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Pyronic
Oct 1, 2008

ROYAL RAINWHARRGARBL

ninjewtsu posted:

question: what are the good mecha animes that have, like, adult main characters/aren't about child soldiers

a good chunk of Gundam features Adult main casts and dont focus on child soldiers, 08th MS team, 0083, 0080... Contemporary mecha might be more difficult to find.

Argevollen
Knights of Sidonia
Break Blade
Active Raid (more power armor but still)

EDIT: Gun X Sword is on the older end but still really good.

Pyronic fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Dec 25, 2020

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dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006

No kids in Getter. Gaogaigar has kids in the supporting cast but they don't really fight for the most part.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Big o, no kids only a suave negotiator, a giant robot, a butler with an eye patch, and a robot maid.

Pyronic
Oct 1, 2008

ROYAL RAINWHARRGARBL
Chiming back in with Dai-Guard, the mecha show about a salaryman who pilot's his company's mascot, a real super robot against interdimensional aliens.

Like What if 10 years from now Bandai was like "oops Yokohama Gundam is fully functional"



VVVVVVVVVVV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EHmbrK8KZI

Pyronic fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Dec 25, 2020

Zero_Tactility
Nov 25, 2007

Look into my eyes.

Pyronic posted:

Chiming back in with Dai-Guard, the mecha show about a salaryman who pilot's his company's mascot, a real super robot against interdimensional aliens.

Like What if 10 years from now Bandai was like "oops Yokohama Gundam is fully functional"
The theme song is also impossibly catchy.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



ninjewtsu posted:

question: what are the good mecha animes that have, like, adult main characters/aren't about child soldiers
When you say adult do you mean "the MC is a legal adult," "the show doesn't bring up themes about child soldiers," or "the show has a generally serious tone"?

To give an example: Every pilot in Godannar is a legal adult and I don't believe it involves child soldier themes, but it sure the gently caress ain't serious. Everyone in the original Macross is an adult, though Hikaru is a pretty young dude. In general you're going to have a lot of MCs who are young men even if they are not boys.

Anyway, another one: Gundam 0083.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



ninjewtsu posted:

question: what are the good mecha animes that have, like, adult main characters/aren't about child soldiers

Lessee, sticking to what I've seen...

VOTOMs is frequently cited, but I'd call it an edge case. Chirico's technically a teen and an ex-child soldier, but he's treated like an adult and he is eighteen. He's about as much an adult pilot as Akihiro in IBO season 2, or Setsuna in 00 season 2.

Patlabor was brought up earlier, and it's drat good, but it's not about soldiers. It is, however, about adults with jobs and lives. Even the youngest person in the cast is a police academy graduate, and some of the leads are even nearing middle age. (Goto gets as much focus as anyone, and he's been around for a while.)

If you don't mind short, then you can go with Macross Plus. Like 08th MS team, the leads are adult professionals who don't act too professional, but unlike 08th, it's actually as good as its rep says. High speed action, great music, likable characters (who are also assholes who make a complete mess of their lives). It's very different from the usual Macross, which is why it's a favorite for so many people not that interested in the series otherwise.

Orguss has its focus on a pretty unprofessional professional soldier. I didn't much like it (I prefer Orguss 2, whose lead might be 18, if I remember right), but it has its fans. Orguss 2, meanwhile, has Lt. Manning as one of the major supporting characters, and he's amazing. If you wanted to see a hybrid of Askeladd and Zapp Brannigan in a mech anime, he's exactly what you didn't know you needed.

The mech fights in Orguss 2 are pretty weak until the end, though.

Getter Robo Armageddon's timeskips mean that everyone who pilots a Getter is 18 or older, excluding Go, who's weird.

For Gundam, G is the obvious choice (Domon's 20), but Turn A could get an argument, since society's age of majority in the setting is 15, and Loran is more mature than pretty much any other mech pilot I can think of. Kid may be 17 in episode 2, but he's already holding down multiple jobs.

