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Filthy Hans posted:I looked up the cast to see what they're up to and Alan Tudyk apparently has a booming career in voice acting He's K-2SO in Rogue One, among other things 
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Jan 1, 2021 17:28
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I though Alan Tudyk had died, so count me pleasant surprised that he has notThe United States posted:the best summary of gamergate as reactionary kulturkampf: most of this post was good but this part sucks rear end. the wave of vitriol that erupts around any queer, trans, PoC or even woman character in a video game is not neutral, it isn't the fault of not being ten years old, it is reactionary bile and it restricts the free expression of creators to make the game and tell the story that they want. this is even setting aside the broader cultural problems we have around those concepts, why it is that the staff of game studios are overwhelmingly straight and white and cis and male far out of proportion with the demographics around them - just the basic principle of getting death threats because your main character is black, is enough to make the lower 2/3 of this image bad
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Jan 1, 2021 17:42
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bedpan posted:yep, it is called cspam Indeed it has been said that cspam is the worst form of Posting except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time
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Jan 1, 2021 17:54
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Filthy Hans posted:I looked up the cast to see what they're up to and Alan Tudyk apparently has a booming career in voice acting He’s also in everything else that uses voices and faces and acting. He’s great. Him shouting the n-word for hours in 43 was jarring to say the least.
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Jan 1, 2021 17:58
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Dang It Bhabhi! posted:He’s also in everything else that uses voices and faces and acting. He’s great. He's possibly the best actor/best performance in the first few Michael Bay Transformers movies, where he plays an amnesiac special ops battle butler with a big crush on John Turturro. I am not making this up.
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Jan 1, 2021 18:04
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Filthy Hans posted:I looked up the cast to see what they're up to and Alan Tudyk apparently has a booming career in voice acting He's had a great post-Firefly career. He was in the original Broadway cast of Spamalot, has a pretty decent web comedy series, and has been cashing fat Disney checks as a voice actor.
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Jan 1, 2021 18:19
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I literally only know that guy from seeing Dodgeball once in college.
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Jan 1, 2021 18:49
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Mario is a creepy incel power fantasy. Princess Mushroom and King Koopa are clearly a couple and Mario keeps inserting himself into their relationship like a weirdo. Think about it, he's short and fat. Dude is basically Jon Pop. Meanwhile, Sonic is an internationally recognized gay sex symbol and has been topping Tails and running away from annoying women. What we are seeing is a function of Nintendo winning the console wars.
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Jan 1, 2021 19:17
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Jose posted:0 likes or retweets so how do you even see this poo poo or post it here more people have interacted with the never seen never acknowledged tweet on this website than on the site it was posted on talk about saving poo poo from the abyss
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Jan 1, 2021 19:54
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Speaking of internet atheists: I am thinking about making a thread to discuss the movement and how it and the larger "skeptic" movement seem to have collapsed utterly in the last couple of years. There was a time where Dawkins was a genuinely respected science writer, and now, well, https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/1341801500583088128?s=20 Internet atheism composed a big part of my early (2002-ish) internet experience, and I think that's probably true for many of you as well. During its prime, Dawkins formed the intellectual fulcrum of the whole thing, with several other authors orbiting his star (Harris, Dennett, Shermer, etc.), Penn and Teller's Bullshit! bringing up the broader entertainment front, and a growing antemedia of podcasts like Skeptic's Guide to the Universe while the front lines of the antireligious culture war were represented on forums like SA, Reddit, and whatever handful of vocal New Atheist guys inhabited every video game board on the internet. It really was right around the time of Elevatorgate (2013-2014?) that the whole thing seems to have splintered. I feel like I haven't seen a fraction of the number of people I used to see openly identifying as a capital-A Atheist as I used to, and the sphere of authors seems to get a lot less representation, possibly because they've either completely lost the plot like Dawkins or have simply shifted gears into the podcast arena like Sam Harris, but I remember a time when one of their tentpole books came out that it was something of an event. I was convinced that my shiny mirrored first printing copy of The God Delusion would be worth something someday, and now I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who would even admit to owning a copy, let alone taking it seriously as a thought-provoking work of philosophical argument. It's really quite a bizarre phenomenon, because by all rights a robust skeptic movement should be having its time in the sun right now, given how absolutely and painfully loving stupid everything has become. Or maybe it's that a skeptic movement of the sort that existed in 2010 or so could only have had prominence against the relative tranquility of the culture as compared to now, I'm not sure. I think it could be an interesting thing to give some kind of post-mortem to, since I'm sure that if you're a goon of late-20's-mid-30's age there's a good chance you were a New Atheist at some point, because it was rampant on these forums for a period
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Jan 1, 2021 19:58
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Me early 20's: Friendship ended with New Atheism. Pagan Animism is my new friend.
