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Gambrinus posted:It's not funny though. I've had cunts like you taking the piss out of the Welsh all my life, thinking it's all a big laugh. i can absolutely and with certainty say, you did not have cunts like me. i am Canadian, for one, so my exposure to Wales has been somewhat limited to date before i moved here, but i don't believe i have ever commented on Wales, except to be critical of Welsh nationalism - not as Welsh nationalism specifically but no more or less then i am critical of all nationalism, as it is mind poison. it ruins your brain, and hey here is a great example - someone is being critical of your ideology, and you have been taught that that is equivalent to attacking your identity - you've been taught to equate it to drowning villages for goodness sake! i do not think you are a big, small or any other kind of laugh. would it help you if i spend some time struggle sessioning my own national identity? because i hate Canadian nationalism probably more than anything else on this earth, and by god do i hate and fear English nationalism. the only unionism i give a poo poo about is trade, and you can ask around - i don't even oppose independence movements, although i despise those that rely on nationalism to keep their masses in line. first i am a blood and soil fascist as that is the easiest way to dismiss something - paint it as black as possible and you don't even have to look at it. then i challenge that and then okay fine well i'm a nazi, i'm jim davidson, i'm every english prick, and i keep challenging these assessments as totally untrue and silly and suddenly it's not that i'm racist it's that i'm selfish, i'm a jerk, i'm a prick - that there is no longer an argument attached to the animus but instead that you hold it because. i would say - you hold it because you have been trained that your national identity defines your personal identity, and as such when i am mean to the idea of wales, via some indirect or intangible way, i am being mean to you. this is the kind of ridiculous thing i like to highlight. also, i don't like being called a loving nazi. but i think i'm done, for today. apologies for the mess.
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Jan 9, 2021 16:10
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https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1347923133244854272?s=20 Thank God I was getting worried they'd be unsafe 
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Jan 9, 2021 16:12
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"im not owned! im not owned!!", i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a cool cab
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Jan 9, 2021 16:14
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personally i would just not make fun of peoples names and if someone told me to cut it out I would probably stop but I concede that I am built different.
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Jan 9, 2021 16:15
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Yeah TSD definitely is quite lib in that it perhaps overstates how much of an effect social media has had, but then again it is a documentary about social media, not on why the world is hosed, and it does a pretty good job of introducing some concepts to help explain how social media has contributed to that in a really big way. It’s got me motivated to do more reading into it anyway. I have a young sister who’s getting to that age and I’d like to be able to play some part in protecting her from the worst of it. The general concept of truth is something I’d like to read and talk more about too. It seems to be becoming more and more subjective - post-modernism might accidentally have been more true now than it could have known. Truth has always been subjective but I don’t think the obliteration of objective reality is a good thing at all.
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Jan 9, 2021 16:15
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I was going to be critical and wonder why they waited this long given how old they are, they could of have justified having it straightaway, maybe they wanted the plebs to taste their potential poison first. but actually I think them having it might be a positive thing and encourage old codgers that were wary of it that well actually if the queen is having it it must be ok.