And to round out the trilogy, Mazinger Infinity, like Char's Counterattack, is about the classic hero all grown up, while (if you want something good) Mazinkaizer SKL has professional soldiers (and amateur sociopaths) as the pilots of the titular mech, while the viewpoint character is the poor young woman who has to tell them what the mission is beyond "KILL".

Obsolete's a really recent contender. There's a couple episodes with child soldiers, since it's got a bit of an anthology format, but the closest things the show has to leads are veteran US Marines. It's a quick watch too. If you don't mind the CG, I highly recommend putting aside the 3 hours you'd need to watch all 12 episodes.

Sticking to Urobuchi, Expelled From Paradise's female lead is in her late 20s, but her physical body's a teen due to flash cloning, so that's another edge case. It's a decent watch either way, though.

The first Zone of the Enders game had a kid whinier than Shinji Ikari and Kira Yamato combined, but, like the sequel, the anime went a different route. The OVA has an adult test pilot in its tragic central role, and the TV show stars a middle aged space trucker, a guy whose kids are too old to be Universal Century protagonists. (Well, other than in the OVAs and movies. Thunderbolt's not my jam, but it's a hell of a looker.) Liked the OVA a lot, and from what I've heard, the series keeps up the standard.

If you want older than that, there's Roujin Z (about a bedridden senior secretly placed in a battle mech) and The Big O, which has a possibly-immortal Batman type as its hero. It gets trippy from time to time, but the visual style is a treat, and the banter is top class.

I always hesitate to recommend FLAG (because I don't think it's, you know, good) but if you want the realest of real robots, it's your go to. Professional soldiers and a tagalong journalist, all from the viewpoint of in-universe cameras.

On the other end, kicking reason to the curb, late series TTGL has young adult protagonists, and so does Promare, Trigger's recent full length film using some of the same aesthetics and staff. Lots of style, some good substance (in Gurren's case, at least), and all the giant robot punching you need.

That all enough to start you off?

GorfZaplen
Jan 20, 2012

ninjewtsu posted:

question: what are the good mecha animes that have, like, adult main characters/aren't about child soldiers

The J9 series is good for this. Adults with witty banter and plots that hew closer to Lupin than Mazinger (most of the time, they still gotta sell toys). I'm pretty sure Braiger has the first sex scene in television mecha? I've not finished it but Galvion is a show in this mold as well that just finished up subbing. It's famously unfinished though because the sponsor went bankrupt before the show ended!

Megazone 23, although they're young adults recently graduated from highschool so maybe not what you're looking for

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012

That's an awful lot of good recs, thanks guys! I'm thinking I'll probably give macros plus or patlabor a try, both series I've been meaning to check out for a while

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009

Zero_Tactility posted:

The theme song is also impossibly catchy.

baaa
baba baaa
baba baaa
baba balalalala

The Muffinlord
Mar 3, 2007

newbid stupie?
I mean in Gundam 0083 they all act like children...

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

ninjewtsu posted:

question: what are the good mecha animes that have, like, adult main characters/aren't about child soldiers

Big O

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

I didn't bother reading this page

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Sakurazuka posted:

I didn't bother reading this page

I guess you just lost all memories of reading this page, eh?

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



So, watching a last couple of shows to round out the year, and in between Dennou Coil (good, but the opening was slow, and the final reveals felt a bit rushed. The show felt best in the middle when it was just having weird adventures) and Nozaki-kun (funny and light, Seo is the best), I decided to go back in for more VOTOMs. I'd already watched Big Battle, which is a decent bit of action, which left me with Roots of Ambition as the nearest one-shot.

Root of Ambition is basically the most VOTOMS VOTOMS I've ever seen. That is to say, it's the VOTOMs you hear people talk about. Grit, everyone's amoral, Chirico can't die, no comic relief, good looking fights with mass carnage...

In summary, it's not very good.

