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Blockhouse posted:I feel like "The Joker has a storyline where he kills a thousand people every few months "is more a matter of perception than, like, things that actually happen in the comics. What was the last notable thing Joker story before Joker War? Looking at King's run there was War of Jokes and Riddles where both Joker and Riddler racked up he body count. There was also a few single issues leading up to the wedding where I think the Joker killed a bunch of people in a church. Before that was Snyder's run where there was Death in the Family including the Joker pretty much killing a third of the police force among others. Then the story arc where Joker kills a bunch of people and gets a cave dropped on him/loses his memory. Then the story arc where Joker gets his memory back and kills people. I can't speak for Detective Comics as I haven't read that in a while but Snyder definitely amped up Jokers blood list and it has been a through line straight to Joker War Edit: Batman not technically killing is probably most famously done in Batman Begins with the crashing train. I remember Bruce chastising Azrael for basically doing the same thing (refusing to save a villain) years earlier too. Madkal fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Dec 22, 2020 |
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Dec 22, 2020 01:26
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Also: Three Jokers.
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Dec 22, 2020 01:33
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BrianWilly posted:Also: Three Jokers. Oh yeah, a poo poo ton of people died in that and I didn't even really notice because Joker has killed so many people I've become desensitized to it. Clearly the solution is a story where Joker kills so many more people that I'm forced to recalibrate my understanding of Joker.
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Dec 22, 2020 01:39
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Vandar posted:I've recently starting watching Dr. Who, starting with Nine. I'm two seasons in and every couple episodes I swear I'm turning to the fiancee and going 'I thought the Doctor was supposed to be a pacifist?' That whole "man who never would" thing was total horseshit. The Doctor has killed a fuckin lot of people.
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Dec 22, 2020 02:06
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Rhyno posted:That whole "man who never would" thing was total horseshit. The Doctor has killed a fuckin lot of people. I think it's just trying to get around the problem of "all of our plots would be very easily solved if the main character just murked a guy in the first ten minutes, but then at the end we can't have this bad guy still running around at the end."
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Dec 22, 2020 02:16
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The doctor gives the antagonist a chance to save themselves. If they choose to continue to hurt others it is time for the judgement.
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Dec 22, 2020 02:59
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That episode where he sentenced an entire family to endless suffering was a thing.
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Dec 22, 2020 03:00
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Mr Hootington posted:The doctor gives the antagonist a chance to save themselves. If they choose to continue to hurt others it is time for the judgement. That's absolutely not pacifism. Also, given the current complaints about Joe Biden's wife calling herself a doctor, I'm starting to question whether The Doctor should be called a doctor. At least Jill Biden went to a school that got regularly audited about their accreditations.
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Dec 22, 2020 03:12
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNuHV-iLBRw
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Dec 22, 2020 03:12
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The Doctor is basically the Spectre with a quirky sidekick and a sense of humour.
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Dec 22, 2020 04:06
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Skwirl posted:That's absolutely not pacifism. It's his name though. This is like being upset at Wolf Blitzer for being a human.