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Jan 9, 2021 16:17
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Jakabite posted:Yeah TSD definitely is quite lib in that it perhaps overstates how much of an effect social media has had, but then again it is a documentary about social media, not on why the world is hosed, and it does a pretty good job of introducing some concepts to help explain how social media has contributed to that in a really big way. It’s got me motivated to do more reading into it anyway. I have a young sister who’s getting to that age and I’d like to be able to play some part in protecting her from the worst of it. postmodernism was supposed to liberate us from the shackles of establishment 'truths', but the right have ruthlessly exploited its lessons in a way the left never did and probably never could
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Jan 9, 2021 16:17
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thrashingteeth posted:https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1347923133244854272?s=20
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Jan 9, 2021 16:21
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Richard Drax sounds like a supervillain name and he is also a villain IRL. Also his full name is Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax what a posh oval office lol
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Jan 9, 2021 16:22
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do germans get upset about Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern-schplenden-schlitter-crasscrenbon-fried-digger-dingle-dangle-dongle-dungle-burstein-von-knacker-thrasher-apple-banger-horowitz-ticolensic-grander-knotty-spelltinkle-grandlich-grumblemeyer-spelterwasser-kurstlich-himbleeisen-bahnwagen-gutenabend-bitte-ein-nürnburger-bratwustle-gerspurten-mitzweimache-luber-hundsfut-gumberaber-shönendanker-kalbsfleisch-mittler-aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm
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Jan 9, 2021 16:24
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Jakabite posted:Yeah TSD definitely is quite lib in that it perhaps overstates how much of an effect social media has had, but then again it is a documentary about social media, not on why the world is hosed, and it does a pretty good job of introducing some concepts to help explain how social media has contributed to that in a really big way. It’s got me motivated to do more reading into it anyway. I have a young sister who’s getting to that age and I’d like to be able to play some part in protecting her from the worst of it. The way I look at it is that there never was an objective reality, only a more hegemonic subjectivity. How would people before mass media have established a single, objective reality? Other than by their subjection to structures enforcing one like the church and the greater social structures of their world? Seems reasonable, IMO, to view the evolution of mass media as just another kind of that control and the transition to personalized, on-demand media as an interesting change in that for the first time it greatly democratizes human ability to communicate across the entirety of our species, and necessitates the development of a way for us to handle that. But I believe the democratization is a good and important thing, we can't live our lives beholden to the whims of church, press, governments or kings to define our reality for us. If there is to ever be an objective reality rather than merely a more hegemonic hallucination then it us up to us to build it, together, and the first step of that is giving us the ability to talk to each other. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Jan 9, 2021 |
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Jan 9, 2021 16:25
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therattle posted:It’s me! I’d be happy to give you some tips: PM me.  This is me giving you the nod of solidarity that passes between one parent of a kid with DS and another
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Jan 9, 2021 16:26
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Guavanaut posted:It reminds me of this article which makes a valid point that American racists were quite capable of forming mobs and trashing government buildings back when 'technology' meant 'discourse on the arts.' I think the point is that between then and perhaps 5 years ago, there was a period in the middle. Which was dominated by largely centralized mass market newspapers and TV. In that period, your country was either ‘liberal’, ‘fascist’ or ‘communist’, and had a corresponding Overton window. A situation like that in the US, where a single country has, simultaneously, several non-overlapping windows is not something seen since the rise of universal education and mass literacy. Treating the current situation as a mere fascist insurgency, as a lot of US liberals are currently doing, is to underestimate the significance of the situation. It is not that the fascists might win and gain control; it is that there there will be nothing left to gain control of.
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Jan 9, 2021 16:31
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Is it possible that the accusation of fascism over Star Wars names and the 3+ pages of complaints of same are both dumb and boring? If that makes me a noncommittal centrist then I guess my name's Keir Star Wars
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Jan 9, 2021 16:34
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Derbyshire Police are back at it again...https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55594244 posted:A police force that was criticised for its "intimidating" approach to two walkers is to review its lockdown fines policy. Really would have thought that after the NPCC told them "yo wtf?" for their behaviour during lockdown #1 they would have chilled out a bit, but I guess police gonna police🤷 .
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Jan 9, 2021 16:45
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Failed Imagineer posted:"im not owned! im not owned!!", i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a cool cab This whole dumb and bad derail has been redeemed by this post (sorry coolcab).
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Jan 9, 2021 16:45
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radmonger posted:A situation like that in the US, where a single country has, simultaneously, several non-overlapping windows is not something seen since the rise of universal education and mass literacy.
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Jan 9, 2021 16:46
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Wachter posted:Is it possible that the accusation of fascism over Star Wars names and the 3+ pages of complaints of same are both dumb and boring? If that makes me a noncommittal centrist then I guess my name's Keir Star Wars This made me  that Keir Starmer is actually an incredibly Star Wars pilot name - like Luke Starkiller, and his buddy Keir Starmer
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Jan 9, 2021 16:48
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While we're on the subject, Welsh "sheep shagging" jokes are incredibly loving boring, and you owe it to any Welsh person not to say them because they're probably at the point in their life where every time they hear it they fake a laugh and die a little bit inside.
