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Super Deuce posted:When I think about gender identity in Star Trek, I just see the way TNG handled their non-binary episode, and if Frakes got his way, how much more powerful it could have been... but even without that, even though the gender story was the inverse, it was just so much more clear and rooted in the “future”. Where Federation citizens are assumed tolerant and understanding. Instead of that scene evoking a feeling that NB and other gender issues are still being struggled over for 1000 years. It just made it feel gloomy, rather than an enlightened future. I felt the same about Sisko still being so mad over historical racism that it made him mad about the existence of a fun holoprogram that is set in a racist setting, even though there is no overt nor hidden racism in the program. For where he's from and his life experiences that's more a weird fetish than any kind of reasonable. Yeah, he had a couple hallucinations about living in a similar racist setting, but he also should have had 40 years of life where weird looking space aliens exist and the physical differences between humans are barely noticeable and unnoticed. Or is human on human racism secretly still around? The distant descendants of oppressed people still being mad is gloomy. The pretty reasonable response is that the story isn't written for people in 2375, it is written for people in 1999. In 2375 his weird ancient human racism fixation might be considered a character flaw, but in 1999 it is useful for telling stories that are meaningful now. Adira's story isn't written for people over 1000 years from now, it's written for folks in 2020. And folks now might need things spelled out for them a bit. Even so, there was very little "struggle". Being a teenager is hard, and it seems that day with Stamets is the first time she told anyone she was NB, certainly the first time she told anyone on Discovery. At which point everyone, absolutely everyone, was down with calling them by their preferred pronouns without making a big deal about it. Which is what should happen now. It is teaching people in 2020 how to deal with it when someone tells you they are non-binary. You could read it as the level of awkwardness in that scene isn't much worse than if your name is Allison and someone has been calling you Alice for weeks, and you didn't correct them the first time and now it's going to be embarrassing for everyone when you correct them and tell them to call you Allison instead of Alice. It is in no way a big deal for anyone, it's just an awkward moment. They didn't mention that they were non-binary the first day, because stuff was going on, and now that everyone has been misgendering them for weeks it is a little embarrassing to fix. Except Stamets dewy eyed acceptance makes it seem like a bigger deal than that.
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Jan 4, 2021 01:58
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Facebook Aunt posted:You could read it as the level of awkwardness in that scene isn't much worse than if your name is Allison and someone has been calling you Alice for weeks, and you didn't correct them the first time and now it's going to be embarrassing for everyone when you correct them and tell them to call you Allison instead of Alice. It is in no way a big deal for anyone, it's just an awkward moment. They didn't mention that they were non-binary the first day, because stuff was going on, and now that everyone has been misgendering them for weeks it is a little embarrassing to fix. Except Stamets dewy eyed acceptance makes it seem like a bigger deal than that. This is really good and I am absolutely gonna steal this story for gender discourse with people who are having a hard time getting it.
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Jan 4, 2021 02:04
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I really wish they had just approached that entire thing in a different way. It was just awkwardly written.
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Jan 4, 2021 02:08
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I fell waaaay behind on Disco, but I caught up this weekend by binging the last six episodes. I'm skipping like three thousand posts so I have no idea what the thread zeitgeist is, but here are my extremely condensed hot takes on the show since November:
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Jan 4, 2021 02:28
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What ever happened to the guy who lived at the deserted starbase? Did we just forget about him?
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Jan 4, 2021 02:36
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Martytoof posted:What ever happened to the guy who lived at the deserted starbase? he is actually the president it was a test and michael passed she will be the next president
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Jan 4, 2021 02:38
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I’m still kind of blown away by how poorly thought out having a 1000 year old ship is. People say it’s an antique quite frequently but like the writers don’t seem to get how out of date this ship would be in this setting. Constitution class ships were crazy out of date in the TNG era. They were so out of date they were essentially no danger to any modern ship. The Discovery should be a single blast away from being totally obliterated in any engagement. I know they upgraded their consoles with the programmable matter and gave them new COM badges. But they have not covered any other structural improvements to the discovery as of yet for me six episodes in. I really cannot fathom why the Starfleet is sending them on missions when they have not replicated their drive technology yet. That drive technology is on its own enough to allow them to reconstitute the Federation. They should absolutely not be sending this thousand year old relic out on missions when it has the only prototype engine that can bring the Federation back.
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Jan 4, 2021 03:17
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Nitrousoxide posted:I’m still kind of blown away by how poorly thought out having a 1000 year old ship is. They said they did a complete retrofit during a 3 week span. The programmable matter consoles, comm badges and detached nacelles are the easiest way to show that. I do agree that outside of shuttling desperately needed supplies to places, they should be spending 100% of their time trying to replicate the drive. That wouldn't be very interesting though.
