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Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:God I miss the days when Marlboro sponsored everything. Bring back tobacco. #forzaPMI Is Mission Winnow waiting until Ferrari are competitive again before returning? Nobody wants to smoke loser cigarettes, they want the delicious taste of victory.
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Dec 29, 2020 09:41
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rjr brought back lucky strikes and if anything needs to be on a livery it's that
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Dec 29, 2020 10:05
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Can't we have nothing but nonexistent energy drinks
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Dec 29, 2020 10:45
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Azza Bamboo posted:Can't we have nothing but nonexistent energy drinks Haas' livery next year is going to be those Wish adverts you get on facebook.
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Dec 29, 2020 11:18
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The rear wings on some of these cars are huge, and the Spirit and the Toleman have weird double rear wing setups, one in front of the other. It's hideous. The 83 Theodore, meanwhile, looks to presage the cars from the late 80s and early 90s. Canada '83 had the best coverage package so far, with real fonts, shot transitions, and even replays for things that hadn't been caught live. Then Britain features this...thing 
bgreman fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Dec 29, 2020 |
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Dec 29, 2020 11:24
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Azza Bamboo posted:With all of the loss of life, limb and spectators also striken I found myself curious about the safety improvements that would be made between 82 and 83. Ground effect designs were a big contributor to both the Ferrari accidents though, as well as several others with less severe consequences. The ground effect cars had a tendency to 'fly' if the nose raised and broke the seal with the ground, contributing to far more violent impacts and potential inversions. There were also the secondary considerations of high cornering speeds making in-corner collisions more dangerous, and the stresses on the driver of the higher G forces leading to fatigue. More could certainly have been done to make the cars safer, but it would be wrong to consider ground effect designs as being detached from the safety of the sport.
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Dec 29, 2020 11:42
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So basically the ground effect cars were the 1999 Le Mans Mercedes?
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Dec 29, 2020 12:05
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track day bro! posted:I always wondered, is team ATS pretty much the german wheel manufacturer called ATS? Yep, same company. And if you see "Abba" on the car, yes, that Abba. It was done again twice later, Rial and Fondmetal were both wheel manufacturers with lovely F1 teams.
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Dec 29, 2020 12:08
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In other safety  from the 83 season, Tambay wins for Ferrari at Imola, can't finish his victory lap, parks up, and gets absolutely mobbed by the tifosi. The number of fans on the track when these races finish up is utterly insane.
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Dec 29, 2020 12:10
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Dudley posted:Yep, same company. And if you see "Abba" on the car, yes, that Abba. I noticed Slim Borgrudd in the 81 and 82 seasons. He's actually a fair driver.
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Dec 29, 2020 12:21
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bgreman posted:In other safety 10+ more years left of that, I think they finally got a handle on it in the back half of the 90s.
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Dec 29, 2020 12:24
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bgreman posted:Then Britain features this...thing It's the starting grid. Someone in the British production has a sense of fun.
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Dec 29, 2020 12:32
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I don't know what's worse. The fact there are "race queens" or the fact they don't want to kiss Lauda's cheek when they kiss everyone else's.
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Dec 29, 2020 13:09
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a pipe smoking dog posted:Haas' livery next year is going to be those Wish adverts you get on facebook. My purchase history on wish.com has been orders of magnitude more reliable than my orders of Rich Energy 
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Dec 29, 2020 13:17
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Patrese just changed the game at Germany 83 with a 9.75s pit stop. First sub-10s planned stop. Brabham pit crew is the Red Bull of its time. They told an anecdote about how Raul Boesel crashed during practice and one of the catch fence posts nicked an artery in his neck. He still raced on Sunday.
