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Oh is that what's going on? The failure of Sanders, the destruction of Corbyn, and the victory of police over the BLM movement have shown people that the nascent leftist movement we all invested so much mental energy into was illusory? We were never even close to seizing power, that "off-ramp" from society's current destructive course didn't exist. And rather than face that fact some people would rather blame the people who made them think maybe we had a chance?
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Dec 24, 2020 23:12
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Lady Militant posted:how stupid do you need to be to read yasha's entire piece and come away with that lol lol why the gently caress would I read that entire piece? I skimmed it until I got to that picture caption and realized that it was dumb as hell.
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Dec 24, 2020 23:13
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Gripweed posted:Oh is that what's going on? The failure of Sanders, the destruction of Corbyn, and the victory of police over the BLM movement have shown people that the nascent leftist movement we all invested so much mental energy into was illusory? We were never even close to seizing power, that "off-ramp" from society's current destructive course didn't exist. And rather than face that fact some people would rather blame the people who made them think maybe we had a chance? the Labor guy purged everyone who was for Corbyn and is basically running track for the Tories as a non-party for their wiles lmao back to Blairism, back to the same old poo poo
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Dec 24, 2020 23:14
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Gripweed posted:lol why the gently caress would I read that entire piece? I skimmed it until I got to that picture caption and realized that it was dumb as hell. it's not even that long dude, grats on having a reading level lower than the average 4th grader
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Dec 24, 2020 23:14
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That whole group of guys Levine, Taibbi, Ames, Blumenthal actually do alot of good work and also really stupid and bad opinions from time to time.
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Dec 24, 2020 23:14
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Lady Militant posted:it's not even that long dude, grats on having a reading level lower than the average 4th grader As I said, I didn't finish it because I realized part way through it was pointless. I'm sorry I didn't like your friends blog.
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Dec 24, 2020 23:15
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Gripweed posted:Oh is that what's going on? The failure of Sanders, the destruction of Corbyn, and the victory of police over the BLM movement have shown people that the nascent leftist movement we all invested so much mental energy into was illusory? We were never even close to seizing power, that "off-ramp" from society's current destructive course didn't exist. And rather than face that fact some people would rather blame the people who made them think maybe we had a chance? he's not blaming them. he's emphasizing how depressing it is that all that hope, energy, and money ultimately ended up doing nothing but creating a new media ecosystem and that those movements were squashed out so thoroughly that it's almost as if nothing ever happened.
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Dec 24, 2020 23:16
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Gripweed posted:As I said, I didn't finish it because I realized part way through it was pointless. if only you had this same instinct..with your posts!
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Dec 24, 2020 23:20
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I feel like, at in Bernie's case, it got squashed out so quickly to the punt of its line ît never even happened outs because of how many people went Vote Blue No Matter Who, instead of empowering ourselves, it was complet capitulation. Any pushback would signal that hey we're still here.
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Dec 24, 2020 23:21
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Yossarian-22 posted:This made me depressed https://yasha.substack.com/p/a-perfect-end-to-2020-for-the-left that's a good article. it really captures how i feel about the medicare for all floor vote hubbub: i guess i side with dore, but either way it's not the kind of thing to be so focused on and invested in right now
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Dec 24, 2020 23:21
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mcmagic posted:That whole group of guys Levine, Taibbi, Ames, Blumenthal actually do alot of good work and also really stupid and bad opinions from time to time. they're all good, they don't hit 100% but they hit enough times that they deserve the right to swing a few misses
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Dec 24, 2020 23:23
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Taintrunner posted:it's very funny because looking at our pandemic response and the looming threat of a climate apocalypse wiping out civilization as we know it, he's basically saying to just give up he's saying anything but that I understand you only became a leftist after Bernie shat out his guts, but some of us who have been around longer get some steel out of it
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Dec 24, 2020 23:24
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https://twitter.com/GeoffMiami/status/1342175186200784904 My political prediction is that Jimmy Dore endorses Josh Hawley in 2024.
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Dec 24, 2020 23:32
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Victory Position posted:he's saying anything but that I’ve been a communist for long before Bernie, lmao.
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Dec 24, 2020 23:32
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mcmagic posted:https://twitter.com/GeoffMiami/status/1342175186200784904 congratulations on being the stupidest person itt.
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Dec 24, 2020 23:32
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Yossarian-22 posted:This made me depressed https://yasha.substack.com/p/a-perfect-end-to-2020-for-the-left the jimmy dore stuff, outside of business, always read as a yearning to recreate the limbaugh listener for the left. mad as hell/terrifying their reps.
