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StrixNebulosa posted:Raging Loop question! I just finished Wit and loved it. How many "main" routes are there? I don't want names, just numbers. Is Darkness the last one? I hope not! Four
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Dec 13, 2020 18:18
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I just got to a part in Robotics;Notes where the absolute worst things happen, and somehow Steins;Gate being part of the same series makes it worse because there's no time travel shenanigans this time around. I'm very curious about how things will transpire from here on out. edit: I think the worst part is that (I think Phase 9 spoilers, but I'll say 10 to be safe) Junna and the others aren't exactly wrong about it being their fault. Everyone involved has legitimate reasons to feel extremely guilty. Subaru probably feels guilty for being a dumbass and standing under the robot and knowing how his injury is going to mentally wreck the others (and Junna in particular), and Junna let herself be distracted while controlling the robot. Akiho is sort of more broadly responsible for presumably encouraging the testing without any supervision (though to be fair Subaru was probably also pushing for that). I'm also curious to find out what Misaki's deal is. What PoVs we've had seem to imply that she's not malicious, but she's presumably in the know about ExCo's actions, which includes murdering Mizuka. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Dec 14, 2020 |
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Dec 14, 2020 10:00
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Yo, thanks. I'm 3-4 keys away from the end and god drat I love this game, it reminds me of Siren a LOT in a good way. So of course I have to ask - are there any other games like those? Small Japanese village will traditions that may or may not have supernatural elements and horrible things happen? Doesn't have to be a visual novel, but I'd be pleased if there were more.
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Dec 16, 2020 19:17
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Higurashi.
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Dec 16, 2020 19:30
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Higurashi. A good rec, except that I didn't care for that one.  At least Umineko owned.
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Dec 16, 2020 20:22
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How far did you get into Higurashi?
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Dec 16, 2020 20:54
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MegaZeroX posted:How far did you get into Higurashi? Meakashi-hen, the first of the answer arcs.
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Dec 16, 2020 20:56
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Did it just get too gross? That's an interesting time to tap out.
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Dec 16, 2020 21:01
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No Wave posted:Did it just get too gross? That's an interesting time to tap out. Keeping in mind that I tried to read it so far long ago that I was posting in the visual novel thread in ADTRW at the time, I... don't remember. Things I remember about Higurashi, spoilered for everything including Meakashi-hen and probably the rest of it too: - LONG. so long. oh my god stop doing the slice of life segments. - The child abuse sequences got me so badly I remember crying while talking to my therapist at the time about them. Absolutely devastating, and to no one's surprise, similar sequences in Umineko also left me sobbing. - Desperately trying to wikipedia/TVtropes/google up answers to the whole thing because what was going ON? and finding either nothing or what felt like nonsense. (time loops? immortal beings? what the gently caress) - so by the time I hit Meakashi-hen I'd dropped the game at least twice, wasn't sure if I was enjoying myself (thanks to not liking the characters too much) or if there was a mystery that was interesting (something about a hospital outside of the village, helicopters, a reporter, poison?) - and then it goes "anyways Yakuza time" with the twins and killing and weird family traditions - around this time I realized I just... didn't want to read it and dropped it entirely. so I never got real closure or satisfaction out of how much time I spent with it, and almost skipped Umineko entirely due to that. I may someday revisit it, as it has some truly excellent sequences, but... I'd rather wait until Ciconia is done and read that first.
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Dec 16, 2020 21:27
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Nothing wrong with skipping it. I'll just mention that after finishing Umineko you would find it much less difficult to follow if you ever went back. Still extremely violent and disturbing tho (especially meakashi)
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Dec 16, 2020 21:31
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Really enjoying Robotics;Notes so far! Reliving that Steins;Gate magic. Production quality is iffy, but the 'novel' part is tight, and nothing's even kicked off yet.
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Dec 19, 2020 22:34
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What's the best version of that to play? Are they all the same?
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Dec 19, 2020 23:02
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DaSh is a sequel, apparently, so Elite is the one to start with. The fan patch is a must, the mouse controls are super tight and it's crazy how they shipped the game without them.
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Dec 19, 2020 23:13
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woodenchicken posted:DaSh is a sequel, apparently, so Elite is the one to start with. The fan patch is a must, the mouse controls are super tight and it's crazy how they shipped the game without them. Mouse controls for a VN? Alright, so since you're saying I need a fan patch I guess don't go for the switch version then?