Maybe that's unfair. The things I described were some of the things I was interested in for VOTOMs in the way people described it. The 70s science fiction high concept themes that later dominated the show were more of a surprise, sometimes welcome and sometimes not. Similarly, my opinion on the supporting cast was... mixed. I liked Gotho, Coconna, and Vanilla, but they didn't always feel like they fit with the tone of the show, and their plots had too much repetition at times to work for me. The subplot where Gotho ran a club on Space Vietnam was quite good, allowing them to play a role in the narrative that fit their characters and the world as shown while still providing comic relief, but the way they kept showing up out of nowhere after that felt awkward. (I'd bring up Fyana, but we're discussing characters. Holy crap Fyana was poorly done.) A show that ditched all that to zoom in on Chirico in a more mundane conflict could have been fun.

But Roots of Ambition screwed up pretty bad by giving us nothing to root for. Chirico doesn't get the inner monologues from the series to let us care about him as a person, and the way the OVA leans into his immortality makes it hard to raise the tension even aside from the prequel problems. The other characters aren't really characterized beyond "soldiers, don't want to die" except the government spy, who only gets "is also a spy" as further characterization. The way everyone uses the same models is even more of an issue than in the show proper, making it hard to keep track of fight scenes. And the way the show dives into the "everyone is awful" parts of the setting makes it hard to care that the villain is being even worse than the local average.

Shows like Iron Blooded Orphans or Mellowlink still focus on the grim, morally compromised nature of their heroes, but they try to highlight why our heroes stand out from the muck. Tekkadan's comradery makes us like them even as they make horrible decisions. Mellowlink's unshakable devotion to avenging his dead friends holds him above his enemies, who only care about themselves. And in VOTOMS proper, Chirico's attempts to rescue Fyana, his friendship with Gotho's crew, and his attempts to show mercy to his enemies all said that he was better than his surroundings.

Chirico still showed more mercy than his enemies in this, but he didn't do anything to make us like him. It was pretty much relying on people liking him from the show already. He also had this whole dumb thing with looking for information on his past that didn't make him any more compelling.

I really think I don't like Takahashi's stuff. Where my experience with Tomino anime has ups and downs, the only thing I've actually liked with Takahashi's name on it is Mellowlink, where he had reduced involvement.

GorfZaplen
Jan 20, 2012

Takahashi used to be an accountant at Mushipro before they recruited him for scriptwork which I think explains a lot about his dry style

GorfZaplen
Jan 20, 2012

I think he has a very keen eye for aesthetics, detail and presentation. He also has different interests than the majority of other directors in his common genres which is valuable for diversity reasons, like there's nothing else quite like Eiyuu Gaiden Mozaika out there even if it isn't great, but I'm glad he made it and it's still somewhat memorable for how weird it is. Even if his shows don't stick the landing they usually leave me with a lot of memorable images so I think he's worthwhile overall.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



GorfZaplen posted:

I think he has a very keen eye for aesthetics, detail and presentation. He also has different interests than the majority of other directors in his common genres which is valuable for diversity reasons, like there's nothing else quite like Eiyuu Gaiden Mozaika out there even if it isn't great, but I'm glad he made it and it's still somewhat memorable for how weird it is. Even if his shows don't stick the landing they usually leave me with a lot of memorable images so I think he's worthwhile overall.

Yeah, I think I can agree with that.

It's not like I regret watching the shows of his I've seen, or that there's nothing of value. There's memorable images, good moments, and interesting designs. And sometimes it even comes together.

The episode where Chirico and Fyana are on an empty ship, constantly bombarded by images and sounds from his past? That was really good! There's a lot to recommend.

I think, looking back, that some of my issues (as is often the case for people) come from expectations. VOTOMS was supposed to be Exactly My Thing, and the fact that it isn't makes its faults harder to ignore. A series being just okay with moments of greatness looks good when it's being compared to garbage like the anime of Linebarrels. But when it's supposed to be one of the all time greats, then a show of the exact same quality is much harder to like.