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Dec 24, 2020 23:35
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Homeless Friend posted:the jimmy dore stuff, outside of business, always read as a yearning to recreate the limbaugh listener for the left. mad as hell/terrifying their reps. Yeah we should just try and stop doing a thing that worked for well over 15 years
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Dec 24, 2020 23:39
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can't sell bone broth to poor sons o' bitches dore 
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Dec 24, 2020 23:41
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Taintrunner posted:I’ve been a communist for long before Bernie, lmao. No you weren’t
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Dec 24, 2020 23:53
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Algund Eenboom posted:No you weren’t Okay nerd
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Dec 24, 2020 23:54
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Homeless Friend posted:the jimmy dore stuff, outside of business, always read as a yearning to recreate the limbaugh listener for the left. mad as hell/terrifying their reps. if there was a vast network of rich class traitors willing to finance far left radio and give it the power of limbaugh i would be all for it, but in the absence of that i'm not sure it's possible
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Dec 25, 2020 00:02
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The problem with Yasha's piece, is that his premise isn't entirely wrong - yes, it is a bit twisted that there's a few individuals profiting off what should be a centralist and organized fund to take and wield power, and are essentially serving as sheepdogs for a pro-war, pro-austerity party currently helmed by a rapist who has destroyed the lives of millions both here and abroad. However his conclusion, is insane, wrong, and already been tried - the obscure radical communes of the 60s and 70s did not take or build power in any significant way. "Think globally, act locally" has done about as much for the revolution as it has climate change. Surrending the public square to the narratives of the neoliberal status quo will not do anything but, well, surrender. The other significant flaw is that conflating what Jimmy is doing with the rest is utterly wrong and an intentional misreading. Jimmy isn't simply saying "electoralism is a dead end, violent revolution now," he's showing it by using #ForceTheVote as an intentional litmus test - AOC ran as a Democrat, to work as a legislator, and is being asked to do simple politics 101 - and is publicly refusing to do so. The public faces of the Left, including many ex-Bernie campaign people that discovered new grifts and moved up the career ladder, that rolled over like dogs for Biden against the needs of the working people that so desperately need help - with 110 million Americans at risk of losing their homes in the next 2 months, which would fully collapse the country, btw - have now come back out of the woodwork with their shiny new merit badges and are now defending AOC refusing to do the loving thing she said she would do - risk being a 1-term representative (which is still likely if the Dems redistrict her seat out of existence) in order to throw bombs and raise hell, choosing instead to suck "Mama Bear's" toes and yammer about how "lobbying" Biden would be an "honor." - which is, again, another lie. She will not be lobbying Biden. Corporate lobbyists will be the only freaks he will be opening his door for. And she will tell you to vote for this same poo poo again in 4 years as everyone's lives get drastically worse, in exchange for yet again, loving nothing. And Jimmy is exposing her, The Squad, and the rest of the loving useless public faces of The Left that are defending her inaction, while calling for revolution. A hell of a lot more productive than retreating into obscuring and making vague calls to build power without detailing what that might actually represent.
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Dec 25, 2020 00:12
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podcast thread keeps podcast threading, excellent i think bernie running in the 90s would have worked
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Dec 25, 2020 00:17
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Taintrunner posted:The problem with Yasha's piece, is that his premise isn't entirely wrong - yes, it is a bit twisted that there's a few individuals profiting off what should be a centralist and organized fund to take and wield power, and are essentially serving as sheepdogs for a pro-war, pro-austerity party currently helmed by a rapist who has destroyed the lives of millions both here and abroad. However his conclusion, is insane, wrong, and already been tried - the obscure radical communes of the 60s and 70s did not take or build power in any significant way. sir,
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Dec 25, 2020 00:18
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T-man posted:podcast thread keeps podcast threading, excellent No way. He would've never been able to raise all that small dollar donor money in the 90s.
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Dec 25, 2020 00:19
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Lady Militant posted:yasha's probably one of the best writers on the left by a long shot. huge lol @ people getting mad for him correctly identifying that bernie campaign staffers have done very well for themselves post campaign where the majority of people who support bernie are eating poo poo so what. what does that mean. i genuinely don’t understand where this goes or what it implies
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Dec 25, 2020 00:28
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i agree mostly with yasha’s post, he’s not wrong, but it seems mostly written in despair and only really relevant to this exact moment, which will change. it’s just a very narrow snapshot into the end of a bad year, and also reeks of professional jealousy love yasha but lol i think he’s just venting. i am not gonna take that article too seriously. it is very true though that the entire AOC vs. jimmy dore debate is mostly an exercise in how little an organized left truly exists in the united states
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Dec 25, 2020 00:32
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Bernie's staffers all went and got various media jobs or podcasts or whatever but it's kind of hard to blame them when he just jumped into bed with Joe with what appears to be zero concessions. Really wish he did more after the primary loss, I feel like he had an army ready for him to make some demands but he just bent the knee and left his staffers out in the wind.
