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Nice work. That screw through the side of the box (along with everything else you've mentioned) is some amateur hour poo poo. I'd put them on blast on google reviews.
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Dec 22, 2020 23:21
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Ya, I'd have said that you should staple to the stud as well since that goes to the basement, but I'm not an inspector and nobody will care.
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Dec 23, 2020 04:23
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I get easily overwhelmed by switches. The ‘ON’ button on my table saw (5hp, on a 20A 3 phase circuit) is bad and occasionally won’t start or cuts off while running. Works fine again if a blow it out etc. but if figure the guts of the switch need to be replaced. For safety, I’d like to replace it with a mushroom switch you have to pull out to let it restart after turning it off. I don’t know if that would all be built into a new switch or if it would require wiring something else to the motor/controller (which would be beyond my skill). I think the saw has a magnetic motor control/starter? There’s a box on the back with some fuses and wires and stuff if any of that matters. The switch part (maybe it’s called a contact) is in a standard ~4.25”x 2.5” box. The part with the problem was made by Furnas electric co. And has ‘D72629’ molded into it. Pics: https://imgur.com/a/rkgPSho Thanks!
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Dec 23, 2020 21:38
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:I get easily overwhelmed by switches. The ‘ON’ button on my table saw (5hp, on a 20A 3 phase circuit) is bad and occasionally won’t start or cuts off while running. Works fine again if a blow it out etc. but if figure the guts of the switch need to be replaced. For safety, I’d like to replace it with a mushroom switch you have to pull out to let it restart after turning it off. I don’t know if that would all be built into a new switch or if it would require wiring something else to the motor/controller (which would be beyond my skill). Can you post a picture of the "plate" on that? Should have things like Make, Model, Serial Number, and current readings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rating_(electrical)
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Dec 23, 2020 23:02
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:I get easily overwhelmed by switches. The ‘ON’ button on my table saw (5hp, on a 20A 3 phase circuit) is bad and occasionally won’t start or cuts off while running. Works fine again if a blow it out etc. but if figure the guts of the switch need to be replaced. For safety, I’d like to replace it with a mushroom switch you have to pull out to let it restart after turning it off. I don’t know if that would all be built into a new switch or if it would require wiring something else to the motor/controller (which would be beyond my skill). You want a DPST-1NO/1NC switch with emergency stop. Something like this should work https://www.wolfautomation.com/avw4...fxoCAqsQAvD_BwE Nice ones are like $130 You're lucky, that's a standard box opening, so retrofitting should be easy. You'll just wire the switch up the same way it is now, red to N.O., black to N.C. and white to both. You'll probably want a single gang blank metal plate, and then drill/dremel cut it to make a hole for a panel mount switch. E: and like Hawk said, you'll want to make sure that the new switch can handle the current your saw draws.
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Dec 23, 2020 23:07
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H110Hawk posted:Can you post a picture of the "plate" on that? Should have things like Make, Model, Serial Number, and current readings.  Elviscat posted:You want a DPST-1NO/1NC switch with emergency stop.
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Dec 24, 2020 00:38
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:It's hard to get to but that's the important part I think. The start/stop combo is very common. However, it'll be very similar to what you have with the flush "start" and the extended "stop" button. A pull or twist release e-stop style operator will typically be a separate device. It looks like you can get a mushroom head stop in the combo style, but I've never seen them in the wild: https://www.google.com/search?q=800T-FC16F From what I can tell, all you should really need to care about in terms of ratings is that the switch is good for 230V. Since it's 3ph, there's almost certainly a magnetic starter somewhere in there based on how your switch is currently wired. Do you have a schematic or manual? That would be helpful to see how exactly it's wired.
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Dec 24, 2020 01:15
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:It's hard to get to but that's the important part I think. Is the current button a latching style or momentary? If it's latching (push green button in, it stays in until you push the red button, then it pops out) you can just use a plunger switch like the one I linked as pull out to start, push in to stop. I'm pretty sure it's this style based on the symptoms you described. I gave the search term DPST-1NO/1NC because that gets you a switch that's wired and functions exactly like your old one, in this case it means double pole single throw, with one set of normally open and one set of normally closed contacts. It looks like when you press start the red and white wires are connected, energizing the motor (probably via a contactor), when you press stop black and white get connected, probably engaging an electric brake. If it's a momentary switch then you'll need a separate start button, wiring the two together should be pretty easy, if you go that route I'll draw you a diagram.
