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Convex posted:In other made-up, looney left project fear news Of course, he won't, because it involves doing things. e: Both Martin Luther King Jr. and Malcolm X were assassinated at the age of 39.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:18
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he'll do it as soon as it'll make him more popular and not a minute before
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Jan 5, 2021 21:19
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Passing responsibility down the chain is what everyone does these days. Make every company you deal with need their own expert rather than handling stuff in-house, then fine them if they get anything wrong. Time was the Forestry Commission would handle all the health and safety organisation, badger licences, planning permission etc. on the jobs they manage, now it's all out of the contractors pocket.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:20
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Guavanaut posted:This would be the ideal time for Johnson to start pushing that cannabis law reform he was hinting at years ago, then it could be produced at home (or literally at home). God I hope so 
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Jan 5, 2021 21:25
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Paying £1000/year registration to allow you to legally collect VAT on behalf of the UK makes sense for an organisation as big as Amazon, given how much they sell in the UK. For small independent companies that can't afford that cost or administrative overhead... They'll have to find a re-seller who can manage that on their behalf. Like Amazon. It's a good principle let down by an abysmal implementation and a stubborn unwillingness to consider that VAT might not be the apogee of tax perfection.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:29
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^^ There is no £1,000 a year registration charge.serious gaylord posted:Because the long and short of it is that the big companies won't see any difference. Take Amazon for example, because of how they work and how they move goods around the world a sale made from a German company to a British person could be fulfilled from a warehouse in Kent, and tax, (this is where im a little out of touch with how they work so please do correct me if anyone knows for sure) is due from where the goods are at point of sale rather than where they originated from. This gives you weird situations where a person in Poland can buy a keyboard from a company in Spain but the goods are sent from a French warehouse so the Spanish company pays French VAT. But the target is the marketplace. All the thousands and thousands of companies that sell through Amazon's (or eBay) store front but are not actually Amazon - when you dig out the underlying invoice and find out your vendor was actually ShenZhenYiKuSuoMaoYiYouXianGongSi. Under the previous system Amazon had no responsibility for whether any of those vendors paid VAT, so obviously none of them did. Under the new rules Amazon are the ones responsible for calculating, collecting and remitting VAT on those sales, so they're now putting a 20% VAT charge on overseas marketplace sales that the vendor has no control over. Same with eBay. I think you're wrong on where they charge VAT - you get charged based on the storefront you use.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:31
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He was all for it till someone explained that when most people say that they "smoked a joint" at uni they don't mean gang loving a pig
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Jan 5, 2021 21:31
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Endjinneer posted:Paying £1000/year registration to allow you to legally collect VAT on behalf of the UK makes sense for an organisation as big as Amazon, given how much they sell in the UK. peanut- posted:I think you're wrong on where they charge VAT - you get charged based on the storefront you use.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:34
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sassassin posted:Passing responsibility down the chain is what everyone does these days. In latest news, first u turn took under 24 hours. All January exams will go ahead as planned has become 'colleges individually will decide if BTEC exams can go ahead' https://www.itv.com/news/2021-01-05/students-in-england-will-not-be-asked-to-sit-gcse-and-a-level-exams-this-summer
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Jan 5, 2021 21:34
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jiggerypokery posted:Why should UK businesses get undercut 20% by others who don't need to pay VAT? How it worked up until the beginning of the year was that people would get a bill from the carrier prior to delivery. This change requires the seller to register with the UK and charge VAT up front, plus deal with all the paperwork around it. The same amount of money is getting remitted, but it's going to be a much larger pain in the rear end for smaller sellers. For a direct example, I've been selling some pretty unique stuff, but it's relatively low-value (the side effect of a hobby, rather than an actual business), and I don't sell much of it. So, I won't be selling to the UK any more. It's just not worth the hassle. It also may not be worth selling stuff to folks in the EU after mid-year, either, but I need to take a closer look at the rules coming into effect there.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:35
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Convex posted:God I hope so Why would they do it now when they can hold it back for the next manifesto (and then not do it)
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Jan 5, 2021 21:35
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peanut- posted:^^ There is no £1,000 a year registration charge. I corrected my post to say its the storefront you use not the location of despatch. The Marketplace sales are already covered by paying local VAT for their sales. Italian vendors pay Italian sales tax on all UK sales. The UK would then get their cut on the import tax and duty which, as previously a member of the EU it hasn't levied on European sales. What this now is a case of the UK double dipping. This isn't about the international sales getting a 20% undercut by nature, especially in some countries where their sales tax is higher than the UK. The majority of vendors are making sales to individuals who are not VAT registered, which means they are not exempt from local sales tax, so again our Italian vendor would have to pay their local sales tax and then suddenly have to cough up to HMRC a few months later for the privilege of supplying luxury loo roll to a UK customer.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:37
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Some items on Amazon UK already have stopped being sent to Ireland directly. I have one account, but I buy stuff for my family home in NI, and my current home in the Republic. So I can show what a friend in Ireland had this happen to him. He would order some kimchee noodle cups as he loves them from the amazon.co.uk site. Last bought just before christmas. He was looking to buy more, but seems they just stopped. Here is what I can see on the page: If I ship to my NI home:  And to Ireland:  And if I click on the Buying Options its another 20 euro charge.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:40
