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realistically a leftier Labour would be making much the same calls to extend the job retention scheme and tweak its coverage, albeit it would wrap it in a rhetoric hinting that such a programme should be kept forever and should be incrementally used to roll back capitalism even after the crisis. Something something Kurzarbeit (for the soft lefties), something something UBI (for the activists)... knowing fully well that LAB doesn't actually have the votes to make those promises a reality and is if anything alienating what Tory rebels it would need to really threaten the government it would generate a great deal of media hand-wringing and furore/attention drawn to the government's extensions of the programme, and you'd be pretty sure that most posters ITT would be quick to cite the various grudging extensions/amendments as an example of opposition success. And why not - it would really feel like a success and would energize the party base. Labour in this counterfactual would continue to shadow the polling though - a lot of that anti-lockdown animus comes from those Labour seats far from the cities, the same ones Labour twisted itself in Brexit knots over - it was very loud in September - and, worse, the party analysts know that that the road to Government runs through the 'squeezed middle' segment whose chief concerns are childcare and schooling. I could see Corbyn maybe deferring to the NEU more than a soft-left Starmer, but even a Corbynite front bench would be continuously rumbling dissent and whipping the party to keeping schools open, and it's just be Perpetual Misspeaking Headline Generator all the time, much the same as the actual Corbyn years.
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Jan 2, 2021 14:59
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Children were being infected and hospitalised from the start, and an apparently unique to children side-effect of infection has been known since at least May: fwiw, the SAGE position in the first lockdown was that evidence was 'unclear': https://assets.publishing.service.g...0420-sage26.pdf by the end of the first lockdown, this had shifted to: https://assets.publishing.service.g...ngs_in_Sept.pdf - really, read the whole thing
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Jan 2, 2021 15:10
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ronya posted:realistically a leftier Labour would be making much the same calls to extend the job retention scheme and tweak its coverage, albeit it would wrap it in a rhetoric hinting that such a programme should be kept forever and should be incrementally used to roll back capitalism even after the crisis. Something something Kurzarbeit (for the soft lefties), something something UBI (for the activists)... knowing fully well that LAB doesn't actually have the votes to make those promises a reality and is if anything alienating what Tory rebels it would need to really threaten the government I don’t see any evidence to back up anything you’ve said here to be honest. I don’t agree that Labour would be doing largely the same thing in different rhetorical wrapping paper at all - Corbyn and his front bench genuinely seemed to want lefty policies and right now is objectively the right time to be implementing them because all of the ‘just get a better job’ voices are effectively neutered. Your point about the anti-lockdown lot also doesn’t ring true - a lot of these people are right wing nuts but there is some truth to the idea that lockdowns have really hurt people economically and mentally. They undeniably have. Providing proper support during lockdowns is the answer to that though, so why you’re saying that would lose people compared to the current strategy I have no idea. As for Corbyn hypothetically whipping to keep schools open, this just seems like a totally out of the blue non-sequitur at odds with everything we know about Corbyn and his front bench.
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Jan 2, 2021 15:11
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Jakabite posted:I don’t see any evidence to back up anything you’ve said here to be honest ronya dot tee ex tee
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Jan 2, 2021 15:12
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Is there any reason to dislike Paul Brand? He seems like a solid source of good information without any obvious bias (obviously there’s no such thing as no bias at all but you know what I mean).
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Jan 2, 2021 15:24
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Jakabite posted:Is there any reason to dislike Paul Brand? He seems like a solid source of good information without any obvious bias (obviously there’s no such thing as no bias at all but you know what I mean). He's regularly in a room with Robert Peston but has not, to my knowledge, smacked Peston upside the head.
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Jan 2, 2021 15:33
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Jakabite posted:Is there any reason to dislike Paul Brand? He seems like a solid source of good information without any obvious bias (obviously there’s no such thing as no bias at all but you know what I mean). He was one of the hacks spreading that fake story about a Labour supporter punching somebody outside a hospital during the last election.
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Jan 2, 2021 15:36
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https://twitter.com/uk_domain_names/status/1345152869062864902?s=20# https://twitter.com/WilliamShatner/status/1316887010670305280?s=20
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Jan 2, 2021 15:40
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Jakabite posted:What infuriates me most about Labour is that they are only even bothering to talk about binary decisions that fit well within the scope of decision making of the Tories anyway. Not once have I heard the argument that we need massive, UBI like public support and spending. Not once have I heard any of them advocating for the sort of radical solutions implemented elsewhere in the world - massive spending to enable people to lock down safely and with minimal impact. Schools need to be closed? Make sure kids can get the materials they need to keep learning, whatever the cost. You can guarantee Corbyn’s Labour would have advocated for these sorts of radical socialist solutions which, even had they not happened, would have entered the public discourse as options. But no, Manager Keith is happy to gently caress about on the sidelines suggesting minor changes and being Sensible. RLB actually was doing this early on in march, it made her rise a lot in my estimation cause shes the only MP i saw doing it then she got sacked
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Jan 2, 2021 15:41
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Jose posted:https://twitter.com/uk_domain_names/status/1345152869062864902?s=20# loving lmao great job
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Jan 2, 2021 15:46
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we don't need them importing no forrin muck, simply buy from british farmers instead!  