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Dec 24, 2020 01:36
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It is a momentary switch I guess. I was wondering what that means when I was looking at them. Neither button stays pushed in. I found some combo ones at grainier with a locking mushroom but they are stupid expensive (even for grainger).
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Dec 24, 2020 01:52
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:It is a momentary switch I guess. I was wondering what that means when I was looking at them. Neither button stays pushed in. I found some combo ones at grainier with a locking mushroom but they are stupid expensive (even for grainger). The setup you have is WAY more common than what you're looking for. Mushroom head buttons are typically reserved for emergency stop functions, not normal stops. If done properly, the e-stop will be wired separately, since it's not good practice to use your e-stop as a general machine stop. So long story short, there just aren't that many combo operators that use the locking mushroom head for the stop.
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Dec 24, 2020 02:08
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And given it's definitely 3ph that switch doesn't have the full current going through it, making your shopping easier. (There would need to be more wires if it were 3ph.)
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Dec 24, 2020 02:14
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:It is a momentary switch I guess. I was wondering what that means when I was looking at them. Neither button stays pushed in. I found some combo ones at grainier with a locking mushroom but they are stupid expensive (even for grainger). H110Hawk posted:And given it's definitely 3ph that switch doesn't have the full current going through it, making your shopping easier. (There would need to be more wires if it were 3ph.) Yeah, it's definitely a contractor if it's three phase, that control wire configuration looks like this really common one.  So if you wanted to replace it with some regular pushbuttons like these You could. You could also add a locking E stop to the other buttons by wiring the stop and e stop like in the alternate configuration I drew, which should give you some insight as to how the circuit works.  Basically pressing start shuts a pair of contacts briefly and energizes a coil, that coil powers itself through a set of maintaining contacts, power for the coil also goes through the stop button (or both stop and e-stop) and once you press that it opens the circuit, deenergizing the coil and stopping the machine.
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Dec 24, 2020 03:08
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:I get easily overwhelmed by switches. The ‘ON’ button on my table saw (5hp, on a 20A 3 phase circuit) is bad and occasionally won’t start or cuts off while running. Works fine again if a blow it out etc. but if figure the guts of the switch need to be replaced. For safety, I’d like to replace it with a mushroom switch you have to pull out to let it restart after turning it off. I don’t know if that would all be built into a new switch or if it would require wiring something else to the motor/controller (which would be beyond my skill). You probably have a good idea of what you want already, but IMO consider getting a foot switch for your table saw as well. I picked up an inline (as in just a plug extension) normally-open foot switch off of Amazon for like $20 to use with my home made hot wire cutter and it is really extremely convenient for the table saw as well. It basically acts like a deadman switch so the saw is never on unless you are actively using it, and it is easy enough to depress while holding pieces that you aren't tempted to just leave it running like you would a manual switch. With the inline switch you could still use the mushroom switch on the body as a kind of safety, as well.
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Dec 24, 2020 19:51
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Nevets posted:1) Yes, you have one H/N cable coming into the box, one H/H/N cable leaving the box that is controlled by the switches, and one H/N cable leaving the box that is powering something else and is unaffected by the switches. While you have the circuit breaker off see what else doesn't have power. If those wires are 14 guage and noticibly skinnier than wires you see in boxes with outlets (which should be 12 gauge and therfore thicker) you can be pretty sure the only other things that might be on that circuit are lights. Elviscat posted:That's not an acceptable way to connect those wires to that device, like the poster above me said, you want to connect the incoming and outgoing wires with a wire-nut (or Wago style connector), leaving two short lengths and side or back wire those lengths to the switches individually. Hey forgot to thank you guys for this good advice! I only just now finally got around to replacing the light switches around my house again.  Pigtailing with two short lengths worked perfectly!One follow-up question: Nevets, you mentioned that wires in boxes with outlets should be 12 gauge, but I noticed that all of the outlet boxes on a 15A circuit I've opened up use 14 gauge -- only the outlet boxes on a 20A circuit use 12 gauge. Perhaps it's a difference in the local code? (I'm in Texas currently.)
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Dec 27, 2020 02:38
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floWenoL posted:Hey forgot to thank you guys for this good advice! I only just now finally got around to replacing the light switches around my house again. They were wrong and corrected later. (Including an edit.) For basic home installs 15A = 14 AWG and 20A = 12 AWG.