Anonymous Robot
Jun 1, 2007

Lost his leg in Robo War I
VOTOMS has a lot of shortcomings, being repetitive and overlong being the primary ones, but its final arc is sublime. The way the grim hard sci-fi show about amoral supersoldiers ends with the protagonist ponderously wandering the cavernous ruins of a dead empire, capped off with a scene of him slowly, quietly working to unmake the architect of the ideology that hailed him to his violent lifestyle, while it pitifully exhorts him to return?

That’s cinema baby!!

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine
Started watching Obsolete on YouTube and so far it's pretty neat, particularly since the apparent motives of the aliens in wanting to trade their robots for limestone seems silly at first but makes more sense once you do a bit of research, like how it's a substance that would probably be comparatively rare in the universe at large since it requires organic life for its formation(so unlike many things you couldn't just mine some asteroid or moon for it), but on Earth it's a ludicrously common substance(approximately 350,000,000 gigatons of the stuff, a gigaton being equal to one billion metric tons), and since there's already a bunch of mostly bald apes living on the planet mining the stuff might as well save yourself a bunch of time and labor and do some trading with the natives, everybody wins

Ethiser
Dec 31, 2011

drrockso20 posted:

Started watching Obsolete on YouTube and so far it's pretty neat, particularly since the apparent motives of the aliens in wanting to trade their robots for limestone seems silly at first but makes more sense once you do a bit of research, like how it's a substance that would probably be comparatively rare in the universe at large since it requires organic life for its formation(so unlike many things you couldn't just mine some asteroid or moon for it), but on Earth it's a ludicrously common substance(approximately 350,000,000 gigatons of the stuff, a gigaton being equal to one billion metric tons), and since there's already a bunch of mostly bald apes living on the planet mining the stuff might as well save yourself a bunch of time and labor and do some trading with the natives, everybody wins

Just wanted to post the official Bandai Namco Obsolete Votoms crossover opening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfc830vaKaw

Anonymous Robot
Jun 1, 2007

Lost his leg in Robo War I
Finished the Patlabor OVA today. Overall I really liked it! However, what surprised me is that the comedy works a lot better than the drama and action focused episodes.

I have only seen the OVA and the first 45 minutes or so of Patlabor the Movie 2, but both works share a predilection for introducing lots of characters without any real buildup/establishment, and having events unfold in multiple locations at once in a way that can be a little difficult to follow. At least in the OVA, it detracts from the impact of the script when you’re kinda playing catchup with what’s actually going on when the impactful character moments or shocking reveals occur.

I’m also surprised how rarely there is actually mecha action in the series, but that’s really fine, because the strength is in the cast and the comedy. It works well when they use the mecha for goofy action hijinks though!

Argas
Jan 13, 2008
SRW Fanatic




drrockso20 posted:

Started watching Obsolete on YouTube and so far it's pretty neat, particularly since the apparent motives of the aliens in wanting to trade their robots for limestone seems silly at first but makes more sense once you do a bit of research, like how it's a substance that would probably be comparatively rare in the universe at large since it requires organic life for its formation(so unlike many things you couldn't just mine some asteroid or moon for it), but on Earth it's a ludicrously common substance(approximately 350,000,000 gigatons of the stuff, a gigaton being equal to one billion metric tons), and since there's already a bunch of mostly bald apes living on the planet mining the stuff might as well save yourself a bunch of time and labor and do some trading with the natives, everybody wins

Didn't know that. It's rad. There's a lot of cool and interesting worldbuilding details to it that I love. The actual show...a bit more mixed but definitely enjoyable.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009
I thought Obsolete was kind of uneven (especially the CG) but I really enjoyed the sort of zoomed-out, societal-impact look it took at the whole aliens and mechs thing, which is something you basically never see in the genre.

