C... posted:If every House skips the vote, and declines to pay a Moderation Incentive, does the moderator unilaterally decide whether we Aye or Nay the bill?
EDIT: Dilemma 1 resolution/Dilemma 2 presentation in the previous page!
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Jan 11, 2021 17:38
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Phelddagrif posted:
 Councilor "An interesting tack, given these mills are on your borders and it may well be your people who are most affected. Is not a lord meant to be a protector and caretaker for his people?"
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Jan 11, 2021 17:46
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 Honestly the negative sticker should not be the worst thing ever. I expressed my thoughts about house Gambol not taking responsibility for it but [OOC] it should have some cool ability attached to signing it to counterbalance the negative effect in the next generations. Before anyone accuses me of trying to convince some sucker to vote nay and sign that sticker: I resemble those accusations but I'm not lying about my thoughts here.
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Jan 11, 2021 19:08
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Omobono posted:
True, it's a vote between Good And Bad vs Bad and Bad, so there must be a silver lining (like an envelope to open?)
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Jan 11, 2021 19:51
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 Councilmember I must say that my first thought is 'nay.' We have only the farmers' word that this tragedy wasn't an accident, and if the Mother wills that some mills burn, who are we to intervene? Not to mention that the Kingdom's finances are hardly overflowing. The peasants can tighten their belts a little for the good of us all. What do my fellow House members think?
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Jan 11, 2021 19:52
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Omobono posted:
C... posted:True, it's a vote between Good And Bad vs Bad and Bad, so there must be a silver lining (like an envelope to open?) Senator It is a negative sticker for a reason. If those brutes from Crann or elitists from Tiryll were represented on this council, they might have found a benefit from that negativity itself. Fortunately, King Harald V has filled this council with good, noble houses that understand the permanent consequences of not rebuilding the windmills. *Pointed glare at House Pinchay's Councilmember Phelddagrif* I am in agreement with the rest of my House that has spoken up so far, this dilemma needs to end in an Aye. Mind you, this is not an overriding vote under the new rules, I have faith in our current Councilor to handle the matter at their discretion. EDIT: OOC: Swear to god those two posts weren't there while I was working on this one. Maybe I'm just too slow to post myself. The glare above now includes megane. Oblivion4568238 fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jan 11, 2021 |
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Jan 11, 2021 19:59
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I have received a few questions about fair usage of the Sheets and/or using code to mask the comms itt, and I guess I haven't really explained all the reasons we went with the "talk about votes itt" rule till now  - One of the reasons is narrative: the game is going to be more fun when events develop and consequences start happening if there has been a solid discussion on those specific issues itt before that. IE: if a couple of Houses decide to go all in on fracking and the King's Palace gets swallowed by the earth, it's going to be more interesting if there has been a debate on this before, compared to "House X pledges Y power" said in public with everything else happening in secret. This is definitely a game where the travel is at least as important than the destination, if not more. - The other reason is mechanical: in the real game voting is sequential and you would have potentially several rounds of betting instead of a single blind round - with people able to call/raise in a way similar to Poker - so you would be able to gauge other player's intentions before you decide what to do. General talk about "I think we shoul do X" is a way to replicate that kind of partial knowledge. That said, a reminder that you can still use the sheet to talk about higher level strategy (IE: game goals, agendas, achievements, etc) - but if you are talking about the current vote you should either do so itt, or post itt and specify hard numbers in the sheet afterwards. That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Jan 11, 2021 |
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Jan 11, 2021 20:12
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megane posted:
Senator I find myself in agreement. If the Mother is testing her children, who are we to intervene? And furthermore, surely the kingdom cannot be able to rush to the aid of every peasant or burgher in financial distress? Surely the Mother wishes all her children to be able to stand on their own legs, and this trial will only strengthen their resolve in the future. Blessed be the Mother.
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Jan 11, 2021 20:26
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Covski posted:
And what if this is the Mother testing your ability to build windmills quickly? Can we determine this from holy texts, prophesy, or augury?
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Jan 11, 2021 20:30
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 Senator My Lords seem to forget that mills are not just bread for the peasants. They are an investment in the future, both of the smallfolk and of the kingdom as a whole. Mills are the lifeblood of entire countrysides. They bring not only food, but are some of the most reliable long-term wealth generating industries a town may possess. Any coin spent on rebuilding these mills today will pay for itself tenfold in future taxes, and in preventing losses to banditry from desperate peasants. Besides, I'd hope that no one working for the good of the Kingdom would want their name to go down as the one who starved the people and left the land destitute.