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If anyone's looking for a bit of cheering up, I've been pleasantly surprised by Alexi Sayle's podcast: https://audioboom.com/channels/5038428 As one of the last proper lefty comedians it's a joy he has taken to the medium: I find him very easy to listen to, and while he spends a lot of time making GBS threads hard on labour but has quite an upbeat tone.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:41
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Important news: https://twitter.com/officialmachyo/status/1345647097161412608
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Jan 5, 2021 21:43
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Kreeblah posted:How it worked up until the beginning of the year was that people would get a bill from the carrier prior to delivery. This change requires the seller to register with the UK and charge VAT up front, plus deal with all the paperwork around it. The same amount of money is getting remitted, but it's going to be a much larger pain in the rear end for smaller sellers.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:43
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serious gaylord posted:I corrected my post to say its the storefront you use not the location of despatch. https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/vat-rules-rates/index_en.htm "VAT isn't charged on exports of goods to countries outside the EU. In these cases, VAT is charged and due in the country of import..."
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Jan 5, 2021 21:48
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Convex posted:In other made-up, looney left project fear news What's super insane about this is The UK is the largest exporter of cannabis in the world*. We could literally just let people do the final processing and fill these prescriptions in the UK if we wanted to. * This was 2018 so might no longer be true with more legalisation in American, but we still manufacture a poo poo ton of weed.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:49
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sassassin posted:Passing responsibility down the chain is what everyone does these days. Make every company you deal with need their own expert rather than handling stuff in-house, then fine them if they get anything wrong. There is something in sticking to what you're good at and buying in everything that you aren't. The flip sides are that staff in lower skilled jobs have much less opportunity e.g. your badger licenser can't work their way up the organisation to be a planning officer because they aren't in the same organisation. And also the salami-slice attitude to responsibility that's doing to the construction industry what CDOs did to the banks in 2008. See- Grenfell.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:49
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Pablo Bluth posted:That's how it's meant to work. But read any AliExpress or grey-import web discussion and it's clear that more probably gets missed than get's caught. For sellers that were already being dodgy about VAT, I imagine they'd just declare a low value on the package and mark it as a gift. I don't really see how this is going to prevent that.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:51
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Poor Chris Whitty. Only seems to be in because he rhymes with lovely.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:51
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Sad Panda posted:Poor Chris Whitty. Only seems to be in because he rhymes with lovely. School was not easy for Piss Titty. Not easy at all.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:53
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Kreeblah posted:For sellers that were already being dodgy about VAT, I imagine they'd just declare a low value on the package and mark it as a gift. I don't really see how this is going to prevent that. By shifting the compliance requirement to the marketplace not the vendor. The marketplace has to charge, collect and pay the VAT to HMRC now with no involvement from the seller. serious gaylord posted:I corrected my post to say its the storefront you use not the location of despatch. Sale to the UK is now non-EU so they shouldn't have to charge Italian VAT on sales to UK customers. I'll stop bogging the thread down with extremely dull indirect taxes stuff now, the costs of this are all in compliance and accounting headache - no-one should be paying taxes twice.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:56
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I think it would be great if a goon who really understands it could do an effort post on these tax/VAT things with some worked examples for smaller businesses and maybe a flowchart or two showing the payments. I would offer, but I'm not really sure. My beef with it for now based on my limited understanding is that the UK govt chose to impose this simultaneously with real brexit and on top of the covid 19 thing when small businesses are already struggling with paperwork demands.
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Jan 5, 2021 22:00
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Kreeblah posted:For sellers that were already being dodgy about VAT, I imagine they'd just declare a low value on the package and mark it as a gift. I don't really see how this is going to prevent that.
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Jan 5, 2021 22:00
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Anything that gets the likes of Amazon to pay tax of any flavour is cool and good imo.
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Jan 5, 2021 22:03
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You know, this kinda just reminds me of something I've seen in the workplace. Some fuckwit who doesn't know his arse from his elbow just repeats back to the bosses (and office drones) the things the bosses are saying without really adding anything new in order to present themselves as knowledgable. The office drones, not really knowing too much better themselves, start to perceive this person as another boss type character in the company because not only are they're saying all the same things the bosses, but they can see them starting to act just like the bosses too. Which, in turn, is getting them invited to all the bossy meetings and events. Over time this person then naturally ends up in that boss position themselves despite not actually having done anything of merit or success themselves. I'm beginning to wonder if that's Keith's long game strategy. Basically, spend 4 years sounding and acting like the current "idea" of a PM just parroting some variant of the same poo poo the government is so that when the election comes around he can naturally slither into the role without actually doing anything of merit. Kin fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Jan 6, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 22:05
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jiggerypokery posted:Anything that gets the likes of Amazon to pay tax of any flavour is cool and good imo.