I had no idea the second season had aired until now, though. Feels like basically no one knows the show exists, which is a real shame.

Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Jan 4, 2021

GorfZaplen
Jan 20, 2012

Anonymous Robot posted:

Finished the Patlabor OVA today. Overall I really liked it! However, what surprised me is that the comedy works a lot better than the drama and action focused episodes.

I have only seen the OVA and the first 45 minutes or so of Patlabor the Movie 2, but both works share a predilection for introducing lots of characters without any real buildup/establishment, and having events unfold in multiple locations at once in a way that can be a little difficult to follow. At least in the OVA, it detracts from the impact of the script when you’re kinda playing catchup with what’s actually going on when the impactful character moments or shocking reveals occur.

I’m also surprised how rarely there is actually mecha action in the series, but that’s really fine, because the strength is in the cast and the comedy. It works well when they use the mecha for goofy action hijinks though!

You should check out the first Patlabor movie, it's probably the tightest directed of all the Patlabor stuff and is a genuinely fun and entertaining action movie.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



So, Back Arrow started today, the new anime by Goro Taniguchi and Kazuki Nakashima.

Not even going to try give a verdict yet, since it's just kicking off, but it seems like it might turn out interesting. Got some of the same wild west thing as Gun X Sword, we get the protagonists and some likely antagonists introduced, and there's the first CG mech fights. (Not great, not terrible,

Seems like one of the show's core concepts is basically making text what normal shonen manga has as subtext. The mechs are basically made of the pilot's willpower, with their design and abilities being based around the convictions of whoever's using them, like "Never give up" making for a mech that can take a beating. (So a bunch of identical mook designs mean party line zealots for a faction) Whoever's convictions are stronger wins, and can take the ring that generates power armor after the loser dies.

The gimmick for our hero is that, since he's amnesiac, he has no convictions (as far as he knows) and thus, when he wins, nobody dies.

Brisk pace, bright colors, some decent jokes, cast doesn't seem awful so far, and we've got 24 episodes for things to play out. Figure I'm in as long as my schedule doesn't start overflowing.

And if it sucks, well, we're supposed to be getting Eva, Dynazenon, Hathaway, Megaton Mushashi, Sacks&Guns, Muv-Luv, the Eureka 7 Hi-Evolution finale, and Getter Robo Arc this year. With this much mecha going around, we can afford some losers. (Just... hopefully they won't all be losers. I'm not expecting much from some of these.)

wielder
Feb 16, 2008

"You had best not do that, Avatar!"
Yes, I'm enjoying Back Arrow. It's a silly show with a lighthearted mood, but the action is fun, the music is good and those in-universe concepts can be expanded in interesting ways.

Definitely not for those who are more inclined towards the Real Robot side of the genre, since it is clearly closer to Gun X Sword and Gurren Lagann in spirit.

Hell, even a little Xabungle influence for those who've seen that one (probably Tomino's most self-aware series).

By the way, they switched the OP and ED sequences around for this episode. It also seems likely they'll update them to reflect future events/characters showing up.

wielder fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Jan 9, 2021

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink

Schwarzwald posted:

It's been 15 years since I've seen the show, however. Maybe I'd have a better opinion after a rewatch.

Back in August there was a real cool discussion about Rahxephon (Rah Xephon? RahXephon? ??). At the time, my opinion was that it had a strong start and some really excellent moments, but was brought down by a weak middle. Classes are over for another month and I have some free time, so I figured I'd give it a rewatch and and record my thoughts on it here.

As this is an older show I will not be using spoiler tags. Reader beware.

EPs 1-3:

_____

These episodes have a heavy focus on gaze. It begins with Ayato looking at (a painting of) the back of a woman in a yellow dress. From here we cut to Ayato himself being watched by a woman with a video camera. Layers of voyeurism! We're frequently shown scenes through cameras and recordings. There's a strong shot in the first episode where you're viewing a scene directly through Ayato's eyes. This scene also suggests he sees things that other people can't. Is he perceptive, or delusional?