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Jan 11, 2021 20:50
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C... posted:True, it's a vote between Good And Bad vs Bad and Bad, so there must be a silver lining (like an envelope to open?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa276iMlahk
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Jan 11, 2021 21:17
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megane posted:
Covski posted:
My only concern about the issue is if degenerates from outside the border were the cause of the burning. We have no evidence of this though, so I am sure the unfortunate event is the Mother's Will, and rebuilding would interfere with it. Blessed be the Mother.
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Jan 11, 2021 21:47
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 Senator While I still consider neutrality the wisest course of action, one consideration for the use of wealth is that it is currently showing its negative side. Therefore, if we spend it, we will slide downwards 3 Wealth, just as we did with Influence sliding up 3. Meanwhile, our Welfare is also Negative, meaning that it will merely flip to white and go nowhere. In the end, rebuilding the windmills will lower the nation's Stability by 3, putting it right back where we started. What does that all mean? It depends on your respective interests, but in the end, the nation will be as stable as could be, albeit significantly poorer. e: Actually no, I am a doofus. Momentum is just -1 for Wealth, so it will depend on how much we lose on top of that. Blastinus fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Jan 11, 2021 |
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Jan 11, 2021 21:48
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Blastinus posted:
[OOC for game mechanics] That's not quite right. The Welfare token being black just means that it's trending downwards, and will move an extra space if it's lowered. If it's improved, it will still move up, but then it will just flip to white and won't gain extra momentum. Phelddagrif fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jan 11, 2021 |
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Jan 11, 2021 21:53
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I'm strongly in favor of Aye, but let me note something. As I understand, [OOC] the Stability track only reacts to the first token move in a result. Looking at the card, the first one would be the Welfare icon, so Stability would go up... probably. [/OOC] We'd be kind of poor, but we'd be rich in food and windmills. So the real question is: do we want to Pass, or commit to an Aye vote just in case someone tries something wack? [echoes Oblivion's glare]
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Jan 11, 2021 21:57
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Senator The only thing we can know for certain is a vote Nay will lower the Stability track as a whole, the sum changes from voting Aye remain unknown whether the costs to the Treasury will outweigh the benefits to the overall Welfare. On a more nitty-gritty note, since both potential resources effected are currently trending negative at least one slider is going to be gaining negative momentum. If Nay is indeed selected, perish the thought, while the Leading house will get the ignominious note of a negative chronicle there hardly seems to be any benefit for any non-leader Naysayers other than angry peasants.
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Jan 11, 2021 21:59
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Phelddagrif posted:
(Also OOC) Yeah, what confused me about it was that I missed the fact that the card itself added +2 to Influence and Momentum was only +1. So what will actually happen, like you said, is that wealth will decrease an additional -1 in addition to the penalty of the card while Welfare will just increase the card amount and then flip to white. Sorry for the confusion. Carry on.
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Jan 11, 2021 21:59
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Quackles posted:
[still OOC] The Stability marker will move as a result of each token that moves. So in this case, if the result is Yea, then Welfare will go up by some amount, and Stability will increase. Then, Wealth will go down, and Stability will decrease. This can trigger the end of the game, by the way. If we were already at high Stability, and it hit the top of the track from the increase in Welfare, the game end would trigger even if Stability ended up at a lower spot overall.
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Jan 11, 2021 22:08
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Phelddagrif posted:[still OOC] [OOC; rereads manual] Whoops, my bad. You have the right of it. [back IC] I don't think we honestly need to worry about stability right now. It looks like a Nay vote might have lasting consequences, and we really should avoid that. House Natar - could you expand on the reasoning behind your position? You seem to be at odds with the general mood of the council.
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Jan 11, 2021 22:11
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Senator I very much agree with my fellows. We spend some money, opportunities will present itself to make it back, I'm sure. But we can't have hunger, now can we? I'm sure that'll cost more in the long run.
