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grieving for Gandalf posted:did a guy actually die of tasing his own nuts probably not but this is the only time i’ll allow spiritual want to trump material circumstances. if we want the guy who tazed his balls to death to exist, then he does
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Jan 12, 2021 18:09
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docbeard posted:No, but also yes. I get it
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Jan 12, 2021 18:11
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Often Abbreviated posted:I feel like people in this thread should be more confused that the chuds aren't following their rational, material self-interest by becoming entrepreneurs and going to code camp 
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Jan 12, 2021 18:13
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Taze tape is real
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Jan 12, 2021 18:21
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if the guy tazing himself to death via his balls was not real, we would have to invent him
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Jan 12, 2021 18:24
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wow, socialist dog mom was at the riot, she talked to Machete y Mate about it (and they of course are the people to ask for takes on right-wing coups in general) i remember my dad and i talking about how US politics was turning into Latin American politics when i was a kid, but now the tools of empire are really rebounding.
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Jan 12, 2021 18:24
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grieving for Gandalf posted:did a guy actually die of tasing his own nuts actually he broke his neck from tasting his own nuts
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Jan 12, 2021 18:28
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THS posted:the actual danger of over-inflating what happened is obscuring what is actually going on, which is abusing and encouraging a 9/11 style hysteria to reinforce the democratic party’s new authoritarian neoliberal nightmare they are going to enact. you probably can’t do anything about it, but there’s no reason to go along for the ride and huff the spectacle until your brain runs out of oxygen They were gonna do that anyway, people being upset about fascists is good.
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Jan 12, 2021 18:33
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Often Abbreviated posted:ceremonial symbols and ideology are precisely how political power works, outside the narrow cases of someone literally holding a gun to your head. you think laws and votes and elections are real? When the British lords and commons (along with William of Orange) booted out King James II in the 1688 Glorious Revolution James responded by tossing the royal seal into the River Thames. Because he was dumb enough to think this would delegitimize the rule of monarchy and parliament in Britain. It didn't accomplish poo poo because a symbol is just a symbol.
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Jan 12, 2021 18:40
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https://twitter.com/LackingSaint/status/1349017634667376643
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Jan 12, 2021 18:42
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Often Abbreviated posted:I suppose the good news is that we can all stop being communists now. the fact that there hasn't been a communist revolution proves that there is no need for one, as people would naturally follow their material self interest if one were required. truly we live in the best of all possible worlds what's more likely: this simplistic caricature of marxism and replies of people responding to you is correct, and you're the sole voice of reason in this thread who has dismantled a whole intellectual tradition by going "people believed in ghosts and gods before the development of agriculture, checkmate," or that you don't know what you're talking about and you're bad at communicating?
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Jan 12, 2021 18:43
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thotsky posted:They were gonna do that anyway, people being upset about fascists is good. you’re missing what my point is, which is that you can be concerned about violent maga cultists without either hyperventilating to the point of blinding yourself to the actual sequence of events and their likely causes and outcomes, and also while not allowing your own head get hijacked into the democratic party circumscribed narrative. you’re just advocating for socialists to give up their critical faculties, diverted onto a track laid down by liberals, to bad liberal ends. “they were going to that anyway” isn’t license to then absolve yourself of having an analysis, or your own reaction, grounded in something closer to reality.
