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I haven't built my own cable car way at this point and going off screenshots because the internet doesn't have the cable car stats. They look like 20 people tincans, are they actually more like 6? The minibus is the perfect power plant staffer in more ways than one so if it's comparable then yes, perfect.
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Jan 4, 2021 19:54
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I just learned you can use cable car stations as bus stops. This... solves a lot of problems I was having.
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Jan 4, 2021 20:06
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zedprime posted:I haven't built my own cable car way at this point and going off screenshots because the internet doesn't have the cable car stats. They look like 20 people tincans, are they actually more like 6? The minibus is the perfect power plant staffer in more ways than one so if it's comparable then yes, perfect. I think the smaller ones might be 5-6, but I’ve only ever used them for mines so I’ve opted for the big ones which are 10-12. It factors out to the equivalent of 35kph but with functionally no delay in arriving one per second or so. They’re really handy for things that you want to keep staffed, assuming you can tolerate the visuals in a place that may not call for cable cars. Arven posted:I just learned you can use cable car stations as bus stops. This... solves a lot of problems I was having. I tried this once and it didn’t work for me (no one got off the bus), I ended up having to drop folks at a bus station nearby. I’ll have to see if I mucked it up somehow.
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Jan 4, 2021 20:16
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You can have busses pick people up from them I meant. Any time I build a cableway workers seem to prioritize it over the bus station right next door, so my solution was to set the cableway as a source of passengers. Cableways aren't capable of keeping up with the throughput of people waiting at them, so having busses steal from the waiting worker pool doesn't matter. Also having used both light and heavy cablways now... I think light might be better? Heavies are significantly slower and space the cars out by a lot, and the increased passenger space (12 total) doesn't seem to make up for it.
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Jan 4, 2021 20:21
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Arven posted:You can have busses pick people up from them I meant. Any time I build a cableway workers seem to prioritize it over the bus station right next door, so my solution was to set the cableway as a source of passengers. Cableways aren't capable of keeping up with the throughput of people waiting at them, so having busses steal from the waiting worker pool doesn't matter. You’re in luck because I have two mines currently served by bus and I might be able to do an experiment to test this theory out. (Though really you just need to roughly measure the arrival frequency*capacity to compare rates.)
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Jan 4, 2021 20:24
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Is the car spacing not determined by how many you buy? Or does the light cableway also support more cars?
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Jan 4, 2021 22:48
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Does anyone have a solid handle on the mechanics of oil/fuel pumping? I think I can make an adequate 'overflow to an export tank' set up by doing something like:  I think what happens here is that the two pumps will force the "Domestic use" tank to fill first, because they're actively pumped, and the export tank will only fill when the intermediate tank starts to fill up (I believe these will fill evenly, so if the intermediate tank is at 200L, the export tank will be at 200L.) This is absolutely what I want to happen, because I always want there to be domestically available bitumen and fuel. What then confuses me though is that I'm not sure what happens if I attach a train loading to the export tank. Is this going to function as a pump, so it'll have the same 'priority' as the domestic tank if a train is waiting? I think maybe the train loading can only "see" what's in the export tank, so it won't actively 'pull' through the intermediary tank, but I'm not sure. If no one knows, I'm going to try this set up and see if it works. e: considering there are multiple outputs of the refinery you might be able to treat that as the "intermediate" tank, even. Anime Store Adventure fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Jan 4, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 23:42
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Pretty sure liquid pulls only happen from one entity away so a train will drain your bottom tank in your picture, and by virtue of the sloshing mechanism, will indirectly pull slightly more than not from the top left tank but the pumped path will get priority to the top right still. Messy possibly but will basically get what you want. Loading to the train directly from the refinery will direct 50% always when the train is there which might be preferable as a devil you know. Since you have trains up and running the foolproof alternative is to have refinery to make tank to train load. Then train stop 1 is domestic tank farm and train stop 2 is export stop. Unload until full at domestic tank farm and you will top up anything missing before unloading true excess at the border. You pull all domestic needs from domestic tank farm (from rail stop or road connections or both)