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Jan 11, 2021 22:13
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Well then. Mostly Accurate Senate Status Report brought to you by House Daucus Power/Coins House Gambol: 6 Power, 14 Coins House Cyfoeth: 8 Power, 10 Coins House Daucus: 7 Power, 13 Coins House Pinchay: 7 Power, 3 Coins House Lethe: 11 Power, 11 Coins Prestige/Crave Currently all Houses should have 0 Prestige and 0 Crave. This will change over time. Hidden Agenda Prediction Important: These are all guesses, which will be compiled and updated during each dilemma based on previous actions and results. House Gambol still appears to be doing the 'vote to highest bidder' thing, except no one is buying. Perhaps they should take a breather? Agenda: Greedy Confidence: #### House Cyfoeth is strongly in favor of helping the farmers. Who wouldn't be? I can't divine additional motives, but they're on the right track. Agenda: Opulent? Confidence: #___ House Daucus is moving with the general mood of the council. Agenda: Of course we don't have a hidden agenda!  Confidence: — House Pinchay appears to be on the fence, and I can't be sure why. It's a win-win for them either way - if they just vote Aye (or Pass) they'll generate further goodwill with the other houses. Agenda: Opportunist Confidence: ###_ House Natar is against this. I really hope they're not just trying to play to their agenda at the expense of everyone else. Agenda: Moderate Confidence: ###_
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Jan 11, 2021 22:32
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Is it possible that House Lethe is claiming to be against it in the hope of making other houses overspend? And that they hope to risk a pittance (and the mark against them) to make the other houses spend large amounts of power, rather than a trickle?
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Jan 11, 2021 22:36
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Senator It's certainly a reasonable assumption. For a cut and dry issue like this, it'd be easy to just drop 1 or 2 power and have a decent chance of running unopposed. So if you seed a bit of confusion, you can make people assume that they need to commit more power than is actually necessary. It's also worth noting that while House Lethe was arguing hard for Nay last time, they ended up passing in the end, so there's precedent for this sort of deception.
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Jan 11, 2021 22:44
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Shogeton posted:
It's certainly possible. They did show signs of leaning Nay last round and then Passed (though the preponderance of deals may have swung that) so it's known that they're changeable from their stated positions. But I guess someone would have to commit something to make sure this doesn't happen. And if most people Pass, whoever commits would probably be the leader of the thing. If we're into coalition building, may I suggest that House Cyfoeth makes a commitment to provide a certain amount of power (posted publicly) on Aye? They've got the most power on the Aye-leaning side, so they can afford it, and they'll get perks out of it if they sign. And then the rest of us can balance out deciding to support or pass to backstop against possible Natar interference.
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Jan 11, 2021 22:55
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Treasurer My original position was made on the basis that if anyone should happen to be supremely invested in this, House Gambol would be willing to lend their support. However, since the general tenor of the rest of my house is to be a bit more wary, and in light of other statements concerning a price war, I guess I should retract that. The interests of House Gambol now lie squarely with the stated interests of the Sitting Councilmember in terms of minimizing damage and it is my sincerest hope that, especially in light of fears of a potential bidding war, that the Houses can come together to collectively do so as well.
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Jan 11, 2021 23:07
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Senator The monocled noble shakes his head at the drunk. Time might be short, but no need to disgrace yourself. "I think we should hold, regain some power and then takes steps. Either that or rebuild them."
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Jan 11, 2021 23:12
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Quackles posted:
Councilmember I'm all for cooperation in general, but let's build the trust first. Offer: House Cyfoeth will pay one coin to any House willing to put one, and only one, vote on Aye.
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Jan 11, 2021 23:30
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Phelddagrif posted:The Stability marker will move as a result of each token that moves. So in this case, if the result is Yea, then Welfare will go up by some amount, and Stability will increase. Then, Wealth will go down, and Stability will decrease.
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Jan 12, 2021 00:09
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Senator C... posted:
Absurd - would a mother teach a child a lesson by letting its older sibling solve the problem for them? Shogeton posted:
I do not see the reason for this kind of conspiracist thinking. Our goals are the same as yours: The good of the kingdom and the glory of the Mother. But the fact of the matter is, that dispite the sympathy we feel for those affected by this unfortunate circumstance, the king simply cannot afford try to save all subjects from every kind of misfortune that may befall them - and in this case, spending more precious resources than absolutely necessary to bail out the rich merchants and millowners is not only bordering on irresponsibilty, but also hindering them from learning what the Mother is trying to teach them. Blessed be the mother.
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Jan 12, 2021 00:16
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Covski posted:
Well, if the lesson is "know when it is a good thing to rely on the help of others", that's exactly what a mother would do.
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Jan 12, 2021 00:28
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That Italian Guy posted:This is all correct! As an addendum, resource movements (and Stability change) are applied one at a time, in the order they are printed on the back of the outcome card (left to right). Also (quite rarely) resources other that the ones in the front of the card are (slightly) affected. The really frustrating part is when you need a resource to be top or bottom and it doesn't come up for half the reign and so you push hard for the first agenda that does...and then it moves it by like, 1. Woo.