Are you listening to me, Ayato? Or were you looking at the woman in the yellow dress?

There's a lot on belief and deception, too. The media downplays an (alien? human?) attack on the city, even as hospitals overflow. The giant "dolem" robots that defend the city are blithely dismissed, and people deny seeing one mecha in particular that Ayato recalls. The government seems to be widely distrusted. It's maybe some kind of Juche state?

I dig Ayato's character. He's neither a dope nor a coward. When government agents ask Ayato to come with them, he resists. When Haruka rescues him only to ask Ayato to instead come with her, he refuses. He's not impressed when she offers to tell him "everything about the world," and his mistrust is justified when she then pulls a gun on him. He escapes with Reika (the woman in the yellow dress), but what he doesn't catch on to is that Reika is also leading him along!

(While supposedly his classmate, Reika might as well have stepped straight out of his painting, or out of his head. She accepts a soda can from him, but she's doesn't drink it. When they talk on the phone, we shown that her number is not in use. And when he mentions her to his friends at school, they don't recall her... up until they meet her themselves, after which of course they know Mishima Reika! How could they not?)


The Mu have you. Follow Mishima Reika. Knock knock, Ayato.

Reika leads him to a strange Dr. Who place that's bigger on the inside. It seemingly contains a whole rear end ocean, a separate sky, and a giant egg. Ayato falls into a trance and calls out "Rahxephon" as the egg hatches, revealing the Rahxephon robot. (Egg hatching motifs are prominent throughout.) As this happens, an illusion covering the city vanishes, revealing a Vaporwave Cyber UFO hovering above it.

(The "inside" ocean and sky are likewise an illusion. The Rahxephon is kept in a truly massive shrine, but it's in no way it's own world. When it escapes it tears a black scar in the "sky.")


If you have blue blood you'll wake up in Tokyo Jupiter and believe whatever the Mu want you to believe. If you have red blood, you see how deep the Reika hole goes.

_____

A lot of the humor just sucks. A girl from class will tease Ayato and both of their faces briefly become superdeformed. Ayato will pratfall into a womans butt, and then the show will cut into still shots of both of them having ////// embarrassed faces ////// and then afterwards they're both so upset with each other and have big frowny faces >:| even though no ones really to blame.

(The woman is also 12 years his senior and very obviously into him. Did someone on staff have a thing?)

I remember not caring for the humor when I first saw the show in... 04, 05? and its not any more charming on rewatch. In addition to clashing heavily with the tone it dates the series. This style barely survived the end of Love Hina, and this was two years past that.


The ever-so-slightly-deformed cute cat is good, though.
_____

Some things I haven't mentioned: a focus on media (shots of people listening to music, or a book title being in focus for a few seconds, etc) and watches (in particular, people looking at watches). There's a lot of dream imagery, and one of the dolems placates a violent Rahxephon by lulling it to sleep with a song. It's maybe implied that Ayato is unconsciously altering reality?

Ayato first boarding the Rahxephon is a very Yuusha Raideen-esque sequence, and the Rahxephon itself a very Raideen-esque design. Reika's design is almost certainly modeled after Mari's: she wears her red dress but in the colors of her yellow miniskirt.



Beyond those visual ques, the show leans much more heavily on the Matrix and Eva than it does on any monster-of-the-week from the 70s.



_____

Episode 3 ends with Ayato and Haruka safely out of the illusory world of Tokyo Jupiter. If I remember correctly, the show changes style for a few episodes afterwards, backing away from all the paranoia stuff. So I'll leave off here.

Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Jan 14, 2021

ACES CURE PLANES
Oct 21, 2010



ngl, i'm super excited for this, mainly from being an absolutely huge RahXephon fan. To the point where it's one of all of four shows i own. I first got into it on the free anime on demand cable channel thing I stumbled across a million billion years ago when I was just starting to branch out beyond the basic poo poo, and found the movie and it kicked something off in me. Looking forward to the rest of the recap.

