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They should tell the real story, where an imperial superpower invades a region of city-states because they had been supporting rebellion against the empire's tyrants, only to be turned back by the ferocity of the region's resistance.
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Dec 26, 2020 01:19
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y'all are being too harsh on 300 (bunch of Prince of Persia fanboys I bet) perhaps you would change your minds if Snyder were to release a
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Dec 26, 2020 01:22
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Eva Green was pretty awesome in 300 - 2.
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Dec 26, 2020 01:25
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God, this movie is going to bomb and everyone will be pissed.
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Dec 26, 2020 01:28
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Judakel posted:God, this movie is going to bomb and everyone will be pissed. i dont think anything is inherently unfilmable, but probably dune gets pretty close lol
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Dec 26, 2020 01:31
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Carthag Tuek posted:i dont think anything is inherently unfilmable, but probably dune gets pretty close lol I'd be happy with the original if they didn't have that sound bullshit.
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Dec 26, 2020 01:32
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Carthag Tuek posted:i dont think anything is inherently unfilmable, but probably dune gets pretty close lol It doesn't help that he chose the most boring visual style for a franchise that is decidedly not "visually" boring.
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Dec 26, 2020 01:33
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The Snyderdome was made for derails like this, I’ve heard.
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Dec 26, 2020 01:36
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society will never get to the truth of whether 300 the film was satirical or sincere. even if you asked Snyder he'd probably say "oh, uh, yeah, that satire thing sounds cool. yeah I did that" and you wouldn't know if he's lying or just talking in that awkward dorky voice of his
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Dec 26, 2020 01:42
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Pirate Jet posted:The Snyderdome was made for derails like this, I’ve heard. 
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Dec 26, 2020 01:46
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Beachcomber posted:I'd be happy with the original if they didn't have that sound bullshit. Yeah that just comes off awkward. The cast and direction are great and the effects are fantastic, but it's too compressed for me. I don't want a lord of the rings, just a bit more space for the story to breathe.
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Dec 26, 2020 01:47
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Xerxes: "my mother's name is also Helle!"
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Dec 26, 2020 01:53
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I'd love to see a version of Lynch's Dune where he didn't have control wrested away from him but that'll likely never happen, and what's there, however awkward, is pretty intense stuff.
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Dec 26, 2020 02:02
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Schwarzwald posted:You know, I'm getting the impression that these Spartans are jerks. Literally the first thing we're told about them is that they kill babies and that is told with a shot from a camera nestled among the skulls of the babies they killed. It's really not subtle.
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Dec 26, 2020 02:19
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The Persian Empire was relatively progressive for the times and were beloved and welcomed by many in the world but famously despised by the Egyptians and the West, mostly Greeks and Romans. Herodotus wrote things about them considered propaganda and the perception of the Persians in 300 is incredibly accurate to what you would expect a Spartan commander preaching to his men before a battle. If the story of the Battle of Thermopylae is going to be told in a hyper exaggerated, borderline fantasy style from the Spartan perspective, its fairly appropriate. Now the intentions of that approach to the story in Millers work vs Snyders adaptation can be endlessly debated, but I think theres a clear distinction between them.
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Dec 26, 2020 02:45
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It would definitely be possible to make great movies from Spartan propaganda that don't glorify fascism, highlighting the differences between historical facts and historical fiction, etc. Even Miller's version of the Thermopylae story could be told in such a way. Snyder's adaptation is a facile reproduction of the comic book. There are no layers. Same with Rodriguez' version of Sin City. They're frame by frame of Miller, which admittedly looks great, but unfortunately they don't comment on the material at all & become mouthpieces for his fascist thought.
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Dec 26, 2020 03:11
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Carthag Tuek posted:It would definitely be possible to make great movies from Spartan propaganda that don't glorify fascism, highlighting the differences between historical facts and historical fiction, etc. Even Miller's version of the Thermopylae story could be told in such a way. 
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Dec 26, 2020 03:19
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Carthag Tuek posted:You could probably argue that it was satire if it was made by Verhoeven, but it's not. Lol “If I was Paul Verhoeven, and I had made this movie, I probably would have won the fricking festival with it,” he laughs. “Because everyone would be like, ‘Oh my God, it’s genius.'”
