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Can anyone think of an automated way to determine with circuits whether an or an array of assembly machines are fully prod moduled? I have two ideas, not sure how workable they are: 1. Count output inserter swings from your prod3 assembler, compare to a hardcoded value supplied by your blueprints, assume bots will fill module requests in the BPs eventually. 2. Time the output swings on your assemblers. Assuming saturated inputs and full power you can expect a certain cadence given the productivity bonus. Wondering if there are any other creative approaches. The overall idea is to generate some signals and push production towards the efficient assemblers enabling more as module saturation spreads.
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Jan 7, 2021 05:28
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boo_radley posted:
It takes 10 rails to make 1 purple science, you'll drain the two blue belts of rails dry before you bottleneck the output red belt.
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Jan 7, 2021 05:32
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Jabor posted:It takes 10 rails to make 1 purple science, you'll drain the two blue belts of rails dry before you bottleneck the output red belt. Yes!!! this is part of my thought process - suppose we have max inputs, how could we keep up? I'm pretty sure this is madness, but this is what I came up with in the past few minutes. I kept the outputs red for visual clarity right now, but it still fits within two "rails" of beacons. tweaking the inputs and power will be interesting, I think. 
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Jan 7, 2021 05:44
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if you have an aversion to belt weaving, you can also do this layout to have 2 input belts (4 lanes) in a 8 beacon setup: (sorry the screenshot is so poo poo) The output belt side loads an underground as an output so you only get one lane worth of output but that is fine for a lot of things.
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Jan 7, 2021 06:46
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i automated green science! ive never gottent his far playing before lol. it broke my brain a bit figuring it out im dumb and thought the factory things couldnt do larger than 2 item recipes so i was confused as hell until i realized i could just pick whatever in the list for them to make
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Jan 7, 2021 08:12
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queeb posted:im dumb and thought the factory things couldnt do larger than 2 item recipes so i was confused as hell until i realized i could just pick whatever in the list for them to make Not too long ago, you would have been right. I think it was one of the last major updates before release removed that limit. Also congrats on automating your second science pack! It gets fun from here. E: It still sounds weird to say 'release' about a game I've been playing for most of a decade.
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Jan 7, 2021 08:20
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boo_radley posted:Yes!!! this is part of my thought process - suppose we have max inputs, how could we keep up? I'm pretty sure this is madness, but this is what I came up with in the past few minutes. I kept the outputs red for visual clarity right now, but it still fits within two "rails" of beacons. tweaking the inputs and power will be interesting, I think. I think the big issue is that if you go with the narrow approach, you get to double-dip on beacons and use them for two adjacent production lines. Your proposed setup is going to be a lot wider to accommodate those horizontal belts, taking up a lot more effective area. If you're setting up fully-beaconed setups, one relevant question to ask "how much space does it take to produce a full belt", and putting multiple columns of the narrow variant next to each other is going to be very space-efficient overall.
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Jan 7, 2021 08:26
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queeb posted:i automated green science! ive never gottent his far playing before lol. it broke my brain a bit figuring it out Keep it up! You're about to start getting all the really cool stuff.
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Jan 7, 2021 10:50
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electric furnaces! oh they need steel. oh steel is 5 iron plates per, i guess my 5 furnaces and 3 miners making plates isnt gonna keep up now. i like how i feel less tied to ratios in factorio over just making sure im outputting as much as i can. satisfactory im like OK this put out 30/ min so i need 2 of these, etc/ factorio i feel like, oh. im not keeping up with demand, ill just drop another 5 miners. queeb fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Jan 7, 2021 |
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Jan 7, 2021 16:12
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Electric furnaces shift the efficiency factor around a bit and aren't necessarily immediate upgrade territory. I'd bolster your existing production before switching over. I haven't generally swapped over to mainly-electric until I have nuclear up. Speaking of which, almost have nuclear running in the spaghetti save. Not automated and very fragmentary, but as soon as I have enough uranium for a fuel cell I can manually power it on. Much earlier than last time around. e: to give a little more direct consideration to efficiency
SkyeAuroline fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Jan 7, 2021 |
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Jan 7, 2021 16:18
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Jabor posted:I think the big issue is that if you go with the narrow approach, you get to double-dip on beacons and use them for two adjacent production lines. Your proposed setup is going to be a lot wider to accommodate those horizontal belts, taking up a lot more effective area. Are there any rules of thumb for which modules to use in beacons and which to use in the factories/etc. that the beacons are supporting?
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Jan 7, 2021 16:25
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If you're still using stone furnaces, definitely upgrade to steel furnaces. They can drop in straight over your old ones.
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Jan 7, 2021 16:25
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Ciaphas posted:Are there any rules of thumb for which modules to use in beacons and which to use in the factories/etc. that the beacons are supporting? Productivity modules can't go in beacons last I checked, so prod in any machine that supports it, speed in any that don't, speed in beacons is the rule of thumb I've always seen used.
