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GEMorris posted:One last point on this combo, to do fine adjustments with the plunge router, I use a block of wood and the height adjustment on the planer: Holy poo poo, that's genius. It's jerry-rigged, but in the best way, since you have that super fine control from the planer.
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Dec 20, 2020 05:17
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Speaking of hybrid setups... I have one of those plastic Husky router tables (I’m not a fan but it’s fine for now) with my fixed base router mounted, and an old Delta miter saw (poached from my dad’s garage, date of manufacture is ‘96 but it still works and, continuing the theme, is fine for now) mounted on a dewalt compact miter saw stand with brackets. My next purchase is likely a smallish table saw. I have a small garage and I’m trying to think of ways to somehow combine multiple tools on one surface. Both the router table and miter saw stand individually collapse down really well, but adding a table saw to the mix... not sure what my options are. Are there any interesting miter saw + table saw + router setups that occupy a minimum of space, or are in some way collapsible?
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Dec 20, 2020 05:43
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Toebone posted:Recommend me a first table saw for my little basement shop. Assume I know next to nothing about table saws. Get one with a riving knife.
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Dec 20, 2020 08:32
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His Divine Shadow posted:Get one with a riving knife. Hearty, hearty +1 here. Lots of people will tell you "buy a used saw, you can add a splitter yourself even if it doesn't have a riving knife." These people hate you. Get one with a riving knife. If you're looking for specifics, I really like my saw. It's a Metabo HPT (formerly Hitachi) C10RJ workshop saw. Retails for almost $600 but very regularly on sale in the $300 range at Lowe's (I got mine for $349 I think?). It's got a rack-and-pinion adjustable fence that I find to be really, really nice for the size of saw and the whole thing is just solidly built and easy to deal with. The fence has a 90" rotation which could be nice for supporting the edge of sheet goods if you want to rip on it, but I'd probably try to avoid ripping on a saw this small generally unless I had an extra set of hands around. Now that we're almost done with the pay-the-professional part of the home renovation process we're approaching the point where I will have an empty 22' x 11' garage as my shop; and this will pretty much live close to the center of the shop, with a wheeled outfeed table/assembly table behind it to deal with the biggest problem I have with it (the extensible outfeed thingy at the back of the saw isn't very useful). tracecomplete fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Dec 20, 2020 |
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Dec 20, 2020 10:00
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bobua posted:Wife's side table request. poplar, bb, black walnut. This is lovely.
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Dec 20, 2020 10:18
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Looking into getting a no. 7 plane, but not sure if I want to buy new. Is eBay a decent source for used planes? Are there other places I should be looking? Anything in particular I should be looking out for when buying used?
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Dec 20, 2020 15:13
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Made a dowel jig so I can make the sling-shot arm for the catapults:    Could be improved with more support before and behind the cutting action. Latest pic I have of the catapults, I have actually gotten the bits that hold the string made too, I decided to turn them from metal as well, same as the release mechanism, there is a spring loaded sear on the inside. 
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Dec 20, 2020 15:18
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Saddamnit posted:Looking into getting a no. 7 plane, but not sure if I want to buy new. Is eBay a decent source for used planes? Are there other places I should be looking? Anything in particular I should be looking out for when buying used? Not that good used jointer planes can't be found, but flattening one is *really hard*. If I had a limited budget the jointer plane is the one I'd spend the money on to buy new. Personally I use the Veritas No 6 as my jointer even though it's only 18", and it is, imo, an excellent bargain when it comes to modern precision made planes.
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Dec 20, 2020 16:50
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GEMorris posted:Not that good used jointer planes can't be found, but flattening one is *really hard*. Speaking of planes, if I was going to buy a plane to give myself a true edge and side as shown in a video posted here within the last week or so for fairly smallish pieces of wood (figure 2" thick x 24" long by 6-8" wide) what plane would you suggest? The Veritas Low-Angle Jack Plane, or something more like your #6? I'm not sure what the advantage/disadvantage of the 35 degree vs. 25 degree angle of the blade is for that kind of work.