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Jan 12, 2021 18:57
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idealism is when i post a good idea, materialism is when jealous haters reply to say it's wrong
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Jan 12, 2021 18:58
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THS posted:you’re missing what my point is, which is that you can be concerned about violent maga cultists without either hyperventilating to the point of blinding yourself to the actual sequence of events and their likely causes and outcomes, and also while not allowing your own head get hijacked into the democratic party circumscribed narrative. fyi 
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Jan 12, 2021 18:58
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people believed in gods and ghosts when it pleased them, most prob werent ideologues and more flexible in the day to day, esp before christian monotheism when they treated gods more like.. I dunno bartering
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Jan 12, 2021 18:59
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bill maher voice: the rehphublicahns
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Jan 12, 2021 19:01
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Finicums Wake posted:what's more likely: this simplistic caricature of marxism and replies of people responding to you is correct, and you're the sole voice of reason in this thread who has dismantled a whole intellectual tradition by going "people believed in ghosts and gods before the development of agriculture, checkmate," or that you don't know what you're talking about and you're bad at communicating? false dichotomy. I suspect the thread is very bad at understanding and communicating a whole intellectual tradition, and is misrepresenting Marxism 101 to win an internet slapfight. which doesn't matter of course, internet slapfights being entirely symbolic and ideological and therefore non-existent.
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Jan 12, 2021 19:03
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Subvisual Haze posted:When the British lords and commons (along with William of Orange) booted out King James II in the 1688 Glorious Revolution James responded by tossing the royal seal into the River Thames. Because he was dumb enough to think this would delegitimize the rule of monarchy and parliament in Britain. It didn't accomplish poo poo because a symbol is just a symbol. then why is any of this in the history books? why are there history books?
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Jan 12, 2021 19:06
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I mean, one of the thread's stellar arguments was that the crown (which is not a symbol) symbolically represented all the wealth (gold and mineral) of the country. it being both a symbol and not a symbol aside, the fact that this explanation, in a thread full of supposed Marxists, totally blanked on the productive capacity of the nation's people as its most vital, and arguably only, source of wealth suggests you're not very good at this Marxism business.
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Jan 12, 2021 19:16
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THS posted:you’re missing what my point is, which is that you can be concerned about violent maga cultists without either hyperventilating to the point of blinding yourself to the actual sequence of events and their likely causes and outcomes, and also while not allowing your own head get hijacked into the democratic party circumscribed narrative. Your rhetoric about hyperventilating and poo poo is at best projecting, and at worst smacks of how chuds speak about social justice. With a few exceptions people are having pretty rational arguments about why they do or do not consider what happened to be a coup attempt. Nah, I'm not, man. I don't take my marching orders from liberals, but when I see fascists storm the capital to interfere in a democratic process with the approval of police and president I just tend to see that as a coup attempt no matter how successful, or how lumpen and laughable said fascists are. If anything I feel like it is you who's dancing to the tune of some piper with how important it seems to be to you to divorce yourself from what the libs might be talking about online right now. I don't have any impact on what libs do, and neither do you. I feel like I've shared enough of my analysis, just because I don't agree with yours does not mean I don't have one. I believe I understand where your skepticism is coming from, and I don't believe it is unwarranted, but being a contrarian with online libs does not mean you're automatically right, especially if it means agreeing with the right wing. That's a balance this thread in particular has some experience with. thotsky has issued a correction as of 19:21 on Jan 12, 2021 |
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Jan 12, 2021 19:17
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so I listen to cumtown, chapo, general intellect unit, bad faith, blowback, hardcore history, popular front, fall of civilizations, and the RA podcast (which is great it’s a weekly electronic music mix) through the Apple podcast app on my phone and I noticed it has a recommendations section and for some reason it recommended me a podcast called War Mode? their thumbnail looked lovely and it’s of a white van and I figured it was probably a jokey world conflict thing or something.  I listened to their first 2020 episode for 15 minutes before I clued into it being a really racist and Sinophobic couple of Trump guys who are also huge conspiracy theorists I legitimately thought I was listening to an edgy comedic bit for a while, a more political cumtown, but no apple recommended me a real racist conspiracy theory podcast outta nowhere oh, and joe rogue wolfs has issued a correction as of 19:27 on Jan 12, 2021 |
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Jan 12, 2021 19:20
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someone who is confused how a physical object could also be a symbol probably isn’t up to understanding the concept of ideology yet. Probably should start on something simpler like Piaget's Theory of Conservation
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Jan 12, 2021 19:21
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i believe Often Abbreviated can handle Socialism: Utopian and Scientific. i believe in them, and Engels.