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Jan 2, 2021 15:48
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sassassin posted:The people at the top never changed their opinion that "taking it on the chin in one go" was the best way to go, and every impression of a measure to control the spread of the virus has been PR-driven - a bit of concealer whenever the national black eye became visible. Every MP caught breaking lockdown rules, every last minute u-turn on dangerous policy, London being in a less-severe tier etc. it's been clear throughout that the plan was and is to ride things out until herd immunity saves the day by doing the bare minimum to stop people shouting at them. this is more or less how i think about it, i think the two remaining functions of the british government are PR media content and managed corruption so the current vaccine stuff is just that they need a big number to make media content around. reality doesn't affect them at all so its completely immaterial whether the 2nd dose is effective or not, its more important to go on telly today and say "ten million" or "more than enough vaccine to inoculate the whole population!" the day to day concerns are what are you gonna say on telly today and the longer term concerns are which cousin are you gonna give the big contract to i think the herd immunity thing is doublethink, they think they're doing lockdowns while clearly following the herd immunity plan down to using schools as viral incubators to spread the disease. the other issue is that A) they dont even know what herd immunity is, its just a PR phrase they said on telly that day until it got bad connotations B) they dont know about anything else, so they dont realise 65 million infections guarantees a lot of new strains but the ruling class are correct in thinking that its more dangerous for them to admit that our institutions seem almost universally incapable than it is to let a plague ravage the country and brew more new ones. if they did that they probably wouldnt be allowed back on telly
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Jan 2, 2021 15:50
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Jose posted:https://twitter.com/uk_domain_names/status/1345152869062864902?s=20# In a thousand tiny ways this will be Brexit now. Nothing big and splashy, just finding out that you can no longer get something you wanted or needed, and the cost of everything you can find has gone up. No one will make the connection.
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Jan 2, 2021 15:52
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ok can we fix this vat rule for all overseas businesses but still make an exception for The William Shatner Store because gently caress giving money to that guy
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Jan 2, 2021 15:53
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The horror of not being able to do business with e: ^^ yeah
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Jan 2, 2021 15:56
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My god that website. It looks like one of those intentionally vulnerable web sites used to practice ethical hacking on.
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Jan 2, 2021 16:02
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LordVorbis posted:In a thousand tiny ways this will be Brexit now. Nothing big and splashy, just finding out that you can no longer get something you wanted or needed, and the cost of everything you can find has gone up. No one will make the connection. its gonna own cause the roni will excuse the effects of brexit and vice versa we'll get the guardian saying coronavirus could have been handled if not for brexit and the express screaming about how the lockdown is trying to hold back brexit we can have a nice culture war over which disaster you hate most that completely turns its back on the objective reality in front of our eyes that the state is failing
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Jan 2, 2021 16:02
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Shame about Brand, he’s been good during the past few months. That VAT thing is genuinely incredible. I wonder how this’ll affect small businesses and sole traders who primarily sell through Amazon.
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Jan 2, 2021 16:04
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the single-dose prioritization is coming from an advisor or the civil service (I'm willing to believe that the JCVI is the source of it) - if it were coming from government ministers, the Telegraph, Daily Express, and Daily Mail would not be performing strafing runs on it right now there's been rumbling on it since back when the booster dose result was initially announced in August, so it's not like it came out of nowhere
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Jan 2, 2021 16:08
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CyberPingu posted:It looks like one of those intentionally vulnerable web sites used to practice ethical hacking on. e: ^^^ It's still a) not something that has been tested for in the studies, and b) not something that should be tested for in the highly vulnerable populations being prioritized. Getting everyone 80% immune is better than getting half of people 95% immune in general population during a pandemic, but ???% immune vs. 95% immune in specific target populations is not that. Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Jan 2, 2021 |
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Jan 2, 2021 16:09
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Communist Thoughts posted:this is more or less how i think about it, i think the two remaining functions of the british government are PR media content and managed corruption Herd immunity is the new austerity.
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Jan 2, 2021 16:13
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Angepain posted:ok can we fix this vat rule for all overseas businesses but still make an exception for The William Shatner Store because gently caress giving money to that guy Wait what happened with Shatner, I think I missed that 
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Jan 2, 2021 16:14
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sassassin posted:Herd immunity is the new austerity. yeah in that the tories went on telly saying "our plan is to kill loads of people for this reason" and now if you bring it up and all the people they killed you're being conspiratorial or childish
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Jan 2, 2021 16:18
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Also, what is the government's plan if overseas businesses don't bother collecting fees and just pocket the cash?
