in Amuro's initial fights. Like when he gets into close combat he wins because the gundam can literally rip the Zaku apart with pure mechanical strength. It moves faster, harder and can take direct hits from anything but a beam.
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Dec 20, 2020 01:59
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Regarde Aduck posted:I'm not sure it wasn't the suit in Amuro's initial fights. Like when he gets into close combat he wins because the gundam can literally rip the Zaku apart with pure mechanical strength. It moves faster, harder and can take direct hits from anything but a beam. It was both. Amuro shows natural aptitude in the Gundam and is able to outmanuver the Zaku but he also would have been fuckin' dead before the Gundam even stood up if it couldn't take more damage. Amuro was noted as skilled from the start which is why he even ended up keeping the Gundam. A theme early on is that the Zeon forces are not entirely clear how much of the Gundam's danger is the unit and how much is the pilot and end up overestimating the unit itself.
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Dec 20, 2020 02:06
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He tanked so many shots to the face and a Char kick before he was able to kill stuff at will.
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Dec 20, 2020 02:08
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Amuro's greatest strength was reading the manual.
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Dec 20, 2020 02:11
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Regarde Aduck posted:I'm not sure it wasn't the suit in Amuro's initial fights. Like when he gets into close combat he wins because the gundam can literally rip the Zaku apart with pure mechanical strength. It moves faster, harder and can take direct hits from anything but a beam. It definitely wasn't just the suit, and by episode 3 he's the one suggesting to Ryu that they attack from in front of the Sun so it'll block them from sight as long as possible, for instance, showing a good grasp of tactics. More importantly, he's also tracking multiple targets even in the midst of combat with Char, and able to use his off-hand to destroy a Zaku II that attempts to attack him from behind using a second beam saber, while still in combat with Char in episode 3. Now, the Gundam's superior reaction times etc. can still be given some of the success in scenes like that, but Amuro himself was definitely part of the equation too and he's already showing a cool head, good situational awareness and a good grasp of the controls only a few episodes in to the show. I don't think a lot of Zeon's pilots could dual wield that quickly and effectively, frankly. Which kind of makes sense, since in the original show, the confrontation with the Gundam in episode one is the first time mobile suits have ever directly fought instead of taking on ships or planes, so everyone else is scrambling to learn a lot of the same stuff Amuro is at the time. Other shows have placed the first combat between suits earlier in the war, but in 0079 itself, that is it. Spelling Mitsake posted:Amuro's greatest strength was reading the manual. Nah, it was his dedication driven by a desire to prove himself. He talks to an officer just after they land on Earth in episode 7 and says that while he's only logged 2 hours of combat, he's done 55 or so hours of training within those 7 episodes. Which, bear in mind that episode 1 doesn't even count since he only gets in to the unit at the end of the episode, and that there's been maybe a week or at most two weeks since then by the time of that discussion, and that Amuro has not only had to train in simulators and stuff in the meantime, but to repair, maintain and analyze the unit too because the White Base is shorthanded. That's over 2 days of training total in a 7 to 14 day period, as well as other work and almost daily combat. It's no wonder he was so skilled in such a short time, because Amuro put in some loving work. He did it because he wanted to prove to himself and the crew that he had worth, and that he was better than Char, but he still did it. tsob fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Dec 20, 2020 |
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Dec 20, 2020 02:30
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is it me or is turn-a gundam kind of bad about establishing the world its set in (im on episode 28)
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Dec 20, 2020 05:36
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Stairmaster posted:is it me or is turn-a gundam kind of bad about establishing the world its set in (im on episode 28) How so? I didn't take much issue with it, but it does have the same "people don't talk about details that everyone knows already" thing going on that people defend G-Reco with, which might not play well for everyone.
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Dec 20, 2020 05:44
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I'm very unclear on how much the characters actually know about the black history. Like you have this edwardian tech-era society but no one seemed shocked there was a civilization on the moon which would be a revealation on par with our civilization discovering atlantis was real or something.
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Dec 20, 2020 06:06
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Stairmaster posted:I'm very unclear on how much the characters actually know about the black history. Like you have this edwardian tech-era society but no one seemed shocked there was a civilization on the moon which would be a revealation on par with our civilization discovering atlantis was real or something. i think thats just tomino writing, not a setting thing. thats just how he writes characters. you get the shocked reaction when sochie sees loran yelling at the moon, he doesnt feel the need to repeat it with random nobodies. plus guin was in communication with the moon before they invaded and he had a room full of people on the job, it had probably gotten around as a rumor at least a little bit.
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Dec 20, 2020 06:12
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tomino is bad at establishing things as seen as how every twenty pages we have to talk about how the aeug was still technically part of the earth federation. Or Jamitov mentioning his thoughts on space-immigration in one single line of dialouge and never again. (Also tomino doesn't write the screenplays himself does he? I know he didn't for Zeta)
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Dec 20, 2020 06:29
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also turn a: oh god the second set of eye catches is so much worse the absolute misplay by sunrise here
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Dec 20, 2020 06:34
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harry is so badass he doesnt even have a secret he just wears sunglasses
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Dec 20, 2020 06:46
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Stairmaster posted:I'm very unclear on how much the characters actually know about the black history. Like you have this edwardian tech-era society but no one seemed shocked there was a civilization on the moon which would be a revealation on par with our civilization discovering atlantis was real or something. There's a lot of oral tradition about the Moon civilization, and they've been sending visitors on occasion for centuries. (One of their arguments the Moon people make for occupying the Sun Belt is that they've been left vacant of large scale colonization, keeping to the old agreements.) Guin has also been in contact for years, and had been doing extensive prep work in secret. People don't know exactly what went down beyond legends, but enough stories are in circulation that it's probably not a shock when they're proven true.