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Jan 1, 2021 20:14
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Heath posted:Speaking of internet atheists: I am thinking about making a thread to discuss the movement and how it and the larger "skeptic" movement seem to have collapsed utterly in the last couple of years. There was a time where Dawkins was a genuinely respected science writer, and now, well, i think it'd be an interesting thread. i'd also note that the alt-right is following a pretty similar trajectory to the skeptic movement, and i think you can make the argument that the alt-right is simply a reaction to the failures of new atheism.
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Jan 1, 2021 20:20
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just spitballing but i feel like the next reactionary thing is gonna be musk-style hypercapitalism successwin bullshit, idk.
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Jan 1, 2021 20:21
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It's less crap like "elevatorgate" and more that the anglosphere lost it's goddamn mind after 9/11 and 7/11. There was a divide between the anti-war left and the pro-war right, with the pro-war right using a lot of anti-islamic messaging coded as atheist language. Since new atheism was very much a privileged white male movement, it already had a lot of blindspots so it nestled in quite comfortably with the broader right wing culture in the US and UK.
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Jan 1, 2021 20:38
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Heath posted:Speaking of internet atheists: I am thinking about making a thread to discuss the movement and how it and the larger "skeptic" movement seem to have collapsed utterly in the last couple of years. There was a time where Dawkins was a genuinely respected science writer, and now, well, It’s because most of them never understood skepticism and only wanted an easy enemy to defeat, and gormless creationists on the internet made the perfect target. It was a reaction to the dumb religiosity and hyper-patriotism of the Bush years, but all those young horny guys angry about John Roberts being a creationist got real mad when women told them they were uninviting and that feminism was part of skepticism and just wanted to flatter themselves as the smartest guys in the world. It was basically the dress rehearsal for gamergate. I still remember every year on the Skeptic’s Guide to the Universe they would explain how they got hundreds of emails that year complaining about how Rebecca Watson’s weekly profiles in science was biased against men and only featured women and then shared a statistical breakdown showing that 30% of her profiles were about women scientists. I agree with the post above that the next evolution of the reactionary internet white boy will be a spin away from explicit nihilistic fascism and toward Elon Musk great-man hypercapitalism. It gets them their self-flattery and hatred of women, since obviously there are no women Elons or black Elons.
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Jan 1, 2021 20:39
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VinylonUnderground posted:It's less crap like "elevatorgate" and more that the anglosphere lost it's goddamn mind after 9/11 and 7/11. There was a divide between the anti-war left and the pro-war right, with the pro-war right using a lot of anti-islamic messaging coded as atheist language. Since new atheism was very much a privileged white male movement, it already had a lot of blindspots so it nestled in quite comfortably with the broader right wing culture in the US and UK. Skepticism as an organized movement in the US really grew under Bush and as a reaction to his domestic policies and folksy religiosity, though. I do agree that it massively soured once Islam became the major focus, and that there wasn’t much opposition to US imperial war abroad because of confidence in the power of secular western civilization to improve and elevate the world.
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Jan 1, 2021 20:42
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I could be getting the timelines confused, I wasn't on the internet much at that time. I just remember Harris et al going insane and basically viewing the struggle as a religious conflict but instead of Bush's Christian vs Muslim it was secular west vs decadent east.
