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staring at massive horde of valuables wow i wonder what these could be for, drat just another thing marx failed to consider i guess!!
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Jan 12, 2021 17:17
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Lady Militant posted:because the wealth of the royals used to literally BE in what valuables they owned! how the hell do you think the royal families of yore stored wealth? there wasn't a loving bank of england in 1295 waitasecond, you think the wealth of the KING OF ENGLAND in 1295 consisted of the crown of england and not, for instance, england?
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Jan 12, 2021 17:17
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Often Abbreviated posted:from ideology. symbols. things that only exist in our minds but which allow us to order and categorise the world. jamming my head into the inaugural sorting hat to discover the presidential truths written on the golden voting tablets
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Jan 12, 2021 17:17
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guys i just took my first bong rip and had to start arguing for hours about the first thing i read that challenged my intuitions
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Jan 12, 2021 17:18
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also kinda stunned at someone denying the existence of banks in 1295 tbh look up the history of Judaism in medieval Europe my friend, you'll have a time
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Jan 12, 2021 17:19
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Often Abbreviated posted:waitasecond, you think the wealth of the KING OF ENGLAND in 1295 consisted of the crown of england and not, for instance, england? "the crown jewels" could refer to literally the crown and the jewels layed within; but it's also historically meant the collection of gold, minerals, and other things that the crown had to store it's wealth. Often Abbreviated posted:also kinda stunned at someone denying the existence of banks in 1295 tbh i know that institutions that handled debt existed smart rear end. that still doesn't change the fact noble families throughout basically their entire existence have been essentially dragons looking to hoard every piece of gold they can find to make number go up. Lady Militant has issued a correction as of 17:23 on Jan 12, 2021 |
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Jan 12, 2021 17:20
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Lady Militant posted:"the crown jewels" could refer to literally the crown and the jewels layed within; but it's also historically meant the collection of gold, minerals, and other things that the crown had to store it's wealth. oh so ur saying it SYMBOLISED something hmm tell me mor
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Jan 12, 2021 17:21
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Zhulik posted:i played a lot of Granary in 2008 so i have an intimate understanding of how coups work with the way everyone was let in, you'd think it's Fastlane
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Jan 12, 2021 17:21
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doing magical thinking to pwn historical materialism
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Jan 12, 2021 17:23
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Often Abbreviated posted:then historical materialism needs to get its poo poo together. you can't even have a system of production and distribution without ideology. except the "find poo poo on the ground and put it in your mouth" version I guess. yes people do require food and shelter to survive, hence why history and the formation of ideologies are driven by material conditions, rather than the other way around this is like Marxism 101 poo poo
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Jan 12, 2021 17:24
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if the rowdy maga men all jacked off onto the speaker podium while chanting it would be closer to an actual coup attempt than what we got lmao
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Jan 12, 2021 17:24
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THS posted:doing magical thinking to pwn historical materialism i can't tell if they are trying to do the "well gold and jewels don't technically have any practical value therefore materialism is disproven bing bong"
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Jan 12, 2021 17:25
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Often Abbreviated, you're right that symbols of power (crowns, fancy buildings, whatever) can take on power of their own in the minds of people, so that ownership of those symbols is an undeniable advantage in a struggle for power. But I think you're overestimating the power of physically occupying the capitol and possessing boxes of electoral vote records. Because the would-be-coup-leaders almost achieved that, you conclude the coup was almost successful. The coup did not approach success because it was an unorganized mob without any support from state institutions (because they don't have any support from capital). Even if they'd managed to hold down the capital and set the box of electoral votes on fire, the national guard or the army would've arrived and flushed them out and a new box of electoral votes would be printed. Once Trump abandoned them to go chill at his house, the coup's only shot at disrupting the electoral process was literally killing so many congresspeople that the relevant votes could not take place. I think that would've been a constitutional crisis for sure, but it would ultimately result in Biden taking the presidency because that's what most Americans expect and what most billionaires desire at this point.
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Jan 12, 2021 17:26
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Cnidaria posted:yes people do require food and shelter to survive, hence why history and the formation of ideologies are driven by material conditions, rather than the other way around then Marxism 101 is wrong, sorry. animals can find food and shelter but they can't conceptualise a system of production and distribution. we had gods and ghosts and chieftains and miracles long before we had agriculture. ideology precedes material. any conception of the material presupposes ideology.
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Jan 12, 2021 17:28
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SARTRE: I must apologize for Often Abbreviated. We have purposely trained him wrong, as a joke.Often Abbreviated posted:ceremonial symbols and ideology are precisely how political power works, outside the narrow cases of someone literally holding a gun to your head. you think laws and votes and elections are real?
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Jan 12, 2021 17:29
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Civilized Fishbot posted:The coup did not approach success because it was an unorganized mob without any support from state institutions 
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Jan 12, 2021 17:32
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Civilized Fishbot posted:Often Abbreviated, you're right that symbols of power (crowns, fancy buildings, whatever) can take on power of their own in the minds of people, so that ownership of those symbols is an undeniable advantage in a struggle for power. I don't really disagree with any of this (what I'm actually saying gets tangled up with what people think or assume I'm saying, unfortunately). but I think the what-happens-next looks much worse in a world where they did succeed in storming the chamber and had to be driven out by the national guard hours later, rather than in the present one where Trump abandoned them then told them to go home.
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Jan 12, 2021 17:33
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Would that cop, or any other cops, have stuck around to help defend the occupation against the national guard? I should say "meaningful support" - you're right that there were dozens or even hundreds of cops willing to stand aside. That's totally meaningless in the scale of trying to overthrow the entire U.S. government.