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Jan 4, 2021 03:26
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Nitrousoxide posted:I know they upgraded their consoles with the programmable matter and gave them new COM badges. But they have not covered any other structural improvements to the discovery as of yet for me six episodes in. I thought they did? It looked like the nacells aren't attached anymore. Yeah.  https://comicbook.com/startrek/news/star-trek-discovery-a-redesign/ It's just that the weird pacing makes it seem like there wasn't time for a real refit. But maybe programable matter makes that something that can be done in an afternoon. The ship is held together by forcefields now.
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Jan 4, 2021 03:27
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Powered Descent posted:I fell waaaay behind on Disco, but I caught up this weekend by binging the last six episodes. That the burn is due to a mood swing. Wut. happyhippy fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Jan 4, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 03:30
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:I do agree that outside of shuttling desperately needed supplies to places, they should be spending 100% of their time trying to replicate the drive. That wouldn't be very interesting though. I totally agree it wouldn’t be an exciting show. But the writers of the ones who made the choice to have this crisis of warp speed technology in this time. And introduced the discovery with a magical drive that can solve all of the problems. They could’ve chosen any other crisis that caused the Federation to fall apart and which discovery does not have a unique technology to solve. But they chose warp drive. It’s a dumb choice that just indicates the lack of thought being put into the setting.
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Jan 4, 2021 03:32
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Powered Descent posted:
-Federation is down to like 30ish members -Earth left and went isolationist -Trill left and the symbionts almost died out thanks to The Burn -Vulcans integrated the Romulans into their society (although this is still ongoing) and also left the Federation -Biggest threat to the Federation is basically a bunch of space traders -Kaminar joined the UFP at some point in the past and is doing OK But not a word about the Klingons, Cardassians, Ferengi, etc. We haven't even seen a background Klingon (to my knowledge). Speaking of which, I'm wondering what major worlds are still in the UFP anymore. We know founding members Earth, Vulcan, and Andoria are all out.
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Jan 4, 2021 03:32
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Facebook Aunt posted:I felt the same about Sisko still being so mad over historical racism that it made him mad about the existence of a fun holoprogram that is set in a racist setting, even though there is no overt nor hidden racism in the program.... I had a similar reaction with Sisko and his holodeck episodes on my first watch of Deep Space Nine, because in my mind I felt that in the Star Trek setting, someones race would be so far removed from any equation it'd be as ordinary as the differences with black or brown hair. But it really is a timely reminder how far we've come, and even as recently as the late 90s representation wasn't anywhere near where it was today - and having the lead of a mainstream star trek show be a black guy was actually a huge deal. Giving that actor a bit of a soapbox to show that, and in turn actually integrate some of the culture and history within the show was a great for a 1990s audience. I can't even begin to imagine what it was like with Uhura / Sulu / Checkhov characters for 1960's audience. So anytime someone accuses Discovery of being 'woke' i wonder what they think the Star trek they've watched in the past has always been like? Having a bi-gender character just be yet another crew member is totally on point.
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Jan 4, 2021 03:43
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I've been asking myself for weeks, why didnt they hand wave it as working on replicating the drive from scans and data from Discovery while utilizing the ship to provide relief across the galaxy at the same time. Also, someone brought up how the mycelial network was being destroyed before, I'm pretty sure it was because the Terran flagship was just sucking the life out of it to sustain its big shiny reactor core. e; Again a missed opportunity to contrast the Emerald Chain and The Federation, having one work replicating the spore drive non invasively and how we just had EC scientist guy say how they won't juice Stamets for the interface DNA but implied that they might have to. Nonzero chance on the latter is concerning. MariusLecter fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Jan 4, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 03:57
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Nitrousoxide posted:I’m still kind of blown away by how poorly thought out having a 1000 year old ship is. Discovery WAS a single blast away from being obliterated, a quantum torpedo hit took out it's defenses entirely, in an real fight it would have been destroyed in about five seconds flat. But the Discovery-A isn't that 1000 year old ship anymore, it's basically a 32nd certury ship that just looks (mostly) like the original. The first time they talked about it they mentioned that internally it looks the same for the sake of the crew, and while we all know that's so they can keep using their existing sets the point is it's similarity to what it originally was is just superficial at this point. It's easy to miss but the refit is a huge change to the ship, the secondary hull is almost entirely new, the saucer section is the only part mostly the same as it was before. There's a lot more going on than detached nacelles and being recoloured from copper/bronze to silver.
