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seaborgium posted:Yeah, but while she might know who Thom Merrilin is, had she really put together that he's some random gleeman in the middle of bumfuck Andor so remote it hadn't seen a tax collector or anything from the Andorian goverment in living memory? I mean, having a description of a person is not the same as having met them and knowing what they look like. I always got the sense that she was just pulling the normal, "Cower, brief mortals" bullshit the Aes Sedai pull on anyone who they get involved with. Thom Merrilin might have been slumming it, but he wasn't exactly going incognito. He didn't change his name, he didn't change his appearance, he still claims to have been a court bard. Moiraine knew who he was.
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Dec 28, 2020 20:10
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Senator I have never met Mr. Merrilin. Que magic mirror showing them boning in a broom closet.
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Dec 28, 2020 20:15
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Another thing is, Moiraine went in knowing that there were three ta'veren in this area. So to the extent that she twigs anything unusual about Thom, she should already be really primed for the explanation to be as random and unlikely as possible. (Another other thing is, who else in Randland has that mustache? That's probably enough to identify him regardless of anything else.)
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Dec 29, 2020 02:40
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Thom Merrilin might have been slumming it, but he wasn't exactly going incognito. He didn't change his name, he didn't change his appearance, he still claims to have been a court bard. She might know of some guy named Thom who was a court bard that hung out with royalty. But if she's never met him it's really kinda hard to recognize someone based off just a name.
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Dec 29, 2020 02:58
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Thom stopped being a court bard and advisor to the Queen that is probably the world's most important and powerful monarch because he decided he had to go pick a fight with the White Tower itself. I doubt that many Aes Sedai wouldn't know who he was.
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Dec 29, 2020 03:16
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i feel like at a bare minimum she probably had a hunch but didn't want to bring it up at the time
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Dec 29, 2020 03:22
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the only logical explanation is that siuan bet moiraine that she couldn't bang thom loving merrilin
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Dec 29, 2020 03:34
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In Book 1 Moiraine knows that Thom is more than your average gleeman but that doesn't get expanded on until Book 2/3/4 where it obviously becomes an intrigue sort of thing where they realize they've both been crossing paths in the halls of power for longer than the Two Rivers bunch have been alive. It's hard to say exactly how much RJ insinuates that they know about each other, but if nothing else their interactions in EotW lay the foundation for the later stuff.
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Dec 29, 2020 04:09
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:And another thing I love about this series, is that both theories are equally valid. Jordan was so good at implying and hinting. One fun thing in that meeting aside from the background infodump on both of them is that Moiraine heals Thom for what I think is the first time (she de-fatigues him in TEOTW but I don't think she heals him). While it's a nice gesture that hints at her continued good feelings for him, it's also a way to establish that healing connection between them. RJ doesn't really bring it up after TEOTW but it always stuck out to me that this was yet another instance of Moiraine being the ultimate Aes Sedai and always having an angle.
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Dec 29, 2020 05:06
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Honestly, though. That scene. Moiraine knows the Dragon Reborn has to be here, and she's pretty certain she's gotten the jump on the rest of existence... and then she finds Thom loving Merrilin. Why is he here!? Thom is just out gleemaning in one of the hickest parts of the world... and an Aes Sedai pops up. A Blue, who's also a Cairhienin noble. Why is she here!? So she's like "you better not be here to gently caress with me" and he's like "light no poo poo poo poo poo poo" and the rest is history. I think it would've been super cool to get an EotW from the PoVs of the characters who Knew Things.
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Dec 29, 2020 06:24
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Doesn’t Thom go out there every year? I thought the boys know him already but I could be misremembering.
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Dec 29, 2020 07:00
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Invalid Validation posted:Doesn’t Thom go out there every year? I thought the boys know him already but I could be misremembering. The boys knew Padan Fain who does get out there every year, but a gleeman is a rare thing and they've never seen Thom before.
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Dec 29, 2020 07:04
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Invalid Validation posted:Doesn’t Thom go out there every year? I thought the boys know him already but I could be misremembering. No, Fain went out there every year but they specifically pooled the money together that Bel Tine for a Gleeman and fireworks, which were incredibly rare for the Two Rivers, because of the bad winter. Which then gets shown up by uh all of the next three winters.
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Dec 29, 2020 07:04
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Ah yes the ole Padan Fain. The walking fart cloud.
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Dec 29, 2020 07:08
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aparmenideanmonad posted:Yep! I always assumed Moiraine knew who he was very early on. But it is also plausible she had the barest of hints and then did the proper research during her time out of play in TGH - specifically to find out which Red sisters hosed with Owyn. She could have also had agents reporting to her about Thom's background between TGH and TDR when they're chilling in the Mountains of Mist. There's not much time at the beginning of TSR for her to do this, and theres only a chapter and a half between her going through the redstone doorway to Finnland, finding out she and Thom are connected, and then her casually bumping into him in his room in Tear. It's just funny to me how her angle is 'I'm trying to save the loving world here, goddamnit.' She could have been an absolute monster if she was interested in power.