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Jan 9, 2021 16:50
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It is well known that if you're in the vicinity of yorkshire everyone who lives in the next village over is a sheep shagger anyway. Keep it local.
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Jan 9, 2021 16:52
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwet6xL5n7Y
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Jan 9, 2021 16:53
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goddamnedtwisto posted:This whole dumb and bad derail has been redeemed by this post (sorry coolcab). That, and he has a Blake's 7 name. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Jan 9, 2021 |
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Jan 9, 2021 16:54
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Oi before you put words into my mouth, do read my posts and the posts that... caused?... this derail in the Feb 2020 UKMT. Or don't. Seriously don't. They're not better than this derail.
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Jan 9, 2021 16:55
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OwlFancier posted:It is well known that if you're in the vicinity of yorkshire everyone who lives in the next village over is a sheep shagger anyway. Keep it local. Unless you're on about Huddersfield, they gently caress dogs there.
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Jan 9, 2021 16:56
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Guavanaut posted:I'm not sure that's ever been the case though, at least for the US. Segregationist states and states without that history had different education, social conversations, and Overton windows even when they had the same three national TV channels. Or similarly the various UK trends in voting habits and social attitudes across geography and urban/rural divides. The world has always been full of different conceptions of what "reality" is and that underlies most political differences.
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Jan 9, 2021 16:56
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crispix posted:I am from NI - a place where people were genuinely brutalised, terrorised and often murdered over national identities for decades and I can remember that poo poo. You will have to forgive me for not taking seriously someone who is losing their poo poo because someone said some bloke's name reminds them of star wars That's what I was skirting around earlier, aye
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Jan 9, 2021 16:57
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OwlFancier posted:It is well known that if you're in the vicinity of yorkshire everyone who lives in the next village over is a sheep shagger anyway. Keep it local. We just had a derail about naziism over dehumanising people via slurs and you go and post this, incredibly bad and stupid take, because it’s well know that it’s the Forest of Dean that’s full of inbred sheep shaggers with 6 fingers on each hand.
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Jan 9, 2021 16:58
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I don't think Cab is that bad personally, I'm just vastly autoprejudiced against anything he says because of the James Corden AV. i would never, ever change this avatar. i could never dishonour the mystery redtext person like that. what's a blake 7 name?
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Jan 9, 2021 17:00
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CoolCab posted:i would never, ever change this avatar. i could never dishonour the mystery redtext person like that.
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Jan 9, 2021 17:02
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That and the "more like BOLLOCK-nese" are the only good redtexts ever
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Jan 9, 2021 17:05
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radmonger posted:A situation like that in the US, where a single country has, simultaneously, several non-overlapping windows is not something seen since the rise of universal education and mass literacy. I think you have this backwards - IMO this has almost always been the case with all but the smallest communities, it's only with the rise of non-centralised media that we're aware of it. To use a (hopefully trivial enough to be safe) relatively recent example, Sunday trading laws in the 80s - much of Wales and parts of Scotland and northern England were still in an almost Puritanical state where basically no business activity was allowed on a Sunday, and the debate was over whether the local corner shop should be allowed to open for 4 hours so people could pick up a Sunday paper and a pint of milk, whereas in most cities (and, weirdly, Cornwall) it was over whether we should be telling non-Christians what they could and couldn't do on the Christian Sabbath, and whether or not a Sabbath day was even worth observing (and also on the labour rights of workers and whether or not you should be entitled to a guaranteed day off in the week whether for religious or non-religious reasons). These are - although over, as I say, a relatively trivial matter - ideological differences every bit as wide as the ones over, say, gay rights between the coastal states and the Bible Belt in the US - they're almost not even on the same axis. The thing is though that these debates were mostly confined to local press and local council chambers and so the guy in the buckle hat in the Welsh valleys lambasting people for wanting to buy a dozen eggs on the Lord's Day wasn't even aware that the debate in Lewisham and Liskeard* was over whether people should get overtime and/or a day in lieu for Sunday opening. * I mention Cornwall because the nutter in charge of Trago Mills (and who went on to be a founder of UKIP) was pushing this non-Christian religion thing pretty hard, while also (allegedly!) offering incentives for his staff to sign waivers saying they were non-Christian and fine with working on a Sunday.