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Dec 20, 2020 17:18
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serious gaylord posted:This is lovely. 
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Dec 20, 2020 17:51
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   I made a thing!
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Dec 20, 2020 17:56
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The Locator posted:Speaking of planes, if I was going to buy a plane to give myself a true edge and side as shown in a video posted here within the last week or so for fairly smallish pieces of wood (figure 2" thick x 24" long by 6-8" wide) what plane would you suggest? The Veritas Low-Angle Jack Plane, or something more like your #6? I'm not sure what the advantage/disadvantage of the 35 degree vs. 25 degree angle of the blade is for that kind of work. The Low Angle Jack vs. No 6 question depends on several things: If you don't have a powered jointer or a jointer plane AND you expect to work with boards over 36" AND you eventually expect to own other planes (at a minimum a dedicated smoother like the SBUS) THEN No 6. If you do have a jointer plane or powered jointer AND don't plan on buying more multiple premium planes OR You don't plan on working with boards over 36" or so THEN low-angle jack Either way you will need an extra blade (and chipbreaker in the case of the no6) so you can keep one sharpened with a significant camber for roughing and one mostly-straight for edges and smoothing. If you go low angle you may want a third to keep one sharpened low-angle specifically for shooting. You can shoot with either plane but the low angle is slightly better. That said I shoot with my SBUS unless the work demands heft, then I use the 6. Another way to look at it: The veritas no 6. can reasonably substitute for both a jointer plane and a jack plane with a blade swap and serves well as one of the planes in a two-pane setup. (For me this would be No6 as the fore and jointer plane, and the SBUS as smoother and block plane) The veritas low-angle jack plane is the best attempt out there for a single-plane setup, but needs to be augmented with an array of blades or power tools, and won't do the jointer function or the fore plane function quite as well as the 6 (but will do better at smoothing and shooting). It obviously isn't going to replace a block plane, so you'll end up with one of those regardless (but you probably would anyhow, regardless of direction). What muddies the water is the veritas combo deal with the low angle jack, the sbus, and the low angle block plane. It is a good deal, and worth considering if you have the cash. I really wish the no6. Was the large plane in that set because it would be my go-to recommendation.
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Dec 20, 2020 17:56
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For those like me that were totally confused, the SBUS stands for small bevel up smoothing plane.
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Dec 20, 2020 18:29
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I thought in that video the guy did it pretty much completely with the one long plane, but maybe I should go back and watch it again. Here is the type of stock that I'm working with. The bottom piece is Castello (Boxwood) and the top piece is Swiss Pearwood.  The Castello is drat near perfect as it is, I can detect no high or low points using a straight edge and the edges are spot on 90 degrees. The Pear though has a definite twist. One edge seems to be perfect, so I would want to use that edge to make an adjacent edge straight. Once I have two adjacent flat edges this wood will be put in the bandsaw and ripped into sheets of whatever thickness I need for my project, typically not very thick, 5/16" or 1/4" would be very common, with the occasional need for maybe 1/2". Those sheets will be fed through a thickness sander. The goal is to get the re-sawn sheets as flat as possible to minimize waste since this wood is expensive. If I could get away with using a single plane to do this that would be great, but if I have to buy more I will just have to bite the bullet and do that, and I'll practice on some much cheaper wood. Thanks guys. Edit: Helps to actually include the image. Edit 2: I currently have no full sized wood working tools other than a circular saw. I have no jointer (power or otherwise) or planes other than little tiny and horrible garbage ones. The Locator fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Dec 20, 2020 |
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Dec 20, 2020 19:23
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You may recall I was planning on putting up some built in bookshelves with a really dumb feature earlier this year. Covid and a broken hand put a significant delay on most of the work as I had to gut the rooms and re-wire them before I could even start, but I finally managed to get going this weekend. I chose to build basically a stud wall to support everything as they are taking up and entire side of the lounge with nothing to support them otherwise. This also lets me deal with any of the usual issues you get with old houses like walls not being straight and ceilings not level. Much easier to pack out frames than try and sort it out once the bookcases had been assembled. This paid for itself already since the ceiling and floor slope away from each other, neither is level so the left side studs are approx 15mm longer than the right. Designing this was more of an engineering challenge than woodworking as the bookcases themselves will be fairly basic. They're replacing a wall that was knocked through terribly by the previous owners so we just took it the rest of the way down. This meant that the ceiling joist was in the wrong position to fix to properly hence the rather interesting arrangement i've had to do at the top, and dealing with two slightly different height floors.    I got all the bases, fixing points and everything vertical in and I'll put the horizontal and brace pieces in over the next few days and the christmas break. Lockdown is good for something I suppose and its not often you get to have all your machines in your lounge. I'll take advantage of that while I can. Then I get to wait until I can take delivery of some ash faced ply to do the actual pretty stuff.
