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Quantum Toast posted:Canon accepted. Oh good, so I'm not a raging lunatic
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Dec 31, 2020 00:52
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...Maybe it's just stubbornness, but I refuse to believe that what you're doing in that section is unironically meant to be portrayed as a good thing. After all, there's even Gorons who explicitly state how awful the whole slavery situation is. This is probably supposed to be some Spec Ops: The Line-esque stuff where you're doing something atrocious to easily achieve your goals, casting a deep shadow over the moral integrity of the hero and so on and so forth. Problem is it doesn't work at all because there's no reason why you shouldn't have any other options here aside from the most morally abhorrent one.
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Dec 31, 2020 00:55
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This was glorious, start to finish. 
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Dec 31, 2020 00:58
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Carpator Diei posted:...Maybe it's just stubbornness, but I refuse to believe that what you're doing in that section is unironically meant to be portrayed as a good thing. After all, there's even Gorons who explicitly state how awful the whole slavery situation is. This is probably supposed to be some Spec Ops: The Line-esque stuff where you're doing something atrocious to easily achieve your goals, casting a deep shadow over the moral integrity of the hero and so on and so forth. Problem is it doesn't work at all because there's no reason why you shouldn't have any other options here aside from the most morally abhorrent one. I have to believe that this is an extremely dumb and poorly-handled "who is the real monster" thing. I can't deal with the idea that someone actually decided to play Rage over Link union-busting for the slaver Gorons and having this be a good thing. I've thought about asking the hacker what the deal is but how do you even begin that conversation? "Hi, I was wondering if you endorse slavery or just didn't think this through at all?"
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Dec 31, 2020 01:47
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Yeah this is definitely supposed to be a joke about the hero not being heroic, but compared to the cartoonishness of lighting a child on fire in a slaughterhouse, union busting for the sake of a group of slavers set to RATM just isn't as funny as it is offputting.
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Dec 31, 2020 02:26
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the hack’s sense of humor has pretty consistently been based on the protagonists/NPCs casually being awful so I really doubt the creator is trying to say “slavery is cool actually” here. they’re just going way overboard with the edginess is all it has that real "hack made by a teenager who's good at coding" feel to it Augus fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Dec 31, 2020 |
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Dec 31, 2020 02:27
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Augus posted:the hack’s sense of humor has pretty consistently been based on the protagonists/NPCs casually being awful so I really doubt the creator is trying to say “slavery is cool actually” here. they’re just going way overboard with the edginess is all Given how this is handled and the tone of the rest of the hack I think it's definitely this. Tone deaf and stupid.
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Dec 31, 2020 02:57
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I'm reserving judgment on the creator until we see the rest of the Moblin area, all I know from the first part is that this area makes me feel bad and I'd like it to please stop
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Dec 31, 2020 03:22
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Augus posted:the hack’s sense of humor has pretty consistently been based on the protagonists/NPCs casually being awful so I really doubt the creator is trying to say “slavery is cool actually” here. they’re just going way overboard with the edginess is all I don't disagree with this take at all, to be clear, although we kinda think the author is trending a bit more toward the South Park "lol nothing matters" category. At the end of the day though, it really doesn't matter what their intentions were, they made a game in which you progress by helping the slavers put down an uprising with some extremely pathetic both-sides-ism to come. Those are all actions, symbols, and words that mean things and the list of circumstances that make it "okay" is... Well, we're going to leave it at "very short." Either all of these pieces were chosen intentionally, in which case that's one hell of a big yikes, or he merely coincidentally choose a bunch of edgy factors and just so happened to put together a section where you help genocide enslaved moblins while Rage plays and how much of a difference does that make, really?
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Dec 31, 2020 04:13
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It's dumb and awful and inappropriate no matter what way you look at it, yeah.
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Dec 31, 2020 04:36
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Honestly, I also understood the music being used in an ironic sense... the same way one would put "The Blue Danube" over war crimes, you know? And the bad trumpets unintentionally(?) really add to the grotesque there. Could be that I missed something, but I don't remember any NPC telling us this is a good thing Goku's doing, save for the greedy, genocidal slavers. I watched a bit ahead of the stream (and heard about some of the endings) and even the both-side-ism feels more like everyone in Abello is kind of a crazy rear end in a top hat, not that it justifies Goku's current actions. It could also be that French society is way less polarized than in the US, and one could be seen "criticizing both sides" while also working to make a better world. Like, idk, I see an old-timey anarchist song, slavers depicted as greedy capitalists, shooting arrows at the face of a corrupt right-wing politician, Benallas, a Sidi Wacho graffiti (a pretty openly antifascist band, who've sang alongside the New Anticapitalist Party's founder). And I could interpret that as the author not understanding the political subtext of ANY songs, including the very obvious French ones. But it seems more likely that he knew full well what he was doing, and the contrast was intended. But I'm not sure the world of Zelda was the best place to have this kind of story? So it still looks incredibly childish and edgy, and makes it way too easy to disregard its intent. On the other hand, this is way more entertaining as a Zelda mod of all things.
