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yeah my understanding of the timeline was that the Jihad terminology was part of the original pitch but they had so many opportunities to change it to something else and chose not to. And hell even Demona Aziz ten years earlier felt vaguely islamophobic. Pussy Cartel posted:I spent a month trying to get through Icons of War before finally giving up today. Just the most boring and pointless slog of a read. I'm kinda stunned at how badly you can ruin the pitch of "clanner heist movie"
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Jan 4, 2021 14:03
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Carbolic posted:Sorry but this is backwards. You're closer to primary sources than I am, so I definitely believe this.
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Jan 4, 2021 14:13
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Hm. I'm glad the story is moving forward again but don't know if I find all the decisions interesting. I might end up as one of Those Weirdos who really likes the Jihad/Republic era more than the stuff around it. There are at least three of us.
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Jan 4, 2021 15:53
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So I got a bunch of minis to paint, what paint do you all recommend? Looking at a couple different options, don't want to break the bank. My POD copy of HoTW is coming this week, I'll spoiler a review when I finish it.
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Jan 4, 2021 16:38
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:So I got a bunch of minis to paint, what paint do you all recommend? Looking at a couple different options, don't want to break the bank. Honestly Citadel Contrast are fantastic for the new mechs. Lots of nooks and crannies to run into. Watch some Youtube to get a feel for them.
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Jan 4, 2021 16:56
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The Hour of the Wolf was preceded only by the Two Centuries of the Wolf
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Jan 4, 2021 17:00
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I am not at all familiar with characters in the Battletech universe. But I am curious about Hanse Davion and Melissa Steiner, as I just saw a slap fight over these two on a Facebook Battletech group and the whole thing is one big 
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Jan 4, 2021 17:07
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The book is a major slog with zero tension. You know the Republic will attempt something and then the brilliant Wolves will counter it. The only actual advancement of the plot comes at the end. Some of it is pretty interesting (like the Dragoons) but yeah, it's a bad book. Naturally the official BT forums are full of people gushing at how epic it is.
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Jan 4, 2021 17:09
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Beerdeer posted:Honestly Citadel Contrast are fantastic for the new mechs. Lots of nooks and crannies to run into. Watch some Youtube to get a feel for them. If you're going to invest in Citadel Contrast paint, it's a good idea to transfer it out of their (lovely) pots and into dropper bottles. You can get 20oz dropper bottles for pretty cheap on Amazon, and they'll help keep the paints from drying out. Citadel's pots are notoriously designed to waste paint and make you buy more, but their contrast line is very good over a white primer.
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Jan 4, 2021 17:47
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I said come in! posted:I am not at all familiar with characters in the Battletech universe. But I am curious about Hanse Davion and Melissa Steiner, as I just saw a slap fight over these two on a Facebook Battletech group and the whole thing is one big From what I have gathered, Hanse Davion is the Cleverest Character Ever and Melissa Steiner is a damsel in distress that everyone loves. They have a very medieval-aristocrat-style political marriage to cement an alliance, which fits with the neofeudal theme of Battletech but is still pretty grody, given he's like 30 years older than she is. I think they also come to love each other? They're designated protagonists so I think so.
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Jan 4, 2021 17:58
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Snake Dance posted:The book is a major slog with zero tension. You know the Republic will attempt something and then the brilliant Wolves will counter it. The only actual advancement of the plot comes at the end. Some of it is pretty interesting (like the Dragoons) but yeah, it's a bad book. Naturally the official BT forums are full of people gushing at how epic it is. Truth be told it sounds to me like old-school Battletech fiction during Stackpole's writing of Hanse, Phelan, etc. Which is unfortunate give that between 2002-2013 we had a really excellent line more or less of fiction going. And is even stranger given that BLP was able to write Surrender Your Dreams and several other Dark Age novels that did not have that problem at all. I guess this is what happens when the story is kind of already pre-ordained and the authors are rushing to fill in novels to fill the gap between the last sourcebook and this one. Truth be told The Wolves not falling for any Republic traps or tactics makes sense though because in Children of Kerensky Paul Moon of the Fidelus/Smoke Jaguars completely sold the Republic out in exchange for Alaric promising to let the Smoke Jaguars be reborn. Paul got all the details of Terran defenses out of that one Republic Knight while she was in jail under Damien Redburn, and then gave all the secrets to Alaric. gently caress Paul Moon. PoptartsNinja posted:If you're going to invest in Citadel Contrast paint, it's a good idea to transfer it out of their (lovely) pots and into dropper bottles. You can get 20oz dropper bottles for pretty cheap on Amazon, and they'll help keep the paints from drying out. Sounds like Army Painter is the way to go if there's that much work involved with Citadel paints. This is supposed to be a fun hobby, not laborious. I think I'll stay away from washes/highlights until I get the hang of it. Crazy Joe Wilson fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Jan 4, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 18:26
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Anyways have a bad photo WIP on my Delta Galaxy Jags.