VinylonUnderground has issued a correction as of 20:47 on Jan 1, 2021 |
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Jan 1, 2021 20:45
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internet atheism was post 9/11 it was never really a thing pre 2001. I get your mad about the Elevatir thing for some dumb reason but no reason to make poo poo up
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Jan 1, 2021 20:46
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I just find it incredulous that a bunch of privileged cishet white dudes are going to get brought down by being mean to a woman since that's more a default state for that group. Shouting down women when you are already shouting them down isn't a status change.
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Jan 1, 2021 20:49
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LordSaturn posted:most of this post was good but this part sucks rear end. the wave of vitriol that erupts around any queer, trans, PoC or even woman character in a video game is not neutral, it isn't the fault of not being ten years old, it is reactionary bile and it restricts the free expression of creators to make the game and tell the story that they want. There is of course no alternative, non-reactionary right wing explanation being broadcast out there to the 'gaming' masses.
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Jan 1, 2021 20:50
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my objection is to the part where it assigns the internal process of the "SJW" according to the reactionary view of them, rather than anything they actually say about themselves
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Jan 1, 2021 20:54
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VinylonUnderground posted:It's less crap like "elevatorgate" and more that the anglosphere lost it's goddamn mind after 9/11 and 7/11. There was a divide between the anti-war left and the pro-war right, with the pro-war right using a lot of anti-islamic messaging coded as atheist language. Since new atheism was very much a privileged white male movement, it already had a lot of blindspots so it nestled in quite comfortably with the broader right wing culture in the US and UK. The New Atheists really rose to prominence after 9/11. "Elevatorgate" marks the decline of the New Atheist movement, broadly speaking, but not the sole cause of it. New Atheists that I encountered had a pretty broad political spectrum, at least at first - they were how I discovered the Communist Manifesto as a teenager, as well as postwar Secular Humanist socialist writers; in fact, I remember being 15 and buying the Communist Manifesto and Smith's Atheism: The Case Against God on the same day. There were plenty of people who were either Atheist Communists or Communist Atheists, depending on which half of that equation motivated them more. Anti-Islam sentiment was rampant among all of them, but it was also rampant among everybody in the wake of 9/11. There were also plenty of libertarian sorts, since libertarianism was at the time the lone refuge for the politically right-wing but socially liberal, but broad strokes fascistic right attitudes were so lockstep that being at all liberal made you stand out against the background radiation of This Is Are Country. This is all from a US perspective, obviously. If anything the political breakdown happened as the war started to sour in peoples' minds and the country generally started to slide back toward the political middle and the libertarians and the left-wing people were no longer broadly on "the same side" as skewed by the preponderance of the neoconservative zeitgeist. But it took a long time for those divisions to properly break down, at least close to a decade (roughly over the course of Obama's presidency in my estimation)
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Jan 1, 2021 20:58
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VinylonUnderground posted:I just find it incredulous that a bunch of privileged cishet white dudes are going to get brought down by being mean to a woman since that's more a default state for that group. Shouting down women when you are already shouting them down isn't a status change. I mean internet atheists didn’t die they just funneled to the alt right and the skeptic movement. New Atheism was mainly about owning Christianity. ,
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Jan 1, 2021 21:03
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Skepticism as an organized movement in the US really grew under Bush and as a reaction to his domestic policies and folksy religiosity, though. I do agree that it massively soured once Islam became the major focus, and that there wasn’t much opposition to US imperial war abroad because of confidence in the power of secular western civilization to improve and elevate the world. I think an unexplored part of the turn of the New Atheist/Skeptic movement is how up until the post-GWB rebrand of the GOP, there was no political home for reactionary atheists/skeptics. Going back generations, the Republicans had been painting Dems as Godless Commies, and while the Dems were just as up for hyper-Christian bullshit as the GOP, one could be a Dem and an atheist in a way that it was simply impossible to be a Republican and an atheist (a few notable examples notwithstanding). It wasn't until the Culture Warriors had well and truly lost the fight that the GOP was willing to officially open up the doors to atheists, so long as they hate the right people and are on board with the conservative vision of empire, which they happily were, as they'd spent a good portion of the previous decade nurturing a deep and abiding hatred of Muslims.
