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Captain Splendid posted:I hope Timmy's mug is still intact The booooooze!
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Dec 24, 2020 15:31
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The Saddest Robot posted:Why would you bother with stealth rocks when you have stealth warships and stealth nukes? Why would anyone capable of creating stealth composites opt to strike using weapons of mass indiscriminate killing that can't be aimed at military targets? If you ever did opt to use them in a first strike capacity what are your plans for dealing with retaliatory strikes? Rocks are cheap. I suppose we are meant to see it is actually pretty difficult to smuggle all of the year that they already have and rocks are free to belters. Inspiration here doubtless drawn from The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress which I'd recommend reading.
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Dec 24, 2020 15:32
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The key part of that is: Stealth Asteroids don't make sense for a military to use.
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Dec 24, 2020 15:37
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Sci Fi fans are always getting super horny for throwing space rocks around but never think of the logistics of it. It took Marco a huge amount of time, planning and resources to get 3 rocks into earth and that was mostly because the UN shut out the one person who had inside knowlage of the Belters and what they were capable of. Its from 40k but its always what go to when nerds go "why have space lasers/missiles/railguns? There's lots of free rocks around" Rocks are NOT ‘free’, citizen. Firstly, you must maneuver the Emperor’s naval vessel within the asteroid belt, almost assuredly sustaining damage to the Emperor’s ship’s paint from micrometeoroids, while expending the Emperor’s fuel. Then the Tech Priests must inspect the rock in question to ascertain its worthiness to do the Emperor’s bidding. Should it pass muster, the Emperor’s Servitors must use the Emperor’s auto-scrapers and melta-cutters to prepare the potential ordinance for movement. Finally, the Tech Priests finished, the Emperor’s officers may begin maneuvering the Emperor’s warship to abut the asteroid at the prepared face (expending yet more of the Emperor’s fuel), and then begin boosting the stone towards the offensive planet. After a few days of expending a prodigious amount of the Emperor’s fuel to accelerate the asteroid into an orbit more fitting to the Emperor’s desires, the Emperor’s ship may then return to the planet via superluminous warp travel and await the arrival of the stone, still many weeks (or months) away. After twiddling away the Emperor’s time and eating the Emperor’s food in the wasteful pursuit of making sure that the Emperor’s enemies do not launch a deflection mission, they may finally watch the ordinance impact the planet (assuming that the Emperor’s ship does not need to attempt any last-minute course correction upon the rock, using yet more of the Emperor’s fuel). Given a typical (class Bravo-CVII) system, we have the following: Two months, O&M, Titan class warship: 4.2 Million Imperials Two months, rations, crew of same: 0.2 MI Two months, Tech Priest pastor: 1.7 MI Two months, Servitor parish: 0.3 MI Paint, Titan class warship: 2.5 MI Dihydrogen peroxide fuel: 0.9 MI Total: 9.8 MI Contrasted with the following: 5 warheads, magna-melta: 2.5 MI One day, O&M, Titan class warship: 0.3 MI One day, rations, crew of same: 0.0 MI Dihydrogen peroxide fuel: 0.1 MI Total: 2.9 MI Given the same result with under one third of the cost, the Emperor will have saved a massive amount of His most sacred money and almost a full month of time, during which His warship may be bombarding an entirely different planet. The Emperor, through this – His Office of Imperial Outlays – hereby orders you to attend one (1) week of therapeutic accountancy training/penance. Please report to Areicon IV, Imperial City, Administratum Building CXXI, Room 1456, where you are to sit in the BLUE chair. For the Emperor, Bursarius Tenathis, Purser Level XI, Imperial Office of Outlays.
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Dec 24, 2020 15:42
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Taintrunner posted:This is ahistorical and delusional. The “carefully crafted response plan” from the incoming President is federally mandated superspreader events by reopening schools after maybe vaccinating less than a third of the country. The terrible state of labor rights, the brutal austerity fetishism, and the insistence on denying healthcare to poor people by any means necessary are what led to the current nightmare we’re going through. I’m not talking about the incoming president, I’m talking about the plan the former president put up that the current president decided to poo poo all over all while inciting his cult to go out and do the exact opposite of what authorities like the WHO and NIH etc said to do because it’s simultaneously a hoax, a deep state conspiracy to take away people’s “freedoms,” and also a bio attack from China. The UK response was initially lol some people are just going to have to die until here immunity is achieved. Taiwan on the other hand recognized the threat and danger before the majority of the world even heard of the word coronavirus and took the appropriate steps and essentially stomped it out, all without having to literally weld people’s doors shut to prevent them from leaving.
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Dec 24, 2020 15:53
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I’d like more of this please.
