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Zugzwang posted:Yes but have you considered that in America, we have freedom? Ah yes, the sweet freedom to choke on a ventilator nozzle
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Jan 10, 2021 21:11
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Did anything significant ever come of the "next minktation" or is it just one among probably 20 new strains spreading and brewing up in the North American Plaguelands?
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Jan 10, 2021 21:14
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redgubbinz posted:Did anything significant ever come of the "next minktation" or is it just one among probably 20 new strains spreading and brewing up in the North American Plaguelands? From what I understand, there's very little genomic sequencing going on in the US so there's not enough data to say one way or another
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Jan 10, 2021 21:22
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redgubbinz posted:Did anything significant ever come of the "next minktation" or is it just one among probably 20 new strains spreading and brewing up in the North American Plaguelands? Compare that to 10,209 genomes for B.1.1.7 (the UK strain) and 352 for 501Y.V2 (the South Africa strain). Again, there's obvious bias there in differential rates of sequencing between countries, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ gay picnic defence posted:Ah yes, the sweet freedom to choke on a ventilator nozzle 
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Jan 10, 2021 21:28
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freebooter posted:Every country is capable of doing this. Finding it difficult to imagine something happening is not the same as it being impossible. This is from a few pages ago, but many countries don’t even have the resources to do enough testing, let alone any kind of containment or contact tracing. Nigeria and Indonesia, two of the worlds most populous countries, have positivity rates that fluctuate between 15-30%. The same is true for most of Latin America and Africa, and for many countries there’s not even any data. Maybe the Australians can go outside and enjoy the covid-free summer instead of making us all dumber with posts like this.
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Jan 10, 2021 21:35
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Quote not edit whoops
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Jan 10, 2021 21:35
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Starks posted:This is from a few pages ago, but many countries don’t even have the resources to do enough testing, let alone any kind of containment or contact tracing. Nigeria and Indonesia, two of the worlds most populous countries, have positivity rates that fluctuate between 15-30%. The same is true for most of Latin America and Africa, and for many countries there’s not even any data. Good old capitalism killing local sustainability If only the rich would lose their heads for unleashing this on the world at once.
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Jan 10, 2021 21:41
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Rutibex posted:don't worry the South Africa strain is also spreading, and that one is totally more deadly to youth! Uh does somebody have a source for it being more deadly for kids? My wife and I have both been vaccinated, she just got her 2nd shot and I will soon, but we'll have to change our calculus if this is potentially deadly for kids now. It's not something we've had to worry about yet thank God, I can't imagine if this had been a kid killer. I bet they'd be doing something about it now.
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Jan 10, 2021 21:42
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gay picnic defence posted:I thought the point of brexit was to slow trade with its neighbours though..? The point of brexit is to poo poo on foreign looking people. The conservative mind isn't a deep one.
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Jan 10, 2021 21:45
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D-Pad posted:Uh does somebody have a source for it being more deadly for kids? My wife and I have both been vaccinated, she just got her 2nd shot and I will soon, but we'll have to change our calculus if this is potentially deadly for kids now. It's not something we've had to worry about yet thank God, I can't imagine if this had been a kid killer. I bet they'd be doing something about it now. I can't imagine what calculus one would need to change for their kids in light of that, that they shouldn't be doing already.
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Jan 10, 2021 21:59
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There Bias Two posted:I can't imagine what calculus one would need to change for their kids in light of that, that they shouldn't be doing already. You can't imagine the gvt message for the part year?
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Jan 10, 2021 22:09
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There Bias Two posted:I can't imagine what calculus one would need to change for their kids in light of that, that they shouldn't be doing already. One is in school the same as the majority of the kids in this country. This thing hasn't been killing kids with rare exceptions. If there is a strain deadly to kids I'll take him out of school and I would expect the government would close the schools again anyway but who knows.
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Jan 10, 2021 22:33
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gay picnic defence posted:Ah yes, the sweet freedom to
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Jan 10, 2021 22:33
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2021/jan/10/one-in-five-have-had-coronavirus-in-england-new-modelling-says Herd immunity here we come! Just another 250,000 or so deaths to get there 
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Jan 10, 2021 22:35
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Bardeh posted:https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2021/jan/10/one-in-five-have-had-coronavirus-in-england-new-modelling-says o'er the top, boys!
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Jan 10, 2021 22:39
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Starks posted:This is from a few pages ago, but many countries don’t even have the resources to do enough testing, let alone any kind of containment or contact tracing. Nigeria and Indonesia, two of the worlds most populous countries, have positivity rates that fluctuate between 15-30%. The same is true for most of Latin America and Africa, and for many countries there’s not even any data. And yet all those countries are doing better than the US and the UK Think you may have missed the point there, champ
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Jan 10, 2021 22:45
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:And yet all those countries are doing better than the US and the UK The veracity of that statement aside, the post I quoted clearly said “every country”
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Jan 10, 2021 22:46
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Starks posted:The veracity of that statement aside, the post I quoted clearly said “every country” I went back and looked and the post they were responding to was specifically talking about "meaningfully shut down travel and enforce quarantines on international arrivals" which every country IS capable of doing but you strawmanned some other poo poo in there and yelled about that instead
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Jan 10, 2021 22:50
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:I went back and looked and the post they were responding to was specifically talking about "meaningfully shut down travel and enforce quarantines on international arrivals" which every country IS capable of doing but you strawmanned some other poo poo in there and yelled about that instead Hope he sees this man. Shoot your shot
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Jan 10, 2021 22:56
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Starks posted:The veracity of that statement aside, the post I quoted clearly said “every country” Every country is indeed capable of closing their borders. It's inherent in the very concept of being a country!