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Dec 26, 2020 03:28
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MacheteZombie posted:Lol Yeah sorry that was badly worded. I wanted to say that another director, such as Verhoeven, would have subverted the material, but Snyder did not. My bad. See my following posts for details.
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Dec 26, 2020 03:42
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Carthag Tuek posted:Yeah sorry that was badly worded. I wanted to say that another director, such as Verhoeven, would have subverted the material, but Snyder did not. My bad. See my following posts for details. Carthag Tuek posted:Snyder's adaptation is a facile reproduction of the comic book...They're frame by frame of Miller This specifically isn't true. Quite a bit is added to make the propaganda a bit more obvious. the Immortals as ninja orcs is completely an invention of the film, as is, obviously, the super immortal, or the grotesque executioner and the grenadiers. He makes the Persians, ironically, much more comic booky than they are in the comic. I'm pretty sure Xerxes tent is a lot stranger in the film too. The biggest addition, though, is the prologue. Snyder makes it unmistakeably clear that the Spartans are baby killing, children beating lunatics and the very first shot of the film, which isn't in the comic at all, is piles of dead baby skulls.
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Dec 26, 2020 03:51
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Adding child skulls to the first bookend doesn't absolve the work. You can't make a movie that glorifies Hitler by putting disclaimers saying "ps. this guy was bad" at the beginning and/or end. That's not enough, when the meat of the movie is pure adoration. Those are the fig leaves. e: fair, I forgot that Snyder made the Persians even more inhuman than Miller did. To be honest, that actually makes it worse.
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Dec 26, 2020 04:15
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Why are we even pretending like this discussion that has already reached 300 + Snyder = Hitler and Fascism Is Good is going to go anywhere but the same stupid circles that led to the creation of an entire thread to contain this very tired derail.
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Dec 26, 2020 04:27
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Carthag Tuek posted:Adding child skulls to the first bookend doesn't absolve the work. You can't make a movie that glorifies Hitler by putting disclaimers saying "ps. this guy was bad" at the beginning and/or end. Actually, that’s done all the time. But it’s not just a beginning and ending. One major plot point is that Leonidas has poor judgment because of constant apocalyptic nightmares that literally give him erectile dysfunction - brought on by the abuse he suffered as a child, and his disavowed belief in the sun god Apollo. Anyone can watch the film and see that Leonidas is bad. Now, you are arguing that Leonidas appears very good. Glorious, even. So: what are his glorious qualities?
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Dec 26, 2020 04:32
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AccountSupervisor posted:Why are we even pretending like this discussion that has already reached 300 + Snyder = Hitler and Fascism Is Good is going to go anywhere but the same stupid circles that led to the creation of an entire thread to contain this very tired derail.
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Dec 26, 2020 04:34
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:So: what are his glorious qualities? He’s a white man, age 18-40, with a smoking hot bod, therefore he is right, cool, good, and my friend. AmericanWesternLogic.txt
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Dec 26, 2020 04:40
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Carthag Tuek posted:Adding child skulls to the first bookend doesn't absolve the work. You can't make a movie that glorifies Hitler by putting disclaimers saying "ps. this guy was bad" at the beginning and/or end. That's not enough, when the meat of the movie is pure adoration. Those are the fig leaves. Adding a framing device where literally the first thing you discover about the main characters is that they are the product of a bunch of fascist death cultists does change things. Your argument hinged on it being a panel for panel recreation, which it isn't. How does making it more explicitly propaganda make it worse? How is that not the definition of examining the source material? Do you know what words mean? It kind of seems like you don't.
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Dec 26, 2020 04:40
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Denis, baby, blowing up an RV is not how you get Dune 2.
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Dec 26, 2020 04:45
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Ask ten people who watch 300, and nine probably tell you Spartans were loving badass and Persians were weird sissies or whatever. The framing device was minimal at best.
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Dec 26, 2020 04:47
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Vegetable posted:Ask ten people who watch 300, and nine probably tell you Spartans were loving badass and Persians were weird sissies or whatever. as we goons know, most viewers came away from 300 thinking "HMM WHAT AN INTRIGUING UNRELIABLE NARRATOR...THOSE SPARTANS WERE UNCOOL GROTESQUE MONSTERS!"