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Jan 7, 2021 16:29
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Ciaphas posted:Are there any rules of thumb for which modules to use in beacons and which to use in the factories/etc. that the beacons are supporting? It depends on your goals. If you're going for a fully beaconed megabase setup, then productivity modules in assemblers and speed modules in beacons is basically the way to go. Power is cheap and productivity modules are free resources (and pay for themselves quickly in machines building high-tier intermediates). If that's not your goal or you're at a different phase of the game then you can do different stuff. Level 1 efficiency modules drastically reduce your power consumption - and can be a reasonable alternative to building out massive solar farms. Speed modules without productivity can bail you out if you're bottlenecked on something and don't have room to expand it. A mix of productivity and speed before you've unlocked beacons can help stretch your blue circuits that little bit further.
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Jan 7, 2021 16:33
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I love how many different approaches there are to this game. I've played 900+ hours and have built maybe a handful of beacons, and have never bothered trying to efficiently put anything anywhere, and even late-game rarely build electric smelters. It's way easier to stamp out another copy of basic smelters (or a mod's small electric smelters) - space is infinite so why bother with all of that? A few screens worth of solar panels and batteries and some trains so I can spread out does the same job.
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Jan 7, 2021 16:42
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Jabor posted:If you're still using stone furnaces, definitely upgrade to steel furnaces. They can drop in straight over your old ones. You want to upgrade to red belts at the same time, so you can go from one full yellow belt to one full red belt in the same space
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Jan 7, 2021 16:43
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Koobze posted:I love how many different approaches there are to this game. I've played 900+ hours and have built maybe a handful of beacons, and have never bothered trying to efficiently put anything anywhere, and even late-game rarely build electric smelters. It's way easier to stamp out another copy of basic smelters (or a mod's small electric smelters) - space is infinite so why bother with all of that? A few screens worth of solar panels and batteries and some trains so I can spread out does the same job. I mostly just switch to electric for logistics simplification. When it's a bus base, it's one less train line and complex set of belts to route to the production areas; for spaghetti or train outposts the logistics get ridiculous quickly. Either way, being able to just send fuel over a wire helps. I only really abuse beacons if I have to fit something in a tight space thanks to my own poor planning. Otherwise it can just be bigger.
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Jan 7, 2021 16:48
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queeb posted:
Yesssssss
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Jan 7, 2021 16:48
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Koobze posted:I love how many different approaches there are to this game. I've played 900+ hours and have built maybe a handful of beacons, and have never bothered trying to efficiently put anything anywhere, and even late-game rarely build electric smelters. It's way easier to stamp out another copy of basic smelters (or a mod's small electric smelters) - space is infinite so why bother with all of that? A few screens worth of solar panels and batteries and some trains so I can spread out does the same job. Space is infinite, but your computer isn't. Endgame beacon builds are mostly there to reduce the amount of active entities, so you can become even bigger before your game slows down.
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Jan 7, 2021 16:50
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queeb posted:factorio i feel like, oh. im not keeping up with demand, ill just drop another 5 miners. I was watching a new player stream last night, trying to just give tips on UI functionality and the like, but they were playing with 3 people and only had 6 total iron miners. They kept almost, but not quite, realizing that they needed to put down a ton more miners. There should be more encouraging new players to stream their playthrough. Blind Factorio is one of the most fun things to watch.
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Jan 7, 2021 17:43
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K8.0 posted:I was watching a new player stream last night, trying to just give tips on UI functionality and the like, but they were playing with 3 people and only had 6 total iron miners. They kept almost, but not quite, realizing that they needed to put down a ton more miners. yeah im realizing how fastim going to have to scaleup. also i feel like a genius, setting up a steel foundry, wondering how the gently caress im going to snake coal all the way over, since i though steel furnaces were electric but they arent. then i realized you could filter splitters. so now im just filtering my excess coal off my iron makers over to the steel ones. 
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Jan 7, 2021 18:54
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I have to say, as a new player it really helps and makes the game fun for me to play it almost as a roguelike. I build a new base, and then as I learn to use the new technologies I realize I've kinda hosed myself over with the crazy spaghettiness. So now I know how to use the new technologies, I restart a new base and this one is slightly better, allowing me to learn even more stuff! But then it gets so messy again and I don't wanna go back and redo everything. So I start again and get even further! Does anyone else do this or am I just a weirdo who finds the early game too much fun
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Jan 7, 2021 19:03
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That's the best way to do it tbh. A dozen or so pages back you can probably find my bases, I built a complete base up to the third science tier, and then when I had electric furnaces I started building a second base next door from scratch incorporating what I'd learned. Best way to do it early on.