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Jan 11, 2021 00:40
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It's amazing to me that even with the very diverse array of countries that have handled COVID well - islands or landbound, democracies and dictatorships, large and small - there's an endless litany of excuses for the failed states of the West.
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Jan 11, 2021 00:41
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freebooter posted:Every country is indeed capable of closing their borders. It's inherent in the very concept of being a country! Every country did close their borders you dumb island anglo, and they did it before Australia for the most part. It just doesn’t work as well when there isn’t 3 weeks of ocean separating you and everyone else. It is absolutely hilarious that you have adopted this unique form of nationalism where you reject the idea that a country can have an inherent advantage in defeating the pandemic, and that it’s all because of your big brains instead. Starks fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Jan 11, 2021 |
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Jan 11, 2021 01:10
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Also lmao that you simultaneously complained about travellers bringing the plague in while saying how easy it is to keep borders closed. Just a real genius guy on here
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Jan 11, 2021 01:15
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What about closing borders "doesn't work as well"? Were people carrying the virus entering the country even though the border was supposed to be closed?
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Jan 11, 2021 01:15
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I think you will find that very few people enter Australia by boat compared to the number that fly in, and planes certainly don't take 3 weeks (though it might feel like it during the flight) Also, by boat, the United States is much further away from China than Australia. ymgve fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Jan 11, 2021 |
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Jan 11, 2021 01:17
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This is a pretty funny exchange.
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Jan 11, 2021 01:18
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The real thing is that in addition to closing the border to stop new cases coming in, Australia was able to successfully get a lid on internal community transmission. Citizens in other countries should ask themselves why their governments were unwilling to do that (remembering that were all able to do it, they just didn't want to).
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Jan 11, 2021 01:18
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Are these posts the long term negative effects of having covid I keep hearing about?
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Jan 11, 2021 01:22
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Starks posted:Every country did close their borders you dumb island anglo, and they did it before Australia for the most part. It just doesn’t work as well when there isn’t 3 weeks of ocean separating you and everyone else. Community transmission from work, school and personal and public gatherings is responsible for almost all infection past patient zero, and that has nothing to do with anything you're talking about. Why are you being such a loving dipshit about this?
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Jan 11, 2021 01:26
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Jabor posted:The real thing is that in addition to closing the border to stop new cases coming in, Australia was able to successfully get a lid on internal community transmission. Citizens in other countries should ask themselves why their governments were unwilling to do that (remembering that were all able to do it, they just didn't want to). Sure, which brings us back to: Starks posted:This is from a few pages ago, but many countries don't even have the resources to do enough testing, let alone any kind of containment or contact tracing. Nigeria and Indonesia, two of the worlds most populous countries, have positivity rates that fluctuate between 15-30%. The same is true for most of Latin America and Africa, and for many countries there's not even any data.
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Jan 11, 2021 01:29
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Starks posted:Every country did close their borders you dumb island anglo, and they did it before Australia for the most part. It just doesn’t work as well when there isn’t 3 weeks of ocean separating you and everyone else. Did the UK ever close their border? I thought it’s been open slather from the start. Anyway the distance to a country doesn’t matter because people fly these days. Vietnam shares a land border with China and still managed to get on top of it despite not being a wealthy western country with massive resources for contact tracing.
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Jan 11, 2021 01:45
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Jabor posted:What about closing borders "doesn't work as well"? Were people carrying the virus entering the country even though the border was supposed to be closed? This is what happened in the US. They “closed the borders” and were one of the first to do so but iirc it was only direct flights from China that were stopped, flights full of Chinese that had stopovers weren’t checked and in the meantime the east coast was getting seeded by infected travellers from Italy. You need to close the borders in a competent way and actually enforce it or it’s just a token gesture. Which brings us back to the incompetence of most western governments in managing the pandemic.