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Dec 22, 2020 15:40
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geoff johns followup "three jokers..and a baby" looking solid
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Dec 22, 2020 17:27
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BrianWilly posted:The Liar Liar thing makes me zone out so hard it's like chloroform. At this point, the rabbit had honestly better turn out to be Dr. Psycho or something. Apparently it was just a rabbit. And maybe symbolic of Emma Lord's inner conflict or something? And good god, the whiplash to having the Amazon embassy be a thing when you could've been forgiven for thinking that they'd just ignored that Orlando set that up entirely for the last 3 arcs. Also, I know I said I was taking some time to clear my pallete, and I kinda did by reading a bunch of Black Panther and Spider-Man, so back to Oops All Amazons. I re-read Wonder Woman Year One plus am starting to go through the Perez run (I've read the early sections a couple of times, but not for years and years) and it's fascinating to do both with the hindsight of the rest of my little project. It's incredibly clear that the best of the later runs pull from the general tone and lore that Perez and his collaborators set up, and the worse ones just ignore that in a vain attempt to 'make WW relevant'. Simone used the Colltus, Rucka's original run pulled a lot from the door to the underworld under the island, Wilson's run pulled a lot on the mother-child themes that Perez made use of. (Also found it amusing that Rucka comes back, all of a sudden Io the blacksmith pops back up on Themyscira, always wearing her apron so you can tell it's her) Year One is also hella gay, but in that way where I can feel DC editorial standing over Nicola Scott's drawing table in case she drew two women holding hands in a way that was too les. We got the mentioned-earlier--in-the-thread mention of Diana's ex back home, a bunch of Amazons including the afore-mentioned Io drooling over Diana (which seems a little weird when they'd all have watched her grow up... I dunno...), Etta and Cheetah flirting, and Diana's two moms. It is however very clear that DC are cool with WW being queer in the way that lets them get cred for being progressive but any depiction of her actually romantically involved with a woman is basically off-limits. (The one scene she has with Kasia, her apparent gf on the island, is explicitly presented in dialogue with the other women being unsure if they're even a couple, and it's only confirmed they were several issues later when Diana's alone) Perez's first doze or so issues are incredibly tight, barring some slightly clumsy go-to turns of phrase that remind me of Simon Furman's Transformers, and a really unfortunate depiction of Barbara Minerva's manservant as a completely cringeworthy Indian stereotype. That part is probably the one really problematic element in the whole of that early run. You can argue that they could've done better in terms of ethnic diversity among the Amazons, but I'd chalk that up to unconscious bias on the creative team's part. Euboea and Phillipus are two of the more prominent Amazons and are clearly not white, it's just a little disappointing that that attention didn't extend to background characters. Just everything in the run is done with a purpose in terms of reinventing and updating the concept and tying everything together with a stronger, more rounded connection to the myths, setting up the Bana Mighdall in like the first issue, the stuff with Diana Trevor, weaving the older Trevor into things to keep him in play but sidestepping the temptation to make the whole book about Wonder Woman and Her Boyfriend (read any Silver Age WW issue and I promise you the plot is 'WW has to avoid Steve proposing or she'll have to become a homemaker'). Even Vanessa Kapetelis is much less annoying than that type of kid character can tend towards. And Myndi Mayer is a supporting character that I wish made it into more retellings/adaptations. The simplicity of having Diana meet this cut-throat media agent... and she's actually on the level about wanting to help Diana get her message out and help the world, is kind of delightful.
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Dec 22, 2020 23:56
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 Krypto a good dog.
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Dec 23, 2020 05:50
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Why is Superman being a dick
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Dec 23, 2020 06:01
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That's superboy prime.
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Dec 23, 2020 06:03
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Oh, checks out then
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Dec 23, 2020 06:12
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Xelkelvos posted:
Sigh, why is SBP back and why doesn't Krypto remember that SBP smacked the hell out of him? Oh wait that's like five reboots ago, gently caress I'm old.
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Dec 23, 2020 07:28
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Heh, I do like that they've been trying to redeem Superboy-Prime in Death Metal. Although this issue of...hell, I don't remember the name anymore, Dark Knights Death Metal Tie In #12 Multiverse Origins Crisis Shebang or whatever...this issue of it still suffered a lot from not only being the umpteenth time Johns put Superboy-Prime to rest, and not only being the umpteenth time Johns put Superboy-Prime to rest in an incredibly meta way, but also Geoff Johns complaining yet again for the umpteenth about all these weird meta Crisis reboot repeats...that he himself is responsible for! Hell, he's the one who brought Prime back in the Shazam book, and now he has Prime complaining about stories being rebooted all the time! Just to recap, the book literally recounts Superboy-Prime's origin story again, and not even again but by the same exact writer who did it last time, and then has the gall to charge us money to read a story about someone who's complaining that all these stories have been done before, while doing the same story again. It's like a mobius wheel of self-owning. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Dec 23, 2020 |
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Dec 23, 2020 07:52
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What is Superboy Prime's whole deal? Basically all I know is he's an even more powerful Superman that gets super angry about comics and tears off people's arms.