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Dec 20, 2020 01:44
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Stefan Prodan posted:Mouse controls for a VN? http://sonome.dareno.me/projects/rne-steam.html You can see what it does here and decide based on that. As for mouse controls..yeah? It's cool to sit back in your chair and have the mouse on your lap and click (though when supported a gamepad is fine for that too!).
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Dec 20, 2020 01:56
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kirbysuperstar posted:http://sonome.dareno.me/projects/rne-steam.html Well yeah I guess I meant like...well, I thought every VN supported mouse clicks to advance out of the box so I assumed you meant something more fleshed out and I didn't really understand what that would be for a VN is all
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Dec 20, 2020 02:00
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I picked up a Steam Controller during that big clearance thing and I absolutely love it for VNs (and almost nothing else). You can even use it for non-Steam games if you set the controls for "general desktop use", it rules
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Dec 20, 2020 02:01
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Stefan Prodan posted:Well yeah I guess I meant like...well, I thought every VN supported mouse clicks to advance out of the box so I assumed you meant something more fleshed out and I didn't really understand what that would be for a VN is all Oh, I see. From memory I think R;N was a 360 exclusive for the longest time so I guess they just uh, didn't have mouse support, for the PC port.
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Dec 20, 2020 02:14
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kirbysuperstar posted:Oh, I see. From memory I think R;N was a 360 exclusive for the longest time so I guess they just uh, didn't have mouse support, for the PC port. lol drat that's kinda funny, what an oversight how hard could it have been to just add "MB1 = A button" or something
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Dec 20, 2020 02:24
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So I'm finally reading Umineko after years of it being in my 'you should really play this' game backlog, and, well, let's just have a big spoiler block of vague rambling I guess. Up to end of arc 2. While I'm enjoying it quite a bit, I'm not entirely sure *what* it is we, as in Battler, should be accomplishing here. I think it's best summed up with this screenshot: Why are we so vehemently opposed to magic or at least something extremely magic-like being involved when we, as the player at least (and by the end even in-game Battler, given that banquet), have had multiple scenes of things that I really find hard to possibly explain otherwise. Heck, even some of the locked rooms in this 2nd run of the game I cannot even try to form a sensible non-magic theory about with all the red text restrictions given by Beatrice. So what are we doing here?? Then there's that big riddle on the epitaph which... I don't really have a theory about yet either. I mean the second page at least vaguely makes sense, but even that has several oddities if we try to apply it to the deaths as they happened during our two games so far. In the second game even the order of the 4th to 8th twilight kills seems off compared to what actually happened, and who knows what happened to Kinzo in game 1. The 'witch shall revive, and none shall be left alive' part is also super sketchy IMO -- Beatrice has been running around doing stuff the entire 2nd game at least, why would she not count as 'revived' before that? Also the rewards on the last page seem inconsistent with what the scrolling 'game results' at the end of each arc show us... I dunno what to make of all this yet, but I strongly suspect this all has a very different meaning than the 'obvious' reading of it. The first page might as well be gibberish for now, too. As for the actual game rules, I got nothing so far. There's definitely a pattern or method here that the game's pushing me to figure out -- I'm guessing stuff like why people die when and how we can predict Beatrice's 'moves' to protect against them?? -- but no real clue yet. I dunno. Again, I am quite enjoying the experience, but at the same time this game is making me feel quite dumb, haha. Admiral H. Curtiss fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Dec 20, 2020 |
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Dec 20, 2020 07:00
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Stefan Prodan posted:Mouse controls for a VN?
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Dec 20, 2020 09:32
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Admiral H. Curtiss posted:So I'm finally reading Umineko after years of it being in my 'you should really play this' game backlog, and, well, let's just have a big spoiler block of vague rambling I guess. Up to end of arc 2. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts during/after chapter 3.
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Dec 20, 2020 13:39
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Admiral H. Curtiss posted:So I'm finally reading Umineko after years of it being in my 'you should really play this' game backlog, and, well, let's just have a big spoiler block of vague rambling I guess. Up to end of arc 2. Definitely revisit your post after EP3 and see what you think it does or does not address.;
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Dec 20, 2020 14:44
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Nate RFB posted:This is oversimplifying or glossing over a fair bit but ultimately "a witch did it" means you need not think about the why, the how, or even possibly the who depending upon your perspective. And that closes the door not only on the mystery itself but also the story that wraps around it. Yeah that's fair enough, but IMO those two things are not fully in conflict as Umineko makes them out to be. You can absolutely have supernatural elements and still build up a logically consistent and solvable mystery -- look at the original Phoenix Wright trilogy for a perfect example. But yeah I'll definitely revisit this after each arc, the game's clearly not done talking about it.