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Dec 20, 2020 19:39
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The Locator posted:
My first recommendation in non-covid times would be "find someone with a powered jointer and buy them a beer to help you out" but current times being as unprecedented as they are I think it is safe to say that a low-angle jack (or even just the SBUS and patience) will serve your needs. If you are working on small parts all the time I can't imagine a better plane than the SBUS, but getting your larger stock squared up with such a small smoother might be tricky without experience. It is possible though.
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Dec 20, 2020 19:40
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GEMorris posted:My first recommendation in non-covid times would be "find someone with a powered jointer and buy them a beer to help you out" but current times being as unprecedented as they are I think it is safe to say that a low-angle jack (or even just the SBUS and patience) will serve your needs. If you are working on small parts all the time I can't imagine a better plane than the SBUS, but getting your larger stock squared up with such a small smoother might be tricky without experience. It is possible though. Thanks. Once I get all the wood for the project and see how good/bad it is, I may go ahead and bite the bullet on the Veritas starter set, but drat that's a lot of money for what I'm doing. A buddy took his wood to Woodcrafters or Woodworkers Supply (I forget which) and they squared up everything in their shop, but it was like $50 for three chunks of wood and I will probably end up with 20+ pieces for this project. Finding someone with a powered jointer sounds like the best plan, if I can find someone!
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Dec 20, 2020 20:03
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As someone with mostly bevel down planes, I guess I don't get the big difference between bevel up and bevel down. Like, is is just that you can get a lower angle with bevel up?
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Dec 20, 2020 20:39
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Is there a recommended benchtop band saw?
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Dec 20, 2020 21:03
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Elder Postsman posted:As someone with mostly bevel down planes, I guess I don't get the big difference between bevel up and bevel down. Like, is is just that you can get a lower angle with bevel up? Bevel up blades are generally bedded at 12° so add that to whatever the blade bevel is to get your angle, e.g. sharpening a 25° bevel nets you a low angle set up perfect for end grain and shooting, while sharpening a 43° bevel would get you a 55° angle making it able to tackle even the gnarliest woods without much if any tearout. The fact that you can do all of these things with a single plane, and that blade swaps are painless due to not having to mess with a chipbreaker, makes them really appealing. I mention the SBUS so much because I cant imagine getting more function in a single smoothing plane, even if I dont think its an appropriate "only" plane unless your work is really small scale. Schwarz cites two main concerns with bevel up planes: 1. Its hard to get them to function as a true roughing fore plane with a really aggressive camber like you can with a bevel down plane. 2. He prefers bevel down jointer planes as he says the high center of gravity helps him know if the plane is tilting or not. As for myself my smoother and block planes are bevel up, while my fore and try (try is the term for the jointer function, can be used interchangeably most of the time) planes are bevel down. If someone made an 18-20" bevel up fore/try plane with flat sides I would probably buy it and replace the No6. But as it stands I think the Veritas No6. Is still the best fore/try tweener plane.