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Jan 4, 2021 04:00
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FlamingLiberal posted:Oh I agree, it's been driving me nuts the whole time. We only know a handful of things as of this point. Presumably the Burn has caused all empires to contract to their core worlds. The galaxy is huge and travel is difficult. So even if the Klingon Empire is still around, their sphere of influence is smaller and may not boarder the Federation sphere of influence any more. We don't know what the boarders looked like right before the burn, but here's how they looked . . . sometime.  Sol is the center of the map. The Tellerite, Andorian and Vulcan sectors are out. Chances are pretty good that anything on the other side of those sectors is effectively isolated, even if it is technically still part of the Federation. Though, actually, do we even know where there Federation is centered now? LOL. Whatever, most people aren't travelling much, so you'd expect most species to be rare outside their own territory. There there are a probably a lot of stray colony worlds along the old boarders that are effectively independent now. But they may not be able to travel at all. Most people will stay on the planet where they were born. If anything I'd expect more mongrels. There had to be a bunch of strays who were effectively trapped as extreme minorities on mixed colonies, starbases, and ships. What does someone who is 12.5% Klingon, 12.5% Denublian, 25% Romulan, and 50% human look like? Does that happen, or do hybrids become infertile at some point?
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Jan 4, 2021 04:12
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See, I think that was a missed opportunity. Discovery being obsolete, vulnerable and seemingly outmatched if not for her incredible teleportation superpower is a pretty cool concept. It's like how the Battlestar Galactica survived the initial attacks, not because it was the best ship in the fleet but because everything was analog and outdated.
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Jan 4, 2021 04:15
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I feel like based on DS9 it would make more sense on that map if the Klingons and Cardassians had some kind of shared border, because otherwise you are talking about Klingon ships crossing Federation space after the Khitomer Accords are nullified which seems unlikely.
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Jan 4, 2021 04:39
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Yeah, a DEEP SPACE station is loving closer to Earth than 60% of the rest of the federation. It's closer than the Klingon homeworld It's loving closer than Betazed.
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Jan 4, 2021 04:49
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FlamingLiberal posted:I feel like based on DS9 it would make more sense on that map if the Klingons and Cardassians had some kind of shared border, because otherwise you are talking about Klingon ships crossing Federation space after the Khitomer Accords are nullified which seems unlikely. It appears that every map is garbage because everyone shares a border when it's convenient for the plot. Some fans have gotten their nerd on though and calculated that at warp 9.9 it'd take a year to cross the z axis in the milky way, so there's plenty of "height" in the galaxy for everyone's borders to twist around each other.
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Jan 4, 2021 04:49
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Why was Earth in sector 001 in the Borg's mapping system? Because it sounded important for the episode.
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Jan 4, 2021 04:52
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Isometric Bacon posted:See, I think that was a missed opportunity. Discovery being obsolete, vulnerable and seemingly outmatched if not for her incredible teleportation superpower is a pretty cool concept. Nah, Star Trek tech's wrong for that; Battlestar Galactica worked because it's more grounded and all the weapons are kinetic. Galactica's old as gently caress, but armor is armor, and Galactica is a fat flying fortress that was built to kick the poo poo out of multiple Cylon Basestars at once and shrug off nukes. And even then going up against Pegasus head-to-head would've been dicey just because it's a flat upgrade over Galactica in every way. Discovery's defenses are all tied into its technology level, and a newer phaser built on modern principles is just going to just about ignore a shield built on old principles running off far less power. It's like trying to pit a 1940's Turing machine against a smartphone.
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Jan 4, 2021 04:54
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Nitrousoxide posted:Why was Earth in sector 001 in the Borg's mapping system? Maybe they were using star maps they stole from Picard's head or from one of the Federation ships they had assimilated?
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Jan 4, 2021 04:57
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Nitrousoxide posted:Why was Earth in sector 001 in the Borg's mapping system? If you were a Hive Mind spread out over hundreds of thousands of light years, where would the origin go for any map you do? Maybe its better to set the origin at your target so everything attacking it knows the reference frame and not having to calculate vectors and poo poo from a point 900000 light years away in the opposite direction.