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Jan 7, 2021 19:15
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ok wow steel furnaces are a huge upgrade.
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Jan 7, 2021 19:21
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Jabor posted:It depends on your goals. Are productivity modules on their own not a net-gain, then?
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Jan 7, 2021 20:32
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Ciaphas posted:Are productivity modules on their own not a net-gain, then? They're not a gain in units manufactured/second without speed modules (or beacons with the same), but they are of course a gain in units/input material. The time it takes to make back your investment depends, but prod modules on the rocket silo and high-end recipes pay themselves back in minutes. Even the speedrun uses prod3s in the rocket silo, and that's just for a single rocket. In general, put your highest end prod modules in things like your rocket science, purple science, yellow science, processing units and rocket control units as soon as you can. You're effectively getting a boost on every raw material that goes into them, which is huge. For more intermediate things like red chips, blue science, etc you want to use something cheaper, at least initially. Just using 3x prod1, 1x speed1 pays for itself relatively quickly and has a fraction of the start-up cost compared to a full beacon setup with only rank 3 modules. Prod modules early in the chain are much less efficient, taking several hours to repay their own cost. Things like furnaces and wire and gear assemblers are basically the last thing you module, except possibly efficiency 1s for power if you really want.
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Jan 7, 2021 20:44
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Kvlt! posted:I have to say, as a new player it really helps and makes the game fun for me to play it almost as a roguelike. It's faster to move a mile to the east and use the corpse of your own base to build a new one. Think of it like a ghosts file  Seriously though, lots of people do that but just be careful to not burn yourself out on the early game - it happens quicker than you think.
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Jan 7, 2021 20:46
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Thinking i might restart myself, but this time with a railworld and going for Lazy Bastard. Seems like something I might want a guide for? (e) Found it, yep I definitely would have messed that up without one Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Jan 7, 2021 |
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Jan 7, 2021 21:41
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I'm torn on doing Lazy Bastard first run. On one hand, it will teach you the core good habit of automate EVERYTHING, but on the other denying yourself the very meaningful impact of hand production (especially early on) kinda sucks.
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Jan 7, 2021 21:51
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i started on a rail world for mine since it seemed neat. was that a bad idea for starting?
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Jan 7, 2021 21:58
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Lazy Bastard is theoretically good but it's balanced a tad on the side of annoying especially now that you just slap down a grey assembler and build what you want after the annoying bootstrapping. It's just mental fortitude to go through the bare bones startup and then never accidentally hit the craft buttons.
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Jan 7, 2021 22:03
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Ciaphas posted:Thinking i might restart myself, but this time with a railworld and going for Lazy Bastard. Seems like something I might want a guide for? There is a good chance that the guide is from before the last assembler rebalancing. Lazy bastard got significantly easier after that. The best lazy bastard guide is the 100% speedrun. e: and the most important tip is to remap the craft buttons.
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Jan 7, 2021 22:04
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VictualSquid posted:e: and the most important tip is to remap the craft buttons. Isn't there a console command to disable crafting, so you just hit that button after your first assembler and only turn it back on very cautiously?
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Jan 7, 2021 22:13
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Arcturas posted:Isn't there a console command to disable crafting, so you just hit that button after your first assembler and only turn it back on very cautiously? I haven't heard of that before. And most console commands disable achievements.
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Jan 7, 2021 22:14
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VictualSquid posted:I haven't heard of that before. And most console commands disable achievements. That one doesn't. It's a multiplayer permission thing where you just remove the permission to craft for yourself
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Jan 7, 2021 22:21
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queeb posted:i started on a rail world for mine since it seemed neat. was that a bad idea for starting? I don't think so. The starter patches are probably the same (or better?) than default and you can still ignore trains and launch a rocket so its really up to you when you want to make the leap to trains. The other difference with railword is that biters don't expand which means you can clear an area and consider it clear for good. I also play railworld as I find the train part my favorite part.
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Jan 7, 2021 22:26
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Does anyone bus stone or stone bricks? I think I might next time, rails and electric furnaces are proving to be a perennial pain in my rear end
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Jan 8, 2021 00:32
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Bus stone bricks, since they're used in both creating structures and in purple science. Raw stone is only used in your mall (for rails and landfill), you can run it straight in from the back instead of using a bus lane. Or you can bus it that far, and then take it off to free up that lane for some other intermediate. Don't run it all the way down the bus.
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Jan 8, 2021 02:04
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Jabor posted:Bus stone bricks, since they're used in both creating structures and in purple science. Doesn’t yellow or grey science need rails?
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Jan 8, 2021 02:19
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You need raw stones and bricks for purple science. And bricks for grey science. For a small base I would run a mixed belt for both. And when I build a bus I generally bus both.
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Jan 8, 2021 02:47
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