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Dec 23, 2020 08:01
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Skwirl posted:What is Superboy Prime's whole deal? Basically all I know is he's an even more powerful Superman that gets super angry about comics and tears off people's arms. He's the Superman of Earth-Prime, which was originally supposed to be our Earth, but it was destroyed in the Crisis so at this point it's just generic earth where our world's comics exist. He was in a pretty good late issue of DCCP (several pages of which are recreated panel for panel in the special) and then was a supporting character in Crisis on Infinite Earths. Infinite Crisis gave three* characters a really dumb heel turn, and since his was the dumbest he wound up surviving that series and going on to, like most line-wide DC Villains, become a straw man for fan criticisms the writers disagree with. (See also Parallax). He's equivalent to the Earth-1 Superman at his peak, which makes him more powerful than most post-crisis interpretations, but he doesn't have the super-intellect. Quite the opposite. Kurt Busiek's Secret Identity is the best version of the concept. *: Kal-L was more a dupe turn I guess. Thranguy fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Dec 23, 2020 |
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Dec 23, 2020 08:21
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What, you've never read the seminal iconic epic vital comic book masterpiece Infinite Crisis? Well apparently you're in luck because this critical tie-in, Dark Knights: Death Metal: Something Something #1, provides all the answers to your burning questions~ He was introduced back in the original Crisis on Infinite Earths as a Superboy from Earth-Prime, which was ostensibly the "real world," our world, that didn't actually have any superpowers in it. He ended up one of the few characters who "survived" CoIE by going with the original Earth-2 Superman into a heaven-like dimension and stayed there throughout Post-Crisis. Geoff Johns brought him back twenty years later in Infinite Crisis, and he ended up becoming an actual antagonist because he didn't like how dark this universe had become and then accidentally ended up killing some Titans, if by "accidentally" you mean "ripped off their limbs" and by "limbs" you mean "heads" but also "limbs." He became a sort of allegorical stand-in for whiny teenagers who didn't like the way their comics were going, and then that just got flanderized further and further until that was his only character trait, and they -- mostly Johns, but also some others -- kept bringing him back when they needed some 'roided out villain to rant and 'roid out about something. I do like this plot beat in Death Metal where Wonder Woman tries to turn him back to the decent kid that he originally was, but...yeah. This isn't the first time they tried to redeem him, and this isn't even the first time that this writer has tried to redeem him.
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Dec 23, 2020 08:23
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Superboy prime punched himself so hard he teleported back to a now reformed esrth-prime where everyone hated him because they read the comic books that he committed his genocides in. Then the writers wrote that during blackest night superboy-prime would be killed by those he murdered so superboy-prime flew to Manhattan and threatened to kill all DC comics writers
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Dec 23, 2020 09:43
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Secret Identity is the best Superboy-Prime story.
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Dec 23, 2020 09:52
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Bendis' Superman/Action Comics run is finished! I think a lot of people were down on it because he aged up Jon, but I can't imagine people having trouble with how he characterized his Superman as an older, thoughtful superhero on the center stage of his world. It'd be better if it was longer and if Bendis didn't have to jump through other people's hoops (Apex Lex and some Doomsday Clock shenanigans) and some inconsistant art on Action Comics but I loved it.
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Dec 23, 2020 14:20
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Vandar posted:I've recently starting watching Dr. Who, starting with Nine. I'm two seasons in and every couple episodes I swear I'm turning to the fiancee and going 'I thought the Doctor was supposed to be a pacifist?' Not really - the Doctor's thing is that he gives the bad guy a chance to stop or redeem themselves and won't strike first, but is OK with using violence to protect lives, but would rather use peaceful options.The new series brings in a 'the Doctor doesn't use guns' thing for reasons you'll see, but the classic series was OK with the Doctor being a little more morally grey: such as wanting to bash a caveman's brains in with a rock, shooting a dalek mutant with a handgun, and kinda sorta pushing a guy into a pit of acid. Similar issue with Batman, who wants to protect the innocent and hates guns, but we kind of have to gloss over that fact that thugs getting beaten up by a trained martial arts expert probably means that Batman is causing serious long term damage to someone. It's part of the character, just roll with it. Golden Age Batman was even more amoral, and the style of writing and art of the time makes him seem very, very casual about violence. Like there's an early issue where he hangs one of the monster men from his plane, killing him, and his response is "He's probably better off this way". Golden Age Batman was ice cold, man.
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Dec 23, 2020 21:35
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BrianWilly posted:What, you've never read the seminal iconic epic vital comic book masterpiece Infinite Crisis? Well apparently you're in luck because this critical tie-in, Dark Knights: Death Metal: Something Something #1, provides all the answers to your burning questions~ Its kind of incredible what sort of narratives can emerge from an unending string of retcons, reboots, conflicting creative decisions and just, in general, real weird poo poo.