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Jan 12, 2021 19:29
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idk he seems like a real dum-dum, lead a horse to water and all that
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Jan 12, 2021 19:33
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Often Abbreviated posted:then why is any of this in the history books?
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Jan 12, 2021 19:41
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what? if all is driven purely by material factors, why make a history book? why read one? why insist that kids have to read them as part of their education? seems like an enormous waste of material productive potential.
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Jan 12, 2021 19:44
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stories are good, op https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stakhanovite_movement
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Jan 12, 2021 19:46
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Often Abbreviated posted:what? if all is driven purely by material factors, Are you a libertarian, by chance?
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Jan 12, 2021 19:46
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thotsky posted:They were gonna do that anyway, people being upset about fascists is good. lol theyre not upset about that. theyre upset teh qanon barbarians hosed up their cultural fetish (capitol building)
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Jan 12, 2021 19:48
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Homeless Friend posted:lol theyre not upset about that. theyre upset teh qanon barbarians hosed up their cultural fetish (capitol building) when you cast pearls before swine, all that is treasure is lost to the mud 
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Jan 12, 2021 19:50
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Halloween Jack posted:Who said this? it's what this whole argument is about. read the thread. I say ideology and symbolism are the primary drivers of human activity, informed by (amongst other things) material factors. the thread (THS and joepinetree et al) have been absolutely insistent on material circumstances being everything. it is Marxism 101, apparently.
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Jan 12, 2021 19:50
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if they were way more orderly/primly dressed when they breached the building would people be less or more upset? i rest my case cspam
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Jan 12, 2021 19:51
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Often Abbreviated posted:it's what this whole argument is about. read the thread. I say ideology and symbolism are the primary drivers of human activity, informed by (amongst other things) material factors. the thread (THS and joepinetree et al) have been absolutely insistent on material circumstances being everything. it is Marxism 101, apparently. it’s impressive you both manage to point out how you have poor reading comprehension and that your fundamental idea is wrong all at once.
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Jan 12, 2021 19:52
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what does this have to do with podcasts
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Jan 12, 2021 19:53
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Often Abbreviated posted:what? if all is driven purely by material factors, why make a history book? why read one? why insist that kids have to read them as part of their education? seems like an enormous waste of material productive potential. to clear up misconceptions so obvious and massive that people find it hard to believe you're being an honest interlocutor. historical materialism has absolutely nothing to do with personal career or "productivity" advice. i struggle to imagine how you came up with that connection, but good on you for being opposed to the terrible idea you invented. take an hour and read Socialism: Utopian and Scientific. e: what podcasts do you listen to?
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Jan 12, 2021 19:53
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Doc Hawkins posted:take an hour and read Socialism: Utopian and Scientific. caveat: this is at 7x speed
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Jan 12, 2021 19:54
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grieving for Gandalf posted:what does this have to do with podcasts trying to clamp down on podcast thread derails... creeping fascism folks
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Jan 12, 2021 19:55
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Often Abbreviated posted:false dichotomy. I suspect the thread is very bad at understanding and communicating a whole intellectual tradition, and is misrepresenting Marxism 101 to win an internet slapfight. which doesn't matter of course, internet slapfights being entirely symbolic and ideological and therefore non-existent.
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Jan 12, 2021 19:57
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Often Abbreviated posted:waitasecond, you think the wealth of the KING OF ENGLAND in 1295 consisted of the crown of england and not, for instance, england? sorry maybe this has already been covered butn catching up and just hit this post and it’s cracking me up. you legit just inverted your entire argument lol.
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Jan 12, 2021 19:58
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alright, now I'm arguing against a second line of posters who weren't part of and didn't follow the original argument but are 100% certain that whatever it was about I was wrong that's enough for now.
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Jan 12, 2021 19:58
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