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Jan 5, 2021 00:20
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zedprime posted:Pretty sure liquid pulls only happen from one entity away so a train will drain your bottom tank in your picture, and by virtue of the sloshing mechanism, will indirectly pull slightly more than not from the top left tank but the pumped path will get priority to the top right still. Messy possibly but will basically get what you want. I had thought of this, since it’s how I intend to set up my other goods that will be overproduced for export, but I’m just in a spot where this set up would be so much more convenient for me space and set up wise right now. (I sort of need to get fuel going quickly, if I want to keep pace with the goals I have.) I’m going to try what I drew and see - what you described about the “sloshing” is why I think it’ll work. Im not worried if there’s some minor inefficiencies in the set up, so long as it doesn’t either 1. Extinct my domestic supply or 2. Block up the refinery because I’m not using enough of either fuel or bitumen. I’m also going to try to cut out that intermediate tank, and just pump to the domestic tank and go un-pumped to the overflow/export tank from the refinery. Conveyors added priority, why can’t I have it for pipes? 
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Jan 5, 2021 00:41
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VostokProgram posted:But those workers will die of pollution. And you'll need to plop a kindergarten and school and all that too. Maybe this is a good use case for cable cars though? If you are a true workers paradise, bordering on perhaps bourgeois opulence, you could always create a rail stop with frequent motor rail cars to an industrial area containing municipal utilities. The workers can walk to the train station, the rail carriages are not slowed by the weather (  ), and you can have relatively decent queueing of excess workers.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:02
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I would pay actual hard earned dollars to have a tool that either measured rail distance since the last signal when I had the tool selected, or something that would just autoplace a signal every x meters until it hits a junction of any kind and let me figure out the intersections. I actually kind enjoy signalling an intersection, there's a certain zen to it and it feels good to finish. Signalling the long rear end trunk lines sucks and is boring.
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Jan 6, 2021 01:14
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OwlFancier posted:E: Can pedestrians path through buildings to reach other buildings? Or do you have to have paths going direct to every building you want? I know construction equipment needs a clear path but can people walk through buildings? no, you want direct footpath access to each building.
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Jan 6, 2021 01:19
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Anime Store Adventure posted:I would pay actual hard earned dollars to have a tool that either measured rail distance since the last signal when I had the tool selected, or something that would just autoplace a signal every x meters until it hits a junction of any kind and let me figure out the intersections. nothing like laying a ton of track and only finding out an hour later when you actually route a train down it that one of your 50 non-junction signals is facing the wrong direction
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Jan 6, 2021 02:14
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Pornographic Memory posted:nothing like laying a ton of track and only finding out an hour later when you actually route a train down it that one of your 50 non-junction signals is facing the wrong direction You would think this would be simple to remember and notice but it always happens. Worse, I have a friend, born and lived in the US and has now been in the UK for about a year. He plays and is absolutely constantly mentally screwing up the signals and his brain isn't tuned enough to right-hand drive that he can stare right at the problem signal and not notice it. I feel for him.
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Jan 6, 2021 02:20
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Anime Store Adventure posted:Does anyone have a solid handle on the mechanics of oil/fuel pumping?
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Jan 6, 2021 17:19
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OwlFancier posted:I haven't actually tried it with pipes because I have nothing to pipe, but conveyor towers have a priority function, do pipe splitters also have one? If so can you use that to make your overflow system? They do not, but the above design did work (though I used the refinery itself as the “intermediate” tank.) I haven’t tried it with a waiting train but I’m pretty sure the train can only pull from the overflow tank so it should be Working as Intended.
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Jan 6, 2021 17:31
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I'm mighty impressed this game is only 4 gigs. That earns it a space on the SSD for sure. Is there any way to have the game load straight up rather than go through the set-up screen?