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Dec 20, 2020 06:52
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wow this suddenly became indianna jones and im here for it
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Dec 20, 2020 07:53
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ZZ done, generally liked it, even the goofy first half. Man, I miss goofy himbo Mashymre. I did notice the parallels between the ending of 0079 and the ending of ZZ where the MC has to flag down the ship from space whilst standing on the wreckage of their suit. Cool things: Goofy Mash man Roux Louka The ZZ is a very cool suit Leina managed to make it Sayla's back! Not so cool things: Emo Mash man Chara Soon got annoying after a while Early Beecha and Mondo RIP Gundam MkII and Zeta
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Dec 20, 2020 17:37
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Ibblebibble posted:ZZ done, generally liked it, even the goofy first half. Man, I miss goofy himbo Mashymre. Cyber Newtypes: Not Even Once
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Dec 20, 2020 18:18
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Being able to recruit Mashymre in SRW X was great.
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Dec 20, 2020 18:27
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Stairmaster posted:Also tomino doesn't write the screenplays himself does he? I know he didn't for Zeta He generally doesn't, no. He only wrote one episode in 0079 himself, for instance, which was the episode "Time, Be Still", where a group of infantrymen try to take down the Gundam by planting explosives on it with the promise they can go home if they manage to succeed. He generally works more on the visual side of things from my understanding, doing storyboarding and initial character or mechanical design and even some music at times on various shows from what I've read. That's not really a surprise though, since he started out as a storyboarder I think. I'm not sure how much he wrote on Zeta, ZZ or Turn A in particular, but I do know that G-Reco is the only show he worked on where he was the main writer for every episode. He did the script for movies like Char's Counterattack and F-91 alright, but he generally had other duties on his shows so he didn't write many episodes. That said, it's made a bit harder to track because when Tomino does other work than directing he tends to use pseudonyms, apparently so his name doesn't overshadow the contributions of other staff. Rin Logi is the only one I recall off-hand, and I can't even remember where that was. Stairmaster posted:harry is so badass he doesnt even have a secret he just wears sunglasses There's a fun minor scene later in the show when the cast are on the Moon, where Bruno and Jacop are talking andone of the two of them gets a reproduction of Harry's sunglasses, and shows it off to the other while the other one has Dianna's named tattooed on them or something; they both want to become royal guards basically.
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Dec 20, 2020 19:40
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tsob posted:He generally doesn't, no. He only wrote one episode in 0079 himself, for instance, which was the episode "Time, Be Still", where a group of infantrymen try to take down the Gundam by planting explosives on it with the promise they can go home if they manage to succeed. That episode was fun in particular because it showed how the gundam really wasn’t invincible and the bomb removal was super tense. I like it in mecha fights when infantry and stuff other than the robots matter. I’ve been watching all of gundam chronologically and now I’m right after the Moon Moon eps in ZZ. It’s been good so far but I’m wondering if whether or not to switch it up or not once I finish CCA since I don’t feel like I have to watch every single Gundam series.
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Dec 21, 2020 00:50
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hostess with the Moltres posted:That episode was fun in particular because it showed how the gundam really wasn’t invincible and the bomb removal was super tense. I like it in mecha fights when infantry and stuff other than the robots matter. After CCA is a good place to take a break.
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Dec 21, 2020 00:51
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hostess with the Moltres posted:That episode was fun in particular because it showed how the gundam really wasn’t invincible and the bomb removal was super tense. I like it in mecha fights when infantry and stuff other than the robots matter. I like that their method of reaching the Gundam was basically a bunch of flying chairs. The thing I most appreciated about that episode though, and something I thought 0079 implied several times in various ways, was that it implied that the soldiers of Zeon were a bunch of conscripts who were fighting not out of patriotism or idealism but because they had been press-ganged in to national service. The guys doing it held no ill will against the White Base crew; they just wanted to go home, because war is misery. I like it from a lore perspective, because it explains how Zeon had so many people on the front lines, but why almost everyone in 0079 seems to fight for personal reasons rather than any kind of idealism. It's something I wish other shows had taken up, but over the years the Principality and all it's forces have been depicted as scrappy volunteers rebelling against the system rather than a bunch of people pushed out the door and in to a meat grinder they didn't actually have anything against.
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Dec 21, 2020 01:58
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tsob posted:I like it from a lore perspective, because it explains how Zeon had so many people on the front lines, but why almost everyone in 0079 seems to fight for personal reasons rather than any kind of idealism. It's something I wish other shows had taken up, but over the years the Principality and all it's forces have been depicted as scrappy volunteers rebelling against the system rather than a bunch of people pushed out the door and in to a meat grinder they didn't actually have anything against. I suppose this depiction makes sense in most shows, since 0079 is the last time Zeon is fighting as a nation-state(and thus having a large population of conscriptable civilians who might not be entirely sold on the whole war thing) rather than as a bunch of diehard zealot true believers with a permanent lost cause axe to grind.
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Dec 21, 2020 05:57
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