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Dec 27, 2020 02:46
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This might be more the HVAC thread, so I'm going to crosspost. This old rear end house we bought has electric baseboard heaters in the basement. The thermostat is old and you can't really read any of the temperature settings. We have a total of 2 baseboard heaters on different walls, and I believe they are on different circuits. What the hell kind of basic thermostat do I need for them? I see different options, but I don't need anything more complicated than off and on.
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Dec 27, 2020 03:17
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KKKLIP ART posted:This might be more the HVAC thread, so I'm going to crosspost. This old rear end house we bought has electric baseboard heaters in the basement. The thermostat is old and you can't really read any of the temperature settings. We have a total of 2 baseboard heaters on different walls, and I believe they are on different circuits. What the hell kind of basic thermostat do I need for them? I see different options, but I don't need anything more complicated than off and on. Is the thermostat on the baseboard itself? If so you'll want this one I've had to take them off the mounting plate and modify them to fit the old baseboard before, hopefully that's not your case. If it's a wall thermostat that's easier and you want this guy.
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Dec 28, 2020 00:31
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Elviscat posted:Is the thermostat on the baseboard itself? If so you'll want this one I've had to take them off the mounting plate and modify them to fit the old baseboard before, hopefully that's not your case. On wall, that looks perfect!
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Dec 28, 2020 00:35
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totalnewbie posted:Looks like running a microwave and a toaster oven on the same outlet was no bueno because the outlet no longer works. The breaker, however, did not trip. I flipped it just to be sure but nothing. I was going to replace the outlet with a GFCI at some point anyway so that's why I mentioned it. I'm more or less probably going to end up just finding an electrician but I thought I'd ask if there's any low hanging fruit I could go after in terms of diagnosing the issue? Unrelated question while I'm here - I have a Siemens G2020MB1100 breaker box with what I presume are the original breakers. Any reason to ask him to replace that with something more modern/up-to-date or is it just fine? I have no particular reason to replace it, just thought it might be convenient to do at the same time if there's some value in doing it.
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Dec 28, 2020 04:28
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That looks like a 100 amp service panel. You could make a case for upgrading the panel to at least 150, if not a 200 amp panel. A lot of folks like the Square D (can’t remember the specific line, either the QO or the Homeline) and combo AFCI/GFCI breakers so you are protected from the panel forward on every branch.
KKKLIP ART fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Dec 28, 2020 |
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Dec 28, 2020 05:02
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Thought I'd run this by y'all. I've got a 3-way switch set up to half an outlet with a lamp plugged into it. I just noticed that I can see a small flash inside the switches when flipping them. E.g. between the toggle and it's immediate casing - it's not the wiring. That feels a touch off to me, especially since they're both fairly new. I guess it's not too dangerous since its in the switch but I'd rather it not be doing that. I've got them taped up just in case for now. Any ideas? Thanks! Edit: just did some more poking, could putting bulbs with too much wattage for the lamp do this? (Its got 3x 60w in now, b10)? Or just bulbs nearing end of life? Jenkl fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Dec 28, 2020 |
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Dec 28, 2020 06:18
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Jenkl posted:Thought I'd run this by y'all. This is kind of normal for switches, they don't have the big springs necessary to prevent all arcing under load. KKKLIP ART posted:That looks like a 100 amp service panel. You could make a case for upgrading the panel to at least 150, if not a 200 amp panel. A lot of folks like the Square D (can’t remember the specific line, either the QO or the Homeline) and combo AFCI/GFCI breakers so you are protected from the panel forward on every branch. There's no reason to upgrade unless you need more capacity, space or ampacity wise, Siemens panels are fine, their breakers break just fine, definitely better to wait until there's a good reason. Siemens is an active brand so you can go AFCI/GFCI if you want without replacing the panel. Square D QO and Cutlet Hammer CH are the cremè de la cremè of residential panels, compact 3/4" frame, excellent bus connection methods, trip indicator for QO, Homeline is comparable in quality to a Siemens panel (although I still think SQD makes the most reliable, accurate trip mechanisms out there, based on uh, not shorting/overloading circuits on them for years, uh), I prefer Homeline's ergonomics but that's totally subjective.
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Dec 28, 2020 07:25
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Elviscat posted:This is kind of normal for switches, they don't have the big springs necessary to prevent all arcing under load. Phew. Thanks.
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Dec 28, 2020 16:37
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KKKLIP ART posted:That looks like a 100 amp service panel. You could make a case for upgrading the panel to at least 150, if not a 200 amp panel. A lot of folks like the Square D (can’t remember the specific line, either the QO or the Homeline) and combo AFCI/GFCI breakers so you are protected from the panel forward on every branch. QO. Homeline is big box store downmarket poo poo at nearly the full price of QO anyway, so there's no point. lovely breaker choice, aluminum buss bar.