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Jan 6, 2021 18:46
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Anime Store Adventure posted:You would think this would be simple to remember and notice but it always happens. Wait... the signals in this game are right hand drive? gently caress.
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Jan 7, 2021 05:17
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Arven posted:Wait... the signals in this game are right hand drive? gently caress. You can signal it either way you want! And also, I might have confused the terms. I signal as though it is a car driving in the right lane, for clarity.
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Jan 7, 2021 05:40
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Yeah trains I think you can set up how you like but the roads are based on driving on the right side which is a bit annoying. It would be nice if these embankments were part of the normal game and also integrated better, if you could path through them (which vehicles can for some buildings) and you had stair options and also they would snap together it would be a lot of fun. 
OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Jan 7, 2021 |
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Jan 7, 2021 12:46
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for the folks talking about alt-tabbing in W&R leading to instability/crashes i found out you can force borderless fullscreen using this open source borderless gaming tool
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Jan 8, 2021 14:08
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Someone in the old Management game thread posted a big list of mods to try with this game that I'm now interested in after sinking a dozen hours in vanilla. Does anyone have a link to that post or is he in this thread somewhere?
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Jan 8, 2021 15:48
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:Someone in the old Management game thread posted a big list of mods to try with this game that I'm now interested in after sinking a dozen hours in vanilla. Does anyone have a link to that post or is he in this thread somewhere? Hey that's me https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2329453474 I covered any weird caveats in the notes in the collection. I tried to organize them once but steam decided it didn't like my order so its all over the place. Lemme know if you have any questions! e: really the meat of what I use are the rob074 collections linked. Most everything in that collection is the few extra necessary ones (like conveyors) and then random ploppable cosmetics. Anime Store Adventure fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Jan 8, 2021 |
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Jan 8, 2021 16:45
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Awesome thanks
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Jan 8, 2021 17:05
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I did a not-quite-cosmonaut start near the border and started by building a coal plant and construction industry with some bauxite mining on the side to fund myself, then realized I was hella far from a good coal/iron deposit and decided to daisy chain construction outposts toward it. In the process I learned a valuable lesson on population pressure, because I took so long to get new housing up and didn't make nearly enough, I ended up with a city where like 1/3 were people living with their parents, who eventually all fled the republic for lack of housing and left me with a city of people too uneducated to work my industries, so now a city of 7,000 at its peak providing more workers than I knew what to do with has sunk to 5,000, of whom about 1,500 are actually educated enough to work. Whoops!
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Jan 8, 2021 22:39
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https://www.sovietrepublic.net/post/report-for-the-community-9 Mixed traaaaaaaaaains.
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Jan 9, 2021 07:04
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Anime Store Adventure posted:https://www.sovietrepublic.net/post/report-for-the-community-9 Yessss Now just make it so that vehicles depart instead of being bound by a drip-feed of resources!
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Jan 9, 2021 07:36
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Volmarias posted:Yessss Christ loving this please.
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Jan 9, 2021 13:23
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Anime Store Adventure posted:https://www.sovietrepublic.net/post/report-for-the-community-9 Hell yeah. Lots of uses for this but my biggest one has to be construction because right now if you want to keep all your construction storages topped up you have to send a separate train for each good or your mixed train ends up carrying like 100 tons of boards, 20 tons of bricks, and 5 tons of steel and panels. Also despite the extra challenge, seasons are rad as hell. Cities in fall and winter look really good. Here's some pictures of my current run, in which I finally used a bunch of mods.      
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Jan 9, 2021 19:53
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I'm struggling to see how trains are practical for delivering passengers. Frankly I'm struggling to see how long range commutes are practical at all. Trains have high volume but I can't see how you'd use more than a fraction of it, and you also seem like you would lose a huge amount of productivity with staffing shortages unless you somehow flood your train lines with trains, which jams them up because of block restrictions. Also I wish that like, different structures had different walk radii. Like a large train station should serve a whole town, a hospital, a university etc, it seems stupid that a bus stop has the exact same amount of appeal as a major train station, what's the point of using anything but buses for passenger transit?
