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Yep. There's no evidence of any PIE speakers having writing.
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Jan 6, 2021 04:54
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Dalael posted:Are these distinct language or just your doctor's notes? wikimedia posted:From the 1897 book Eclectic Shorthand by Cross. Scanned by Marlow4 and placed in public domain.
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Jan 6, 2021 05:05
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Grand Fromage posted:
I know it's my own English centric view point but it's always crazy to my that there are systems that don't include vowels. Is there a reason for that?
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Jan 6, 2021 06:06
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My guess for ancient writing is the same as why Latin inscriptions have so many abbreviations, ancient writing is a pain in the rear end and you aren't intending anyone to read it who isn't fluent in the language, so if you have the consonants down you can read it and it was faster to write. Languages have fewer vowel sounds than consonant sounds generally so you can get the words without them. Wrks k n nglsh s wll. Eaie o ea a oy oe. Easier to read than only vowels.
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Jan 6, 2021 06:11
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Another thing to note with regards to the lack of written vowels in some ancient scripts is that this practice is most commonly seen in Semitic languages (like ancient Egyptian or Hebrew). These languages emphasize vowel sounds less then other languages do, such as the fact words in almost never begin with vowels in Semitic languages. Certain words in English, such as "I," or "oil," or "era" lose all meaning if you remove the vowels, but words that are structured like this do not generally exist in Semitic languages.
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Jan 6, 2021 09:15
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Grand Fromage posted:My guess for ancient writing is the same as why Latin inscriptions have so many abbreviations, ancient writing is a pain in the rear end and you aren't intending anyone to read it who isn't fluent in the language, so if you have the consonants down you can read it and it was faster to write. Languages have fewer vowel sounds than consonant sounds generally so you can get the words without them. Wrks k n nglsh s wll. Eaie o ea a oy oe. Easier to read than only vowels. omg wtf r u evn on abt?
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Jan 6, 2021 09:22
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Carillon posted:I know it's my own English centric view point but it's always crazy to my that there are systems that don't include vowels. Is there a reason for that? Alphabets are for the weak, abjads are stronger and rote memorization of thousands of characters is the sign of true strength of will. 这是为什么中文是世界上最好的语言。
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Jan 6, 2021 10:08
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Semitic languages are just legible without vowels as a quirk, largely due to the root word system.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_root You’ll have to learn the vowels as a non-native speaker but as a fluent one the morphs of root consonant words change the meaning without needing to see the accompanying vowels. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Jan 6, 2021 |
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Jan 6, 2021 14:38
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PittTheElder posted:And our understanding of proto languages seem to be changing a ton. Wikipedia's PIE article has a bunch of reconstructions of the same passage from the last few decades, and today's looks nothing like the early ones. Though that could also be just spelling changes and they'd be pronounced very similarly? Idk. Or those are just different people's guesses over time. Its not like there's much new evidence coming out. Older reconstructions aren't necessarily worse. Helpfully BTW Coptic is written in a Greek derived alphabet which includes vowels.
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Jan 6, 2021 22:03
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The Lone Badger posted:Cursive dates from when lifting your pen off the page would create blots and drips. It is obsolete. Its a lot quicker to write even without that which is why it didn't die with the fountain pen.
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Jan 6, 2021 22:10
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If I get time travel I'm recording some PIE. also giving machine guns and TNT to the Gauls just for kicks.
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Jan 6, 2021 22:23
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My prediction is Rome conquers Gaul quicker as the gauls continue to fight amongst themselves and Rome aquires the technology quickly.
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Jan 6, 2021 22:53
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If I get time travel, I'm giving Rome Facebook and they will collapse before they have time to conquer Gaul.
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Jan 6, 2021 22:56
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Giving the nuke to Hannibal (and also to Rome) just to see what happens.
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Jan 6, 2021 23:39
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feedmegin posted:Or those are just different people's guesses over time. Its not like there's much new evidence coming out. Older reconstructions aren't necessarily worse. I’m not especially well versed in linguistics but my impression from reading about ancient Korean/Japanese is that our understandings of how a lot of this works have changed quite a bit over the decades. And even if not, newer guesses are built on top of older ones.
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Jan 6, 2021 23:44
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FreudianSlippers posted:Giving the nuke to Hannibal (and also to Rome) just to see what happens. Don't even care about the immediate effects, the archaeology and mythologizing of the detonation site is what would be really interesting.
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Jan 7, 2021 00:17
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feedmegin posted:Or those are just different people's guesses over time. Its not like there's much new evidence coming out. Older reconstructions aren't necessarily worse. Well I think where they're making advancement is in the linguistic comparative method, and that leads to shifts in our grasp of PIE. But I am not a linguist.
