|
ilkhan posted:Any mods that just remove or severely lower the time? Yeah, at least four
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 15:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 14:29 |
|
|
Yami Fenrir posted:Yeah and that part is fine. What's not fine is the garbage fire that is demotion time. And then they nerfed some of the ways to lower it in vanilla so you couldn't get it to zero!
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 15:45
|
|
|
When do people run into demotion times issues? For me it's very rare, maybe twice per game. This is not an "I don't have this issue so it's not an issue" post I'm wondering if it's my playstyle or if it's the couple of times a game that's annoying people.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 16:08
|
|
|
Splicer posted:When do people run into demotion times issues? For me it's very rare, maybe twice per game. This is not an "I don't have this issue so it's not an issue" post I'm wondering if it's my playstyle or if it's the couple of times a game that's annoying people. It's usually not a big problem for me but it did hit me hard one time when I had a repugnant species and got the Droids tech. Suddenly any workers who produced amenities were replaced by robots and I had a lot of unemployed and open jobs at the same time. If I didn't have resettlement, it would have been a much larger problem than it was, but it was still pretty annoying.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 16:20
|
|
|
Splicer posted:When do people run into demotion times issues? For me it's very rare, maybe twice per game. This is not an "I don't have this issue so it's not an issue" post I'm wondering if it's my playstyle or if it's the couple of times a game that's annoying people. It's most often an issue because of immigration, when some random refugee or whatever takes a specialist job for whatever reason. Because that's a thing that happens. It irks me more than it should because it's literally an issue that doesn't need to exist. It's not a drawback of the job system or anything, it literally just exists to annoy the player. It's even more egregious because Gestalts just straight up don't have the issue AT ALL.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 16:22
|
|
|
Yami Fenrir posted:It's most often an issue because of immigration, when some random refugee or whatever takes a specialist job for whatever reason. Because that's a thing that happens. The job management is so stupid. Either new arrivals shouldn't be able to take a specialist job that's already occupied, or there should be a huge xenophobe attraction from immigrants taking are jerbs.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 16:26
|
|
|
I've seen some weird effects from demotion time, like if you have a research lab and you turn it into an alloy plant, it'll promote two workers to specialists to man the alloy plant, and make the two researchers unemployable for five years. Everyone should be playing Shared Burdens every game anyway like me so demotion time's not an issue
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 17:00
|
|
|
Gort posted:I've seen some weird effects from demotion time, like if you have a research lab and you turn it into an alloy plant, it'll promote two workers to specialists to man the alloy plant, and make the two researchers unemployable for five years. Making Shared Burden a civic tax sounds like incredibad game design.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 17:07
|
|
|
Hits me when I take a planet that I plan to purge but have land appropriation on. I still hate having too many planets, but being able to turn on ai and have it not gently caress up everything with next update might fix it too. Sector ai is still dumb. I just want a sector for everything I grab during a specific war.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 17:08
|
|
|
Gort posted:I've seen some weird effects from demotion time, like if you have a research lab and you turn it into an alloy plant, it'll promote two workers to specialists to man the alloy plant, and make the two researchers unemployable for five years. I haven't had that problem with building replacement but I do fairly consistently have a problem with the first capital building upgrade causing a mid-tier unemployed pop for no reason I can understand. I typically follow that up immediately with another building so it's never really a problem. Shared Burdens is great but I hate democracy. e: ilkhan posted:Hits me when I take a planet that I plan to purge but have land appropriation on. I still hate having too many planets, but being able to turn on ai and have it not gently caress up everything with next update might fix it too. Sector ai is still dumb. I just want a sector for everything I grab during a specific war. Land appropriation being on by default is one of the worst things about this game. I always forget to turn it off. Vienna Circlejerk fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Jan 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 17:09
|
|
|
Vienna Circlejerk posted:I haven't had that problem with building replacement but I do fairly consistently have a problem with the first capital building upgrade causing a mid-tier unemployed pop for no reason I can understand. I typically follow that up immediately with another building so it's never really a problem. Oh yeah also this. Edict capacity is so much more valuable than edict length, the democracy bonus is a joke. So glad they're changing that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 17:13
|
|
|
Yami Fenrir posted:Making Shared Burden a civic tax sounds like incredibad game design. It's a "not being a garbage person" tax