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Dec 29, 2020 13:21
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Azza Bamboo posted:I don't know what's worse. The fact there are "race queens" or the fact they don't want to kiss Lauda's cheek when they kiss everyone else's. They sound very fraudulent OP, you wouldn't get such behaviour from good honest grid girls. #BringBackGridGirls
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Dec 29, 2020 14:48
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a pipe smoking dog posted:Haas' livery next year is going to be those Wish adverts you get on facebook. it's gonna be those rear end pajamas
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Dec 29, 2020 14:55
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Dec 29, 2020 15:20
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I am shocked that a media outlet that employs Mark Hughes could make such misguided decisions.
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Dec 29, 2020 15:24
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Wonder how much these tickets cost at the San Marino GP. 
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Dec 29, 2020 15:51
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Azza Bamboo posted:
I would call this a competitive advantage, coupled to the fact that Renault blew it (quite literally) and Piquet was generally superior to the Williams pairing. I mean, it’s kinda not Brabham’s fault that their car was much better designed than the others, at least initially. James Hunt having a meltdown during the Argentine GP because he couldn’t deal with the fact that Rebaque was simply faster than the cars in front of him was embarrassing.
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Dec 29, 2020 15:56
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the corona quid posted:Frond do you have that F1 engine website still? There’s some good reads on that and it’s really detailed on the different design philosophy of the different engine manufacturers. There’s a lot of good coverage of the turbo era on that site. I’ll see if I can find it again.
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Dec 29, 2020 15:58
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bgreman posted:Austria '82 features the first pre-planned pit stop of the era, both Brabhams started on a half load of fuel and stopped to change tires and get fuel halfway through. They'd been trying to do this for the last several races but kept retiring before getting the opportunity. Piquet's stop was around 31 seconds because the crew weren't ready, but Patrese finished his stop in about 13s. Yes, it’s why the “Swiss GP” was held at Dijon-Prenois. Another good, fast, old circuit.
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Dec 29, 2020 16:00
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the corona quid posted:Ground effects got banned at the last minute which means a lot of people were just scrambling to put anything together. The original TG183 was a GE car(it appeared at the end of 1982) and then it was hastily modified at the last minute. Byrne figured out basically by chance that you could put a wing...in front of another wing.
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Dec 29, 2020 16:02
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track day bro! posted:I always wondered, is team ATS pretty much the german wheel manufacturer called ATS? It is. The same guy later went on to found the Rial F1 team.
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Dec 29, 2020 16:03
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the paradigm shift posted:rjr brought back lucky strikes and if anything needs to be on a livery it's that I'm old, so if we're talking tobacco:  Edit: 
Cessna fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Dec 29, 2020 |
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Dec 29, 2020 16:42
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JPS is hard to beat, but the mid 2000s with Luckies on the BAR, Mild Seven on Renault and Benson&Hedges on Jordan were all some pretty good cancer stick liveries
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Dec 29, 2020 17:20
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Frond posted:I would call this a competitive advantage, coupled to the fact that Renault blew it (quite literally) and Piquet was generally superior to the Williams pairing. Whatever name you want to give it is irrelevant. There's a world of difference in finding advantages through novel ideas such as planned pit stops and finding advantages in a pneumatic system that deliberately undermines a rule that was specifically made for that year. We can debate over the semantics of "competitive advantage" and "ignoring the spirit of the rules" as its name, but the difference doesn't come down to how we've named it. It's whether you consider exploiting the letter of the rules a dick move or fair game. It's one of those endless debates that'll rear its head in any system, and clearly you come down on the side of fair game. I won't debate that, because it is an endless and pointless debate. As for the adjudicators themselves, I see that in 82 they finally show us where they draw the line between fair play and dick moves. Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Dec 29, 2020 |
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Dec 29, 2020 17:30
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I think at one point every single car on the ‘82 grid was illegal in some way.
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Dec 29, 2020 17:42
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I'm not debating legalities, though. The 81 Brabham was never illegal. I'm debating the spirit, and Big Brain Bernie Ecclestone was very much a "well technically" kind of huge dick that I don't personally value. His car that year getting away with its technicalities puts a shadow over the victory Piquet won. Rosberg, on the other hand, was stripped of his points when his team tried similar poo poo. He won with a car whose only advantage was that it explodes less and was less prone to killing its driver. There's much less of a shadow over Keke's performance.
Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Dec 29, 2020 |
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Dec 29, 2020 17:44
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I don’t have a lot of nice things to say about Ecclestone, but I love Murray. It could also be said too that Brabham was more or less a one car team from 80-85 aside from the 2 years they employed Patrese. They very clearly did not give a poo poo about the Non-Piquet entry. I think it helped them to the WDC as they could focus all efforts on Piquet’s car (I also think it’s why Patrese left the team).
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Dec 29, 2020 17:54
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There’s a lot of subtext that you’re brushing over with the early 80s championships. The DFV was rolled out I think in ‘67 and was looking pretty long in the tooth and on the way out by the mid 70s. Technology was moving rapidly and the consensus generally was that larger V10/12s made by manufacturers would produce more power. Then suddenly in 77 you have ground effects, which required an engine that was as un-intrusive as possible and the Cosworth was the only thing that fit the bill. So you have a 10 year old engine that was pretty long in the tooth suddenly becoming magically more powerful than anything developed more recently, and it was so powerful that it’s still winning against these technological feats known as turbo engines. There was a real huge animosity between the British DFV teams and the manufacturers and the power struggle between them over the direction the rules went is why you saw a ton of the rule bending stuff that really came to a head in ‘82.
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Dec 29, 2020 17:55
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Murray got hosed multiple times by having Bernie as team owner and its pretty openly acknowledged that Brabham got scrutinized a lot more because of Bernie owning it. To say that Brabham skated on something and Williams didn’t is pretty laughable.
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Dec 29, 2020 17:59
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The FISA-FOCA war was particularly brutal and idiotic. I tend to side with the DFV teams despite my love of Turbocharging because I fundamentally believe they didn’t do anything wrong - it was more due to the non-DFV manufacturers (mainly Ferrari) not mastering the ground effect until like 1981 and having atrocious reliability.
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Dec 29, 2020 18:00
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the corona quid posted:Murray got hosed multiple times by having Bernie as team owner and its pretty openly acknowledged that Brabham got scrutinized a lot more because of Bernie owning it. To say that Brabham skated on something and Williams didn’t is pretty laughable. Among the worst of these takes is that Piquet’s championships like, don’t count, or something, because the car did all the work.
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Dec 29, 2020 18:01
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Frond posted:It is. The same guy later went on to found the Rial F1 team. It just seems wild the way F1 is now that some random aftermarket wheels company was able to run in the highest level of motorsport at the time. Can you imagine now it like HRE or someone just said gently caress it let's start an F1 team
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Dec 29, 2020 18:02
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Worth noting that, despite being a fraudulent criminal as all Her Majesty's Imperialists are, The Duck (Keith Duckworth) invented the best motor ever with the FVA and the DFV and almost all road-going motors ever since have copied its revolutionary intake flow scheme.
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Dec 29, 2020 18:03
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So the "brake coolant" incident was just the DFV teams throwing their toys out of the cot when the rules didn't go their way? That puts more context behind San Marino, but for all their attempts the political scenario was clearly against them. They were not only being pissy dicks, but also pathetically incompetent at politics.
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Dec 29, 2020 18:03
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Azza Bamboo posted:So the "brake coolant" incident was just the DFV teams throwing their toys out of the cot when the rules didn't go their way? More or less. Ken Tyrrell famously would play both sides of the Manufacturer/DFV field. When you get to the ‘84 season, you will see why that would bite him in the rear end. “Incompetent” doesn’t describe it enough.
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Dec 29, 2020 18:08
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track day bro! posted:It just seems wild the way F1 is now that some random aftermarket wheels company was able to run in the highest level of motorsport at the time. The guy was a famously huge rear end in a top hat.
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Dec 29, 2020 18:09
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