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Dec 20, 2020 15:32
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It's a matter of setting really; Ace Attorney will go out of its ways to establish the "rules" of spirit mediums and what they can or more importantly can not do for the purposes of its murders, or using the psyche-locks and Apollo's weird wrist thing to game-ify what really just amounts to grilling someone and reading body language. And all of that is just part of that universe that would break down pretty quickly if it wasn't made clear since you as the player are tasked with trying to solve the puzzle as presented. It's of course possible Umineko will do something similar with its setting which I won't confirm or deny but at present as of EP2 it's stuff like "oh I shot a stake through a keyhole and killed everyone in the room with it so that's why it's a closed room" and that of course makes you stop thinking about it if you go along with it.
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Dec 20, 2020 16:18
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PW is a good example, but channeling is a major plotpoint in the first game so you are fully aware of what magic can do and what its limitations are by the time it starts being used as an element in mysteries. By comparison Beatrice is claiming that her magic is essentially omnipotent.
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Dec 20, 2020 16:25
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Please  don't read the below Admiral H. Curtiss. The below is for the other commenters.I'm not really sure why people poke readers on their acceptance of magic in chapter 2. They will realize what they are supposed to do in chapter 3, and it kind of feels like the reader is meant to accept it at face value on chapter 2. Chapter 3 is where the reader can start thinking and reevaluate what they think of the earlier chapters.
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Dec 20, 2020 16:33
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MegaZeroX posted:Please The reader was definitely not supposed to accept it at face value. The fact the people kept doing it is why Ryukishi threw out the original episode 3 and changed it to what you know now.
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Dec 22, 2020 00:42
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Cyouni posted:The reader was definitely not supposed to accept it at face value. The fact the people kept doing it is why Ryukishi threw out the original episode 3 and changed it to what you know now. Sure, but as it is, early chapter 3 flows well if the reader is taking it at face value, and otherwise is just going to say what the reader already knows. At the very least, I enjoyed empathizing with Battler when he went: 
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Dec 22, 2020 05:53
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Partway through Umineko arc 3. So if I'm understanding this Braun tube analogy correctly, basically what we're saying is that we can only be sure of the result we actually observe as 'character Battler' and anything that we only see from our 'player Battler' position is effectively only an explaination for those results as given by the 'player Beatrice' that may or may not be true until proven in either direction. That sounds convoluted as hell, but I think I get it. It means that if I can find a solution how the current situation happened without invoking magic, and that does not contradict either the stuff actually observed by 'character Battler' or any of the red text given by Beatrice and her allies, *this also counts as the truth until proven otherwise*, even if both our explanations contradict eachother. Neither becomes the actual truth until either of us accepts the explanation of the other -- which explains why at the end of game 2 obviously magical things started happening once Battler surrendered to Beatrice! The act of surrendering made it the truth! Quite an interesting way to look at this! I'll keep this in mind for the future. ...That's what I had written up before reaching the Beatrice succession ceremony and now I don't even know what this game is doing anymore. What the hell.
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Dec 24, 2020 21:05
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Admiral H. Curtiss posted:Partway through Umineko arc 3.
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Dec 24, 2020 23:30
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Also, regarding what Battler's trying to accomplish, it's interesting to understand much of Umineko works as a metacommentary about Higurashi and the fan reaction to it (generic context follows but for those who haven't finished Ep 2 you might want to not look) and Battler specifically is among other things about how some readers reacted, well, similarly to how StrixNebulosa has it as part of their reason for dropping it earlier in this thread (don't read the specifics of their objection if you don't wanna be spoiled for the midgame though!). Higurashi is one of those cases where it's a mystery but with increasingly apparent supernatural elements (however it may turn out at the end). In fact, the argument is presented fairly early on that even in the hypothesis a ghost or demon did it, they must still have a motive and so it changes nothing to the general detection process. But that's not how a chunk of the fandom reacted, however, and there was much debate about how the presence of supernatural elements immediately and inherently invalidated the premise of it being a mystery. That's the mutually exclusive approach Battler has been representing, with the witch/killer, the "author" of the crimes and a stand-in for Ryukishi, trying to prove him wrong or at least argue that if he wants to defend that point of view he's gonna have to do some groundwork instead of declaring it as an accomplished fact. But also, regarding Phoenix Wright specifically, yeah, the thing is channeling is considered normal in the setting in the first place, even by normal people, enough for specifics of it to be considered evidence in several trials, so for them it's not really supernatural, yet a killer walking through walls would still appear supernatural and thus impossible to them and they'd search for an alternate explanation. EDIT: v v v alright Chev fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Dec 25, 2020 |
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Dec 24, 2020 23:57
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You should probably spoiler tag a decent amount of those two paragraphs. There isn't anything specific there, but it's the kind of discussion one shouldn't read when having read neither.