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Jan 12, 2021 00:28
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Covski posted:
Ah, of course, you must have completed all conceivable learning. Praise the Mother for her... efficiency. Quackles posted:Well then. Agenda: Wild Speculation Confidence: ####
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Jan 12, 2021 00:31
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Councilmember My grounds for opposing are, first, that it would be a sizeable expenditure for what may well be a minor benefit. ([OOC] That is, the symbols only indicate a gain or loss, not how strong of one. Consider a possibility where Aye meant +1 food and -3 wealth, while Nay meant just -1 food and a sticker with some good short-term effect. Of course, we don't know what will occur, but "bad + bad" versus "good + bad" seems an overly simplistic reading of the situation.) Second, as mentioned, there is no evidence that this was anything but the Mother's will. It is not the Crown's place, let alone its obligation, to countervail against Her acts. Finally, we cannot, and should not, pay for every passing problem - if this was a true emergency or threat to the realm, then yes, we might be driven to action of necessity, but our food stocks are hardly empty. Jumping at every minor swing of fortune avails us nothing. Quackles posted:
I understand how it might have seemed, but we stated quite clearly that we were ambivalent, leaning no. If I interpret the intent of the last sitting councilmember correctly, House Pinchay's massive spending meant opposing the bill would have been fruitless (as you say), and no-one endeavored to convince us one way or the other, so we remained neutral. I don't see that as being deceptive at all. megane fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Jan 12, 2021 |
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Jan 12, 2021 00:43
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[OOC] Small note - I'm pretty sure the li'l triangles around the Chronicle sticker icon on the card indicate that... the chronicle card will specifically have a negative effect. I'm not looking forward to that, whatever it is.C... posted:
You know, there would be a super easy way to prove you weren't Greedy. I propose (this isn't binding 'cause I'm not sitting council member but) that House Gambol gives 2 Coins in exchange for we vote Aye with one power Token.
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Jan 12, 2021 01:52
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Quackles posted:[OOC] Small note - I'm pretty sure the li'l triangles around the Chronicle sticker icon on the card indicate that... the chronicle card will specifically have a negative effect. I'm not looking forward to that, whatever it is. Nah. I think we don't have a strong enough opinion on this one to need to bribe someone.
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Jan 12, 2021 04:04
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Quackles posted:[OOC] Small note - I'm pretty sure the li'l triangles around the Chronicle sticker icon on the card indicate that... the chronicle card will specifically have a negative effect. I'm not looking forward to that, whatever it is. Senator Should you wish, the offer from our councilmember is still open. One coin for one power on an Aye vote. Much like rebuilding the mills, it is planting the seed of coin to reap the grain of trust.
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Jan 12, 2021 04:09
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Nea posted:
That's fair. I wasn't honestly expecting you to. It was more to make a point. Shogeton posted:
Not a bad idea! I'm going to leave that choice to the Sitting Councilmember for House Daucus, though. Quackles fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Jan 12, 2021 |
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Jan 12, 2021 04:14
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Quackles posted:
Such a kind offer! The debate seems all but resolved for the current dilemma, but perhaps next time.
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Jan 12, 2021 05:02
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Just wanted to inform my Gambol bretheren I've posted a comment in the Sheet for your review.
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Jan 12, 2021 05:50
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 15:37 |
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Just realized that I was too concentrated on the automation process for the Dilemma updates to remember to post a small fluff blurb about :The Common People posted:With their numbers and resiliency, they are the backbone of the kingdom. They mostly have humble jobs like farming, woodcutting, tailoring, or mining. They do not own any significant wealth and the fruits of their work serve them just to get by. Their interests are defended by the Tribune, an elected figure with a mandate of ten years who reports the problems of the common people to the Council. Justice posted:With the conviction that each wrong must be followed by an equal and opposite reaction to restore balance, justice in the kingdom of Ankist is commonly based on the law of retaliation: the more serious the felony, the more harsh the punishment. The more common crimes are dealt with by local judges, although the duke, marquis, or even the king may be consulted to ask for a pardon. On the other hand, the most ambiguous cases are brought to the attention of the First Judge, an expert and wise man of law at the head of the Justice Court of Lybra, who studies these matters and submits their advice to the Council. I'll collect these fluff details in the second post I've made itt. Unfortunately it looks like I forgot to reserve a couple posts after the OP, so it's a bit more down the thread in the 1st page. That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 12:06 on Jan 12, 2021 |
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Jan 12, 2021 11:57
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