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Dec 29, 2020 07:11
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:It's just funny to me how her angle is 'I'm trying to save the loving world here, goddamnit.' She could have been an absolute monster if she was interested in power. Just think about her allied with Thom in meddling with international politics as a hobby, afterwards. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Dec 29, 2020 |
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Dec 29, 2020 14:00
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So with all the talk about things being changed in the WoT Amazon adaptation, it occurred to me that we could talk about things we want them to change. I'll start: You gotta do more with Slayer. Dude's related to TWO main cast members and never meets either of them. Why bother with the complicated backstory if he's never going to interact with the people his backstory ties him to? They really oughta either do more with him, or cut the backstory elements if they aren't going to mean anything.
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Dec 30, 2020 05:19
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jng2058 posted:So with all the talk about things being changed in the WoT Amazon adaptation, it occurred to me that we could talk about things we want them to change. I'll start: Yeah and give him some more actual interaction with Perrin. I don't think they even speak to each other at all over the course of the series do them? His whole deal is so insanely intricate and he mostly just serves as a way to give Perrin someone to personally fight while Rand and Matt get to do the important stuff.
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Dec 30, 2020 05:23
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He meets Perrin in Edmonds Field. Isn’t he Luc?
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Dec 30, 2020 05:23
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Invalid Validation posted:He meets Perrin in Edmonds Field. Isn’t he Luc? each scene where Lord Luc shows up and Perrin gets really mad that everyone else thinks he's cool is very fun, imo
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Dec 30, 2020 05:25
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Get rid of the tower subplot with the darkfriend hunters, I don't think that ever really goes anywhere over the course of multiple books?
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Dec 30, 2020 05:25
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jng2058 posted:So with all the talk about things being changed in the WoT Amazon adaptation, it occurred to me that we could talk about things we want them to change. I'll start: Slayer does feel underused but if they're condensing roles then I could see him getting being more prominent just because an evil dreamwalking psychotic assassin is probably too useful of a character to just sideline. I like the fact that he never meets Lan or Rand honestly, it serves to reinforce how detached he is (in both personalities) from anything beyond being a tool of the Shadow. Honestly if they're gonna change anything then beef up my dude Hurin's arc 
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Dec 30, 2020 05:31
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:Get rid of the tower subplot with the darkfriend hunters, I don't think that ever really goes anywhere over the course of multiple books? to be honest i think there's a couple subplots that kind of end up this way. ultimately i think they're good and add flavor to the series, but one does have to wonder as to what all they're going to keep intact for the purposes of a show given that time is at a premium.
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Dec 30, 2020 05:34
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They should cast the same actor for Mazrim Taim and Demandred and just never comment on it.
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Dec 30, 2020 05:48
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mossyfisk posted:They should cast the same actor for Mazrim Taim and Demandred and just never comment on it. Those twins from Breaking Bad.
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Dec 30, 2020 05:55
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mossyfisk posted:They should cast the same actor for Mazrim Taim and Demandred and just never comment on it. Lmao this holy poo poo Let people assume what they will up until the Shadow Council at the end
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Dec 30, 2020 05:55
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mossyfisk posted:They should cast the same actor for Mazrim Taim and Demandred and just never comment on it. Perfection
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Dec 30, 2020 05:55
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Zore posted:Yeah and give him some more actual interaction with Perrin. I don't think they even speak to each other at all over the course of the series do them? Thinking about that leads me to another one: I'd like Perrin to get more to do with the rest of the main cast. From Shadow Rising on, Perrin goes off with Faile and pretty much disappears into his own plotlines for virtually the rest of the series. Oh he gets a brief comeback to help Rand at Dumai's Wells in Lord of Chaos but then he's off to Ghealdan with his own crew (Faile, Berelain, Gaul, etc) for the rest of the series. Even when everyone gets back together for the Last Battle, Perrin still ends up off on his own with Gaul hunting Slayer rather than interacting with anyone else! I'd see about giving him more to do than spend whole books (seasons of TV!) sloooowly tracking down the Shaido to rescue Faile. ONE YEAR LATER posted:Get rid of the tower subplot with the darkfriend hunters, I don't think that ever really goes anywhere over the course of multiple books? Johnny Joestar posted:to be honest i think there's a couple subplots that kind of end up this way. ultimately i think they're good and add flavor to the series, but one does have to wonder as to what all they're going to keep intact for the purposes of a show given that time is at a premium. I really liked the Black Ajah Hunters...at first. I really enjoyed the idea that Elaida's paranoia and scheming could actually, if only accidentally, do some good. But the fact that they really don't accomplish anything and end up getting totally eclipsed by Egwene and especially Verin does make the subplot ultimately expendable. Either punch them up to accomplish more on their own, or cut 'em. mossyfisk posted:They should cast the same actor for Mazrim Taim and Demandred and just never comment on it. Sold! 