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Jan 11, 2021 01:49
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gay picnic defence posted:Did the UK ever close their border? I thought it’s been open slather from the start. I don't understand why everyone thinks I'm talking about tourists. The vast majority of imports arrive in Australia by sea. They had a rule that cargo ships cannot dock if they have been to another country in the last 14 days. That is a huge advantage compared to a place like Canada where we had tens of thousands of trucks coming in every day from the States to deliver essential goods. That doesn't mean Canada didn't gently caress up its pandemic response, but it certainly means it's harder and more costly to achieve the same results. I agree that China and Vietnam are the models for a good pandemic response. That's my entire reason for bullying freebooter, who was bragging about how "actually, yeah, you can beat the virus and you don't have to be dictatorial weld-the-doors-closed China to do it". Australia's approach would not be enough in most countries. They have an inherent advantage that allows them to be less strict than most countries would need to be to get rid of it. Starks fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Jan 11, 2021 |
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Jan 11, 2021 02:12
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Starks posted:I don't understand why everyone thinks I'm talking about tourists. The vast majority of imports arrive in Australia by sea. They had a rule that cargo ships cannot dock if they have been to another country in the last 14 days. That is a huge advantage compared to a place like Canada where we had tens of thousands of trucks coming in every day from the States to deliver essential goods. That doesn't mean Canada didn't gently caress up its pandemic response, but it certainly means it's harder and more costly to achieve the same results. No. The wildly out of control infection is a failure to prevent community transmission. It has very little to do with reintroduction. How do you not understand this?
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Jan 11, 2021 02:32
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Blitter posted:No, you dopey gently caress, the wildly out of control infection is a failure to prevent community transmission. It has very little to do with reintroduction. How do you not understand this? I understand that. Please stop trying to troll me by making up stuff I said. Thanks
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Jan 11, 2021 02:35
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Starks posted:I understand that. Please stop trying to troll me by making up stuff I said. Thanks Wait, what? You're saying that there is a huge disadvantage for countries like Canada - and its true, in the sense that if we had reduced community transmission to 0, we would have problems of reintroduction from say, truckers and other travellers. That will be something of a happy future problem, and only a significant problem at that point. Do you know what community transmission means?
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Jan 11, 2021 02:47
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Starks posted:I don't understand why everyone thinks I'm talking about tourists. The vast majority of imports arrive in Australia by sea. They had a rule that cargo ships cannot dock if they have been to another country in the last 14 days. That is a huge advantage compared to a place like Canada where we had tens of thousands of trucks coming in every day from the States to deliver essential goods. That doesn't mean Canada didn't gently caress up its pandemic response, but it certainly means it's harder and more costly to achieve the same results. I don’t think there is a rule about not docking, crew just aren’t allowed off the ship. In any case a vast amount of freight comes in by air as well and there’s never been an issue with that. Aircrew on incoming flights are quarantined just like everyone else. Land transport might be more difficult but I’m sure there’s ways to manage this as Vietnam seems to have. It’s less of an issue than tourism though, you’ve got one driver per truck rather than 100s on a single plane so the chances of bringing the virus into the country are vastly reduced. FWIW Vietnam never had a lockdown so it is certainly possible to manage the pandemic without draconian measures, or a massive expenditure of resources. Maybe government competence needs to be discussed along with ICU beds, medication and money as resources countries had available to deploy.
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Jan 11, 2021 02:49
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Blitter posted:Wait, what? You're saying that there is a huge disadvantage for countries like Canada - and its true, in the sense that if we had reduced community transmission to 0, we would have problems of reintroduction from say, truckers and other travellers. That will be something of a happy future problem, and only a significant problem at that point. Jesus christ man. I originally said that most countries don't have the resources to deal with community transmission the way Australia did. The poster I was arguing with said that no, he actually meant that every country can close its borders just like Australia did and keep the virus out, so now we are talking about that. I accepted his premise and chose not to talk about community transmission. So now I am discussing the situation from the perspective of whether Australia also has an advantage in keeping the virus out altogether, in addition to the advantage they have of being a rich country that has the resources to be able to deal with community transmission. And it sounds like you agree with me because that is exactly the hypothetical you describe. So thanks! But I shouldn't have to give you a play-by-play when the posts are right here on the page. Do not try to strawman by saying Canada is also a rich country because that example was specifically brought up to discuss the border question. I already acknowledged that Canada hosed up its response and there's no excuse for them not doing more contact tracing.
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Jan 11, 2021 03:01
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Just wanted to say, thanks thread for the respirator recommendations. I ordered the 3M 6200 and 6300 (wasn't sure about sizing) from Digi-Key and both fit pretty well. With the P100 cartridges, I couldn't smell the smelly salmon my wife was baking, nor could I smell Febreze, so I imagine the fit is good. Now I just need to cover the valve on the front and I'll be good to go. 
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Jan 11, 2021 03:08
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Between reading the past few pages and Covid, I think I would’ve preferred the virus. In other news, whoever said the pommy mutant virus wouldn’t last in the Aussie summer heat was right. Brisbane’s lockdown is over as of 6pm tonight as we had 3 days of 0 cases. I must say, I’m really impressed with how compliant everyone was with it, the streets were absolutely empty from the photos I saw. Less impressed with tonnes of people leaving before the 6pm Friday curfew, but wankers will be wankers. We still have to wear masks for the next 10 days and there’s some other capacity restrictions, but it’s a good step forward and maybe I’ll still get to go see the Van Gogh exhibit interstate in March. 
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Jan 11, 2021 03:24
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