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Dec 28, 2020 16:45
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Motronic posted:QO. Homeline is big box store downmarket poo poo at nearly the full price of QO anyway, so there's no point. Homeline was great for the tandems/quads that allowed you to get double the circuits in a small panel. Of course, modern NEC requires combo AFCI/GFCIs for pretty much every circuit, so tough luck on your tandems. I still like Homeline, it's just necessary to make sure the 'spaces' is what you need, not the 'circuits'. I'll take a SQD panel (even HL) over any other brand for the ubiquity of parts (HD, Lowes, Amazon are all authorized retailers) and general construction quality.
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Dec 29, 2020 03:19
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B-Nasty posted:Homeline was great for the tandems/quads that allowed you to get double the circuits in a small panel. Of course, modern NEC requires combo AFCI/GFCIs for pretty much every circuit, so tough luck on your tandems. Tandems are a thing in QO-land as well. But yeah, that usefulness is going away. Living in a humid area, I still just can't get behind the lovely buss bar in the homeline panels. It's such a goddamn disappointment of a penny pinching move. I find CH to be just as ubiquitous as QO with Homeline close behind locally. But I'm sure that has a lot to do with the install base of any given locality.
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Dec 29, 2020 15:23
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Jenkl posted:Phew. Replacing the switch with a better quality one can eliminate/reduce this. Buy the one that's like 5-6 bucks from HD instead of the 1-2 dollar one. More and better materials, etc. If you can see or hear an arc it's going to die soon anyway.
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Dec 29, 2020 15:39
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I will say I've been pretty annoyed at the availability of Square D breakers due to COVID. I heard a rumor that their manufacturing locations were shutdown early in the pandemic and still haven't gotten back to 100%. Siemens either wasn't hit as bad, or maybe there's less DIYers eating up the stock. The common ones (15s or 20s) are around, but I had to do some searching for a 60 DP recently. I even resorted to ordering a rarer one on Amazon, which I hate doing in the event the breaker is defective.
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Dec 29, 2020 17:22
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Noob question: how do y'all deal with 'cable management' inside switch/outlet boxes? For example, I was replacing the light switches on a 2-gang box. The old switches weren't grounded, so I had to make three pigtails with two new wire caps, plus the power lines were wired sloppily (like I posted about before) so that needed another couple of pigtails and another cap. Add the fact that the wires were 12 gauge, and the light switches were bulkier since they were for 20A circuits, and it was a real struggle getting everything to fit -- I had to make multiple attempts to screw everything in since I kept seeing e.g. power wires right next to ground wires, etc. which made me a bit uneasy.  Any tips or tricks I'm missing?
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Dec 31, 2020 01:24
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floWenoL posted:Noob question: how do y'all deal with 'cable management' inside switch/outlet boxes? For example, I was replacing the light switches on a 2-gang box. The old switches weren't grounded, so I had to make three pigtails with two new wire caps, plus the power lines were wired sloppily (like I posted about before) so that needed another couple of pigtails and another cap. 12awg just sucks no two ways around it. Even getting 1 pigtailed outlet into a single gang can be a real pain in the rear end. Kinda giving them a "hint" pre-fold helps. From your wording I'm wondering if you wound up with too many pigtails, as though there were such a thing, cramping your style. Did you happen to take any pictures before buttoning it up? If not, can you sketch out all the blacks you did, including the nuts and devices?
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Dec 31, 2020 01:32
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Yes I truly regret buying a huge spool of 12 gauge wire and thinking "well it works for 15 AND 20 amp circuits, I can just buy one kind and save money!!" My technique so far has been lots of swearing, redoing things multiple times, and spending 2x as long on the task as I expected.
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Dec 31, 2020 01:35
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I believe right now I only own 200' of 12/2 and 50' of 14/3. They are both awful in their own special way.
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Dec 31, 2020 01:52
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I’m so glad my house was built with true 2x4 timber because I can use deep boxes wherever I’m adding new receptacles. 12/2 in a standard depth single gang just sucks.
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Dec 31, 2020 02:19
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TacoHavoc posted:Replacing the switch with a better quality one can eliminate/reduce this. Buy the one that's like 5-6 bucks from HD instead of the 1-2 dollar one. More and better materials, etc. If you can see or hear an arc it's going to die soon anyway. Huh, interesting. I don't think I've seen two varieties of the exact same switch. They're both new (~1 year) so that's a smidge annoying. Just checked online here and there is a more expensive one, but it seems it just claims it's "framed" and has a more robust mounting strap. Maybe the rest of the build is better too. Thanks.