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 17:13
|
|
|
Gort posted:It's a "not being a garbage person" tax I can be a perfectly good person in an Imperial nation, thank you very much. Also conflating balance with RP is never good.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 17:15
|
|
|
Shared Burdens should be allowed with Dictatorial authority. I want to play Space Stalin.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 17:18
|
|
|
Yami Fenrir posted:I can be a perfectly good person in an Imperial nation, thank you very much. having inefficiencies in your society because your government is poo poo, is good, actually stellaris has had issues with authoritarianism being strictly better for a long time and it is kind of depressing. accept that you are going to at least face some downsides for being the bad guy
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 17:23
|
|
|
Jazerus posted:having inefficiencies in your society because your government is poo poo, is good, actually Instead of making one or two selectively bad, how about we make all of them good? This is a poo poo argument, accept it. Being more annoying for one reason or another not a balance concern, it's just annoying. Yami Fenrir fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Jan 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 17:36
|
|
|
well all that being said, pop demotion time is not a thing that makes sense as a downside to authoritarianism. the emperor can just order all of those scientists into the fields after all
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 17:39
|
|
|
Pop promotion/demotion seems to work pretty badly overall. I don't think it's had much impact on gameplay for me but it's definitely annoying to see red unemployment icons just because some merchant is too good to work in a power plant. I don't see what it's supposed to do, aside from creating a penalty for destroying buildings or relocating your specialized facilities to another planet. I think it would make more sense for demotion to be instant, but have a happiness penalty applied to the pop that lasts for the time the unemployment would have lasted instead. So if you decide pull a space NAFTA for some reason, you get a pretty unhappy planet to try to mollify with bread and circuses.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 18:02
|
|
|
Vienna Circlejerk posted:Shared Burdens should be allowed with Dictatorial authority. I want to play Space Stalin.  I just want to be Space Dad, telling people what to do because I know best. I'd like it if the base ethics were more impactful, and most civics were based around messing with that. Like a civic that turns your Spiritualist empire into robot worshippers.Jazerus posted:well all that being said, pop demotion time is not a thing that makes sense as a downside to authoritarianism. the emperor can just order all of those scientists into the fields after all Demotion mechanics should be linked to living standards. Utopian Abundance has 0 demotion penalties because who cares? Academic Privilege though, dropping from specialist to worker should make for some very pissed off pops. Splicer fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Jan 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 18:11
|
|
|
Yami Fenrir posted:I can be a perfectly good person in an Imperial nation, thank you very much. citation needed
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 18:11
|
|
|
I think it would be unfortunate to sacrifice gameplay mechanics and mechanical depth for the of "This is more realistic in terms of political scope" and it's one of the issues I've always had with Stellaris. It wants you to be able to do the bad things, and it wants to make sure you know they're bad things. Which is why I so much prefer Sword of the Stars. A tiny little 12 person studio or whatever crapped out better lore than Paradox managed, for my taste. Why? Because it's a game about conquering that doesn't nag me as I conquer. It doesn't care. It's just a thing for me to play. Stellaris really wants me to know that the delicious pop that is being eaten alive next to the planet that is nerve stapled while there's an immigrant genocide to a xenophobe and then someone fires a death star to commit mass planetary murder as an immigrant crisis looms in the space UN. Does that sound fun? I find it so tedious, and it's matched to a game that has basically 0 flavor for the species and very limited immersion during a run. If Stellaris wanted to be an atrocity sim (why would you make this design, for fucks sake) I Guess they could lean into it further. I would hope they would lean more towards the "gameplay" and less on "morality tales" side of things.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 18:20
|
|
|
Vienna Circlejerk posted:Pop promotion/demotion seems to work pretty badly overall. I don't think it's had much impact on gameplay for me but it's definitely annoying to see red unemployment icons just because some merchant is too good to work in a power plant. I don't see what it's supposed to do, aside from creating a penalty for destroying buildings or relocating your specialized facilities to another planet. Holy poo poo you just solved stellaris. Like, why not just... this. You can deal with unhappy pops. You can't deal with an arbitary "gently caress you timer" on pop demotion because some rear end in a top hat immigrant stole mah job.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 18:20
|
|
|
Vienna Circlejerk posted:Shared Burdens should be allowed with Dictatorial authority. I want to play Space Stalin.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 18:31
|
|
|