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Dec 30, 2020 06:08
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jng2058 posted:I really liked the Black Ajah Hunters...at first. I really enjoyed the idea that Elaida's paranoia and scheming could actually, if only accidentally, do some good. But the fact that they really don't accomplish anything and end up getting totally eclipsed by Egwene and especially Verin does make the subplot ultimately expendable. Either punch them up to accomplish more on their own, or cut 'em. It was a good backdoor way of introducing you to a group of women in the White Tower who could be trusted, and from memory, who form the delegation inviting Egwene to serve as Amyrlin.
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Dec 30, 2020 06:11
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:Get rid of the tower subplot with the darkfriend hunters, I don't think that ever really goes anywhere over the course of multiple books? jng2058 posted:I really liked the Black Ajah Hunters...at first. I really enjoyed the idea that Elaida's paranoia and scheming could actually, if only accidentally, do some good. But the fact that they really don't accomplish anything and end up getting totally eclipsed by Egwene and especially Verin does make the subplot ultimately expendable. Either punch them up to accomplish more on their own, or cut 'em. I think they're there, not really as a group that's supposed to further an actual important plotline, but just to have an established group of characters in the Tower to see what's going on well in advance of the rebels arriving, and to provide texture to the tower itself. Then when you need a fully realized supporting cast for when Egwene moves in, you already have these folks you've developed and which have personalities and what not. (I also really like that plotline at first and wish they'd had more of their own successes/had more to do before just being obsoleted entirely by Verin.) Most of the stuff I'd want to hardcore slash is Perrin's wilderness wandering and everything Shaido related. There's a few good nuggets there, him working with the Seanchan made for cool scenes, and then his really and finally coming in to his own at the very end of the return to Four Kings after he foils Graendal's trap was an awesome overall sequence, but man. His whole post book 6 arc is definitely the weakest by far and feels like it has a huge amount of room for improvement and better integration in to the rest of the storyline. Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Dec 30, 2020 |
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Dec 30, 2020 06:13
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Everything about Perrin from at least like book 5 to whenever he forges that cool hammer is gonna need a rework
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Dec 30, 2020 06:17
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Narratively, the sisters hipunting the Black in the tower serve a reasonable purpose - it gives you a grouo that is primed to believe Verin and Egwene. Since everyone they have caught is on the list, they trust that it is right.
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Dec 30, 2020 07:02
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Gnoman posted:Narratively, the sisters hipunting the Black in the tower serve a reasonable purpose - it gives you a grouo that is primed to believe Verin and Egwene. Since everyone they have caught is on the list, they trust that it is right. In that vein, I think you start it earlier. Or at least introduce the characters earlier. Have Pevara or Seane come to Fal Dara in TGH, have a couple of them pop up in TDR (ie, one interacts with Mat, one with one of the girls, and so on). Then when they get their act together and do a thing as a group it's vaguely-established characters instead of a bunch of complete randos.
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Dec 30, 2020 12:59
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Replace Elayne with Narg in all her roles. All the actors play it straight.
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Dec 30, 2020 14:05
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Gnoman posted:Sanderson being one of the go/no go people is a little concerning. lmao
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Dec 30, 2020 22:59
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Soysaucebeast posted:Oh, I hadn't seen that Q&A. The fact that they're making Thom "younger and gritter" is a little disquieting, but I've heard good things from basically everyone about Rafe (and just found out he was on Survivor when I googled him) so I'll withhold judgement. Here's the specific answer if anyone else was curious. it's going to be like the new pratchett show BigHead posted:Also I can definitely see cutting out characters. I'm doing a reread, on book nine, and there are approximately seven hundred minor characters that constantly pop up and disappear for a book or two. The illuminator, the illian boat captain, Domon, Valda/Carridan, Luca, Elyas, Uno, Rhurarc, most of the Aiel, all the endless nobles, all disappear and then reappear then disappear again. I'd imagine they can't hire actors for a two minute appearance then a three year break before another one minute on screen. they could also cut most of the forsakens rndmnmbr posted:Yeah, yeah, I've had this discussion before. And everyone generally lands opposite of me on this, that the fine details aren't as important as general tone and plot and quality of production, so I can admit I am that guy and should just deal. good omens was a horrible adaptation there have been no good adaptations of pratchett's works, because the stuff that works in his books doesn't work on screen
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Dec 30, 2020 23:31
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They're almost certainly collapse the two thief seekers into the same character. This is practical, but I'll miss how much they hated each other.
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Dec 31, 2020 07:30
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Atlas Hugged posted:They're almost certainly collapse the two thief seekers into the same character. This is practical, but I'll miss how much they hated each other.
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Dec 31, 2020 07:53
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Ani posted:Do you mean Hurin and Juilin? Do they ever even meet each other? I don't know that they meet specifically, but they spit all over each other's respective professions. One was a thief-taker and the other a thief-catcher and they are very different.
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Dec 31, 2020 11:36
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Atlas Hugged posted:I don't know that they meet specifically, but they spit all over each other's respective professions. One was a thief-taker and the other a thief-catcher and they are very different.
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Dec 31, 2020 13:51
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