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Dec 20, 2020 21:24
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The Slack Lagoon posted:Is there a recommended benchtop band saw? I assume you are talking about the smallish 10" bandsaws like I use? I only have experience with two of them. My first was this Ryobi:  It worked, but it was.. cheap. By that I mean it was very difficult to adjust and get the table set at 90 degrees to the blade, all adjustments were just really difficult to make accurately because they were simply pressure fit on cheap cast metal. The fence would move with even moderate pressure no matter how much I tightened it, and it wouldn't tighten at a straight angle to the blade. The motor was weak and even 1" thick stock had to be fed extremely slowly. I'm not 100% sure as it's been a while, but I don't think it had a dust extraction port. I don't recommend it. My current saw is this Wen:  I'm guessing that there are probably higher quality saws out there, but I'm really quite happy with this one. With a good blade (Highland Wood Slicer - 1/2") it makes very straight clean cuts on my Castello and Swiss Pear that are very hard woods and almost 3" thick. The fence sets with a single quick motion and is easily adjustable down to about 1/32" without too much difficulty. The miter/pusher thing (no idea what it's actually called) is much more accurate and the track it goes in is very tight vs. the Ryobi where it was very sloppy fit. It has a dust extraction port that seems to work quite well. Edit: Also the Wen comes with legs that can be attached to the base making it a stand-alone saw, although it would be a bit lower than it is sitting on top of a workbench like I have it. The Locator fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Dec 20, 2020 |
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Dec 20, 2020 22:09
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The Rikon is likely slightly better than the Wen, but there isn't a lot of competition for non-budget saw in that size range. You don't start seeing good high quality options until you get into the 14" range at which point your options explode, some of which can be bench mounted. If you want high quality 10" ish benchtop your real option is finding a used Inca. If your constraints are *best bandsaw I can mount on a bench* then you want this one GEMorris fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Dec 20, 2020 |
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Dec 20, 2020 22:17
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GEMorris posted:Bevel up blades are generally bedded at 12° so add that to whatever the blade bevel is to get your angle, e.g. sharpening a 25° bevel nets you a low angle set up perfect for end grain and shooting, while sharpening a 43° bevel would get you a 55° angle making it able to tackle even the gnarliest woods without much if any tearout. The fact that you can do all of these things with a single plane, and that blade swaps are painless due to not having to mess with a chipbreaker, makes them really appealing. I mention the SBUS so much because I cant imagine getting more function in a single smoothing plane, even if I dont think its an appropriate "only" plane unless your work is really small scale. So multiple blades instead of multiple planes; that makes sense. Thanks for the clear explanation. In other news, this grooving plane I made is super satisfying to use, and way better than a stupid power router (the worst power tool). 
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Dec 20, 2020 22:19
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Ok I didn't even realize this thing existed but if you want benchtop bandsaw at the highest quality you can get, and you either must have new or you can't find an INCA, then this Hammer is probably your best bet.
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Dec 20, 2020 22:27
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Saddamnit posted:Looking into getting a no. 7 plane, but not sure if I want to buy new. Is eBay a decent source for used planes? Are there other places I should be looking? Anything in particular I should be looking out for when buying used? I've sourced most of my vintage tools from eBay, yeah. Use the "Sold Listings" thing on eBay to get a feel for how much things are actually selling for. Use that to set a target price, bid that amount on nice looking items, and keep trying until you win one. I think No 7s are a little more rare, so they'll be a little pricey. I paid about $100 for my No 8, and that was a local purchase without any shipping. IMO don't buy anything that needs rehabbing unless you're into fixing up old planes. Skip anything with rust, a bunch of dings, broken totes, bad/too few photos, etc. It shouldn't be too tough to find something in good shape if you're patient. These tools seem to be holding, or increasing, in value, so you shouldn't have hard time reselling if you decide to. There are also some web shops focused on old tools, although their prices will be higher than eBay. Hyper Kitten doesn't seem to have any bench planes in stock right now, but you could email him anyway. Patrick Leach has every old tool known to man for sale, you can email him and ask what he has that you're looking for. However I'm pretty sure he's a right-wing rear end in a top hat, if that matters to you. If you get lucky you can find stuff on Craigslist. In Ye Olde Days, you could join M-WTCA and go to a tool meet. They're hit-and-miss, but usually easy to find the more common stuff there. Maybe they can start doing meets again late next year.