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Jan 7, 2021 01:46
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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There wasn’t necessarily a single unified PEI language at any point, correct?
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Jan 7, 2021 03:52
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It was probably more a spectrum of largely mutually intelligible languages than a single one, yeah.
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Jan 7, 2021 04:18
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Ola posted:If I get time travel, I'm giving Rome Facebook and they will collapse before they have time to conquer Gaul. Didn't they already have Forum trolls?
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Jan 7, 2021 10:21
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Fish of hemp posted:Didn't they already have Forum trolls?
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Jan 7, 2021 11:58
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Fish of hemp posted:Didn't they already have Forum trolls? Good point. But you had to lurk the Forum a while, otherwise you'd get :when-Lepidus-was-consul-rolleyes:
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Jan 7, 2021 12:05
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Ola posted:If I get time travel, I'm giving Rome Facebook and they will collapse before they have time to conquer Gaul. you joke but roman elections were less democracies with rules of law and more popularity contests of who could turn out a bigger patronage network out on the streets they would take to it like fish to water. it would be trivial to get your followers out to burn down the houses of your political opponents
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Jan 7, 2021 13:06
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Fish of hemp posted:Didn't they already have Forum trolls? greece had an agora troll living in a barrel
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Jan 7, 2021 13:15
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???????????????????????
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Jan 7, 2021 13:28
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Diogenes is Greek for Oscar.
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Jan 7, 2021 13:54
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CrypticFox posted:Reconstructing Sumerian phonology is a lot harder then Mycenean Greek though, since Mycenean Greek can be compared to Attic and Modern Greek. There is no modern language that is even all that similar to Sumerian, so figuring out how that language would have been spoken requires a great deal of guesswork. Egyptian is actually somewhat easier (in some ways, the lack of vowels are still a major issue), even though its about the same age as Sumerian. A direct line can be drawn from Ancient Egyptian to the Coptic language, which is still (barely) in use today. My understanding was that with Sumerian, the long period of Sumerian-Akkadian bilingualism helps a lot. I believe there are even surviving examples of Sumerian pronunciation guides for the discerning Akkadian-speaker. So working back through the Semitic languages, we can at least get some idea.
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Jan 7, 2021 14:02
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Mr. Nice! posted:Diogenes is Greek for Oscar. Behold, my can
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Jan 7, 2021 15:17
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Fish of hemp posted:Didn't they already have Forum trolls? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kQhG_uVu6U
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Jan 7, 2021 18:21
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Ola posted:If I get time travel, I'm giving Rome Facebook and they will collapse before they have time to conquer Gaul. The Romans would be the most powerful posters of them all
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Jan 7, 2021 18:54
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JC would be the best twitter poster ever, that is true.
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Jan 7, 2021 18:55
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euphronius posted:JC would be the best twitter poster ever, that is true. He'd be funny as hell in the modern age of cameras and all, "OH YEAH I BEAT THE PISS OUTTA THEM GAULS" "bitch you signed a treaty it's on camera"
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Jan 7, 2021 18:58
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Lucius Vorenus, twitter: the heroes of the 13th Legion would never engage in petty looting and thievery amidst the sacred halls of the Roman Senate! We are but patriots come to restore the Republic! Titus Pullo, livestreaming with selfie stick: HAHAHA I got Cato's scroll!! This is Cato's own scroll! I took this, Titus Pullo of the 13th Legion!
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Jan 7, 2021 19:18
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Vespasian would be good on twitter. Cicero would be a blue checkmark who posts only 1/48 threads, but you follow anyway because sometimes he posts one hell of a burn.
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Jan 7, 2021 19:35
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The chuds would go absolutely shithouse for Basil II. Make Bulgaria Blind Again. that story is hella apocryphal and the grand blinding absolutely didn't happen but still. Really most of the populist emperors would have rocked that poo poo
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Jan 7, 2021 19:57
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euphronius posted:JC would be the best twitter poster ever, that is true. Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres /1
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Jan 7, 2021 21:29
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It's time to remember about The Photoreal Emperor Project again.
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Jan 7, 2021 21:39
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What’s the thread’s opinion on the Tusculum portrait?
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Jan 8, 2021 01:50
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Mr. Nice! posted:What’s the thread’s opinion on the Tusculum portrait? Looks like Caesar to me.
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Jan 8, 2021 02:19
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Mr. Nice! posted:What’s the thread’s opinion on the Tusculum portrait? Didn't turn out well. Kind of a bust.
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Jan 8, 2021 02:21
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