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ImpAtom posted:I don't think anyone has clarified yet if it is optional or not is why people are concerned. If it's just a toggle then yeah it's no big deal, if it's a full-on replacement with no option then it kinda sucks for people who wanted the original. [Patch notes: -Function addition ・ Skill shuffle function and skill inheritance function have been added when displaying the combined result at the facility "Evil Church".]
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Dec 27, 2020 21:03
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It seems to me like the best way to handle random/manual skill inheritance would be to make manual inheritance require a resource to use. Maybe there could be uncommon items that allow you to manually pick one skill to inherit, but the rest have to be random. And in the endgame you could find rare items that allow you to do fully manual inheritance. Of course then you'd have to balance things so that the player couldn't just get 99 of those items easily, but it seems like that would be a good middle ground to make the player take time and think, "how much do I really care about the specific skills that are being passed on?" whenever they do a fusion.
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Dec 27, 2020 21:06
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TheOneAndOnlyT posted:It seems to me like the best way to handle random/manual skill inheritance would be to make manual inheritance require a resource to use. Maybe there could be uncommon items that allow you to manually pick one skill to inherit, but the rest have to be random. And in the endgame you could find rare items that allow you to do fully manual inheritance. It would have to be static drops from chests/bosses or else you would get players complaining that it takes too long for them to drop in battle
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Dec 27, 2020 21:18
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Never understood the point of creating the absolute perfect demon outside of super boss scenarios. Yeah it's nice to have some good skills but it just makes the games way easier but not in an interesting way.
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Dec 27, 2020 21:21
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ImpAtom posted:I don't think anyone has clarified yet if it is optional or not is why people are concerned. If it's just a toggle then yeah it's no big deal, if it's a full-on replacement with no option then it kinda sucks for people who wanted the original. its literally in the original quote tweet, you can see it randomly inheriting by default and then get toggled to manual Ibram Gaunt posted:Never understood the point of creating the absolute perfect demon outside of super boss scenarios. Yeah it's nice to have some good skills but it just makes the games way easier but not in an interesting way. its fun. also manual might make hard mode less miserable.
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Dec 27, 2020 21:25
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I don't think Atlus needs new ideas for skill systems, they already seem to have figured out how to do things in interesting ways without being annoying and tedious. Radiou, Devil Survivor, Strange Journey, Apocalypse, pretty much everything since Nocturne has been a vast improvement.Ibram Gaunt posted:Never understood the point of creating the absolute perfect demon outside of super boss scenarios. Yeah it's nice to have some good skills but it just makes the games way easier but not in an interesting way. It's not necessarily about having a perfect skill set, but even just getting the two or three skills you want is already more frustration than there ought to be.
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Dec 27, 2020 21:28
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Alacron posted:I don't think Atlus needs new ideas for skill systems, they already seem to have figured out how to do things in interesting ways without being annoying and tedious. Radiou, Devil Survivor, Strange Journey, Apocalypse, pretty much everything since Nocturne has been a vast improvement. Exactly. SJR and Apoc had perfect systems. They just need to keep doing what they've been doing for the last 7 years. Honestly, Nocturne has a pretty over-inflated reputation and is not a top tier SMT game by my standards. They have done everything better in the subsequent years. Nocturne's random skill inheritance has the extra flaw of the plethora of worthless Demon Negotiation skills. The game will absolutely give you Nag and Kidnap instead of actually useful abilities. On my last Nocturne run I never even got Kidnap to trigger. I fused it onto one of my demons and then it did precisely nothing. And even for the ones that come in handy, combat skills are obviously always more valuable. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Dec 27, 2020 |
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Dec 27, 2020 21:35
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Working around flaws and suboptimal stuff and finding ways to make it work is way more interesting to me personally than just creating godlike Ur demons and recycling all their perfect skills onto every subsequent one you make from start to finish. None of these games are hard enough to require that level of minmaxing unless you're doing very specific things.
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Dec 27, 2020 21:43
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Working around flaws and suboptimal stuff and finding ways to make it work is way more interesting to me personally than just creating godlike Ur demons and recycling all their perfect skills onto every subsequent one you make from start to finish. None of these games are hard enough to require that level of minmaxing unless you're doing very specific things. There is a way to do this that doesn't involve RNG.
