2021: Linux on the desktop, Free Software 9/11

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > 2021: Linux on the desktop, Free Software 9/11

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cowboy beepboop: Feb 24, 2001

can we rename this back to the microsoft thread it is confusing for my small and bad brain

# ? Dec 21, 2020 09:24

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 20:29

echinopsis: Apr 13, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

infernal machines posted:

ars has some more arm history to scratch that itch

# ? Dec 21, 2020 11:07

echinopsis: Apr 13, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

my stepdads beer posted:

can we rename this back to the microsoft thread it is confusing for my small and bad brain

I wanna ask someone in the scifi thread for some book recommendations but I have no idea what thread it is

# ? Dec 21, 2020 11:08

cowboy beepboop: Feb 24, 2001

lol i also lost it for a while, it's "it is by will alone i set my posts in motion"

# ? Dec 21, 2020 11:19

echinopsis: Apr 13, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

i thought that was just a general movie and media appreciation thread. lol

# ? Dec 21, 2020 11:45

Chris Knight: Jun 5, 2002; me @ ur posts; Fun Shoe

my stepdads beer posted:

can we rename this back to the microsoft thread it is confusing for my small and bad brain

the trick is to not read the Linux thread

# ? Dec 21, 2020 19:04

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

but doctor, this is the linux thread

# ? Dec 21, 2020 19:08

Laslow: Jul 18, 2007

let�s get back on track and keep it to serious XENIX discussion, please.

# ? Dec 21, 2020 19:34

pram: Jun 10, 2001

Laslow posted:

let�s get back on track and keep it to serious XENIX discussion, please.

# ? Dec 21, 2020 21:30

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

my stepdads beer posted:

can we rename this back to the microsoft thread it is confusing for my small and bad brain

# ? Dec 21, 2020 21:42

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

Laslow posted:

let�s get back on track and keep it to serious XENIX discussion, please.

i used to have a boxed copy of SCO XENIX. i forget how i got it and i have no idea where it went

# ? Dec 21, 2020 23:25

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

Poopernickel posted:

That's basically right, yeah. Arm Ltd. is a design shop that sells the schematics/fab instructions for ARM CPUs of various sizes and flavors. But they don't actually build and sell chips, only designs (and software). Chip vendors license the designs and customize them to include some vendor-specific stuff.

So lots of companies make ARM chips, and they all speak the same instruction set as other chips based on the same design (cortex-m0, aarch64, etc). But they generally are all patterned off of Arm's reference designs.

The assembly instructions are what define a CPU as an ARM basically - but companies need to buy the designs if they want to use the ARM trademark or Arm-provided compiler toolchains. But hypothetically, you could design an EchiCPU that ran the same assembly and produced the same result, and it would be an ARM except with a different name.

There are a ton of flavors of CPU that Arm Ltd. designs and licenses, from little microcontrollers for toys to 64-bit server CPUs. So Arm isn't one single instruction set - it's more like 4 or 5 instruction-sets with some commonality.

To expand on this, you can also licence the instruction set but make your own implementation from scratch instead of licensing ARM's actual implementation. This is what Apple does. Their poo poo is their own design.

As for making your own offbrand ARM cpu without licensing it - that's what patent law is for.

ALSO also its more like 3 different ISAs. Try running classic ARM on a Cortex-M that only runs Thumb and see where it gers you.

feedmegin fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Dec 21, 2020

# ? Dec 21, 2020 23:30

echinopsis: Apr 13, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

cool thanks that answers my questions

# ? Dec 22, 2020 00:16

rjmccall: Sep 7, 2007; no worries friend; Fun Shoe

feedmegin posted:

As for making your own offbrand ARM cpu without licensing it - that's what patent law is for.

it's actually unclear whether you can protect an instruction set as ip; afaik it's never been tested, at least in a case that went to trial. it would be very hard to get a defensible patent on an entire instruction set because there's nothing novel in most of it, and patent law specifically does not protect things necessary for interoperation. you might be able to patent specific novel instructions, or specific ideas in isa design like some vliw wonkiness. an instruction set probably would not be copyrightable because (1) it's an idea rather than a specific production of that idea and (2) unlike the oracle v. google situation, judges aren't likely to be confused into thinking that a textual description is the "thing"

feedmegin posted:

ALSO also its more like 3 different ISAs. Try running classic ARM on a Cortex-M that only runs Thumb and see where it gers you.

i didn't realize there were cores where the old arm instruction set wasn't available at all, i guess you can get away with that with thumb-2

# ? Dec 22, 2020 00:58

in a well actually: Jan 26, 2011; dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme

i don�t disagree about the improbability of defending an entire isa patent but i suspect arm has enough patents on subcomponents that it�d be nearly impossible to implement without infringement

there is a pc era anecdote about ibm coming after somebody for something very minor (on the order of a blinking cursor)

plucky startup spends a week investigating and has a follow up meeting where they prove they don�t infringe and even if we do here�s a non infringing implementation

ibm says ok; here�s a dozen more and we�ve got a library of these and the lawyers to keep doing this forever

ofc if you�re a national champion with a relaxed approach to ip you might have better luck telling western companies to gently caress off

# ? Dec 22, 2020 02:19

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

PCjr sidecar posted:

i don�t disagree about the improbability of defending an entire isa patent but i suspect arm has enough patents on subcomponents that it�d be nearly impossible to implement without infringement

Yeah it's this. Original ARM is probably old enough those patents are expired but then you're trying to sell your core that can't do Neon, Thumb or Aarch64 and ARM carefully keep their royalties low enough that selling your crippled chip for a couple of cents cheaper isn't interesting to any customers.

feedmegin fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Dec 23, 2020

# ? Dec 22, 2020 16:47

echinopsis: Apr 13, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

Lengthy Electronics Gimmick

# ? Dec 24, 2020 09:32

hifi: Jul 25, 2012

feedmegin posted:

Yeah it's this. Original ARM is probably old enough those patents are expired but then you're trying to sell your core that can't do Neon, Thumb or Aarch64 and ARM carefully keep their royalties low enough that selling your crippled chip for a couple of cents cheaper isn't interesting to any customers.

not going to janitor my bits.

# ? Dec 24, 2020 23:44

jesus WEP: Oct 17, 2004

thread title is funny but confusing, change to like Linux 365 for Business idk

# ? Dec 25, 2020 12:43

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

9/11 for Workgroups

# ? Dec 25, 2020 15:04