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Dec 20, 2020 22:32
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Attn bookmarks browsers: I've started a project thread for a pair of cabinets that I'm building. Includes a few new techniques for me, including drawers and half-blind dovetails. Today was case dovetail day. How did it go? Why is there a $1,000 fermentation vessel in my hallway? You'll have to tune in to find out. (I'll probably post major milestones in this thread, too, like I normally do.)
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Dec 20, 2020 22:36
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Saddamnit posted:Looking into getting a no. 7 plane, but not sure if I want to buy new. Is eBay a decent source for used planes? Are there other places I should be looking? Anything in particular I should be looking out for when buying used? I actually bought a no7 on ebay recently and had great success. I was in the market for a pre-WW2 plane so it was a little pricey (around $200) but it came tuned up and sharp. There are always a ton of listings of various quality but as others have said, I would really recommend one that is already retooled unless your hobby is cleaning old tools and not woodworking. On another note, does anyone have experience with Wen bench top jointers? I'm looking at the 8" possibly
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Dec 20, 2020 23:22
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Rufio posted:On another note, does anyone have experience with Wen bench top jointers? I'm looking at the 8" possibly No but keep in mind that: 1. Power jointers can reliably flatten boards twice the length of their bed. 2. Support extensions are fiddily and not a substitute for actual bed surface in many situations.
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Dec 20, 2020 23:47
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Rufio posted:I actually bought a no7 on ebay recently and had great success. I was in the market for a pre-WW2 plane so it was a little pricey (around $200) but it came tuned up and sharp. Thanks. Also, I just bought the Wen jointer a few weeks ago. I used it to flatten some 8 ft long boards of ash. As noted above, they didn't get 100% flat. There's probably a quarter inch difference between the middle and the ends. This is one of the reasons why I'm looking for a number 7 or 8 planer. Hoping it will help me reduce the variance. Other than that, the jointer seems to do a great job.
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Dec 20, 2020 23:54
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Thanks for the notes guys. The bed length is the reason I wanted to go with the 8" rather than the 6". I am mostly into make furniture so I doubt I'll need to flatten anything super long. How are Wen tools in general? They seem to be well reviewed but it's hard to trust online reviews in the age of bots. They mostly look like clones of other brands like Rikon that are also made in China, is that about right?
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Dec 21, 2020 00:33
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Wen stuff is white-label stuff. So is Harbor Freight, so is (a lot of) Grizzly, etc.--frequently they're not identical between brands, there will be minor fit-and-finish changes (usually stuff like handles), and I have heard tell of differing manufacturing tolerances for some stuff but never seen it really substantiated. I have a Wen air filter for the shop and it's fine. The Wen dust collector looked the same as the one I got from Harbor Freight, but I could get the HF one same-day. I've never looked at them too closely for actual tools, though, just because they're rarely price competitive enough to not get something else faster/easier/etc. EDIT: also, consider support availability. Wen sells an oscillating belt sander that looks basically interchangeable with the Ridgid one or the Harbor Freight one, but I can drive ten minutes to Harbor Freight (at the cost of $15 more) or to Home Depot (at the cost of $40 more) and replace it with absolutely no bullshit if it breaks, and that's worth something to me. tracecomplete fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Dec 21, 2020 |
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Dec 21, 2020 00:55
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WEN is definitely in the lower end of the market, which doesn't always tell you if the tool is bad or not, usually its more indicative of the frequency of defects and the level of service you're going to get. Rikon is definitely a tier above WEN, and probably a little below Jet. An attempt at a stationary power tool brand tier list: S+: Felder, Minimax (SCMI), Martin S: Powermatic, Hammer, INCA (rip), Nova, Laguna, SawStop A: Delta (big stuff), Jet B+: Rikon B: Delta (small stuff), Grizzly C: Harbor Freight, WEN, Shop Fox I left out brands that make primarily portable tools but make a few stationary tools (Porter Cable, DeWalt, Hitachi, etc) Rikon is B+ rather than a whole tier because I wanted to show how little of a gap I think there is between it and the brands both above and below it. Obvs this is all just opinion so fite me
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Dec 21, 2020 01:32