Miacis fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Dec 31, 2020 |
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Dec 31, 2020 12:58
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Miacis posted:But I'm not sure the world of Zelda was the best place to have this kind of story? So it still looks incredibly childish and edgy, and makes it way too easy to disregard its intent. Yeah, I really can't stop drawing mental comparisons to Reborn with this hack, tonally speaking. Mechanically, I'm really impressed, but there's just so much  here that I'm astounded.
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Dec 31, 2020 17:09
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Between the dawning realization/horror of the commentators and the hideous synth horns I laughed until it hurt.
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Dec 31, 2020 23:38
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 Is it hard? Is it soft? I don't know, I'm not a geologist! ------------- Happy New Year everyone! We're planning to return to our streams tomorrow night at the usual time of 9PM EST. I'll be uploading a video tomorrow afternoon to get the episodes and the stream's beginning as close to each other as possible. I'll make another reminder tomorrow.
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Jan 1, 2021 22:21
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We've always been at war against the Moblins
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Jan 1, 2021 22:40
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Fire Temple: Metroid Prime 3 - Bryyo Ah, you say it's both-sides-ism, but what if the Moblins are simply eating the rich? Bet you feel ashamed of your words and deeds 
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Jan 1, 2021 23:18
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In what % of Zelda games is the second major dungeon fire-themed or set in a mountain? I feel like it's higher than you'd expect.
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Jan 2, 2021 00:01
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C-Euro posted:In what % of Zelda games is the second major dungeon fire-themed or set in a mountain? I feel like it's higher than you'd expect. Well, there's Ocarina of Time (Dodongo's Cavern), Majora's Mask (Snowhead Temple), Wind Waker (counting Dragon Roost Cavern as the second dungeon and Forsaken Fortress first time as the first), Minish Cap (Cave of Flames), Twilight Princess (Death Mountain), technically Phantom Hourglass (if you count the first visit to the Temple of the Ocean King as the first dungeon, that makes Temple of Fire the second)... OK, those are the ones I remember.
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Jan 2, 2021 00:24
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C-Euro posted:In what % of Zelda games is the second major dungeon fire-themed or set in a mountain? I feel like it's higher than you'd expect. Let's see... Ocarina of Time: Dodongo's Cavern Majora's Mask: Snowhead Temple Wind Waker: Dragon Roost Cavern is the first dungeon, the first visit to Forsaken Fortress doesn't count  Minish Cap: Cave of Flames Twilight Princess: Goron Mines Phantom Hourglass: Like Wind Waker, I don't count the first visit to Temple of the Ocean King as a dungeon, so Temple of Fire is disqualified Skyward Sword: Earth Temple Link Between Worlds and Breath of the Wild have no defined dungeon order and so are excluded. 5/14 gives us only 36%, honestly lower than I would have thought.
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Jan 2, 2021 00:26
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I'm just gonna not comment on the whole incredibly hamfisted both-sidesism and say that I kinda hope the skull kid just takes 800 rupees from you if you talk to it again later.
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Jan 2, 2021 00:29
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Procrastine posted:Link Between Worlds...[has] no defined dungeon order Not entirely true.You have to do Eastern Palace first every time, then the wind dungeon I forget the name of and Tower of Hera in either order, then you get access to the sand dungeon, I think? And only then does everything else open up. The point is, neither Tower of Hera nor the wind dungeon is fire-themed, so ALBW doesn't count...but it was excluded anyway, so whatever.
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Jan 2, 2021 01:47
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Epicmissingno posted:Not entirely true.You have to do Eastern Palace first every time, then the wind dungeon I forget the name of and Tower of Hera in either order, then you get access to the sand dungeon, I think? And only then does everything else open up. The point is, neither Tower of Hera nor the wind dungeon is fire-themed, so ALBW doesn't count...but it was excluded anyway, so whatever. Tower of Hera IS a mountain dungeon, though, but since it could be either 2nd or 3rd and unlike LttP there's no "official" order, I'm disqualifying it from the list. Zelda dungeon order lists are very serious business, after all
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Jan 2, 2021 02:22
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Everyone knows Turtle Rock is done last because it's tradition
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Jan 2, 2021 02:35
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With Dodongo's Cavern and the Fire Temple, you could make a case for counting Ocarina of Time twice in the "second dungeon is the fire one" list. On the subject of fire dungeons, the open-air one here is really reinforcing those Skyward Sword vibes. I wonder if that's deliberate.