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Dec 23, 2020 23:10
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MechanicalTomPetty posted:Its kind of incredible what sort of narratives can emerge from an unending string of retcons, reboots, conflicting creative decisions and just, in general, real weird poo poo. DC Comics.txt
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Dec 23, 2020 23:27
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I actually really liked the Superboy-Prime issue 🤷♂️
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Dec 24, 2020 02:49
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Okay, but if Earth-Prime was supposed to be just our Earth, why does it have a Superboy. I have to believe our earth would be a lot loving different if we had a Superboy.
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Dec 24, 2020 03:08
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He discovered his powers and then basically immediately got pulled into CoIE. His...personality...such as it is, has been molded a lot by the fact that he's just a kid -- a silver age kid character, at that -- who didn't have much experience in anything before being thrown into all these cosmic shenanigans with silver age Superman-level powers. I mean, I'm making it sound kinda nuanced, and there are instances where this comes through, but then for the most part there's really just this stuff:  (...I...don't even remember who this other guy is)
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Dec 24, 2020 03:16
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Cartridgeblowers posted:I actually really liked the Superboy-Prime issue 🤷♂️ I did too. I wasn't reading comics at the time of Infinite Crisis though so I'm probably not as burned on the character as others here. e: I really appreciate him rightfully calling the Batman Who Laughs lame as poo poo TwoPair fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Dec 24, 2020 |
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Dec 24, 2020 03:44
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BrianWilly posted:He discovered his powers and then basically immediately got pulled into CoIE. That is Monarch. The 3rd one i guess.
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Dec 24, 2020 04:06
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TwoPair posted:e: I really appreciate him rightfully calling the Batman Who Laughs lame as poo poo Johns's pet villain calling out Snyder's pet villain is really funny.
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Dec 24, 2020 05:25
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Xelkelvos posted:Johns's pet villain calling out Snyder's pet villain is really funny. I look forward to someone else putting them both into some Edge-Lord Justice League variant.
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Dec 24, 2020 07:15
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I almost entirely dropped DC for Marvel at Rebirth and I gotta say, I like how the narrative boxes of Supes-Prime paints him as a guy who implicitly gave up with DC because he can't stop editorial from just bringing back the characters he kills or rebooting the universe every few years. I also like how 2000s Superboy threatens to beat Prime up and so he leaves and shatters a god with the reality break. BrianWilly posted:Geoff Johns brought him back twenty years later in Infinite Crisis, and he ended up becoming an actual antagonist because he didn't like how dark this universe had become and then accidentally ended up killing some Titans, if by "accidentally" you mean "ripped off their limbs" and by "limbs" you mean "heads" but also "limbs." He became a sort of allegorical stand-in for whiny teenagers who didn't like the way their comics were going, and then that just got flanderized further and further until that was his only character trait, and they -- mostly Johns, but also some others -- kept bringing him back when they needed some 'roided out villain to rant and 'roid out about something. On the other hand , I also think that the "Monster At The End of This Book" metajokes that come with Earth-Prime, such as Prime reading the exact same book you're reading and then reaching the same page you're on and looking at you, is funny enough that it's part of what has kept me interested in reading anything that character is in no matter how bad it is. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Dec 24, 2020 |
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Dec 24, 2020 08:37
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I can not tell if any of this stuff is a joke but I'm about to read all the crisis books for the first time.
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Dec 24, 2020 11:23
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RBX posted:I can not tell if any of this stuff is a joke but I'm about to read all the crisis books for the first time. I hope you enjoy them, but also I'm begging you to skip Countdown! (It has 'Crisis' in the name. For most of the run, at least.)
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Dec 24, 2020 13:38
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JordanKai posted:I hope you enjoy them, but also I'm begging you to skip Countdown! Countdown is one of the few DC books so terrible that I couldn’t finish it, and it blatantly contradicts Final Crisis. It doesn’t even do the job of leading into the crossover it’s supposedly setting up.
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Dec 24, 2020 13:50
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Oh noooo just the TPBs of each. I don't usually waste my time with the extra unless overwhelmingly told to.
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Dec 24, 2020 14:46
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