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Jan 1, 2021 21:05
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I guess my timeline may be off. Harris was defending torture in 2006 so to me anyone that would allow that would be an uncomfortably rightwing space. Then again, I was branded a troll as recently as 2017 on SA (and SA was still more leftwing than a lot of other places on the internet) because I argued that direct action by BLM protestors like blocking freeways was a good thing and that antifa are good and not bad. The gooncensus at the time was that BLM was whiny and overdramatic and that antifa were as bad as fascist and were scary/bad. So I could see other people perceiving it as more politically mixed whereas it would just look unacceptably rightwing to me.
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Jan 1, 2021 21:39
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VinylonUnderground posted:I guess my timeline may be off. Harris was defending torture in 2006 so to me anyone that would allow that would be an uncomfortably rightwing space. Then again, I was branded a troll as recently as 2017 on SA (and SA was still more leftwing than a lot of other places on the internet) because I argued that direct action by BLM protestors like blocking freeways was a good thing and that antifa are good and not bad. The gooncensus at the time was that BLM was whiny and overdramatic and that antifa were as bad as fascist and were scary/bad. So I could see other people perceiving it as more politically mixed whereas it would just look unacceptably rightwing to me. yea that's what happens when you post in D&D lol
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Jan 1, 2021 21:47
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The importance of Elevatorgate is that it basically represented a real eruption of attitudes that had been fomenting among the movement for some time, namely: 1) that New Atheism had a serious Boy's Club problem, something hotly contested exclusively by men, and that female members were often harassed online, dismissed in person, and abused at conventions; 2) that up until then one of the major foils against American Christianity had been the fundamental hypocrisy of its major representatives, which butts up against some difficulty when the major atheist proselytizers are also hypocrites - you can't effectively criticize the Catholic Church for covering up abuse when you're refusing to dissociate from serial rapist Michael Shermer and continuing to host him as a guest speaker when his entire M.O. was to find victims at conventions; 3) that many of the New Atheists only objected to Christianity on the basis that they don't like the God part but are completely cool with the rest of it. Dawkins is the prime example here, since in most respects he's as much an Anglican as he ever was, he just doesn't like the part about appealing to Divinity to explain biology; 4) pursuant to (1) that women, women's rights, and especially Muslim women's rights, are only of concern to many New Atheists when they can be used against feminists. Dawkins' "Dear Muslima" letter is a loving legendary piece of posting for that reason, because the tone of it was that the American woman doth protest too much for saying that she's uncomfortable when she's cornered by a man on an enclosed elevator, since she isn't having her genitals mutilated or whatever dumb point he was trying to make. For someone who had up to that point been considered a talented and thoughtful writer he managed to produce something so unbelievably distasteful to basically everybody that it really did create an unfixable crack in the skeptisphere. Imbued as it was with such an immeasurable amount of smarm, cynical concern trolling and callous dismissal of a completely reasonable request on the part of Rebecca Watson, Dawkins managed to do in one post what a legion of internet trolls couldn't if they were trying.
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Jan 1, 2021 21:52
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Spergin Morlock posted:yea that's what happens when you post in D&D lol Yeah, it's a real "Fool me way too many times, deep and unending shame on me". Heath's take above looks pretty solid and makes sense to me and clarifies how everything fits together.
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Jan 1, 2021 22:08
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it's not enough to sustain a right-wing project with just the hicks, you also need middle-class liberals who believe themselves to be defenders of the enlightenment. i think this is also might be somewhat of an imported british ideology since british liberals liked to justify the british empire as a civilizing "white man's burden." see, richard dawkins, christopher hitchens. i don't think dawkins supported the wars actually, but being anti-muslim was a big current to new atheism. and that allowed those liberals to get on board while also still staying "at odds with" the bush administration's evangelism. jordan peterson, the IDW, etc. is a similar kind of thing and some of the skeptics jumped on board with it: sam harris, michael shermer. the idea is to create an intellectual / highbrow component to the right under trump. same bullshit about campus crazies but jordy p is polished and sophisticated enough to sell it to a different crowd. hack frauds, all of them.