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Dec 24, 2020 15:55
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Fister Roboto posted:One of the very first scenes of the entire series - Avasarala interrogating a Belter about why he was smuggling stealth tech - was part of the buildup to this season. I dont get the timeline. Why would this be so early in the show? I thought they were only able to buy Mars tech after the ring gate opened and Mars started dismantling their navy. What was Marcos even planning for before the gate network appeared?
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Dec 24, 2020 15:56
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Stealth-rocks feel like such a crazy solution to the problem of war though. They're both super high tech and super low tech - why use dumb projectiles when you can have crazy multi warhead nukes and stealth alien super soldiers? But also rocks are just a massively unsubtle hammer, there's no tactical use for them other than "smash some vague chunk of a planet". I absolutely buy that nobody would have seriously considered them as a possibilty - they're either dumb and useless, or genocidally deranged. It’s not just a miserable plan, it was poorly executed. Having the stealth coating means having a big enough military budget to develop it through R&D, and if you have that, better to use it on actual weapons. And cheaper, too, because you can get a much bigger explosive yield on a much smaller object, and you can get lots more objects. But on top of that, once the first rock hits someone’s going to be working out why they couldn’t detect it, and you’re only going to get a few more hits before they’re stopped. That means if your goal is to devastate the planet, you need to launch your attack as a time on target attack, so the rocks hit as close as is possible to simultaneously, and Inaros either opted not to, or wasn’t able to pull it off. That means the attack is massively less effective than a missile strike. Also, it has to be launched well in advance, and once started the only way to call off the attack is to blow up the stealth rocks or reveal their positions so Earth can. Contrast with the missiles, which could be remotely disarmed, detonated, or redirected. A leader who cared about the Belt, and not just himself, wouldn’t have launched this attack. But if it’s part of a Martian military coup, the consequences will potentially be good for Mars, for some values of “good.” DaveKap posted:It always bothers me whenever a new technique of battle happens in a science fiction film and people ask this question. I had to have such a long conversation after Star Wars Episode 8 with one friend who was insistent that if throwing vessels at warp speed could take down an armada, it would've been developed and done prior to the time it happens in the movie. People, there's always a first time for everything. This is just the first time. That was also a dumb plan. You produce a large and expensive military vessel, then evacuate all the crew after arriving at a battle area, somehow have the ship survive once it can no longer fire defensively, aim it at an enemy vessel far enough away that you might miss, and jump to lightspeed hoping that incoming fire doesn’t destroy you before impact. If the First Order hadn’t implausibly made its ships ridiculously big, or been willing to overwhelm the fleeing Resistance with fighters, or been smart enough to pursue a handful of ships with a smaller fleet, the Holdo maneuver would have been nearly useless. For that matter, in any normal combat this desperate, you’d either jump away (because nobody can track you) or be unable to jump at all because of Interdictor crusiers or a gravity well. It’s telling that none of the same people objected to the “hyperjump past a planet’s shields” in Force Awakens. If you can do that, the Empire should have built a bunch of hyperdrive-equipped missiles for their planet-destroyer, or just thrown hyperdrives on big rocks and jumped them past planetary shields to impact planets at near-light speed. Much cheaper than the Death Star and harder to defend against. BrotherJayne posted:Kk. With it all up blacked like it is now, is that the correct way to do a "spoiler" that is a concurrent book element? If you don’t indicate that the spoiler is a book spoiler, by saying “this is a book spoiler” before the spoiler tag, nobody can see it is a book spoiler without revealing the spoiler, at which point it is too late to avoid revealing it because you are trying to avoid book spoilers. “Leave the context out” doesn’t mean “don’t provide context for your spoilers”, it means “don’t hide the context for your spoiler inside the spoiler, leave it exposed so people can identify your spoiler and avoid it if they want.”
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Dec 24, 2020 15:57
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banned from Starbucks posted:I dont get the timeline. Why would this be so early in the show? I thought they were only able to buy Mars tech after the ring gate opened and Mars started dismantling their navy. What was Marcos even planning for before the gate network appeared? They were stealing and smuggling it at the start of the show. After the Mars economy collapsed, they were straight up buying it and having it delivered from the top brass.
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Dec 24, 2020 16:02
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TraderStav posted:I’d like more of this please.