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Jan 9, 2021 20:32
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OwlFancier posted:I'm struggling to see how trains are practical for delivering passengers. Frankly I'm struggling to see how long range commutes are practical at all. Trains have high volume but I can't see how you'd use more than a fraction of it, and you also seem like you would lose a huge amount of productivity with staffing shortages unless you somehow flood your train lines with trains, which jams them up because of block restrictions. When you start making big boy factories like steel, aluminum, vehicles, etc, you need literally hundreds of simultaneous workers for full efficiency, not to mention the mines providing raw materials needing several hundred themselves. A steel mill working near maximum output will account for 1500 workers a day (500 for each 8 hour shift). It's not impossible to staff with buses (I've done it myself) but trains do start looking pretty good at this point, especially if you managed to construct it sufficiently close to a convenient resource deposit (each iron/coal mine and processing is another daily 600+) or you build any spinoff industry nearby.
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Jan 9, 2021 20:54
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Labor, trains aren't really going to do much for you when you have predictable, important to keep uptime sort of draws. You would probably most commonly use labor transport by train only for staffing frontier construction zones: your backwoods can become very accessible at a high volume with one train line so you can bring the labor to build the town/worker barracks by train instead of twisting them through dirt back roads by bus. Fake edit while typing: yeah, they are good for steel mills too. I've also see them used for flavor/semi efficient exurb/suburb/urb zoning where all your pop need satisfying buildings (besides food and sports) are downtown and your passenger train line collects off duty folk to go downtown for the less common needs of consumer good shopping, culture, and medical. Especially medical since those are pretty costly to build and staff.
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Jan 9, 2021 21:00
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OwlFancier posted:I'm struggling to see how trains are practical for delivering passengers. Frankly I'm struggling to see how long range commutes are practical at all. Trains have high volume but I can't see how you'd use more than a fraction of it, and you also seem like you would lose a huge amount of productivity with staffing shortages unless you somehow flood your train lines with trains, which jams them up because of block restrictions. zedprime posted:Labor, trains aren't really going to do much for you when you have predictable, important to keep uptime sort of draws. You would probably most commonly use labor transport by train only for staffing frontier construction zones: your backwoods can become very accessible at a high volume with one train line so you can bring the labor to build the town/worker barracks by train instead of twisting them through dirt back roads by bus. A lot of it comes down to planning on using them, too. You can pretty adequately serve anything by bus and, since you start with buses more or less out of necessity, you'll probably not see much need to change to trains or trams for those industries you're already serving by bus and you can continue to plan on building towns and industries to work that way. Instead, though, you can plan on putting industries along train lines to serve multiple with one train line, or to serve big workforce-sinks like steel mills or vehicle plants. There's also the issue of more and more road vehicles eventually choking things up with traffic, especially as you get multiple bus lines with 6, 8, 10, 12, etc buses per line to one big platform. This gets compounded when you add private vehicles into the mix. You can argue "Well why would you do that," and you're right - Really, you don't need trains for labor and can use buses and manage the traffic any number of ways, but that's just part of the sandbox of the game, imo. I want to give my dudes little cars to drive around, so eventually buses are going start adding to the issue. Plus, I'd like to move as much to electric as possible once I get a nuclear plant going so as much as I can I'm running on clean energy! Totally unnecessary, but part of my personal 'endgame.' Eventually I'll use trains to get students to the university in a main city from their small town that doesn't have one. I can, absolutely, just build another university which again leaves you at, "So why use trains?" so I guess my argument is just that its a sandbox. While I see what you're picking at re: 'appeal' of stations, I think its just sadly another case of sort of having to work within the confines of the system and understanding that there's going to be some limitations and rules you'll have to brute force with line and station logic. Having them have a more or less equal 'weight' as a destination allows you to manually control the flow and adds additional challenge regarding transporting people. If a train station could serve a much larger area you'd start to get into gamey