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Jan 4, 2021 18:32
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DrPop posted:The Hour of the Wolf was preceded only by the Two Centuries of the Wolf Don't forget that it's immediately followed by Another Century of the Wolf
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Jan 4, 2021 18:52
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Melissa Steiner is public damsel but was also an infantry officer and entirely capable of taking care of herself. Hanse was 27 years older, which is definitely creepy regardless.
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Jan 4, 2021 18:56
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The warrior trilogy makes more sense once you find out that it's actually an in-universe propaganda film. Like how the villains in the cartoon are incredibly stupid and totally bonkers in a way no human could be, because it too was a government propaganda project.
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Jan 4, 2021 19:02
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Sounds like Army Painter is the way to go if there's that much work involved with Citadel paints. This is supposed to be a fun hobby, not laborious. I think I'll stay away from washes/highlights until I get the hang of it. Highlights can be a bit tough and going at your own pace is important, but I really encourage you to give washes a try. They're really important for adding depth to minis.
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Jan 4, 2021 19:11
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Sounds like Army Painter is the way to go if there's that much work involved with Citadel paints. This is supposed to be a fun hobby, not laborious. I think I'll stay away from washes/highlights until I get the hang of it. If you're looking for decent results without labor go with contrast. It's paint and wash all in one step. Moving it out of the original pots isn't a requirement, the GW stuff may be worse than others but they won't dry overnight. Edit: Even the somewhat mediocre minis I posted up page took multiple layers of non-contrast paint and washes. If you want easy, contrast is by far your best bet. Spray an undercoat, put the contrast on, then paint the small details. It'll look leagues better than single colors without washes. Snake Dance fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Jan 4, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 19:11
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Sounds like Army Painter is the way to go if there's that much work involved with Citadel paints. This is supposed to be a fun hobby, not laborious. I think I'll stay away from washes/highlights until I get the hang of it. Please use washes, they're great. They really help emphasize a mini's lines and can help hide small mistakes, especially if you're using white primer. Army Painter's Strong Tone is fantastic (and you can buy it in a bucket). Citadel's colored washes are very specialized but Nuln Oil and Agrax Earthshade are really useful. Army Painter comes in dropper bottles already, but their coverage can be somewhat variable. Some colors are good, some are bad. They make some of the best washes on the market. Reaper paints I have minimal experience with but from the few samples they gave out over Halloween/Christmas seem pretty ok. Comparable to Army Painter at least. Vallejo makes the best metallics on the market (the Model Air line) but can be harder to find. They usually come in dropper bottles. A lot of their lighter colors (yellows and reds) will need multiple layers to give good coverage. Citadel's got really consistent coverage but they're expensive and their pots are awful (by design, unfortunately). Fortunately it's really easy to transfer Citadel paints to dropper bottles. The Contrast line is a special type of paint that acts a bit like its own wash Tamaya color paints are ok, they've got a good range of colors but I've found sometimes other paints or varnishes will 'reactivate' them even days after they should be totally dry. I had a star of Smoke Jaguars painted with them, complete with spots, and all the spots ran like ink when I varnished them (but the base layer, a different color of gray, remained intact  )Craft paints (FolkArt, Apple Barrel, Etc) are generally not good for miniatures but they're fine for terrain. The notable exception being FolkArt's color shift paints, which shouldn't be used as a base-coat but can be painted over a base coat to give interesting effects. I've had a lot of fun painting Jade Falcons with color shift green-to-gold and teal-to-purple. Avoid testors and other enamel "model airplane" paints like the plague. They're generally not great for beginners because they have to be cleaned and thinned with solvents. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jan 4, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 19:18
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  Here are my IS Davion mechs. Citadel Grey Seer undercoat with Black Templar contrast. Add details, stir, and serve.