That being said, man, starting with the movie does not prep you for seeing the main series.

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

Schwarzwald posted:

Back in August there was a real cool discussion about Rahxephon (Rah Xephon? RahXephon? ??). At the time, my opinion was that it had a strong start and some really excellent moments, but was brought down by a weak middle. Classes are over for another month and I have some free time, so I figured I'd give it a rewatch and and record my thoughts on it here.

As this is an older show I will not be using spoiler tags. Reader beware.

EPs 1-3:

_____

These episodes have a heavy focus on gaze. It begins with Ayato looking at (a painting of) the back of a woman in a yellow dress. From here we cut to Ayato himself being watched by a woman with a video camera. Layers of voyeurism! We're frequently shown scenes through camera's and recordings. There's a strong shot in the first episode where you're viewing a scene directly through Ayato's eyes. This scene also suggests he sees things that other people can't. Is he perceptive, or delusional?


Are you listening to me, Ayato? Or were you looking at the woman in the yellow dress?

There's a lot on belief and deception, too. The media downplays an (alien? human?) attack on the city, even as hospitals overflow. The giant "dolem" robots that defend the city are blithely dismissed, and people deny seeing one particular mecha that Ayato remembers. The government seem to be widely distrusted. It's maybe some kind of Juche state?

I dig Ayato's character. He's neither a dope nor a coward. When government agents ask Ayato to come with them, he resists. When (Haruka rescues him only to ask Ayato to instead come with her, he refuses. He's not impressed when she offers to tell him "everything about the world," and his mistrust is justified when she then pulls a gun on him. He escapes with Reika (the woman in the yellow dress), but what he doesn't catch on to is that Reika is also leading him along!

(While supposedly his classmate, Reika might as well have stepped straight out of his painting, or out of his head. She accepts a soda can from him, but she's doesn't drink it. When they talk on the phone, we shown that her number is not in use. And when he mentions her to his friends at school, they don't recall her... up until they meet her themselves, after which of course they know Mishima Reika! How could they not?)


The Mu have you. Follow Mishima Reika. Knock knock, Ayato.

Reika leads him to a strange Dr. Who place that's bigger on the inside. It seemingly contains a whole rear end ocean, a separate sky, and a giant egg. Ayato falls into a trance and calls out "Rahxephon" as the egg hatches, revealing the Rahxephon robot. (Egg hatching motifs are prominent throughout.) As this happens, an illusion covering the city vanishes, revealing a Vaporwave Cyber UFO hovering above it.

(The "inside" ocean and sky are likewise an illusion. The Rahxephon is kept in a truly massive shrine, but it's in no way it's own world. When it escapes it tears a black scar in the "sky.")


If you have blue blood you'll wake up in Tokyo Jupiter and believe whatever the Mu want you to believe. If you have red blood, you see how deep the Reika hole goes.

_____

A lot of the humor just sucks. A girl from class will tease Ayato and both of their faces briefly become superdeformed. Ayato will pratfall into a womans butt, and then the show will cut into still shots of both of them having ////// embarrassed faces ////// and then afterwards they're both so upset with each other and have big frowny faces >:| even though no ones really to blame.

(The woman is also 12 years his senior and very obviously into him. Did someone on staff have a thing?)

I remember not caring for this when I first saw the show in... 04, 05? and its not any more charming on rewatch. In addition to clashing heavily with the tone it dates the series. This style barely survived the end of Love Hina, and this was two years past that.


The ever-so-slightly-deformed cute cat is good, though.
_____

Some things I haven't mentioned: a focus on media (shots of people listening to music, or a book title being in focus for a few seconds, etc) and watches (in particular, people looking at watches). There's a lot of dream imagery, and one of the dolems placates a violent Rahxephon by lulling it to sleep with a song. It's maybe implied that Ayato is unconsciously altering reality?