things like having citizens travel 50ft on a tram to another train station and now they can walk anywhere they need to. Though I think implicit in what you're saying is, "I'd rather I didn't have to worry about priorities and deciding for peoples' transit myself, and would like the buildings I place to help make those decisions for citizens in a more automatic way" and, while understandable, definitely goes against the philosophy of what the game's doing. It also starts to create some weird issues of its own where if you don't agree with what those rules are, you're now actively fighting against logic instead of just having a sort of "dumb" network where you've made and can change all the rules. It's like the very common question of "Can I get people to transfer lines?" which usually people find janky - and it is janky - to have to force everyone via a rule to congaline to a new station. But the minute you start to delve into, "Well just let them choose another station automatically or wait there for another bus" you open up absolutely tons of cases that become really hard to handle both as the game designer or as the player designing a network. The solution they have isn't intuitive in many ways but it gives you a whole lot of control and the relatively simple, 'dumb' behaviors mean that the complexity of your system all comes from you. (Whether or not you see that as a good thing, though, is definitely a matter of opinion, because part of that involves a lot of thinking, clicking, and often reevaluating when it doesn't work exactly how you had planned.) That said I do wish the game had something more like transport fever 2 wherein you gain something from shuffling people around. "Profit" doesn't seem right for the game, but I wish there was perhaps more of an 'internal tourist' sort of feeling, maybe it gives them some kind of boost as a 'vacation' or whatever. Or, perhaps your excess citizens from the huge birthrate could be delivered safely to the Soviet border for a boost in your population's loyalty, since you're taking care of people... Or something. I don't have good ideas for it, but there's definitely a lack of reasons other than bigger industries or planning to use trains to serve multiple industries. Tourists help somewhat, at least.
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Jan 10, 2021 00:42
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When I say I struggle to see how you would use the capacity I mean on the loading end, I struggle to see how you would be able to push enough workers into the rail system in order to utilize the capacity of the trains. I can entirely see how you would want to move vast quantities of workers to the later factories, but because of the limitations of the walking distances it seems like you would need to try and jank together some kind of bus system anyway to get them to actually go to the rail yard and also to staff the entire factory at the other end, so why bother with the rail system which is already very fiddly to make work. I already tried building an interconnected food factory and because you can't build paths across factory connections the workers won't staff the whole thing without having a bus to move them to the other side of the factory, which is equally just... bizzare? It's not a big factory, I live right next to a gigantic industrial site so I know how big they are and the bus services drop workers at the gates and it has an internal rail station, neither of which are practical for this game. It just seems... weird? And needlessly so because it seems entirely within the capability of the game's systems to provide any number of solutions to that problem but it seems like it just doesn't want to for some reason? re: creating situations requiring player intervention, the game already has tools that let you do that so if you did have an edge case you already have the ability to resolve it, but I don't see the need to make players do that all the time? Also didn't you say earlier that the point of the game was to avoid having to do that? Isn't that why it has distribution centers and the walk radius anyway? It seems weird to just... not allow you to utilize more things like that if you want to? Basically I just don't see how the game is enhanced by having to put down extra mass transit stops and use more vehicles to achieve a pretty no-brain goal? It's not really interesting to have to keep putting down sequences of the same half dozen buildings over and over and remember to add more stops to the lines as you do. And furthermore I think that having to do that and the propensity for it to break down a lot really just encourages you to not engage at all with any of that and just build factories in the middle of cities and who gives a poo poo? Either it's about creative expression in town layout or it's about maximising productivity and neither case really seems to support the way the game handles a lot of its logistics. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Jan 10, 2021 |
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Jan 10, 2021 01:35