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Jan 4, 2021 19:37
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That Awesome is a perfect example of what Contrast can do for you compared to just applying a coat of black.
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Jan 4, 2021 19:38
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I appreciate the advice everyone, I think I may have to try painting with a buddy of mine who's been doing it for a long while, so I don't screw up on the first try. Lot of stuff to keep in mind.
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Jan 5, 2021 00:56
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Watching people do stuff is how I learn painting stuff most effectively. This video that Snake Dance shared with me the other day is a really solid tutorial for using contrast to paint white (ComStar) mechs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW1twroJV18
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Jan 5, 2021 02:20
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Everything on the channel's pretty good. They clearly know what they're doing, all those GenCon displays don't lie.
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Jan 5, 2021 03:03
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So while I wait for my box set to come in Thursday, I played 2 games with a buddy of mine on tabletop sim so we could try to learn the rules. Gotta say, wasn't too bad after learning the roll modifiers and we started moving pretty quickly. Definitely had a lot of fun so I can't wait to be able to move these figures in person.
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Jan 5, 2021 04:10
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If you can, I'd advise printing off one copy of the quick-reference tables for everyone who's playing. The movement, ToHit, critical hit, and missile tables get used more than anything else so it's nice if everyone has them handy without needing to crack open a book. It also means you can check each others work until movement mods start being second nature. It can also be handy to keep spare dice around. When you move a 'Mech and determine its move mod, put a dice in front of (or behind) it and turn the dice to its movement mod. It'll not only help you remember how much you actually moved, but it lets everyone on the table see at a glance that Spider's at a whopping +5 but the Awesome's trundling around at a +1. You can also use the dice to help you remember where your firing arcs are after a torso twist.
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Jan 5, 2021 05:07
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Just my humble opinion? Get rid of the shoulder missile pod on the Griffin, put them in the chest. All that group of 55 tonners have a shoulder thing, let's change it up a bit. I'll send FASA a bill for my input.
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Jan 6, 2021 07:05
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Even when FASA existed they didn't pay anyone. You fool. You absolute cretin.
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Jan 6, 2021 09:12
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Alright, so got my copy of Hour of the Wolf, read the first 160 pages, then skipped to the last 60 to see what the end result was. Pretty mixed feelings, here's a sum; Alaric Ward invited Malvina Hazen to Terra, and the two of them curbstomp the Republic of the Sphere into the ground. That's the first 200 pages of the book. The next 50-80 pages are Alaric and Malvina having an "IlClan Trial" to see who gets to be called IlClan. Clan Wolf wins. Alaric tells all the Clans this. Sea Fox and Snow Raven are 'Ok, Ghost Bears are suspicious, Hell's Horses is MAD AS gently caress they did not get to participate. Clan Jade Falcon is whittled down to 100 warriors. Clan Smoke Jaguar is reborn as a Provisional Clan. At the end of the novel, right before his Coronation Ceremony as First Lord, Alaric meets with Devlin Stone one last time, who is in the hospital dying. Stone laughs in his face and claims credit for Alaric's achievements (Saying he gave Alaric the code to get thru Fortress Republic, he sent his best soldiers to whittle down CJF before the Trial, etc. etc.). Stone also reveals it Wobbie Sleeper Agents who caused the Blackout, that he was a failed Wobbie agent who rebelled against them. He also tells Alaric basically he is now in the same situation that Stone was; stuck on Terra with a depleted military surrounded by hostile states and probably doomed to failure. He basically says "good luck lol" before Alaric's 2nd Chance Vickers smothers him with a pillow in his hospital bed. Literally. So let's go over what I thought was good vs. bad. Bad first: Way too many Clan Wolf characters. I think there was... 6 or 7 Wolf POVs, including several just created for this novel, versus 2 CJF, 3 ROTS, and 1 for every other faction in the universe. Some of the POVs just felt like wasted space that I would