Ayato first boarding the Rahxephon is a very Yuusha Raideen-esque sequence, and the Rahxephon itself a very Raideen-esque design. Reika's design is almost certainly modeled after Mari's: she wears her red dress but in the colors of her yellow miniskirt.



Beyond those visual ques, the show leans much more heavily on the Matrix and Eva than it does on any monster-of-the-week from the 70s.



_____

Episode 3 ends with Ayato and Haruka safely out of the illusory world of Tokyo Jupiter. If I remember correctly, the show changes style for a few episodes afterwards, backing away from all the paranoia stuff. So I'll leave off here.

The Raideen connections are very much intentional, to the point that when RahXephon made it's SRW debut it was in a game that also had Raideen on the roster

Also it's funny how Raideen gets rebooted every now and then and every time it results in very wildly and weirdly different shows

wielder
Feb 16, 2008

"You had best not do that, Avatar!"
There's an early episode of Rahxephon where they seemingly skip a whole sequence or scene between episodes and only give you a summary.

That part was confusing. I'd probably understand it better now during a second watch, but it always stuck with me as a very "WTF?" moment.

Caphi
Jan 6, 2012

INCREDIBLE
How many times has it been rebooted? I remember REIDEEN happened and everyone forgot it pretty much instantly.

wielder
Feb 16, 2008

"You had best not do that, Avatar!"

Caphi posted:

How many times has it been rebooted? I remember REIDEEN happened and everyone forgot it pretty much instantly.

I believe it's been rebooted at least twice, but there's probably some obscure one that I can't recall at all.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Caphi posted:

How many times has it been rebooted? I remember REIDEEN happened and everyone forgot it pretty much instantly.

Raideen the Superior too.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007
i thought the early cg worked pretty well in reideen to make it seem unearthly, and that was even what they were going for. that is the only thing i remember about it.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink

Caphi posted:

How many times has it been rebooted? I remember REIDEEN happened and everyone forgot it pretty much instantly.

This is a hard question because it really defend how you'd define a reboot. Raideen the Superior and REIDEEN are nominally reboots. Rahxephon is kind of/sort of a reinterpretation of the ancient alien stuff from the '75 show, although it draws inspiration from so many places that its hard to call it "just" a Raideen reboot.

There's a very real sense in which you can argue that Combattler, Voltes, and even Mobile Suit Gundam were all Reideen sequels. Prince Sharkin is a character in all four!

...thinking on it, Rahxephon doesn't have a Sharkin analog. What a missed opportunity — even REIDEEN had a Sharkin!


Edit: if we are gonna talk about the '75 Raideen then I'm gonna self promote my video essay.

Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Jan 14, 2021

Justin_Brett
Oct 23, 2012

GAMERDOME put down LOSER

Caphi posted:

How many times has it been rebooted? I remember REIDEEN happened and everyone forgot it pretty much instantly.

That's probably because all-caps Reideen has barely anything to do with OG Reideen in tone or design. Some of its attacks are the same but the robot itself and the plot justifying those moves are so different they may as well have come up with a different name. I watched it a while back and I never thought it was a particularly bad show, but even comparing their openings you can tell it's not really a full reboot or maybe even meant to be one.

Kingtheninja
Jul 29, 2004

"You're the best looking guy here."
Is back arrow streaming anywhere? Looks pretty neat.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Kingtheninja posted:

Is back arrow streaming anywhere? Looks pretty neat.

It's on Funimation in the US, and it might be on Animelab.

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MarsDragon
Apr 27, 2010

"You've all learned something very important here: there are things in this world you just can't change!"

Schwarzwald posted:

Edit: if we are gonna talk about the '75 Raideen then I'm gonna self promote my video essay.

This is a great and informative video, thank you for making it. I love getting context for all these old shows.

I think you mentioned having plans for others once upon a time? Or did I hallucinate that?

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