Ham Sandwiches posted:I think it would be unfortunate to sacrifice gameplay mechanics and mechanical depth for the of "This is more realistic in terms of political scope" and it's one of the issues I've always had with Stellaris. Different strokes, but that is one of the things I really liked about Stellaris. Each species’ lore and flavor is filled in by how they play and the choices they make, not from entries in the manual. There are a lot of levers and features that only exist to provide this type of differentiation. Status of Living options, war doctrines, leader traits etc.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 18:36
|
|
|
Vengarr posted:Different strokes, but that is one of the things I really liked about Stellaris. Each species’ lore and flavor is filled in by how they play and the choices they make, not from entries in the manual. There are a lot of levers and features that only exist to provide this type of differentiation. Status of Living options, war doctrines, leader traits etc. Stellaris has so few mechanics during a playthrough that putting mechanics in the game and having that button be considered an "atrocity" requires either engaging with the morality tale that implies or it means not pushing that button. I would prefer to have the mechanics in the game not contain that inherent tension. I guess some people prefer it that way. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 18:41
|
|
|
Vengarr posted:Different strokes, but that is one of the things I really liked about Stellaris. Each species’ lore and flavor is filled in by how they play and the choices they make, not from entries in the manual. There are a lot of levers and features that only exist to provide this type of differentiation. Status of Living options, war doctrines, leader traits etc. The problem is you never really see any of them. They're click and forget and you can't see them on others at all for the most part.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 18:41
|
|
|
Ham Sandwiches posted:I think it would be unfortunate to sacrifice gameplay mechanics and mechanical depth for the of "This is more realistic in terms of political scope" and it's one of the issues I've always had with Stellaris.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 19:24
|
|
|
That is kind of my general read on Stellaris as well. I think it's fun to mess around with but it definitely has an identity problem.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 19:27
|
|
|
Yami Fenrir posted:You can't deal with an arbitary "gently caress you timer" on pop demotion because some rear end in a top hat immigrant stole mah job. I think there are some real missed opportunities with pop happiness and ethics given the work that seems to have been put into calculating these on a per pop basis. Were you demoted because an alien with better traits took your research job? Happiness penalty for X years plus Y% chance of xenophobe shift right then. Did a robot take your medic job because you're, well, kinda repugnant? Y% chance of spiritualist shift. That said, it also tilts things more toward planet micromanagement, which I have really mixed feelings about. When I have 6 planets and nothing else to do, it's really fun. When I have 20 planets and/or I'm trying to fight a war, it ranges from being a nuisance to absolutely sucking to the point where I'll just quit. Part of me wants to play Cities: Skylines in space and part of me wants to play EU4 in space.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 19:35
|
|
|
Splicer posted:Stellaris's problem is that the devs don't know what it is. Is it an RTS? If so, pops getting mad at you for genociding things should be a global modifier of some kind and modeling individual pops is completely unnecessary, but combat should be a million times more interesting with much more variety. Is it a game about RPing custom made empires? Then the RP choices should have much bigger impacts, and larger empires should be regularly tearing themselves apart due to internal pressures (and you get to pick which resultant empire you control). Where we are is a weird frankenstein of the two. The RTS isn't fun because there's a bunch of weird RP stuff getting in the way of painting the map. The RP stuff isn't fun because they can't put in anything that gets too far in the way of painting the map. Yeah not to chain post on this topic but I wanted to give props here, this is spot on and concise. Very well said. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 19:35
|
|
|
Yami Fenrir posted:The problem is you never really see any of them. They're click and forget and you can't see them on others at all for the most part. Yeah sure I get warm fuzzies for clicking Utopian Abundance in my policy bar, but it doesn't really matter beyond that line I read out. (Well that and you know killing my CGs) Like a lot of the narrative downside/upside is abstracted in like pop happiness, rather than more noticeable stuff. I personally never notice individual pop happiness, I'm just looking at planetary stability. And my spiritualist authoritarian necrophage easily gets 100 stability everywhere regardless of what living standard I run. It's just, either make it matter more with more events and feedback on what you're doing or don't make it matter at all.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 19:41
|
|
|
I want a reverse-colossus that can make new worlds like Titan AE.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 19:51
|
|
|
And Tyler Too! posted:I want a reverse-colossus that can make new worlds like Titan AE. One thing I love about giga structures (even if I rarely use the feature) is that you can, in fact, revive dead planets with them. It's a lot of effort for relatively little gain but lemme do it, damnit!
