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Start by explaining how one “abuses” Panglacial Wurm
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Jan 7, 2021 11:24
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 18:56 |
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Bust Rodd posted:Start by explaining how one “abuses” Panglacial Wurm While searching your library that contains Panglacial Wurm, you can begin to cast it during the resolution of the search effect, giving you the opportunity to activate mana abilities. A couple of weird mana abilities do other things besides produce mana, the simplest of which being Chromatic Sphere. So while searching if you like the top card of your library, you can begin casting panglacial wurm, activate chromatic sphere as part of paying the cost, draw the card, and then not have enough mana to actually cast it and such undo the action but still have activated the chromatic sphere. I know Sylvala is a much more straightforward version of what chromatic sphere does and is a commander but I'm wondering if there are other similar effects on commanders that may be better?
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Jan 7, 2021 11:36
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Panglacial Wurm is a card you talk about playing in various contexts but you never actually play in any context. The best case scenario is a 7 mana 9/5. The worst case is a 7 mana 9/5 that you have a rules argument about.
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Jan 7, 2021 13:19
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Yeah. Panglacial Wurm is a thought experiment; not a deck theme.
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Jan 7, 2021 15:03
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I'm thinking about tossing together a mardu deck with the restriction of having lurrus as a companion since there was a 2cmc black partner in legends to pair with akiri. My quick draft is here https://www.moxfield.com/decks/QKJtPiwoP0uQfDxPRaaxzg and it's missing nobrainers like bob and moxen and vamp tut because I don't have them. Looks to win with ad nauseum into a relic-warder/animate dead loop with a drain effect on the field, with akiri beatdown as a backup plan and miara providing some card draw with changelings (these are probably the first to go when cutting). Any ideas on fun directions to take this deck?
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Jan 7, 2021 20:31
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I play Panglacial Wurm in my Yeva deck because it's the only place I can play him. sure, he's bad, but sometimes having a 9/5 trampler out of loving nowhere is the solution to your problems. he's hidden inside every fetchland, just waiting for a chance to happen!
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Jan 7, 2021 22:03
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Aranan posted:Panglacial Wurm is a card you talk about playing in various contexts but you never actually play in any context. The best case scenario is a 7 mana 9/5. The worst case is a 7 mana 9/5 that you have a rules argument about. There might be some really weird dumb combo you could do with it that involves cascade and getting it back into your library. A serious rube golderberg type thing.
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Jan 7, 2021 22:32
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Aranan posted:Panglacial Wurm is a card you talk about playing in various contexts but you never actually play in any context. The best case scenario is a 7 mana 9/5. The worst case is a 7 mana 9/5 that you have a rules argument about. You swapped "best" and "worst" in this post. So what you do is, you have Archmage Ascension turned on, Selvala in play, and Panglacial Wurm in your deck. You crack a fetchland. While searching, you cast Panglacial Wurm. Then, in order to pay for Panglacial Wurm, you activate Selvala. As part of that ability, you search your library thanks to Archmage Ascension, and shuffle your library, while you're still searching it for the fetchland. According to the rules, you are now still supposed to be looking at all the cards in your library, while also randomizing them. Once you figure out how to do that, you end up not having enough mana to cast the Wurm, and have to undo its casting. As part of that, you can't undo the activation of Selvala since it resulted in cards moving from libraries to hands. But you still are required to put the Panglacial Wurm back in the library. Where does it go? Top? Bottom? Player's choice? Same position that it was before, even though the rest of the cards are reordered (this is probably the most justifiable answer)? It doesn't matter because you're about to shuffle your library for the fetchland, still. But if you also have KCI, Mycosynth Lattice, Chromatic Sphere, and a second Panglacial Wurm in your deck, you can sacrifice the Archmage Ascension and then crack the Sphere as part of casting the other Panglacial Wurm, and end up drawing a card before you shuffle for the fetchland, at which point the exact location of the first Wurm becomes important - do you draw it or some other card? (Unfortunately we're now outside the realm of EDH 'cause you gotta have two Panglacial Wurms in your deck.) (the real answer is "wizards should errata chromatic sphere and selvala to be activated only at instant speed")
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Jan 7, 2021 22:56
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DontMockMySmock posted:You swapped "best" and "worst" in this post. I thought you couldn't deliberately cast things you couldn't pay for.