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Dec 24, 2020 16:22
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Narsham posted:If you don’t indicate that the spoiler is a book spoiler, by saying “this is a book spoiler” before the spoiler tag, nobody can see it is a book spoiler without revealing the spoiler, at which point it is too late to avoid revealing it because you are trying to avoid book spoilers. “Leave the context out” doesn’t mean “don’t provide context for your spoilers”, it means “don’t hide the context for your spoiler inside the spoiler, leave it exposed so people can identify your spoiler and avoid it if they want.” That's how I had it before it got mod edited. Damned if i do, damned if I don't Coming back to this forum after 15 years was a mistake. gently caress everything
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Dec 24, 2020 16:26
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Boris Galerkin posted:I’m not talking about the incoming president, I’m talking about the plan the former president put up that the current president decided to poo poo all over all while inciting his cult to go out and do the exact opposite of what authorities like the WHO and NIH etc said to do because it’s simultaneously a hoax, a deep state conspiracy to take away people’s “freedoms,” and also a bio attack from China. Again, there was no “plan” that isn’t brutal austerity and corporate handouts while the virus rips through the poor and overloads the ICUs. You’re imagining a “plan” that simply doesn’t exist, because it doesn’t account for the structural flaws in our economy that are focused on crushing the poor, or the fact that leaders like Newsom and Cuomo have done nothing but what I’ve just described, the latter having killed thousands by ramming the infected into nursing homes. Hillary is not Avasarala, much less Lily Gao who finally listened to reason after the worst has happened. This outcome America is going through now was inevitable regardless of who the President was. The bipartisan consensus on brutal austerity and denying poor people healthcare for decades made a Taiwan-type scenario you’re dreaming impossible, because a serious, enforced lockdown and paying people so they can stay home is heretical in the eyes of your supposed “smart people.” The logic they’re going with is that wearing a mask and staying six feet away is all we need, when in reality, the only solution is a forced national lockdown, paying people to stay home, and only allowing people to go out for essentials while wearing a mask and social distancing. There has been no fight for that solution, the only solution, from your supposed “smart people.”
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Dec 24, 2020 16:31
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Comes into thread after watching latest episode
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Dec 24, 2020 16:44
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It's at least a better take than the discussion about her tits.
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Dec 24, 2020 17:02
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It’s worth bearing in mind that there’s also symbolic value in using simple rocks from the belt to devastate the cradle of humanity. This attack, remember, was as much about symbol and message as military strategy.
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Dec 24, 2020 17:06
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Yeah we might as well be asking why no real world military has never flown passenger jets into skyscrapers as an attack.
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Dec 24, 2020 17:11
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The fact that Inaros plan was being prepared even before the ring gates were opened is a pretty clear indication that he never really cared about creating a better existence for belters. It was always just about hurting inners, whatever the consequences, and the justifications were made to support that desire
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Dec 24, 2020 17:19
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hump day bitches! posted:Inaros has basically declared war on all mankind last episode.My dude is swinging for the fences, and has put himself in such a position he has no room to make mistakes.He needs to be perfect every time, the rest of the system only needs to be lucky once. He's already made three fatal mistakes. Avasarala, Drummer and Amos are still alive...
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Dec 24, 2020 17:50
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twistedmentat posted:Given a typical (class Bravo-CVII) system, we have the following: With all due respect, many of those costs would be incurred whether the Emperor's warship was wrangling weaponized rocks or bombarding an entirely different planet. Presumably the Emperor finds it prudent to feed His crews and maintain His warships regardless of what kind of activities they are undertaking on His behalf.
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Dec 24, 2020 18:00
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withak posted:With all due respect, many of those costs would be incurred whether the Emperor's warship was wrangling weaponized rocks or bombarding an entirely different planet. Presumably the Emperor finds it prudent to feed His crews and maintain His warships regardless of what kind of activities they are undertaking on His behalf.
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Dec 24, 2020 18:05
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Sir, I have included two proposals for attacks on the enemy. I. A long range simultaneous nuclear strike on targets of interest using undetectable stealth missiles. The operation will take 5 hours from launch to impact. II. We will build stealth trebuchets and maneuver them over the ground until they encounter a village. Then the stealth trebuchets will fling a dirty nuke at the village. The operation will take 6 months to 2 years.
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Dec 24, 2020 18:13
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withak posted:With all due respect, many of those costs would be incurred whether the Emperor's warship was wrangling weaponized rocks or bombarding an entirely different planet. Presumably the Emperor finds it prudent to feed His crews and maintain His warships regardless of what kind of activities they are undertaking on His behalf. but the Emperor doesn't want to pay those costs for substandard results
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Dec 24, 2020 18:14
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Erulisse posted:Is it said that they are already settled, with results, on these planets? Missed that part. There are planets that people can live on, but growing food there is a little more complicated. What makes Earth important isn't just that it is a stable biosphere, but it is a stable biosphere where the biology suits the needs of humans. In the books, Marco is saying that the new planets are going to wipe out belters, because they have gravity and belters can't live on them. he never really thinks about the viability of them, the fact that they exist at all is bad enough.