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Jan 9, 2021 17:07
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Failed Imagineer posted:That and the "more like BOLLOCK-nese" are the only good redtexts ever 
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Jan 9, 2021 17:09
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OwlFancier posted:The way I look at it is that there never was an objective reality, only a more hegemonic subjectivity. I don't think rejecting the idea of objective reality is actually that helpful or true - sure it's important to talk about how reality is obviously different for everyone, a la post-modern thought, but there is an objective reality - or at least one so close as to be objective, and to call it elsewise is helpful only to those who want to spread false narratives. For examples, the objective truth is that Joe Biden legitimately won the US election. Now if we wanted to we could say no, actually, that is not an objective truth because (insert philosophy essay here). However, it's about as close to an objective reality in the political sphere as you get it - it is,for all intents and purposes, true. The point made in the doco is that truths like that are being subsumed by the idea of subjective reality because social media algorithms, and the echo chambers that happen online, (and a lot of other factors it doesn't mention), are creating subjective realities for people that differ so strongly from the objective reality that it's created enormous societal schisms - the kind that end up with a bunch of brainwashed fascists storming the White House because Hilary is baking children into pizzas then sucking their adrenaline or something. To us that's absolutely mental, and it is absolutely mental because it absolutely isn't the truth - but literally tens of millions of people now, because of the internet, believe that to be their reality. And so does everyone around them. I absolutely believe in democratised communication and being able to link up with each other, but I can't think of any mainstream, widely used platforms where that's possible. Messaging apps are the obvious exception but even then massive groupthink starts happening. Things like Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube - all of the places where the majority of the industrialised world gets its current affairs information and analysis from now, are the opposite of democratic communication. Or if not the opposite, something very different. I'm not saying the internet is bad - far from it. But in its current form, and in the way the majority of people interact with it currently, I do think it's doing a HELL of a lot more harm than good. And that's not to mention the micro-issues that become macro through accumulation, like the affect on the average attenion span, phone addiction, how it affects self-image, etc.
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Jan 9, 2021 17:12
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Failed Imagineer posted:That and the "more like BOLLOCK-nese" are the only good redtexts ever Several were lost to time - god, it was ages ago now. I have never met James Cordon nor been to that service station, of course there never was an argument about spagetti bollonese, nor do a wide number of us write S Club 7 fan sites or that puppet show with the ships erotic fiction. It was like we were receiving red texts from a better version of reality - one where our squabbles were not about nationalism but instead far purer things. Unfortunately, this is still our reality - this the thread for arguing about nationalism, even when people would prefer this thread to be a place where we post twitter replies, wail and gnash our teeth, or call each other neonazis baselessly and evoke the holocaust flippantly due to our deeply felt anti-racist credentials. Sometimes, it is a place for us to disagree - we shouldn't want anything else. In my opinion, anyway.