have rather read the battles from the ROTS perspective. Tyrina Drummond, a Republic Paladin who's been 'sorta hyped' for the last three battles goes out in true Nova Cat style. By that I mean she gets zero dialog or even a single POV and gets murdered by brand new Clan Wolf characters who drive a tank that had no right to survive as long as it did versus an Assault mech. The tank runs over her cockpit when she crashes into the ground. Go go Nova Cats. The Wolves getting victory. Just seemed like they were winning too quickly and easily. Every engagement they fought in turned into a rout against the ROTS, the ROTS always suffered heavier casualties. While some of that can be explained away with the fact that Alaric got all of their defense plans from Custos Paul Moon in the previous book (Once again, gently caress Paul Moon), it just killed a lot of tension. The ROTS' biggest victory against them was 4 regiments against a single Solhama Cluster, which immediately gets wrecked by a Clan Wolf counter-attack. Clan characters being huge rear end hypocrites as usual. Alaric and Malvina invade Terra, commit war crimes, and then get super pissy when the Republic does a head-hunting operation that nearly succeeds in decapitating both Clans. When they meet with Stone they're holier-than-though "you're so dishonorable". At least Stone gets a zinger on Malvina saying "Yeah but that's nothing compared to dropping a warship on my own capital you dumb bitch" that was worth a lol Malvina's characterization. Something just has felt off about her since the Battletech novels. In the old Dark Age novels her craziness seemed genuinely dangerous, and she was highly competent. In the new ones though she seems to do atrocities and brute force tactics, and keeps getting out-thought or out-argued by subordinates. Steiner logic continues to not make sense. They see an opportunity to reclaim worlds lost to the Jade Falcons... and decide not to... because it will make the Falcons mad. Even though in a previous novel they totally attacked a Jade Falcon planet with 2 regiments. They are executing Operation "Black Ice" where they are arming partisans and left-behind military on occupied worlds who will free the planets for them, but... it's still not consistent. Tara Campbell becomes a bondwoman to Clan Wolf, and then Alaric sends her to Clan Jade Falcon as their new Sakhan. WHAT. THE. gently caress. Lastly, no Noritomo Helmer. Just... why? Noritomo is about twice as interesting as Stephanie Chistu as an "honorable Jade Falcon" Even Shattered Fortress name-dropped him on the Battle of Skye and getting claimed by Clan Wolf as a Bondsman. He was the original Traditional Jade Falcon set up to oppose Malvina, feels like a wasted opportunity. Okay. Now the Good. Devlin Stone's characterization. It's interesting to see a character who's arrogant, with a huge ego, they gets steadily punctured until he's lost everything. I got some serious Hitler vibes from him hunkered down in a Republic bunker as his capital city collapsed all around him. You really see him completely destroyed as a character in his 2nd-to-last appearance; wheelchair bound, colosotomy bag/breathing tubes, etc., etc. Still, he shakes Alaric the gently caress up in the last scene which was nice to see, but I still would've rather seen him beat Alaric to a bloody pulp. Oh well. Malvina gets killed by her slave Cynthy. So that happened. Alaric in the last couple scenes is a total dick to A)The Hell's Horses, and B) The Dragoons. He laughs in the HH's faces about their anger over not being invited ("Since when do the Clans need invitations to battles?"), and basically humiliates them. He also reveals to the Dragoons he only invited them to Terra to take revenge for them betraying the Clans in the original invasion; he let them completely destroy themselves against the Jade Falcons (80% losses), gave them 30 pieces of silver, saying "We don't want traitors in our ranks, here's your pay". Basically, the Dragoons may never be able to recover as a unit, which Alaric thinks is great. I found it interesting because it reveals Alaric is making some serious mistakes. He is down to 40% of his Clan's strength, he really shouldn't be pissing off potential allies for the IlClanate, yet he can't seem to resist. The book prose and battle scenes are mostly good, typical Battletech writing fare. This is a step up from what a lot of the other new novels have been. I didn't feel like I had to brush through a lot of sections or imagine how they could've been written better, I could actually just read and enjoy. It was a tough read for me as a Republic fan. I think I will paint my IS mechs up in ROTS colors in memory of them. Overall, an okay book. Crazy Joe Wilson fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Jan 6, 2021 |
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Jan 6, 2021 14:17
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:
Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Malvina gets killed by her slave Cynthy. So that happened.