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Jan 5, 2021 22:05
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jiggerypokery posted:Anything that gets the likes of Amazon to pay tax of any flavour is cool and good imo. This isn't amazon paying tax, this is their customers paying an incredibly regressive tax
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Jan 5, 2021 22:05
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:I think it would be great if a goon who really understands it could do an effort post on these tax/VAT things with some worked examples for smaller businesses and maybe a flowchart or two showing the payments. I would offer, but I'm not really sure. I think brexit kind of necessitated it. Also I think we should maybe get in line behind the government in terms of who the experts should be explaining this to.
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Jan 5, 2021 22:05
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Julio Cruz posted:he'll do it as soon as it'll make him more popular and not a minute before boris wins in a landslide as a massive voter shift between the parties happens due to legal weed
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Jan 5, 2021 22:08
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Absolutely amazed at the number of people in here that think VAT is a tax on businesses
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Jan 5, 2021 22:10
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Sad Panda posted:Poor Chris Whitty. Only seems to be in because he rhymes with lovely. Chris Whitty the chief medical officer overseeing one of the highest death rates in the world, higher even than the US? I think lovely is an accurate descriptor
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Jan 5, 2021 22:18
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It does a good job at shifting the burden of tax collection from the people who should be doing it to the people with an incentive to collect as much as possible and pass as little on as possible, a bit like the old Roman method of selling rights to be a tax collector. All in all, a poo poo tax on multiple levels.
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Jan 5, 2021 22:18
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blunt posted:What's super insane about this is The UK is the largest exporter of cannabis in the world*. Fucks sake. In all honesty I stopped over a decade ago but it was the only thing that actually helped with my anxiety and having moved all over the country it's just not an option any more, particularly with it being illegal obviously. So many mental and physical health issues that could be helped, let alone cutting costs to policing and the massive boost to government revenue 
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Jan 5, 2021 22:25
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Tarnop posted:Absolutely amazed at the number of people in here that think VAT is a tax on businesses Do they? Or do they think that small companies having an added burden put upon them to manage its collection is essentially a tax on business.
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Jan 5, 2021 22:26
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Yo VAT is payable regardless of where the goods are from. On domestic sales, company adds VAT to the goods price, pays this on your behalf in their accounts, and can offset various things against VAT receipts, etc. It's paid by the company, but passed onto the consumer, obviously. This is why we have prices inc. vat as standard in the UK On import sales, normally what happens: 1. The goods are siezd by customs for being woefully under-declared, you then need to pay the correct tax direct to HMRC as well as whatever fine they impose assuming they didn't destroy it. 2. If it gets sent to a post office because of non-payment of VAT, you then have to go there, you pay the tax there on the declared value of the good, and then they'll let you pick it up. 3. The Courier firm (Fedex, DHL, DPD, whoever) pays it on your behalf on the good-faith assumption that you do indeed want the goods you ordered delivered, they then bill you for the tax. This is a *lot* more common in the states but I've had it happen to me in the UK once before. At no point is VAT *not being paid* on any goods, regardless of where they have come from. The difference is now the government wants companies based in say, spain, sweden, china, etc, to *register a company in the UK* and collect and pay VAT direct to HMRC as if they were a domestic company. That includes various overheads and fees to the company to do this, not just the problem of paying tax. For example if you don't have any prescense in the UK, you're going to be eb paying an accountant to do that for you.
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Jan 5, 2021 22:50
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Kin posted:I'm beginning to wonder if that's Keith's long game strategy. Basically, spend 4 years sounding and acting like the current "idea" of a PM just parroting some variant of the same poo poo the government is so that when the election comes around he can naturally slither into the role without actually doing anything of merit.
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Jan 5, 2021 22:53
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Drone_Fragger posted:On import sales, normally what happens:
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Jan 5, 2021 22:59
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Guavanaut posted:4. You agree as part of your purchase that your paying account can be used to pay any VAT and import, usually via an intermediary (usually Pitney Bowes) and you see a card charge for ~20% + £2 admin a few days after your purchase, which is a lot better than the 20% + £8 admin the Post Office charge. (Which is also better than what HMRC want companies to do, and will probably end up being the way once this whole thing pisses off enough people.) Ah yea, that one too. Not had that one happen to me before.
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Jan 5, 2021 23:12
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