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"drat, really wish I had my family's ancient Egyptian Kingdom back. It somehow existed without access to fresh water! It's not like the major hallmark of ancient kingdoms are their proximity to rivers."
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Dec 26, 2020 06:55
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Spoilers for bad thing cw sexual assault So we're all agreeing that Diana basically raped not steve, right? Guy was a real person who got body jacked for monkey paw reasons and existed after steve left. Like this is bugging me because all they needed to do, and what I expected them to do, was have the guy be a reincarnation of steve, but they had to go with lol fish out of water and now things are gross. Also, Diana initially wrote of Barbara just like everyone else, she just wasn't a dick about someone who needed help. She had zero interest in hanging out together until Barbara got the assignment to catalogue the recovered antiquities from the heist. Nothing in this movie approached the physicality of the amazing No Man's Land scene from the first one, and this slidey bullshit carries no weight or power. I didn't hate it, but I have no desire to watch it again. Also also: My buddy said she stole Goldar's look and now I can't unsee it.
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Dec 26, 2020 07:24
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Soonmot posted:Spoilers for bad thing cw sexual assault I think Diana picked up on Barbara getting shat on by people and was like gently caress it why not be nice. The dinner scene isn't exactly Di pumping her for intel. I know they did the Golden Armor because Alex Ross art. But I wish they had done some more with it aside from it being a weird visual upgrade/ yeah Diana flies now kinda. Though I liked the backstory for it
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Dec 26, 2020 07:31
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The body-swap thing is another utterly bizarre aspect of this story. I don't know that it would count as rape considering he is...well, he is Steve in every way that would matter, and not "that guy." Steve has no memory of that guy, that guy will have no memory of Steve, the guy effectively does not exist while Steve is in his place. But then they never address the rather pressing, alarming detail that, y'know, if Steve stays in his place, they've effectively murdered a man and erased him from existence.  It's never even touched on.Shirkelton posted:If you want an actual queer Christmas film there are options for that, if you want to pretend a movie is queer, you can do that without spending thirty bucks on this blank reel of celluloid. Besides, I didn't say it was a queer film, just that there are queer readings present. And hey, this HBO Max subscription allows me to catch up on His Dark Materials, which I'd been wanting to do.
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Dec 26, 2020 07:35
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Do I need to see the first eighty three Wonder Woman movies to understand this one?
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Dec 26, 2020 08:13
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Im watching Wonder Woman 1 for the first time and this movie might have the single worst action scenes I’ve ever seen in a big budget film. They are, without fail, plasticky, schizophrenic, green screened to poo poo CGI monstrosities with awful slowdown that just highlight how lovely and fake the CGI is. It’s kind of impressive how absolute garbage the action looks, at all times.
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Dec 26, 2020 08:20
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NieR Occomata posted:Im watching Wonder Woman 1 for the first time and this movie might have the single worst action scenes I’ve ever seen in a big budget film. They are, without fail, plasticky, schizophrenic, green screened to poo poo CGI monstrosities with awful slowdown that just highlight how lovely and fake the CGI is. It’s kind of impressive how absolute garbage the action looks, at all times. I’ve got some incredible news for you about Wonder Woman 2, then.
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Dec 26, 2020 08:33
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BrianWilly posted:Besides, I didn't say it was a queer film, just that there are queer readings present. That’s true of literally anything by this criteria.
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Dec 26, 2020 08:35
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Depends on the film and the reading. There are heavy queer overtones to Diana and Barbara’s interactions that I wouldn’t apply to Diana and Etta, for instance. What does it even matter? It sounds like you just really wanna argue about this film for some reason.
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Dec 26, 2020 08:45
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I mean I don’t give a poo poo nor do I care and have no direct knowledge but claiming something is queer, progressive, etc when it’s not is bad for two reasons:: 1) it’s inherently insulting to actually queer/progressive/etc media and 2) it opens up the argument that follows almost inevitably that you don’t hate the media because it’s bad but because you, yourself, are Actually Prejudiced. It’s basically goalpost moving in argumentative form.
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Dec 26, 2020 08:54
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Shirkelton posted:That’s true of literally anything by this criteria. Yes? I mean queer theory is a legitimate way of looking at any film.
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Dec 26, 2020 08:55
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I think the problem with the Maxwell Lord and the wishes plot is that it ends up neutering Cheetah's plot by proxy. Steve comes back, so any possible romance with Barbara gets halted because it would be weird to have that going on and not address the love interest of the previous movie. Cheetah goes bad out of a convenient excuse of her wish causing her to do it, rather than writing an actual fall from grace. I generally don't like "I wish the movie had a different plot" style criticism, but I can't help but feel like there could have been an interesting, small scale story about two women in conflict with one another. Add in some queer text/subtext to their relationship, and I would probably be a lot more forgiving of the movie being so long and slow. As is, it feels like the movie escalates to and end of the world scenario for excitement, and both the villains in the movie end up underdeveloped as a result.
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Dec 26, 2020 09:03
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Soonmot posted:Yes? I mean queer theory is a legitimate way of looking at any film. It is, but expanding that to ‘therefore every film is steeped in queer meaning, imagery’ is facile and I would go as far to argue, harmful.