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Dec 31, 2020 02:41
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H110Hawk posted:12awg just sucks no two ways around it. Even getting 1 pigtailed outlet into a single gang can be a real pain in the rear end. Kinda giving them a "hint" pre-fold helps. From your wording I'm wondering if you wound up with too many pigtails, as though there were such a thing, cramping your style. Did you happen to take any pictures before buttoning it up? If not, can you sketch out all the blacks you did, including the nuts and devices? I didn't take a picture, but here's a rough sketch:  So there's one red nut for all the power wires, one red nut for all the neutrals, and two green nuts for all the grounds (brown is bare copper, and I like to use insulated green wire for ground pigtails for extra insulation). I could get rid of one green cap if I had a cap that could fit 6 12-gauge wires, I suppose...
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Dec 31, 2020 05:34
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floWenoL posted:I didn't take a picture, but here's a rough sketch: This should be framed as the example of an amazing diagram. Thank you for this. No this is perfect, you just have a nightmare box. God speed.
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Dec 31, 2020 05:43
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floWenoL posted:I didn't take a picture, but here's a rough sketch: Nice diagram. I'm not certain, but I don't think using insulated ground wire is actually helping you. My understanding of grounding is that it is there only for when poo poo goes wrong, in which case you want a path for all the wild free electricity to find a path to safety as easily as possible. Using insulated wire near the switch is not bad, but it is defeating the safety of the last couple inches of wire. On the other hand, if your ramming all of that wire in there, there is a good chance a bare ground might hit the exposed screws on the side of the switch thus causing a short, but you can also mitigate that risk by wrapping a loop of electrical tape around the switch to cover all of the screws. The ring of electrical tape is also smart if you like to reach in and grab the sides of the outlet or switch you forgot to turn off by the screws (my living room has about a dozen breakers, guess how I found out which one is on the same 20 amp circuit as my dish washer).
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Dec 31, 2020 05:57
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H110Hawk posted:This should be framed as the example of an amazing diagram. Thank you for this. No this is perfect, you just have a nightmare box. God speed. That's what I was afraid of! Thankfully this is the only 20A switch box in the house, so hopefully I won't have to open it up again.Not Wolverine posted:Nice diagram. I'm not certain, but I don't think using insulated ground wire is actually helping you. My understanding of grounding is that it is there only for when poo poo goes wrong, in which case you want a path for all the wild free electricity to find a path to safety as easily as possible. Using insulated wire near the switch is not bad, but it is defeating the safety of the last couple inches of wire. On the other hand, if your ramming all of that wire in there, there is a good chance a bare ground might hit the exposed screws on the side of the switch thus causing a short, but you can also mitigate that risk by wrapping a loop of electrical tape around the switch to cover all of the screws. The ring of electrical tape is also smart if you like to reach in and grab the sides of the outlet or switch you forgot to turn off by the screws (my living room has about a dozen breakers, guess how I found out which one is on the same 20 amp circuit as my dish washer). By "wild free electricity" do you mean arcing that happens inside the box? I haven't heard about that being a risk before, do you know of any source that talks about it? My understanding is that the grounding is more for protection for appliances like toasters, etc., that bare wire is used in Romex primarily for cost, and that ideally all grounding wire inside the house would be insulated. But I'm new at this, so I'm interested in hearing the arguments for leaving it bare...I did some searching and only could find arguments for insulated! FWIW this video is where I originally heard to use insulated ground wire, for the reason you stated, to avoid accidental shorts. I keep forgetting to tape up the screws, but I'll try it next time I change a switch/outlet. How'd you survive grabbing a live outlet/switch by the screws?
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Dec 31, 2020 06:51
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floWenoL posted:How'd you survive grabbing a live outlet/switch by the screws? I’ve been zapped a few times with 110, especially when I was young and dumb and trusted disconnects to actually disconnect. As long as it doesn’t cross the heart it hurts like gently caress but doesn’t kill you. Not something you should ever risk doing however. Buy a non-contact voltage detector, it’s cheaper than a funeral.
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Dec 31, 2020 07:16
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floWenoL posted:How'd you survive grabbing a live outlet/switch by the screws? 120vac ain't so bad, just try to do it one handed.
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Dec 31, 2020 07:22
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