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Jan 7, 2021 23:30
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pseudanonymous posted:I thought you couldn't deliberately cast things you couldn't pay for. You don't know whether you can pay for it or not until you find out that Selvala didn't give you enough mana.
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Jan 7, 2021 23:33
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DontMockMySmock posted:You don't know whether you can pay for it or not until you find out that Selvala didn't give you enough mana. Yes, you do? Nothing is going to change between the time you choose to cast the wurm while searching and tapping Selvala, you know how much mana you're going to get by tapping Selvala before you tap Selvala. It's a mana ability so it doesn't go on the stack or anything, so even if you put a creature into play by whenever you tap a creature, it wouldn't resolve until you'd gained the mana. The greatest power among creatures you control is a known quantity at any given moment when you could activate a mana ability. Selvala's first ability is an ETB ability, you don't draw the card until the creature enters the battlefield. So you wouldn't get the second search until the wurm was actually on the field, which wouldn't happen at all, because you don't have enough mana to cast that.
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Jan 7, 2021 23:53
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Selvala, Explorer Returned, not Heart of the Wilds
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Jan 7, 2021 23:58
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pseudanonymous posted:Yes, you do? Nothing is going to change between the time you choose to cast the wurm while searching and tapping Selvala, you know how much mana you're going to get by tapping Selvala before you tap Selvala. It's a mana ability so it doesn't go on the stack or anything, so even if you put a creature into play by whenever you tap a creature, it wouldn't resolve until you'd gained the mana. Wrong Selvala, my bad for not clarifying. Explorer Returned. You don't know the contents of the tops of all libraries.
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Jan 7, 2021 23:58
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pseudanonymous posted:Yes, you do? Nothing is going to change between the time you choose to cast the wurm while searching and tapping Selvala, you know how much mana you're going to get by tapping Selvala before you tap Selvala. It's a mana ability so it doesn't go on the stack or anything, so even if you put a creature into play by whenever you tap a creature, it wouldn't resolve until you'd gained the mana. Nobody tell them there's 2 Selvalas. 
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Jan 7, 2021 23:59
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my bad.
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Jan 8, 2021 00:00
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It sounds like the problem is Mana abilities from non land sources.
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Jan 8, 2021 03:49
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It sounds like the problem are players who want to hog all their friends time to show off their gigantic brains and possibly get a bright blue ribbon for being the biggest smarty pants at wizard school. It’s a weird rules interaction that only comes up when someone decides to build a deck around highlighting this unique and cumbersome interaction and showing it to their friends and saying “look, isn’t this weird? How does this work, lol!?”
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Jan 8, 2021 04:00
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It seems some people didn't read my earlier post. 
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Jan 8, 2021 09:15
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I come here to read about khaldeim in commander discussion and instead it's 14 posts about panglacial wurm and one Bust Rodd post being both right and rude as always.
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Jan 8, 2021 09:22
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Bust Rodd posted:It sounds like the problem are players who want to hog all their friends time to show off their gigantic brains and possibly get a bright blue ribbon for being the biggest smarty pants at wizard school. It’s a weird rules interaction that only comes up when someone decides to build a deck around highlighting this unique and cumbersome interaction and showing it to their friends and saying “look, isn’t this weird? How does this work, lol!?” I mean, you say that and to a certain extent I agree, but isn't that literally how EDH started? A bunch of bored judges who wanted to mix old cards?
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Jan 8, 2021 10:16
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We can argue about how bad my first draft of Obeka is and link a bunch of obscure cards for me to abuse instead.
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Jan 8, 2021 13:20
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Magnetic North posted:I mean, you say that and to a certain extent I agree, but isn't that literally how EDH started? A bunch of bored judges who wanted to mix old cards? Yes and no. I have to assume everyone here can tell the difference between “we’d like to play with big, expensive cards that don’t see any play in constructed formats. I equip Basilisk Collar to my Bloodfire Colossus!” and this specific instance in which the hypothetical deck we are discussing doesn’t appear to have any function besides demonstrating a rule that doesn’t quite work.
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Jan 8, 2021 14:52
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At least chains of mephis is a good card, not just a rules discussion printed on a piece of cardboard. Panglacial is more of a trivia thing than something you want to build a deck around.
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Jan 8, 2021 16:25
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Bust Rodd posted:Yes and no. I have to assume everyone here can tell the difference between “we’d like to play with big, expensive cards that don’t see any play in constructed formats. I equip Basilisk Collar to my Bloodfire Colossus!” and this specific instance in which the hypothetical deck we are discussing doesn’t appear to have any function besides demonstrating a rule that doesn’t quite work. One of those old timers must have been running Humility & Opalescence.