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Jan 4, 2021 05:06
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Or it was just the UT translating to federation units
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Jan 4, 2021 05:19
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Facebook Aunt posted:Presumably the Burn has caused all empires to contract to their core worlds. The galaxy is huge and travel is difficult. So even if the Klingon Empire is still around, their sphere of influence is smaller and may not boarder the Federation sphere of influence any more. There's never really been a canonical map of the Federation or hints at what it looks like, really. Given the way it expands by letting anyone who wants to join up for major advantages and doesn't steamroll other planets that don't want to, I'd imagine its borders look very different to others, it makes sense that it was probably more like this  And now there are lots of fragments of federation spread across ridiculous amounts of space. happyhippy posted:Yeah, a DEEP SPACE station is loving closer to Earth than 60% of the rest of the federation. Deep Space means outside of nominal Federation Territory, in this case in Bajoran territory. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Jan 4, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 05:30
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Also deep space can still reasonably be between known things and even in your own territory, just really far from your supply lines or other installations
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Jan 4, 2021 05:46
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it could just be really deep, as in, vertical below the majority of stuff. It’s weird that Stamets considers Adira his kid. They’ve been together like 6 weeks and have had maybe five scenes together. It’s insane to pretend he’s the parent here. Doubly so for Culber. Have they even had a conversation? I know they want the little LGBTQIA+ family together but the pace is just silly. It’s so forced and I don’t mean that in a “I hate diversity” way, I mean it in that you can see the prybar marks around these characters.
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Jan 4, 2021 05:51
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Disco has been doing a LOT of off screen character (and tech) development Just start with a log entry, sheesh, it would actually go a long way and even feel more trekky
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Jan 4, 2021 05:56
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Or maybe just show it. Characters having fun together is better to watch than Michael calling her mom in the middle of her trying to Die Hard the Discovery.
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Jan 4, 2021 05:57
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well why not posted:it could just be really deep, as in, vertical below the majority of stuff. Agreed. I get what they're trying for, but a very brief cutaway scene per episode amidst the A-Plot of Michael saving the day does not a family make.
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Jan 4, 2021 05:57
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They’re coworkers and they never asked to be adopted. He is just like yeah that’s my kid. It’s insane. Adira just rolls with it but doesn’t really treat him differently. It’s serial killer poo poo. “You’re my child now”.
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Jan 4, 2021 06:04
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UFP ca 2799, colorized
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Jan 4, 2021 06:10
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well why not posted:They’re coworkers and they never asked to be adopted. He is just like yeah that’s my kid. It’s insane. Adira just rolls with it but doesn’t really treat him differently. It’s serial killer poo poo. “You’re my child now”. It's like the PG version of Tumblr fanbase assumptions about subtext. Only instead of "they get alone well, that means they're dating/loving", it's "He's being a mentor figure to them, that means he's adopted them"
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Jan 4, 2021 06:13
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The Bloop posted:Disco has been doing a LOT of off screen character (and tech) development
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Jan 4, 2021 06:13
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The logs were the easiest way to say "This is what is happening this episode" in a few seconds without having to do a bunch of exposition.
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Jan 4, 2021 06:24
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Martytoof posted:What ever happened to the guy who lived at the deserted starbase? I hope that in the climax of the season finale, they pull an Airplane! and, in an action-packed sequence, they smash cut back to him sitting at his desk and checking the time, asking aloud, "Hmm. I wonder what Michael is up to?" Then they cut back to the action.
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Jan 4, 2021 06:27
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Got caught up. -Make it the Osyrra show. By far most interesting character. -can’t stand Die Hard Michael. Gotta go for the leg choke out on a human instead of the neck pinch to up the drama with a leg stab. Can’t shoot pirate in hallway, kill them with decompression and almost die yourself. -throw the senior staff in a room unrestrained and stand next to them, whoops they escaped. Ok you don’t want to kill them, use those handcuffs that later popped up on Book. Out of space in the brig? Put them on your ship. -gotta love zero attempt by crew to resist initial takeover. The Ferengi pirate seizing D was not a proud moment but at least Worf tried to fight back. -why when space repair robots have existed for a millennia does the EC cling to slavery to sort scrap metal?
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Jan 4, 2021 07:09
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Can’t shoot pirate in hallway, kill them with decompression and almost die yourself. I am sorry our spaceship is a no-kill shelter
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Jan 4, 2021 07:32
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Hyrax Attack! posted:-why when space repair robots have existed for a millennia does the EC cling to slavery to sort scrap metal? Control? Capitalism? They have a version of capitalism with no provision for declaring bankruptcy. If you owe a debt you can't pay, then your creditor is entitled to take custody of you and force you to work it off. (I think this has been a thing at times in human history?) And since they are deciding how much to charge you for room and board, and how much your labour is worth, once you are a debt slave you probably aren't ever getting out. I think we only see debt slavery and maybe crime slavery? In which case the slavery isn't merely about getting work done cheap, it's a Social Program. Sure robots might be able to do a better job for less money, but then what would we do with all the destitute people and all the criminals? Which is probably why the green lady wasn't worried about outlawing slavery. All the debt slaves could be freed, and then since they still can't pay their debts they become totally legal Indentured Servants. They no longer have slave markets, they have debt trading markets. And if the Federation had specifically endorsed capitalism they'd be stuck. Debtors unable to pay their debts are inevitable.
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Jan 4, 2021 07:38
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