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Dec 26, 2020 09:22
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Okay I finished Wonder Woman 1. I think this movie has severe X-Men First Class syndrome where it’s the first movie in a series of movies that isn’t a loving terrible shitfire so people have ended up drastically overstating it’s quality. It’s like, fine, but the action is loving terrible and the movie does some real revisionist history that’s kind of hosed up if you think about it for longer than a split second in how it portrays the Germans in WW1.
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Dec 26, 2020 09:28
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I may have been expecting too much, but I just don't feel like there was any meat to the Diana/Barbara relationship. There's hints of it at the beginning, and it did get my hopes up, but Barbara just ends up feeling left behind by the movie's plot until there's an action scene to be had.
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Dec 26, 2020 09:28
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NieR Occomata posted:I mean I don’t give a poo poo nor do I care and have no direct knowledge but claiming something is queer, progressive, etc when it’s not is bad for two reasons:: 1) it’s inherently insulting to actually queer/progressive/etc media and 2) it opens up the argument that follows almost inevitably that you don’t hate the media because it’s bad but because you, yourself, are Actually Prejudiced. It’s basically goalpost moving in argumentative form. A film can have queer overtones, undertones, or be analyzed through a queer perspective even if there's no explicit queerness shown. "Rebel Without a Cause" or "Nightmare on Elm Street 2" are two great, well-known examples of this. I might have given the wrong impression by putting it like, "Oh, Diana and Barbara are totally gay in this film, there's no denying it" making it sound as if there's actual representation here, but it's more that the overtones are there and can be -- frankly? -- really easily spotted. (All of which has even more weight when both of the characters, Diana and Barbara, are in fact queer women in the comics) Otherwise, that a film reads as queer is a pretty neutral observation that can mean any number of things. It's not necessarily an endorsement, just an analysis. On a personal I like these sorts of thought experiments because "How would this character be written differently if they were a different gender" is one of the most interesting things to consider in a story and often illustrates a lot of issues in the writing.
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Dec 26, 2020 09:40
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Nightmare on Elm Street 2 is an explicitly queer film.
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Dec 26, 2020 09:43
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They cribbed Amazing Spider-Man 2 for Barbara so hard they forgot to replace the parts where the hero’s action scenes are all swinging around.
Aphrodite fucked around with this message at 10:32 on Dec 26, 2020 |
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Dec 26, 2020 10:01
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BrianWilly posted:And hey, this HBO Max subscription allows me to catch up on His Dark Materials, which I'd been wanting to do. There isn't a TVIV thread about it and i need people to talk to about it. I read the books like 15 years ago and I though Lee dies in book 3 not 2 and don't remember Ms Coulter being able to control the spectors without any effort But yea holy poo poo I hated the way Barbara was introduced as is said, its just Max in ASM2, though unlike him she's actually recognized as being good at her job, and the awkardness is just there because its part of that kind of character. It would have been better if she had seen Diana earlier when she was Wonder Womaning and wished to be like her because of that. I guess that is pretty much what happened, though it being more specific, or maybe after Diana saves Barbara from the average white man she realized that Wonder Woman is Diana Also Kristen Wiig, underrated hotty. Max Lord being addicted to granting wishes was pretty interesting. Though it was getting pretty silly at the end there with everyone on earth just wishing, and him taking what from them? I understand rich and powerful, but what did he take from that waitress in China? Her amazing ability to play the piano? I'd say Wonder Woman is still the best of the current crop of DC movies, followed by Aquaman, Shazam and then WW84.
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Dec 26, 2020 10:53
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So I take it that Barbara and Diana aren't a couple in the movie like Gadot and Jenkins were said to be arguing for before release? Sounds like the only thing that could have made this apparently mediocre film vaguely interesting.
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Dec 26, 2020 14:22
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Cythereal posted:So I take it that Barbara and Diana aren't a couple in the movie like Gadot and Jenkins were said to be arguing for before release? There's a scene where they almost seem flirty and Diana rescues her from a creep but other than that they're just kind of friendly.
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Dec 26, 2020 14:43
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Overall I'd give WW84 a solid B-. I'm a huge sucker for scenes where a character from another time/place is learning about common things and it's blowing their mind and Steve was great for that. Just so excited about everything. I agree that Barbara's villain turn was kinda weak, but not terrible. The scene where they show the first "darkness" of her personality where she attacks the guy who had attacked her earlier fell very flat for me. I didn't have any sympathy for the guy so I'm supposed to be shocked? Action scenes were ok. I'm with the group that kinda digs the floaty movement for her. It gives her her own style.
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Dec 26, 2020 15:07
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Open Marriage Night posted:Do I need to see the first eighty three Wonder Woman movies to understand this one? You definitely need to see the first one, but you can skip over 2-83. They're no big deal, nobody ever talks about them.
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Dec 26, 2020 15:20
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I enjoyed it a lot.