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Jan 8, 2021 16:38
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Bust Rodd, you're very mad at a joke post. No one is insane enough to sleeve up a deck with the cards I mentioned and try to reproduce that in an otherwise normal EDH game. I was just riffing on Panglacial Wurm and the rules fuckery it can theoretically help cause. Then you invented a hypothetical enemy to get mad at. Chill out, bro.
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Jan 8, 2021 19:51
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It's honestly not even that weird or crazy of a rules thing. If Panglacial Wurm is in your deck and you reveal it, you can use mana sources that also draw or mill your deck while you're in the middle of searching it, and know what cards you're hitting instead of it being random. It's only unique because the card only has to be in your library to work, instead of being in a face-up zone.
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Jan 8, 2021 19:57
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Infinite Karma posted:It's honestly not even that weird or crazy of a rules thing. If Panglacial Wurm is in your deck and you reveal it, you can use mana sources that also draw or mill your deck while you're in the middle of searching it, and know what cards you're hitting instead of it being random. Seriously they should just errata Panglacial Wurm to "As you're searching your library, you may exile this. If you do, you may cast it the next time you have priority."
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Jan 8, 2021 22:10
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It would be the first card to every use the word priority.
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Jan 8, 2021 22:25
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Toshimo posted:It would be the first card to every use the word priority. The approved way to template this is "whenever you could cast an instant" a la Lion's Eye Diamond.
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Jan 9, 2021 11:50
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So I've got a bit of a rulings question regarding Ezuri, Claw of Progress. So, for cards like Kalonian Hydra, their base P/T is 0/0 but they enter with some number of +1/+1 counters on them. My question is: do these still count as creatures with power 2 or less entering the field, and therefor trigger Ezuri's first ability?
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Jan 12, 2021 09:29
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serefin99 posted:So I've got a bit of a rulings question regarding Ezuri, Claw of Progress. yes, if the number of counters is low enough, but I suspect you mean "a 0/0 enters the battlefield with 3 or more +1/+1 counters" and no, in that case, it entered with 3 or more power
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Jan 12, 2021 09:34
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serefin99 posted:So I've got a bit of a rulings question regarding Ezuri, Claw of Progress. If a creature "enters with" counters (or any other change), then that modifies how it enters the battlefield. The Hydra ETBs as a 4/4.
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Jan 12, 2021 09:51
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LordSaturn posted:yes, if the number of counters is low enough, but I suspect you mean "a 0/0 enters the battlefield with 3 or more +1/+1 counters" and no, in that case, it entered with 3 or more power Gynovore posted:If a creature "enters with" counters (or any other change), then that modifies how it enters the battlefield. The Hydra ETBs as a 4/4. Darn, I thought that might be the case. Ah well, still gonna jam hydras in this deck, they just work so well.
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Jan 12, 2021 10:26
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New Commander bucket list item. Put the new Tibalt in play by having his God side copy a creature that can flip over due to a mechanic.
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Jan 12, 2021 22:35
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Tenasscity posted:New Commander bucket list item. Put the new Tibalt in play by having his God side copy a creature that can flip over due to a mechanic. this won't work, i don't think. For several reasons.
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Jan 12, 2021 22:46
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Kurieg posted:this won't work, i don't think. For several reasons. pulling it off will be that much more impressive.
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Jan 12, 2021 23:01
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You can’t just turn him into a Huntmaster of the Fells?
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Jan 12, 2021 23:18
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I think Tybalt is the exception to the rule, the rules say only dfc cards can transform even if theyre cloned. Since Tybalt is a dfc they should be able to transform if the original cards criteria is met.
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Jan 12, 2021 23:26
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:I think Tybalt is the exception to the rule, the rules say only dfc cards can transform even if theyre cloned. Since Tybalt is a dfc they should be able to transform if the original cards criteria is met. quote:711.5. Only permanents represented by transforming double-faced cards can transform. (See rule 701.28, “Transform.”) If a spell or ability instructs a player to transform any permanent that isn’t represented by a transforming double-faced card, nothing happens.
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Jan 12, 2021 23:34
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Oh right, sorry. I completely blanked that modal and dfc are technically two separate classes.
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Jan 13, 2021 05:10
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