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Jan 2, 2021 02:58
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I will add that Tower of Hera is not set in a mountain and instead is set in a tower on top of a mountain, so even if it could be done second it still doesn't exactly count. Kinda splitting hairs, but still. Also in Link's Awakening the Bottle Grotto is set in the base of Tal Tal Mountain so that would bring the total to 6 games (the second dungeons in the Oracle games and in Zelda 1 are set in forests, in Zelda 2 it is set in a swamp, and then LTTP it is in a desert, and none of them are fire themed). I have to say I do like the gag with the Skull Kids trying to make you think they are cursed spirits of the locals quite a bit. Just an actually kinda fun gag that more mocks the edge. EDIT: Is it just me or is the room with the Flame Dancer pretty much the same as the Centipede Demon boss room in Dark Souls 1? Black Mage Knight fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Jan 2, 2021 |
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Jan 2, 2021 04:01
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Black Mage Knight posted:EDIT: Is it just me or is the room with the Flame Dancer pretty much the same as the Centipede Demon boss room in Dark Souls 1?
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Jan 2, 2021 11:18
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I dont think its both sidesism as much as it is just edginess.
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Jan 2, 2021 15:35
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Quantum Toast posted:With Dodongo's Cavern and the Fire Temple, you could make a case for counting Ocarina of Time twice in the "second dungeon is the fire one" list. Technically you can do water as the second temple as an adult, meaning fire is not necessarily locked-in as the second temple. Navi just nudges you that direction, and it makes sense since you just did that order as a child. I give it a half point for being the intended order, but not actually requiring you to complete it before the water temple. e: Actually reading about it further, it looks like you can get the Master Sword, get the hookshot from Dampe, and then just... go beat Fire Temple?!  The bow is only required for the dungeon map
bawk fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Jan 2, 2021 |
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Jan 2, 2021 15:58
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Geemer posted:I'm just gonna not comment on the whole incredibly hamfisted both-sidesism and say that I kinda hope the skull kid just takes 800 rupees from you if you talk to it again later. I'm guessing that whether or not we pay him affects the ending. I'm still reeling from the idea of a Zelda game having multiple endings...
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Jan 2, 2021 16:31
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 I am being on fire again, and again. --------------- As mentioned yesterday, we'll be streaming tonight at 9PM EST on https://www.twitch.tv/FPzero. There's only one episode left before everyone's caught up for the stream, but everyone watching now should be clear to jump into the stream even having not seen Episode 25. Not too much of importance happens in it that you won't be able to pick up on just from tuning in at the start of the stream. If you still want to know what you're missing from the episode I'll be uploading tomorrow, here's a vague outline of what happens: We beat the Fire Temple, I waste everyone's time on accident, then we explored around Abello Town using Bombs a little bit and found some leads for tonight's stream. So yeah, come join me if you're awake and can watch, and we'll be tackling cleanup with after the Fire Temple, and other stuff!
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Jan 2, 2021 20:05
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Goku, Goku. Goku is on fire.
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Jan 2, 2021 23:37
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Now that this game has stopped jamming edgy bullshit in our faces and is just being a game, I'm enjoying it again. I really, really like how vertical this game is, I don't know what it reminds me of, but it feels so familiar
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Jan 3, 2021 07:29
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The Door Frame posted:Now that this game has stopped jamming edgy bullshit in our faces and is just being a game, I'm enjoying it again. I really, really like how vertical this game is, I don't know what it reminds me of, but it feels so familiar Breath of the Wild?
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Jan 3, 2021 08:56
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That fire tower you climb was cool; I just wish the hitboxes on the fire actually matched up with their appearance.
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Jan 3, 2021 09:28
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DimiPZC posted:That fire tower you climb was cool; I just wish the hitboxes on the fire actually matched up with their appearance.
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Jan 3, 2021 10:22
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So does it always take this much time for lava floor to start damaging you? I know this isn't the lava tile that zones you out but I thought it started hurting you much more quickly. Is it the Goron Tunic that slows it down?
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Jan 3, 2021 21:03
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C-Euro posted:So does it always take this much time for lava floor to start damaging you? I know this isn't the lava tile that zones you out but I thought it started hurting you much more quickly. Is it the Goron Tunic that slows it down? I think it's pretty much every couple of seconds without the tunic, yeah.
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Jan 3, 2021 21:28
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 Say, friend...have you heard of The Nimpize Adventure? Let me show you the texts I have.
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Jan 4, 2021 22:42
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Well, I guess three days to the end of the world isn't a pressing issue with time being broken in Abello.
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Jan 4, 2021 23:18
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Are there any boss fights in this game?
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Jan 5, 2021 00:54
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