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Dec 27, 2020 21:44
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King of Solomon posted:There is a way to do this that doesn't involve RNG. People having OCD and forcing themselves to enter and exit the fusion screen for 2 hours isn't the games fault.
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Dec 27, 2020 21:46
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Ibram Gaunt posted:People having OCD and forcing themselves to enter and exit the fusion screen for 2 hours isn't the games fault. Again, not everyone is reshuffling the demon fusion because they want something perfect. They just want something that has the two or three skills they want to carry over.
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Dec 27, 2020 21:47
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King of Solomon posted:Again, not everyone is reshuffling the demon fusion because they want something perfect. They just want something that has the two or three skills they want to carry over. Yeah that's fair.
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Dec 27, 2020 22:10
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Cleretic posted:You could've just... not done that... Nobody loving "not does that". They sit and reroll too. I'm not I'm losing out on viable endgame demons because inheritance or noise clutters up my fusions. Tactless Ogre fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Dec 27, 2020 |
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Dec 27, 2020 22:36
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Tactless Ogre posted:Nobody loving "not does that". They sit and reroll too. I'm not I'm losing out on viable endgame demons because inheritance or noise clutters up my fusions. I've done that because sitting there rerolling for an hour isn't fun. I realized during my second or third playthrough that the time I spend sitting there rerolling to make sure every demon gets the right skill is largely wasted and if you looked at your own playthroughs you'd probably find the same thing. You're swapping demons so regularly and skills are generally easy to replenish or replace. There is a small handful of skills that are absurdly good but a good chunk of those can't even go to other demons which is why you keep Daisoujou around for 50 levels. As far as the second part goes: That would never happen. Period. You don't need super hyper mega ultra optimized demons to be viable in endgame. Anything remotely in the level range can be viable and the only possible "iffy" part is against Lucifer and even that isn't significant enough to matter. SMT3 (and indeed no SMT game) requires you to have every single perfect skill for a demon to be viabe, let alone good. It's fine to say you want to make OP demons without having to struggle with rerolls but don't pretend like a viable demon is going to be non-viable because it didn't get a perfect skill transfer. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Dec 27, 2020 |
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Dec 27, 2020 23:09
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i just want to pass on sukukaja and estoma
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Dec 27, 2020 23:16
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This all seems like a really familiar discussion and I realized it's because it happens twice a week in the Pokémon threads when breeding for the correct IVs/natures comes up.
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Dec 27, 2020 23:27
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It also comes up every week in this very thread
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Dec 27, 2020 23:28
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It's goofier here since random inheritance hasn't been a mechanic for a long while and probably won't be again.
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Dec 27, 2020 23:29
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Motto posted:It's goofier here since random inheritance hasn't been a mechanic for a long while and probably won't be again. I mean it just came back for a couple months in nocturne hd before it got patched. Just my two cents but I never try creating refilling to get super demons in nocturne. I'd rather spend my time playing, and the game gives you plenty of tools in the toolbox between attack items, player skills, newly acquired demons, and the compendium. That creating a super demons tends to just exchange your time to make an easier boring game that you end up utilizing less of the tools the game gives you.
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Dec 27, 2020 23:36
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YggiDee posted:This all seems like a really familiar discussion and I realized it's because it happens twice a week in the Pokémon threads when breeding for the correct IVs/natures comes up. The difference with Pokemon is that Pokemon is built around competitive play where that level of optimization has a significant outcome on the way battles play out. You don't need to touch it to finish the story but you do if you want to fight other people without risking a handicap. With Pokemon so heavily rewarding those minor differences it becomes a central part of the game if you intend at all to participate in its competitive gameplay. SMT is pretty much always geared towards single player gameplay. SMT has moved away from random rerolling into more limited selections. Devil Survivor tried just giving you a smaller skill list, Apocalypse weighted skills by demon, that sort of thing. They haven't quite hit the right mark yet but even if they are removing rerolling they are still attempting to find ways to limit skill transfer in some other way.