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Thanks, that's very helpful. I'll look more into Rikon tools for some of the bench top tools I need since they priced more in my range. I have a small dust collector from them but that's all. I'm relatively new to woodworking (about a year maybe) but I'm an electrician and I've done some remodel carpentry professionally so I had already been collecting tools for a while. Milwaukee has always been my go-to for portable tools, but I'm a little at a loss for woodworking specific tools. My shop is about 20x25 (with a chunk dedicated to my water well/softener) so it's decent but still not big enough for a bunch of stationary tools. Right now I keep my table saw and planer on a portable stand. Though I am considering building a table saw work station soon, if I can find some plans I like. On the topic of portable tools, are Festool really that amazing? They sure are proud of them price-wise but I've never actually seen any in the flesh to play with. Rufio fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Dec 21, 2020 |
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Dec 21, 2020 01:49
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They are apparently really well made but I also haven't tried them out
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Dec 21, 2020 02:03
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Festool is very good, if they are "worth it" is dependent on your financial situation and functional needs. The things where I think they are "worth it" imo are either tools they have patents on (Domino), Sanders, and Jobsite vacuums. For everything else there's a reasonable alternative for significantly less cost (e.g. Makita's track saw is a good bargain comparatively.) That said they sort of have a "tools for dentists" reputation as well. Sort of the Leica of power tools.
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Dec 21, 2020 02:03
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Rufio posted:On the topic of portable tools, are Festool really that amazing? They sure are proud of them price-wise but I've never actually seen any in the flesh to play with. I've played with them a bit and generally speaking, no (imo) not worth the markup compared to most other tools. Festool is good, and everything they make is top notch, but there is usually something by another brand that's 5% less impressive but 30-60% the price. An example might be the random orbital sanders. Makita seems to be that 5% off when it comes to dust collection, but the price difference is staggering. $400 vs. $150. Another example might be saws. Festool's Jigsaw costs as much as a decent 12" compound miter saw. But! If you're going to have two or more Festool tools, then you're going to want to have everything Festool so that they all take advantage of the dust collection system. If you have the money. . . Why not?
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Dec 21, 2020 02:03
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Is oil-based polyurethane food safe? I was playing with the little battery operated router that I got from HD the other day and made a salt cellar from some scrap 4x4 posts that I have laying around- was thinking about giving some away for holidays (literally took like 30 mins)
Bouillon Rube fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Dec 21, 2020 |
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Dec 21, 2020 02:26
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How much does a decent starter set of hand planes go for? What are some OK brands to start with? I want to get a set instead of spending $600+ on a jointer & planer, but from what I was seeing, a good set of 3-4 hand planes can cost that much or more.
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Dec 21, 2020 02:32
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HolHorsejob posted:How much does a decent starter set of hand planes go for? What are some OK brands to start with? I want to get a set instead of spending $600+ on a jointer & planer, but from what I was seeing, a good set of 3-4 hand planes can cost that much or more. Planes aren't often sold in sets. Lee Valley does sell a good set although personally I wish the larger plane was the No6. For reasons you can see if you scroll up. If you want cheaper then you need to look at pre-war Stanleys
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Dec 21, 2020 02:35
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HolHorsejob posted:How much does a decent starter set of hand planes go for? What are some OK brands to start with? I want to get a set instead of spending $600+ on a jointer & planer, but from what I was seeing, a good set of 3-4 hand planes can cost that much or more. My hand plane "starter set" was a Record #4, and a Stanley #5 and #60 1/2. The #4 cost $45, fully restored and sharpened. The #5 and #60 1/2 were in my grandpa's garage, and the 5 needed about 60 min of work to clean up and sharpen. Check your local craigslist and similar, or eBay. pick up something like those. Like, here's a local listing for me: https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/tls/d/saint-michael-planes/7237720448.html and they've got 4s and 5s for $30 each. If you don't need them right now, and especially if you don't mind putting a little work into cleaning up and sharpening them, you don't need to spend that much.
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Dec 21, 2020 02:39
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