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Jan 6, 2021 18:34
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PoptartsNinja posted:You can only write a character as clever and interesting as you yourself are, and Pardoe is neither of those things. Everything Stackpole takes heat for, Pardoe typically does far more egregiously. That's the thing though, he has written really good novels. Target of Opportunity and Surrender Your Dreams are two of my favorite, and they're top tier for the Dark Age fiction line. Even Exodus Road back in the old line was pretty good. So what changed in 10-15 years I'm not sure of.
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Jan 6, 2021 18:50
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Pardoe has written far more bad novels than he has good. He just does not write interesting antagonists, they're at best cardboard cutouts with one single character trait. He writes more interesting protagonists than Stackpole, but I tried and I just couldn't actually name a single one of his antagonists. And I'm the weirdo who can tell you that the antagonists of Hearts of Chaos were Tai-sa Jeffrey Kusunoski, his aide who looked like a Japanese Mitt Romney, and a Davion traitor named Howard Blaylock. Highlander Gambit - Chastity Mulvaney doesn't count because she's secretly a protagonist and the main character's love interest. Antagonist is a Davion colonel whose only trait is anti-Capellan racism and who (for some reason  ) does not want Northwind to secede from the Federated Commonwealth.Star Lord - I think one of the PCs was his character (I have a feeling it was Hermann Bovos, but it might have been Captain Trane of Sir Thomas Marik's Knights of the Inner Sphere). Impetus of War - The primary antagonist was a very loud and stupid Smoke Jaguar Galaxy Commander whose only definable trait was his mindless aggression. Exodus Road - The primary antagonist was a very loud and stupid Smoke Jaguar (Galaxy?) Commander whose only definable traits were his mindless aggression and his (supposedly ir)rational hatred of Trent. Roar of Honor - The primary antagonist was a very loud and stupid Wolf Star Colonel whose only definable trait was his mindless aggression. The Archer "Stonewall Jackson" Christifori Novels - I don't remember a single antagonist from these at all, except for Colonel Adam "Sir Barely Appearing in the Novel Line" Steiner. Who doesn't count because IIRC the antagonist of that novel was a (very loud and stupid) Clanner? I might be misremembering. Edit: Oh, wait, wasn't Nondi "The Loudest and Stupidest" Steiner one of Archer's antagonists? Or am I thinking of Peter or Arthur or whichever of Victor's younger brothers didn't die Davion. I admit I haven't read any of the Dark Ages novels, the first one by Stackpole was so bad I gave the whole series a miss. I really should rectify that at some point. I've come to genuinely like the Dark Age era for what it is, I just didn't get into any of the fiction because the "hard men making easy choices" thing put me off the whole novel line. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Jan 6, 2021 |
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Jan 6, 2021 20:23
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The first Archer book has the XO of the 15th Arcturan Guards as its antagonist. He is a stereotypical Lyran social general despite the fact he's only a Kommandant and should be getting laughed out of all the good parties. At no point is he ever competent, let alone a credible threat. I'm sure Pardoe thinks he was making some kind of commentary on Union officers since he thinks that's how the lines broke down. I think Nondi appears in the second and third books but maybe just in a framing narrative or something. Like in Voltron, where the bad guy would show up at the beginning and go "Voltron can't defeat THIS monster I'm sending! Hahaha!" and that's all they do. She shows up in the final FCCW novel where she drives out a Hauptmann to fight Peter's Fafnir in a city and gets her cockpit smashed by an HGR slug. Then Morgan Kell says "Peter is Archon now" and Peter is Archon.
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Jan 6, 2021 21:20
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As far as Dark Age novels go, I actually managed to get through Ghost War and A Call to Arms before giving up on Ruins of Power, which to this day is probably the worst book I've ever read. The villains in that book make Stackpole and Pardoe look like masters of subtlety and complex characterization.