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Jan 2, 2021 16:21
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:what is the government's plan lol
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Jan 2, 2021 16:22
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Do you think the william shatner store still does a roaring trade? TJ Hooker mugs?
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Jan 2, 2021 16:22
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Convex posted:Wait what happened with Shatner, I think I missed that the main thing that got my attention recently is him having a protracted twitter meltdown doing a bunch of yelling-at-clouds about how offensive he found the word "cisgender", seems like a great guy
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Jan 2, 2021 16:28
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Convex posted:Wait what happened with Shatner, I think I missed that Well famously he was a bit of an arsehole to his costars, though I think they all got in better with him once they stopped having to work with him. Beyond that I don't think there is anything in particular, he's just a bit pompous.
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Jan 2, 2021 16:29
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:God drat it, I thought I'd finally found a use for the five chocolate oranges my parents foisted on me, and it doesn't use actual orange chocolate. Put them in the bin where they belong.
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Jan 2, 2021 16:30
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Guavanaut posted:Hacking The William Shatner Store would be ethical, yes. https://app.box.com/s/iddfb4ppwkmtjusir2tc/file/759357623956?sb=/details the ???% appears to be the point of contention - the committee apparently asked for (and got) the pfizer data, ran its own analysis, and came to the conclusion of 91% first-dose efficacy instead of 52.4% headline figure reported by pfizer there might be some nationalism/local-connections going into the mix - pfizer-biontech is a german collab, astrazeneca-oxford is a british one. the latter did do the studies all the way to 12 weeks whereas pfizer cut off earlier. the latter is also the study that found that vaccine efficacy increases with a longer delay between the first dose and the booster shot. the committee is arguing - I assume this is a scientific judgment that it is qualified to make - that it may be assumed as a prior that the three approved vaccines behave similarly in the ways that matter... still there's a whiff of "well you may have beat us to the approval punch but our study was more useful" to it
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Jan 2, 2021 16:35
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Miftan posted:Put them in the bin where they belong. you shouldn't put your parents in the bin, imho
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Jan 2, 2021 16:35
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Twitter seems convinced Keith is going to resign tomorrow, which seems like the most staggering optimism but y'know, it'd be nice to not absolutely hate Labour.
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Jan 2, 2021 16:35
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forkboy84 posted:Twitter seems convinced Keith is going to resign tomorrow, which seems like the most staggering optimism but y'know, it'd be nice to not absolutely hate Labour. It's probably one of those twitter jokes you're not in on like the video of the scary Airdrie guy (seriously don't search for it).
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Jan 2, 2021 16:38
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forkboy84 posted:Twitter seems convinced Keith is going to resign tomorrow, which seems like the most staggering optimism but y'know, it'd be nice to not absolutely hate Labour. Feels like the kinda thing that'd probably work if you kept at it
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Jan 2, 2021 16:39
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keep punching joe posted:It's probably one of those twitter jokes you're not in on like the video of the scary Airdrie guy (seriously don't search for it). I just assume everything on Twitter is dripping in 8 layers of irony but still, notable enough even if it's made up nonsense. After all, someone posted a Daily Mail Online link in here the other day baddum tish
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Jan 2, 2021 16:42
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kecske posted:we don't need them importing no forrin muck, simply buy from british farmers instead! The veg you think is grown in the UK and you're buying from the supermarket is very rarely from the UK because it's cheaper to buy from abroad. Reminds me of Christmasses several years ago when I used to have to visit a supplier over Christmas to do all the quality checks on-site before they packed and shipped them to us in the UK. Polish grown Brussels Sprouts, packed in The Netherlands and ferried to the UK were cheaper than UK grown Sprouts! What a year it would have been this year, glad I don't work there anymore. [edit] But your point is probably British Carrots grown in Spain, right? Naughty, naughty, very naughty. Dead Goon fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Jan 2, 2021 |
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Jan 2, 2021 17:01
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Impressive that a carrot can get british nationality more easily than a person.
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Jan 2, 2021 17:04
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are labour 20 points ahead yet
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Jan 2, 2021 17:05
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kecske posted:we don't need them importing no forrin muck, simply buy from british farmers instead! They may have been grown in Spain but they're ours now 
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Jan 2, 2021 17:05
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forkboy84 posted:Twitter seems convinced Keith is going to resign tomorrow, which seems like the most staggering optimism but y'know, it'd be nice to not absolutely hate Labour. I think Gibbo’s back with the deets.
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Jan 2, 2021 17:18
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