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Jan 1, 2021 22:21
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:it's not enough to sustain a right-wing project with just the hicks, you also need middle-class liberals who believe themselves to be defenders of the enlightenment. i think this is also might be somewhat of an imported british ideology since british liberals liked to justify the british empire as a civilizing "white man's burden." see, richard dawkins, christopher hitchens. i don't think dawkins supported the wars actually, but being anti-muslim was a big current to new atheism. and that allowed those liberals to get on board while also still staying "at odds with" the bush administration's evangelism. Peterson is weird, because he kind of went viral really fast but sort of leaned more towards bad faith calmly debating intellectual stuff. That attracted a chunk of moderates very quickly and he was poised to really become a major right wing figure and then just...didn't. I don't even think Joe Rogan is interested in him any more, and that's usually my bar for "what right wing grifter will appeal to centrists the most"
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Jan 1, 2021 23:00
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Peterson committed the ultimate sin of actually believing what he was pitching, which resulted in his accepting a debate with an actual super qualified intellectual from among his detractors at a venue and with a moderator that were not in the bag for him.
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Jan 1, 2021 23:05
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kitten emergency posted:just spitballing but i feel like the next reactionary thing is gonna be musk-style hypercapitalism successwin bullshit, idk. thats already happening?
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Jan 1, 2021 23:11
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https://twitter.com/broderick/status/657155787526131712
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Jan 1, 2021 23:11
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:it's not enough to sustain a right-wing project with just the hicks, you also need middle-class liberals who believe themselves to be defenders of the enlightenment. i think this is also might be somewhat of an imported british ideology since british liberals liked to justify the british empire as a civilizing "white man's burden." see, richard dawkins, christopher hitchens. i don't think dawkins supported the wars actually, but being anti-muslim was a big current to new atheism. and that allowed those liberals to get on board while also still staying "at odds with" the bush administration's evangelism. yeah i think the reaction to the harpers letter was interesting for this reason. you can vaguely look at it as the last attempt to keep the intellectual veneer of "chud thought" socially acceptable, and idk if it really worked out given how quickly many signatories backed off. i think the entire "dark enlightenment" thing that was buttressing the middle-class lib side of the alt-right and i think it might be dead or minimized aside from lost cause sorts.
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Jan 1, 2021 23:11
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Jan 1, 2021 23:18
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CharlestheHammer posted:internet atheism was post 9/11 it was never really a thing pre 2001. it wasn't an organized thing or much of a market for celebrity, books or zines, but #atheism sure had plenty of people on every irc network, and an evo vs cre debate was likely the largest shitstorm of a thread on any philosophy/religion focused mailing list/newsgroup/etc by the late 90s. it was easy to stumble into "owning the xians with logic" as a hobby for as long as i've been online
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Jan 1, 2021 23:29
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I'm this close to starting a thread about the immortal science of Skoden https://twitter.com/ArborErich/status/1344878204692160513
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Jan 1, 2021 23:34
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Epic High Five posted:Peterson committed the ultimate sin of actually believing what he was pitching, which resulted in his accepting a debate with an actual super qualified intellectual from among his detractors at a venue and with a moderator that were not in the bag for him. just to be clear, you're talking about Zizek? I've heard people call him a lot of things, but never 'qualified'
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Jan 2, 2021 00:39
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LordSaturn posted:just to be clear, you're talking about Zizek? I've heard people call him a lot of things, but never 'qualified' Qualified to debate things. (Which isn't a hard bar to pass, you just have to know at least something beforehand about whatever the debate is going to be about. Peterson was not qualified.)
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Jan 2, 2021 00:40
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I mean anyone looks qualified next to a person whose prep involves skimming a book that is kind of relevant
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Jan 2, 2021 00:42
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