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Dec 24, 2020 18:30
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And a biosphere with a massive width. The newly settled planets have a much smaller biodiversity (that is useful, or even just hospitable to human life) because the settlers obviously didn't bring 300 kinds of crops to plant.
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Dec 24, 2020 18:33
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Nobody learned anything from Ganymede's cascade
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Dec 24, 2020 18:36
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The Saddest Robot posted:The key part of that is: Right. That's why you have weapons. Most asteroids are useless for it too, they'd fall apart if you pushed on them. As an improvised weapon for asymmetrical warfare, there's a case to make. As a weapon for a military that can just manufacture fusion warheads? Waste of time. banned from Starbucks posted:I dont get the timeline. Why would this be so early in the show? I thought they were only able to buy Mars tech after the ring gate opened and Mars started dismantling their navy. What was Marcos even planning for before the gate network appeared? Marco's been wanting to strike the inners forever. He's had plots going for years and years, he was already blowing up ships with Naomi as a teenager. The gates finally gave him the chance to do it for real. They also specifically mention the Inaros faction in S1, the name just didn't mean anything if you didn't know the books.
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Dec 24, 2020 19:01
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The Saddest Robot posted:
https://youtu.be/UQ26GjG69fk
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Dec 24, 2020 19:04
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Lmao i thought the same thing but wow that video title is fuckin weird
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Dec 24, 2020 19:36
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I didn't think the stealth coating was specifically for asteroids. I figured it was the same stuff that they put on their missile defense platforms from season 2. Marco just got a hold of it and spray painted some asteroids with it. Stealth asteroids as a weapon? Not great. But stealth in a can that you can just spray paint onto anything? That's some poo poo right there.
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Dec 24, 2020 19:48
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Defiance Industries posted:There are planets that people can live on, but growing food there is a little more complicated. What makes Earth important isn't just that it is a stable biosphere, but it is a stable biosphere where the biology suits the needs of humans. it seems to me that unlike mars you'd still need the outer planets since it's way easier to ship your resources in from the belt or even jupiter than across two entire solar systems
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Dec 24, 2020 19:49
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Maybe the belters should get their poo poo together and build some O'Neill cylinders
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Dec 24, 2020 20:21
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LegoMan posted:Lmao i thought the same thing but wow that video title is fuckin weird Yeah, I couldn't find another specific to the scene
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Dec 24, 2020 20:22
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Wheeee posted:Maybe the belters should get their poo poo together and build some O'Neill cylinders And steal from Mars/Earth?!
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Dec 24, 2020 20:39
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Wheeee posted:Maybe the belters should get their poo poo together and build some O'Neill cylinders Loooong loooong Nauvoo
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Dec 24, 2020 21:02
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BrotherJayne posted:Kk. With it all up blacked like it is now, is that the correct way to do a "spoiler" that is a concurrent book element? the full  spoiler thread is here https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3896644just so book nerds can go apeshit without having this discussion every page
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Dec 24, 2020 22:14
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You had me at stealth trebuchets 
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Dec 24, 2020 22:28
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twistedmentat posted:Sci Fi fans are always getting super horny for throwing space rocks around but never think of the logistics of it. It took Marco a huge amount of time, planning and resources to get 3 rocks into earth and that was mostly because the UN shut out the one person who had inside knowlage of the Belters and what they were capable of. This is rad. I don't know anything about warhammer, but it's rad.
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Dec 24, 2020 22:31
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Marco throwing the asteroids makes perfect sense, if you consider that the Free Navy has extremely limited resources and can't risk throwing away personnel and far more valuable ships on a suicide bombardment that would be immediately countered/obliterated by Earth's far superior navy. Being scattered about the solar system and their force projection being largely limited to hit & run/smash & grab attacks, they can't exactly go full exterminatus on dah innahs. Also, minor pet peeve, all these space people talking about the "world" when they're talking about the solar system drives me wild. You're not all one just one world anymore! You're on multiple, most of them in the solar system!
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Dec 24, 2020 22:41
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We still use idioms like "the sky's the limit" in 2020 even though it very obviously is not and there are people living full time on the other side of it, it's just language. Language is for communicating concepts to other humans, if they get what you mean why does it matter if it's not 100% perfectly descriptive?
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Dec 24, 2020 22:52
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Crazycryodude posted:We still use idioms like "the sky's the limit" in 2020 even though it very obviously is not and there are people living full time on the other side of it, it's just language. Language is for communicating concepts to other humans, if they get what you mean why does it matter if it's not 100% perfectly descriptive? Really, dude needs to hold his horses.
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Dec 24, 2020 22:56
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