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Jan 6, 2021 21:53
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PoptartsNinja posted:I admit I haven't read any of the Dark Ages novels, the first one by Stackpole was so bad I gave the whole series a miss. I really should rectify that at some point. I've come to genuinely like the Dark Age era for what it is, I just didn't get into any of the fiction because the "hard men making easy choices" thing put me off the whole novel line. I strongly recommend you give the Dark Age Line a chance starting with Flight of the Falcon. You kinda have to skip #3-6, then Patriot's Stand, then all of the rest (Except for the two Isla Bick Combine ones) are all pretty good. Surrender Your Dreams is very good because it has Republic Knights doing very dirty things to try to give Fortress Republic a fighting chance. You have these idealistic knights who get faced with implementing some very terrible plans given to them by Devlin Stone himself (well, a recording, via the current Exarch), and the way the novel is structured, you see how doing all these things puts them through a psychological wringer. If you read any Dark Age novel, I'd make it that one. Wizkids made the mistake of giving a lot of brand new writers a chance to write in the Battletech universe, but didn't apparently prime them on anything before, or at least nothing beyond the basics. I have never owned a copy of Ruins of Power or Patriot's Stand, and never will. I own the Proving Grounds trilogy only because as a teenager I didn't know any better when I bought them. I read them and immediately realized they were horrible.
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Jan 7, 2021 00:06
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Wizkids made the mistake of giving a lot of brand new writers a chance to write in the Battletech universe, but didn't apparently prime them on anything before, or at least nothing beyond the basics. They also made the mistake of having those writers be very bad. Ruins of Power isn't just bad because the writer doesn't know much about the universe. It's just a bad story, told poorly.
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Jan 7, 2021 00:10
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It'd be neat if Hell's Horses mechs and vehicles were particularly cool, as opposed to looking like something whipped up in a panicked weekend because everyone had blew off the assignment. edit- on further thought, Hell's Horses should just be a mercenary unit based on the Hells Angels. Fidel Cuckstro fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Jan 7, 2021 |
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Jan 7, 2021 14:43
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First they need to start writing them as a faction that is more than a faction that rotates through being the inept sidekick to others.
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Jan 7, 2021 19:19
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I legit really liked Wolf Hunters and the Free Worlds League reformed novels in the MWDA line. Marik (and pretend Marik) shenanigans are fun! From earlier HotW discussion of the colossal loving hypocrisy of Alaric and Malvina re:Republic tactics Why even bother with "dishonorable blah blah" bullshit when Clan elementals literally have a Headhunter configuration, and the Clans really enjoy blowing apart bunkers. Also, just lol at "amazing" characters that legitimately are angry at the Republic (not just showboating for political optics) for their mission when one is warcrimes r us and even the comparatively mellower Alaric loving killed tons of surrendered forces. gently caress this Confederate apologist hack, and gently caress this book
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Jan 7, 2021 20:15
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:That's the thing though, he has written really good novels. Target of Opportunity and Surrender Your Dreams are two of my favorite, and they're top tier for the Dark Age fiction line. Lol this post just made me realize something about HotW and these two MWDA books, and then back through Pardoe's other books. Target of Opportunity: bannson raiders bad guys get the Republic and Spirit Cats at each other's throats with a false flag attack. Surrender Your Dreams is substantially about a false flag attack on the new FWL. Hour of the Wolf's Headhunter attack bullshit features the Republic painting up the headhunters in Clan Wolf and Jade Falcon colors, yet more false flags Roll back to older BT books. Impetus of War, "captain awesome" Jaffray uses a false flag attack to get the Nova Cats to help out against the Jags. Highlander Gambit, bad guy AFFC pulls a false flag attack between Highlander and AFFC units. Though my memory is hazy might misremember that one, and I legitimately don't remember anything from his Stonewall Jackson wank books but I'm guessing there's yet another false flag in there Guess BLP really liked Comstar trying to blow up the NAIS in the 4SW
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Jan 7, 2021 20:33
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Defiance Industries posted:First they need to start writing them as a faction that is more than a faction that rotates through being the inept sidekick to others. They should be the ept sidekicks. The most ept. Always offscreen. "Ok this battle was hard fought but we pulled through. How did Hell's Horses fair?" "Yeah they wiped everyone out on the southern continent and now they're having a rager out on the beach"
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Jan 7, 2021 22:43
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