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Dec 25, 2020 00:12
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I’ve made the horrible mistake of getting an idea for a DDLC mod, seeing if I can get feedback and resources from its modding community, and realizing that I’m far better off making my own drat game than dealing with edgy teenagers. Guess I’ll go do something else v  v
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Dec 25, 2020 00:48
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Make that game of your own! Many projects start that way.
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Dec 25, 2020 01:16
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Yeah. DDLC was made in Ren'Py with a few tricks so it wouldn't be too hard to make something that plays similarly.
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Dec 25, 2020 01:22
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Eh, the mod idea makes like no sense outside of the context of the base game, so I'll prolly just make something totally new. That said, I'm liking Renpy so far. Some of the most fun I've had modding DDLC was reading through the codebase. I mean, it's a shitshow, but one I'm able to understand so now I feel like a real gamedev!
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Dec 25, 2020 01:31
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Finished Umineko arc 3, more rambling. There's also some allusions to Higurashi in this block of text, so tread carefully if you haven't read the 8 main arcs of that one. What a loving wild ride this is. You got me, Beato! I totally played along until the banquet at the end, where it was pretty clear something was wrong. The game even put up big red warning signs, ah well... So since Eva was the culprit in this one, with her husband being an accomplice (well, for some part of it anyway, considering he ended up dead too...), suspecting family is fair game now. Though specifics still elude me; Nanjo's death in particular has been pretty locked out of anything sensible with all the red statements. I'll admit I couldn't quite follow the bit about Eva and Rosa solving the epitaph, though the way some of it was described makes me wonder if it's even solvable without Kanji trickery... I'll also note that all they solved was the first couple lines, the rest still makes no sense if you deny magic, which makes me wonder if their reading of it was even correct at all. More to think about I suppose. At this point I'm also wondering how much consistency there is loop to loop. Like, how about that story about Rosa meeting a young Beatrice and her falling off a cliff? Is that always true? Hell, is it even true *this loop*?? (If so, how do we explain her appearance in arc 2?) I assume it's not always Eva as the culprit, purely because of meta-wise it being odd to reveal that in arc 3 already if it applies to all of it, which raises the question of who it was in the first two. There's also statements like this one that are phrased so specifically that they don't really exclude a '19th person' in games 1 or 2 -- or indeed game 4, if I'm getting that part about Ange correctly! I can see parallels to the Higurashi arc 7 -> 8 transition in that scene with Ange and Bernkastel at the end here, where we need an 'extra piece' in order to actually 'win' this, but at the same time we're not even close to the end, and they even said that it's quite likely that, if any, all we can rescue is a single family member... Definitely interesting where this is going. Since the game is urging me to do that, it's probably a good idea to formulate some actual theories about the mysteries presented before going to the answer arcs, but there's still another arc to go before that and I need some time to process all that happened here, so I'll probably do that after arc 4. We'll see if I can come up with something logical. e: Oh yeah, almost forgot. What's up with this description? Is the game implying that Battler is in on it? Admiral H. Curtiss fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Dec 28, 2020 |
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Dec 27, 2020 23:46
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I really wanna hear if you have any theories about Nanjo's death in chapter 3?
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Dec 28, 2020 01:55
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This might be a silly question, but Higurashi IS worth playing right? I say silly because obviously I've seen people here discuss it a bunch, so obviously people here will recommend it. Still, despite reading and liking Umineko I probably wouldn't even look at Higurashi normally, the anime high school / school girl asthetic really turns me off of it.
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Dec 28, 2020 02:30
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