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Dec 25, 2020 00:44
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also somewhat unrelated but the yasha hate for greenwald has always been dumb as poo poo. mark ames at least seems to have mostly gotten over that. there’s just nothing really material to that rivalry other than personal dislike. if they thought he was beholden to omidyar in some secret way, the last year should have really dispelled that notion
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Dec 25, 2020 00:51
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i say swears online posted:you owe me $2500 bitch Stay in your fetid isle
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Dec 25, 2020 00:56
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I'm not sure what the Bernie people were supposed to do. It's not like Brie was a career political operative. She quit law and did some writing and then did the Bernie campaign and is now podcasting. What's an acceptable thing to do so she can keep food on her table?
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Dec 25, 2020 00:57
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cenotaph posted:I'm not sure what the Bernie people were supposed to do. It's not like Brie was a career political operative. She quit law and did some writing and then did the Bernie campaign and is now podcasting. What's an acceptable thing to do so she can keep food on her table? 3D print guns for the Revolution
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Dec 25, 2020 01:06
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Some one post the Zizek “take their money” clip
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Dec 25, 2020 01:09
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THS posted:also somewhat unrelated but the yasha hate for greenwald has always been dumb as poo poo. mark ames at least seems to have mostly gotten over that. there’s just nothing really material to that rivalry other than personal dislike. if they thought he was beholden to omidyar in some secret way, the last year should have really dispelled that notion mark ames still shits on greenwald a lot, mostly for his libertarian streak and for "privatizing" the snowden files rather than for the poo poo that the libs get mad at i differ from yasha too in that i don't really blame the bernie people for pursuing gigs in media but it's still somewhat depressing
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Dec 25, 2020 01:09
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3d printed guns are terrible. stockpiling AR-15s and training to use them is probably way more efficacious for the medium to long term
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Dec 25, 2020 01:10
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Yossarian-22 posted:mark ames still shits on greenwald a lot, mostly for his libertarian streak and for "privatizing" the snowden files rather than for the poo poo that the libs get mad at i understand his criticism about the snowden files but i truly believe greenwald is not cynical or hiding important stuff or anything like that. i get why greenwald did it the way he did, even though it could have been handled more openly. this is another thing that teeters into the realm of not only professional jealousy but also reading someone wrong initially and then not being able to re-evaluate them and stubbornly doubling down on being a jerk to someone who is broadly on your side
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Dec 25, 2020 01:13
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KomradeX posted:I feel like, at in Bernie's case, it got squashed out so quickly to the punt of its line ît never even happened outs because of how many people went Vote Blue No Matter Who, instead of empowering ourselves, it was complet capitulation. Any pushback would signal that hey we're still here. this is correct. “vote blue no matter who” won big in 2020. third party votes cratered despite record turnout. any possible leverage or representation or demands or anything the left could possibly desire are null and void because they all demonstrated they’d be willing to vote for whoever the democrats put up even if they’re a senile rapist white supremacist I can’t help but view #forcethevote as a scrambling attempt to try and gain some kind of support back with the people who have at least paid us lip service, and i support it on at least those grounds, but people need to recognize that the squad are more useful as celebrities than elected officials at this point
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Dec 25, 2020 01:14
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cenotaph posted:I'm not sure what the Bernie people were supposed to do. It's not like Brie was a career political operative. She quit law and did some writing and then did the Bernie campaign and is now podcasting. What's an acceptable thing to do so she can keep food on her table? i don't think yasha's article was meant as a moral critique of what this or that lefty media person does, with the aim of persuading the reader that these particular media people are the bad guys or should be doing something differently or whatever. i think it was just a relatively sober assessment of where the left is at right now. and, as THS said, yasha is more so providing us with a snapshot of the current, fleeting moment than anything else, and so his conclusions are only tentative as the situation will likely change
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Dec 25, 2020 01:17
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Christman's take is that this is different segments of lefty media personalities finding their audience lanes is the correct take.
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Dec 25, 2020 01:19
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i also think people need to not delude themselves on the democratic establishment being “terrified” of us or anything like this. in an alternate reality where AOC or Tlaib are completely different people, or more effective, or have been around longer and proven their chops, then maybe - but this whole debate is more elucidating about where people stand than it is serious tactical questions on what to do next with the supposed power we have the idea that there are enough people brave enough in congress to stand against pelosi and risk republicans appointing a speaker is a pure hypothetical. this is imagining a reality where we have an organized, disciplined left movement where there is not. it is the shades and mirrors of an online left huffing their own discourse and re-digesting that discourse into a narrative which isn’t bearing fruit it’s a really sad situation overall, but i’m still hopeful it can change and grow over time to something better
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Dec 25, 2020 01:20
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