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How big are you making your trains? I mean, yes, you are going to have to bus people to a single station if you’re intending to use that station to fill up multiple trains of hundreds of people from the same platform and the result of that might be that you find it’s just easier to skip the train step. It all depends on how you’re approaching it though - I have a pretty distant city staffing my refinery. It has two bus lines, one that grabs passengers from the edges of the city and brings them to the center for services, another that does the same stops on the edges but grabs workers instead and drops them adjacent to the train station, where they walk. It’s a total of four bus stops and a train station, and only because I chose to separate the town service stop and the train station bus stop. It’s not massively complex. That town is far from finished but I’ve already managed to get a train of up to 200 people once (the line is two passenger trains with a roughly 360 capacity each which isn’t a great frequency, but it’s good enough for now.) Granted that’s not consistent but I could easily be pumping a lot more people into that train station with just two distant “feeder” bus stops and my cities aren’t totally built on top of each other. The trains I have are faster than buses but functionally there’s not a whole huge advantage for trains if for arguments sake my bus fleet and my trains ran at about the same speed, and arguably in a steady state that speed isn’t that important if the bus line maintains a higher frequency and isn’t getting stuck or dumping workers because of timeouts. So ultimately sure, maybe I don’t need trains that way, but getting 500 people to one spot is the same challenge whether you do it at the factory complex or whether you do it at the train station. Walking distance is like 400m along lighted roads. You can put thousands of workers in a 400m square area with services included. There’s definitely challenges with factory Tetris and getting people to work from their destination stop, not much to say about that. There’s some balanced mods (in terms of workers/production rate/footprint) that do offer better, or at least different factory connection options - and often you don’t need to connect things at all and can serve them via a very close by depot and just have a truck line or distro center that shunts goods that short distance to keep the factories fed, or the factory’s output empty. Which, yes, this gets “fiddly” but ultimately that’s really what the meat and potatoes of the challenge and network design is here.
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Jan 10, 2021 02:00
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I dunno man I think you just fundamentally are bouncing off what the games presenting and instead of risking coming off as rude trying to pick into some of your things and explaining why I personally like them, I’ve got to just sort of settle on I don’t think you’re going to be a fan. Nothing wrong at all with that, it is a really weird and unique “layer” of game that you’re correct in saying really isn’t good as either a pure aesthetic builder or pure factorio production game. You have to sort of thread between the two and that has a a very niche appeal, I’d think.
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Jan 10, 2021 02:09
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Info about the cheat menu https://www.yekbot.com/workers-resources-soviet-republic-cheats-debug-menu/ There's an option to autospace out your buses once you've turned the cheat mode on. Can be useful if you are running multiple buses on a single line to a large facility and seeing huge peaks and troughs in the worker levels. Game should probably do it anyway but eh .... Quite a big playthrough here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPpg-nv45nM by a guy who is a city planner IRL. Can be very frustrating at times as he comes to grips with some game mechanics but even with the inbuilt jank he's making some good stuff. biglads fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jan 11, 2021 |
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Jan 11, 2021 21:08
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biglads posted:Info about the cheat menu Wait, they're hiding an auto spacing feature from us? Aaaaaaah! It must be janky or something if they're hiding it.
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Jan 11, 2021 21:21
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Anime Store Adventure posted:Wait, they're hiding an auto spacing feature from us? Aaaaaaah! It must be janky or something if they're hiding it. Honestly it's the only thing I've used out of all the cheat functions. I always feel I'm only scratching the surface with this game, autospacing seems to help to keep the power & heating on at least. biglads fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jan 11, 2021 |
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Jan 11, 2021 21:25
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I wish that distribution centers could handle pickup from fields, seems daft really to have to store trucks in the agro farm when you only use them for a fraction of the year. E: wait what the gently caress I just tried it again and it seems they can?? That makes farming a lot less grief. It didn't work the first time I tried it.
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Jan 11, 2021 22:42
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