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Jan 12, 2021 17:35
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Often Abbreviated posted:I don't really disagree with any of this (what I'm actually saying gets tangled up with what people think or assume I'm saying, unfortunately). but I think the what-happens-next looks much worse in a world where they did succeed in storming the chamber and had to be driven out by the national guard hours later, rather than in the present one where Trump abandoned them then told them to go home. we'll see i guess https://twitter.com/aterkel/status/1348870180559065088 next week should be interesting
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Jan 12, 2021 17:35
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ah, to be the person furtively yelling at Baked Alaska in the chat they probably haven't been having a good go of it for longer than the last week
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Jan 12, 2021 17:36
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lol isn't baked alaska still on the lam
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Jan 12, 2021 17:39
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Often Abbreviated posted:I don't really disagree with any of this (what I'm actually saying gets tangled up with what people think or assume I'm saying, unfortunately). but I think the what-happens-next looks much worse in a world where they did succeed in storming the chamber and had to be driven out by the national guard hours later, rather than in the present one where Trump abandoned them then told them to go home. It definitely looks worse, I agree. I think the only place where we disagree is where you said they "came within an inch of victory." If you define "victory" as "stopping the H.P. Hovercraft posted:we'll see i guess Why does Babbit get a memorial protest when the other casualties don't? Because she was the only one who died on video?
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Jan 12, 2021 17:39
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Halloween Jack posted:SARTRE: I must apologize for Often Abbreviated. We have purposely trained him wrong, as a joke. lol
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Jan 12, 2021 17:39
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the actual danger of over-inflating what happened is obscuring what is actually going on, which is abusing and encouraging a 9/11 style hysteria to reinforce the democratic party’s new authoritarian neoliberal nightmare they are going to enact. you probably can’t do anything about it, but there’s no reason to go along for the ride and huff the spectacle until your brain runs out of oxygen this is part of the addiction to the ongoing no-brakes news cycles that are really melting brains. no sober analysis, just ramping up your own anxiety and fear to no benefit to yourself
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Jan 12, 2021 17:43
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:lol isn't baked alaska still on the lam he's probably in the best position out of anyone who attended since he's been on the lam the longest the dumbest outcome is that he made off better due to it, given how everyone else was scrabbling for a blanket pardon, while meanwhile, they've got his picture hanging at various local 7/11s,
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Jan 12, 2021 17:44
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docbeard posted:1) They didn't have a legitimate path toward overturning the election, but they thought they did and were nearly in a position to hurt a lot of people to make it happen. That's the problem here. When you say "people" are you referring to the elected creatures in our government?
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Jan 12, 2021 17:46
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:lol isn't baked alaska still on the lam I've been looking out for him specifically and I haven't heard of him being arrested
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Jan 12, 2021 17:48
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UP AND ADAM posted:When you say "people" are you referring to the elected creatures in our government? People I don't like are still people.
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Jan 12, 2021 17:48
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Often Abbreviated posted:then Marxism 101 is wrong, sorry. animals can find food and shelter but they can't conceptualise a system of production and distribution. we had gods and ghosts and chieftains and miracles long before we had agriculture. ideology precedes material. any conception of the material presupposes ideology.  Halloween Jack posted:SARTRE: I must apologize for Often Abbreviated. We have purposely trained him wrong, as a joke. lol
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Jan 12, 2021 17:49
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docbeard posted:People I don't like are still people. But it's good if they aren't around anymore
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Jan 12, 2021 17:50
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Why does everyone think storming congress is how you take power? I'd think that real power is wherever the Cia headquarters is
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Jan 12, 2021 17:50
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I feel like people in this thread should be more confused that the chuds aren't following their rational, material self-interest by becoming entrepreneurs and going to code camp
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Jan 12, 2021 17:53
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speaking of which, belabored interviewed a google union organizer
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Jan 12, 2021 17:56
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Civilized Fishbot posted:Why does Babbit get a memorial protest when the other casualties don't? Because she was the only one who died on video? i'm awaiting the inevitable chud counter protestors calling her antifa or a crisis actor
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Jan 12, 2021 18:00
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I suppose the good news is that we can all stop being communists now. the fact that there hasn't been a communist revolution proves that there is no need for one, as people would naturally follow their material self interest if one were required. truly we live in the best of all possible worlds
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Jan 12, 2021 18:01
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Often Abbreviated posted:then Marxism 101 is wrong, sorry. animals can find food and shelter but they can't conceptualise a system of production and distribution. we had gods and ghosts and chieftains and miracles long before we had agriculture. ideology precedes material. any conception of the material presupposes ideology. you're an animal. owned bitch
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Jan 12, 2021 18:02
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Why does everyone think storming congress is how you take power? I'd think that real power is wherever the Cia headquarters is nah there’s a real reason they played it so cool when we tried to storm Area 51, they knew we were that close to uncovering the real power in this country
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Jan 12, 2021 18:05
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Civilized Fishbot posted:It definitely looks worse, I agree. I think the only place where we disagree is where you said they "came within an inch of victory." If you define "victory" as "stopping the i'm organizing a memorial protest for the guy who tased his nuts and died
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Jan 12, 2021 18:06
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did a guy actually die of tasing his own nuts
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Jan 12, 2021 18:07
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grieving for Gandalf posted:did a guy actually die of tasing his own nuts No, but also yes.
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Jan 12, 2021 18:08
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