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Dec 26, 2020 16:24
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I thought it was mostly okay. Also the one guy in here has no idea how doing readings of film on different ways work. With queer theory you can find those themes in almost every movie, yes, regardless of authorial intent. That's kind of the point. Nyx Fears on YouTube for instance did an amazing read of Hereditary through that lens, for instance, which is still one of my favorite interpretations of any movie.
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Dec 26, 2020 16:31
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You need a little more to go on than just 'got some kind of queer vibes' to form an actual coherent reading of a text.
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Dec 26, 2020 16:35
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Shirkelton posted:You need a little more to go on than just 'got some kind of queer vibes' to form an actual coherent reading of a text. Sure, but there's 100% a queer reading of this movie to be done even if the dudes single post ten minutes after watching the movie isn't it. And personally I wouldn't expect that to be.
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Dec 26, 2020 16:43
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I would be incredibly surprised if there ever an authentic, honest queer reading of this film.
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Dec 26, 2020 16:53
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For a number of reasons.
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Dec 26, 2020 16:53
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Shirkelton posted:I would be incredibly surprised if there ever an authentic, honest queer reading of this film. Okay. Like I'm not sure what else you expect anyone to say to you just putting your fingers in your ears and going la la la but you're being very unpleasant to interact with so I'm just going to stop.
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Dec 26, 2020 17:08
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Vince MechMahon posted:Okay. Like I'm not sure what else you expect anyone to say to you just putting your fingers in your ears and going la la la but you're being very unpleasant to interact with so I'm just going to stop. You came in here and accused me of not knowing what reading a text is because I don’t think that the hero not trusting the villain in a children’s fable is evidence of queer subtext, I’m not sure how earnest a discussion people really want to have.
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Dec 26, 2020 17:24
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As a lesbian that Joss Whedon would describe as "thirsty" to my widowed wife, I think if queer readings of film and the people that do them seriously in academia are going to be insulted because a gay dude on SA felt open to a movie having both a queer and a regressive reading, then I would probably laugh and think they need to take their stick out of their rear end. I'll laugh even harder at the guy pointlessly being a dick to everybody over it in the Something Awful BSS Movie Thread: RIP Chadwick Boseman. Not to mod voice in a section I don't mod, but chill out. It ain't a big deal.
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Dec 26, 2020 17:50
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Roth posted:As a lesbian that Joss Whedon would describe as "thirsty" to my widowed wife, I think if queer readings of film and the people that do them seriously in academia are going to be insulted because a gay dude on SA felt open to a movie having both a queer and a regressive reading, then I would probably laugh and think they need to take their stick out of their rear end. My condolences to your wife. Also yeah, everybody chill. Have some eggnog and think about something else for awhile.
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Dec 26, 2020 17:52
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It's time to lighten things up. To do so, I will now explain why Zack Snyder...
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Dec 26, 2020 18:04
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Yeah Diana literally praises Barbara for being so OUT so could there be some queer reading there? Sure. I'm sure that's why Barb gets a likely-studio-mandated an awkward make-out scene with Max and is just so enraptured with him Also her interaction with Wino Man once she's empowered obviously shows the loss of humanity/humility/empathy, but I think it also sets her up in comparison with Diana, who doesn't needlessly injure bad guys and has a general handle on the responsibility/burden her abilities carry Regarding the Steve problem I'm thinking it's part of the Cost of Diana's wish. one, if he was just some kind of Homunculus then it'd be easier for her to reject him an obvious insubstantial entity. two, the cost of keeping him around is essentially causing a living person to be evicted from their body. it goes back to her whole conflict being 'don't I deserve *one* bit of happiness' and the reality being that her desire comes at the expense of a man's life.
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Dec 26, 2020 18:19
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Theatres are closed and HBOMax isn't available in my country, so I can't watch WW84 at all. 
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Dec 26, 2020 19:57
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For the last few years, any movie that passes the Bechdel test is called queer here. It's created the implication that women can't be friends without it being gay and that's kind of hosed up. Anyway, Diana literally says in dialogue to Barbara exactly why her villain turn happened. That's the consequence of her wish. Everyone loses something and Barbara's was her "soul". JordanKai posted:Theatres are closed and HBOMax isn't available in my country, so I can't watch WW84 at all. Not sure where you live, but in the UK it goes up for rentals on the 13th. In Canada it's already available for rentals. The US, UK and Canada seem to be the only places with digital releases (with only the US being 'free'.)
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Dec 26, 2020 20:03
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Aphrodite posted:For the last few years, any movie that passes the Bechdel test is called queer here. It's created the implication that women can't be friends without it being gay and that's kind of hosed up. That's "okay", neither can men or man/woman pairs. If two people show the slightest bit of friendliness to each other they fuckin'.
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Dec 26, 2020 20:09
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JordanKai posted:Theatres are closed and HBOMax isn't available in my country, so I can't watch WW84 at all. Sounds like you need to use my promo code on Nord VPN to get fifty percent off of twelve years. Raid: Shadow legends.
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Dec 26, 2020 20:37
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Vince MechMahon posted:Sounds like you need to use my promo code on Nord VPN to get fifty percent off of twelve years. Raid: Shadow legends. Lmao
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Dec 26, 2020 20:40
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