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Jan 9, 2021 17:14
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Kieth weighs in https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1347934997701918722?s=20
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Jan 9, 2021 17:24
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Jakabite posted:I don't think rejecting the idea of objective reality is actually that helpful or true - sure it's important to talk about how reality is obviously different for everyone, a la post-modern thought, but there is an objective reality - or at least one so close as to be objective, and to call it elsewise is helpful only to those who want to spread false narratives. For examples, the objective truth is that Joe Biden legitimately won the US election. Now if we wanted to we could say no, actually, that is not an objective truth because (insert philosophy essay here). However, it's about as close to an objective reality in the political sphere as you get it - it is,for all intents and purposes, true. The point made in the doco is that truths like that are being subsumed by the idea of subjective reality because social media algorithms, and the echo chambers that happen online, (and a lot of other factors it doesn't mention), are creating subjective realities for people that differ so strongly from the objective reality that it's created enormous societal schisms - the kind that end up with a bunch of brainwashed fascists storming the White House because Hilary is baking children into pizzas then sucking their adrenaline or something. To us that's absolutely mental, and it is absolutely mental because it absolutely isn't the truth - but literally tens of millions of people now, because of the internet, believe that to be their reality. And so does everyone around them. The entire concept of electoral and democratic legitimacy is contingent on enough people belieiving in it, though? Like yeah he got enough votes to win the election, but that doesn't mean people have to like it or think that it is legitimate or good? You can certainly make the argument that it is more important to preserve belief in the legitimacy of the electoral system than to have the guy you want in power, and you can also make the argument that trump is a garbage president who shouldn't be in power regardless, but in no case can you escape the fact that a crisis of the legitimacy of the governing apparatus of the US is not some unfathomable event, countries have those crises all the time because for whatever reason a sufficinet plurality of the people living there cease to buy into that particular mass hallucination that it is legitimate. Like yes there is, presumably, an actual real reality which we can attempt to discern the shape of by prodding it with sticks and seeing what happens but in the realm of society, almost everything we deal with is constructed out of the mass belief of other people, that's what a social construct is. And what I am saying is that I don't think that humanity as a whole has ever had a unified connection to absolute reality, what we have had more recently is more hegemonic social constructs enforced by things like press, church, and state. But it is the nature of people who form communities to build their own conceptions of the world and many of them are directly in opposition to the ones with more resources and more power. It is weird to me to try and cast the world before today as ever having some actual objective truth to it that we have strayed away from, rather than just a more effective domination of a smaller number of truths over others. Social spaces do not, I think, just appear out of nowhere, they reflect the actual diversity of experience and ideas of human beings, and I don't like or understand the desire to just... shove all those back in the box or at least under the subjugation of the dominant narrative. That kind of thinking is what gets you suppression of LGBT rights, labour movements, women's emancipation, all that poo poo. Because what are those but people forming communities to reflect their reality and seeking to topple the dominance of the mainstream reality that denies their validity? I don't think the conspiracy theorists just emerge out of nowhere, I think it is a reflection of actual problems in the world that people do not have a better explanation for, because they have been primed by extremely traditional forms of media to reject better explanations, it makes no sense to me to look at that and say "well the problem is social media is taking the conspiracy nuttery out of the hands of us, the people who created it for profit and because it suppressed backlash against the predatory actions of our state, and now it's affecting us in ways we didn't predict, so obviously we need to ban social media" Complaining about the polarizing effects of social media I think is ultimately just a complaint by people who either don't understand how the world works and are only seeing a very small part of a wider structure, or who do understand how it works and what they dislike is that they are losing exclusive control what people believe, but they phrase it as if what they want people to believe is somehow "objective" which is just what every lovely lib journalist in the world does on twitter every day when they whine about the mob saying they're full of poo poo. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jan 9, 2021 |
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Jan 9, 2021 17:25
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CoolCab posted:the ships erotic fiction Is... is it this part?   Jakabite posted:I don't think rejecting the idea of objective reality is actually that helpful or true
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Jan 9, 2021 17:28
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queen mary gonna ram u poop deck m8
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Jan 9, 2021 17:31
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blunt posted:Derbyshire Police are back at it again... The Tier 4 regs had 2 x exclusions for meeting one other person in an outdoor space: 'recreation' or 'exercise'. The lockdown regs brought this down to just 'exercise', removing the 'recreation' exclusion. Common sense, to me, suggests that having a cup of tea while walking around a lake that you have driven 5 miles to get to is more accurately described as 'recreation' than 'exercise'. Obviously going for a walk is and should class as exercise, but in thise case bringing a nice cup of tea is what swings it towards 'recreation'. This is separate to whether you think those rules themselves are actually reasonable, and/or if you think the police should be putting resource into enforcing such balanced nuance rather than - you know - investigating all those crimes they keep delaying.
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Jan 9, 2021 17:33
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I think it's a bit stupid to say you can only exercise if you don't enjoy it. I bring drinks and sandwiches when I go for a walk because I like to stop to catch my breath and eat something when I do.
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Jan 9, 2021 17:35
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