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 19:52
|
|
|
Eimi posted:Yeah sure I get warm fuzzies for clicking Utopian Abundance in my policy bar, but it doesn't really matter beyond that line I read out. (Well that and you know killing my CGs) Like a lot of the narrative downside/upside is abstracted in like pop happiness, rather than more noticeable stuff. I personally never notice individual pop happiness, I'm just looking at planetary stability. And my spiritualist authoritarian necrophage easily gets 100 stability everywhere regardless of what living standard I run. It's just, either make it matter more with more events and feedback on what you're doing or don't make it matter at all. Yeah I think the larger problem is that happiness/stability is basically a non-issue in any empire. It's extremely easy to manage it even in the most brutal authoritarian regimes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 19:53
|
|
|
Why can't robutt pops colonize barren worlds anyway? Not like they need the atmosphere for anything.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 19:53
|
|
|
Eimi posted:Yeah sure I get warm fuzzies for clicking Utopian Abundance in my policy bar, but it doesn't really matter beyond that line I read out. (Well that and you know killing my CGs) Like a lot of the narrative downside/upside is abstracted in like pop happiness, rather than more noticeable stuff. I personally never notice individual pop happiness, I'm just looking at planetary stability. And my spiritualist authoritarian necrophage easily gets 100 stability everywhere regardless of what living standard I run. It's just, either make it matter more with more events and feedback on what you're doing or don't make it matter at all. One thing I loved about... uh Civ 5, I think it was? Anyway, what I loved is that when your pops were really happy, they had a little "We love the governor" day or something like that. It didn't even do anything iirc. It just... was a little SOMETHING. And it made me feel good.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 19:56
|
|
|
Poil posted:Why can't robutt pops colonize barren worlds anyway? Not like they need the atmosphere for anything. That's bothered me for ages. My handwave for it is that they need a strong magnetic field or the solar radiation fries their circuits, and planets with strong magnetic fields tend to be the ones that manage to keep habitable atmospheres because the solar winds aren't stripping them off. I know there's a million holes in that but I'm sticking with it! And Tyler Too! posted:I want a reverse-colossus that can make new worlds like Titan AE. I can't believe there's a Khan but no Genesis Device! The artifact you get from the Baol precursor chain isn't too far off, though. Vienna Circlejerk fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Jan 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 20:01
|
|
|
Yami Fenrir posted:One thing I loved about... uh Civ 5, I think it was? I think the one that didn't do anything was civ 2, civ 5 having excess happiness gave your cities a huge growth bonus and is pretty key to some deity strats.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 20:33
|
|
|
Splicer posted:Sword of the Stars is a better game because the devs knew what it was. It's a top-tier wargame scenario generator stapled to a mid-tier TBS. The one piece where it partially loses sight of this is Trade, which is also the worst part of the entire game. Stellaris's problem is that the devs don't know what it is. Is it an RTS? If so, pops getting mad at you for genociding things should be a global modifier of some kind and modeling individual pops is completely unnecessary, but combat should be a million times more interesting with much more variety. Is it a game about RPing custom made empires? Then the RP choices should have much bigger impacts, and larger empires should be regularly tearing themselves apart due to internal pressures (and you get to pick which resultant empire you control). Where we are is a weird frankenstein of the two. The RTS isn't fun because there's a bunch of weird RP stuff getting in the way of painting the map. The RP stuff isn't fun because they can't put in anything that gets too far in the way of painting the map. I always feel like there is this huge disconnect between me and other players, because for me the game is still a lot of fun, warts and all. Now if the devs would add warp drives back in, Stellaris (with the industrial changes coming next) would be nearly perfect!
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 20:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 14:29 |
|
|
The Cheshire Cat posted:I think the one that didn't do anything was civ 2, civ 5 having excess happiness gave your cities a huge growth bonus and is pretty key to some deity strats. Alpha Centauri had "Golden Ages" which had a few stat improvements for the city while they went on
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 20:38
|
|