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Dec 27, 2020 23:48
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I'm excited for the English VA in the HD Nocturne. I've been watching clips of the 999 port and I really appreciated the voice direction, as you can tell the voice actors were allowed to make actual acting choices (that's Atlus, right?). Plus, SMT4 and SMT4:A had some good readings. I enjoyed Adramelech and Minotaur quite a bit. I wonder how they'll choose to portray the hella dramatic monologues of the humans in Nocturne.
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Dec 27, 2020 23:49
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999 was Though it's possible they contract out to the same voice recording studio. Admiral H. Curtiss fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Dec 28, 2020 |
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Dec 27, 2020 23:57
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Working around flaws and suboptimal stuff and finding ways to make it work is way more interesting to me personally than just creating godlike Ur demons and recycling all their perfect skills onto every subsequent one you make from start to finish. None of these games are hard enough to require that level of minmaxing unless you're doing very specific things. yeah but different people find different stuff fun. part of what i find fun in like, the persona games vs mainline smt, is creating game breakingly powerful demons just bcos. its cool to fuse through like 10 gens of demons to have some broken immortal monster sometimes, doesnt have to be bcos of a specific goal or anything.
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Dec 28, 2020 00:06
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Ohh, I always mix up Aksys and Atlus and Arcsys. There's too many publishers releasing hit indie games in niche genres. Well, hopefully they get a voice director with decent ability. I find the OG no vocals hard to top, but I hope they make a valiant effort at the very least.
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Dec 28, 2020 00:07
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The Demifiend's skill acquisition hasn't been changed, has it? I always found that more annoying than the demons, because you could brute force what you really wanted out of that, but the Demifiend's limits meant you couldn't ever really experiment with stuff.
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Dec 28, 2020 05:22
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I was feeling pretty confident about maxing out all the confidants in this fresh new game run of P5R. Then the game snatched two weeks out from under me for plot stuff and I am no longer confident Fake edit: pun not intended
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Dec 28, 2020 08:23
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Scrap Dragon posted:I was feeling pretty confident about maxing out all the confidants in this fresh new game run of P5R. Then the game snatched two weeks out from under me for plot stuff and I am no longer confident You have a surprising amount of time. If nothing else, prioritize the new links and you'll get more than enough time repaid.
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Dec 28, 2020 08:31
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Sakurazuka posted:It also comes up every week in this very thread We probably need a new megathread. 9 years is enough.
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Dec 28, 2020 16:24
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a new incarnation of the thread.
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Dec 28, 2020 18:15
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Shin Megathread Tensei
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Dec 28, 2020 19:06
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But will the new thread have random or manual poster transference?
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Dec 28, 2020 19:07
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Make sure the moons in the right phase or there's a chance you'll get a slime instead
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Dec 28, 2020 19:11
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So are we just going to do a base fusion or should we try something more complicated?
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Dec 28, 2020 19:19
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We should sacrifice one of the posters to give the thread a level boost. But don't sacrifice the OP, they'll get a stat boost and learn megidolaon if we keep them to the end of the game.
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Dec 28, 2020 20:30
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YggiDee posted:Shin Megathread Tensei Yes
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Dec 28, 2020 22:30
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Going to hide this opinion in the soon-to-be old thread instead of the new one: I'm glad they added manual skill inheritance to Nocturne HD and I hope they add save anywhere or save states (not suspend save or whatever) too.
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Dec 28, 2020 23:00
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I'm not actually clear on why we need a new Megathread, but should it wait until English Nocturne or SMT V comes out?
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Dec 28, 2020 23:09
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YggiDee posted:I'm not actually clear on why we need a new Megathread, but should it wait until English Nocturne or SMT V comes out? This would probably be better so newcomers don’t feel unwelcome, that’s the difficulty curves job
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Dec 28, 2020 23:19
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Ugh, fine. I'll just save the draft of the OP till then.
Wark Say fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Dec 28, 2020 |
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Dec 28, 2020 23:42
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This thread isnt even 10000 pages, why would you need to restart it
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Dec 29, 2020 20:48
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