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Dec 26, 2020 04:51
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ruddiger posted:He’s a white man, age 18-40, with a smoking hot bod, therefore he is right, cool, good, and my friend. Lol, Gerard Butler could not get or stay cut so they CGI'd his abs. Snyder kept telling him to quit hitting the bars and he was like uh, nope.
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Dec 26, 2020 04:51
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Vegetable posted:Ask ten people who watch 300, and nine probably tell you Spartans were loving badass and Persians were weird sissies or whatever. Ask the same nine people about Starship Troopers and Robocop and they’d say the same thing. If you want to argue that most Americans are too dense to read subtext I’m not going to disagree with you. If you think they were right or that the majority dictates their opinion as truth, then I don’t know what to tell you, other than that’s hegemony for ya. 
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Dec 26, 2020 04:53
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hmmm I wonder if there's a long history of western scholars/culture glorifying spartan society and acts that might be relevant to this discussion.....that would be an interesting "framing device"....as a genius, I know 300 was probably just uhhh...deconstructing that stuff.
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Dec 26, 2020 04:54
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It might be helpful to list any other movies that ‘glorify fascist apologia’ or whatever while sneakily disguising it by making the protagonists explicitly ridiculous limp-dicked babykilling idiots and liars. How about Spaceballs?
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Dec 26, 2020 04:56
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Actually, that’s done all the time. His glory is in classical heroic qualities, all of which are portrayed as positives: - he is brave, even knowing he might not win - he leads his compatriots in the most effective way given the situation - he is handsome and strong, and a father to his men - it is not his fault that he loses the battle, it was treachery The American movie Fury, about the tank crew, is basically a modern 300. The Germans are the faceless horde, except for the few child conscripts that only serve to underline the inhumanity of the enemy. Brad Pitt is Leonidas, obviously. It is a good thing to kill them, even if it is a painful thing. The glory is in overcoming your humanity and killing the bastards, who are not human [whether true or false]. ps I would like some examples of that glorification being bookended by post-scriptums "all the time". Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Dec 26, 2020 |
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Dec 26, 2020 05:00
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 Spaceballs continues to be prescient. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3911950&perpage=40&noseen=1#post501852440
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Dec 26, 2020 05:06
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Vegetable posted:Ask ten people who watch 300, and nine probably tell you Spartans were loving badass and Persians were weird sissies or whatever. So this whole discussion comes back to Truffaut's "there's no such thing as an anti-war film," with the character of Snyder just occluding this point.
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Dec 26, 2020 05:08
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China Producer on Netflix's 'Three-Body Problem' Poisoned in Alleged Murder Plot
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Dec 26, 2020 06:17
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Carthag Tuek posted:His glory is in classical heroic qualities, all of which are portrayed as positives: 'We were the baddies all along' is an extremely common twist. It'd be remarkable if you hadn't encountered it before. The usual cliche is that the monstrous aliens are revealed to be innocent children or something - as in the Black Mirror episode Men Against Fire, where soldiers are brainwashed into perceiving ethnic minorities as zombies. But that ham-handedness shouldn't be necessary because, if you are actually honest, then fascism is always bad. That is where you're running into trouble: in your case you're trying to put "glorification" in terms of aesthetics in order to avoid being pinned to a concrete political stance. You don't agree with Leonidas' politics, but he's just overwhelmingly handsome - right? However, you can't avoid referring to Leonidas's protofascist leadership as "maximally effective" and "faultless". And no; Leonidas is not "faultless". He's actually specifically singled out as being the one who pointlessly antagonized Ephialtes, who was a strong and loyal dude. Do you not see the irony of Leonidas rejecting this guy because he might leave a gap in their defense, and then how that very decision created a massive hole in his plan? There were a lot of things that could have been done differently. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Dec 26, 2020 |
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Dec 26, 2020 06:45
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aware of dog posted:China Producer on Netflix's 'Three-Body Problem' Poisoned in Alleged Murder Plot update: he's now dead
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Dec 26, 2020 06:56
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Carthag Tuek posted:His glory is in classical heroic qualities, all of which are portrayed as positives: Uhm, the Americans rape a woman in Fury fyi Edit: I really hope the reply to this isn’t going to say or imply that a woman faced with a room full of armed combatants can make a consensual decision. ruddiger fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Dec 26, 2020 |
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Dec 26, 2020 07:02
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