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Almost all tier lists, ESPECIALLY ones for this game, are dumb. Constellations offer such a widely varying degrees of usefulness that makes them just not work. Like, when I started the game, I didn't draw a 5*, but I saw Fischl was SS tier so I stuck with it. Way later on down the road I realized way too late that that's really only if you have her C6. Not that she isn't extremely good anyway, but the thing that led me to believe as a new player that she may as well count as a 5* and I was good to keep playing was a dumb tier list. I'm really happy with my account, but in the back of my mind, it bugs me that had I started over and made sure to roll a 5* I'd have 1) had a much better time of early game and 2) have an extra 5* right now.
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Jan 13, 2021 15:58
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i mean that list and most others specify if a certain constellation level is what makes the character worthy of that tier
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Jan 13, 2021 16:07
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The only tier list that matters is the tier list in your heart (Jean is the best and I still want Qiqi and am jealous of everyone pulling her constellations even if they aren't great). Also: Kaeya bottom tier hard carry? List is sus. MajorBonnet fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 16:14
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that tier list makes it seem like some characters have different chins in this game and I'm not sure I believe it.
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Jan 13, 2021 16:14
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Almost got all of the characters I think I will use to level 60 or level 70 (Only 1 80). Depending on the last talent I pushed a few to the next ascension but left them at level 60. I just don't have the mats to get everyone to 60/70 at the moment so I am focusing on the top 10 I know I will use.
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Jan 13, 2021 17:02
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Level a character if you'll use them now. It doesn't become harder to level characters later on and there isn't a reason to level speculatively.
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Jan 13, 2021 17:05
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a bunch of those lower tiers are probably characters he doesn't really care about or hasn't thought about in a while (people started evaluating kaeya way higher when the cryo set was added). the best tier lists are always the ones with math to back them up, because unless the game is extremely simplistic your gut reaction will never be better than an incredibly specific strategy devised by an autistic man.
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Jan 13, 2021 17:14
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Tae posted:Ning is the true op character when 1.3 comes
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Jan 13, 2021 18:13
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Sweet, pulled Ganyu on literally my first pull of the banner! I was still trying to get Albedo until the very end, so it's like I just barely missed him :/ Oh well, at least I have an OP ice rocket launcher goat girl!
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Jan 13, 2021 18:24
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Tae posted:Ning is the true op character when 1.3 comes unless the -15% res from geo resonance triples her damage I don't see her jumping ahead of Ganyu
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Jan 13, 2021 18:39
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Does anyone know if the Blizzard Strayer 2pc benefits the crit chance of the attack that initially applies cryo, or is it only followup attacks?Fur20 posted:im honestly relieved to be done with bounties. my final one today was in the haunted forest behind qingce village, and my hint points alternated between being at the top of the mountain and the bottom of the mountain I'd just like to take a moment to bitch about the teleport point in that haunted forest, where I aggro and am attacked by a lightning fly before I even finish loading in every single time.
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Jan 13, 2021 18:44
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Vargs posted:Does anyone know if the Blizzard Strayer 2pc benefits the crit chance of the attack that initially applies cryo, or is it only followup attacks? the wording implies that they have to already be affected by Cryo for the extra crit chance to apply. so, if you're just shooting with Ganyu without proccing any reactions, everything except the very first shot gets the extra crit. of course this game has had issues with wording in the past so it could work differently internally
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Jan 13, 2021 18:54
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It's not unconditional 20% crit rate for cryo damage. That would be a bit op.
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Jan 13, 2021 18:57
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Doesn't the initial hit apply cryo which would give the frost flake the buff must of the time?
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Jan 13, 2021 19:13
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For what it's worth, if a frostflake arrow applies cryo/freeze, then the bloom AOE damage from it WILL get the boosted crit rate.
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Jan 13, 2021 19:14
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Framboise posted:I have no idea how anyone is 100% done with rep stuff already. I've maxed everything out that I possibly can, as far as I know, and I still am about 80 points short of maxing out Mondstadt (I did all of Liyue's rep stuff first). Yeah, I don't know how it would be possible. I've maxed out everything short of the first one or two bounties doing the 60/80 ones by mistake and having one or two quests missing, so I should only be 60-80 short of what you could maximally have by now, and I have something like 200+ points left in Mondstadt. Joink posted:Make money? Selling my grandma's wedding ring to a pawn shop to get primos Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 19:19
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What artifact sets you guys running with Ganyu? Is the strayer 4 piece the best overall?
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Jan 13, 2021 19:21
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Vargs posted:Does anyone know if the Blizzard Strayer 2pc benefits the crit chance of the attack that initially applies cryo, or is it only followup attacks? Only if the enemy is affected by cryo already. Its why the set isnt very good for Chong while its very good for Kaeya.
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Jan 13, 2021 19:23
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AshtonDragon posted:For what it's worth, if a frostflake arrow applies cryo/freeze, then the bloom AOE damage from it WILL get the boosted crit rate. Also a note on Sucrose Carry: Each of her attack types has a separate internal cooldown on causing Swirl. If using her for that purpose you need to make sure to weave Charged Attacks and Skill/Burst uses in between her normals. Each has a roughly 1.5s ICD but they all run independently so tapping attack, then holding it, then tapping skill will result in 3 consecutive Swirls. You can rotate like that and have extremely high uptime, which with Fischl will also mean constant A4 triggers as an Electro Swirl is an Electro reaction. There is a good chance that Carry Sucrose wants DPS gear over EM due to her high field presence and the unlikelihood that anyone other than her will proc a reaction. So probably Crit, Anemo, ATK. Don't run crit stats if running hard EM though since Swirl can't crit (but know the Anemo hit that triggers Swirl can). Fischl in particular does a lot more raw damage than she tends to do reaction damage, and Xingqiu will almost never trigger reactions when Sucrose is involved, and tests have shown Sucrose does more damage herself with DPS gear, so EM sharing setups are almost always gonna be for Vaporize/Melt teams instead. Remember, she doesn't buff her own EM.
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Jan 13, 2021 19:31
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Mang Tomas posted:What artifact sets you guys running with Ganyu? Is the strayer 4 piece the best overall? probably 2 glad / 2 blizzard will be all around better than 4 blizzard (at least thinking about abyss, because you might not be able to put a hydro unit into the team.) on floors where you run hydro you could swap to 4 blizzard, and floors where you can run pyro you can swap to wanderer (assuming you have venti/sucrose and want to make the investment.) if you have all the required pieces wanderer will probably be the best, but it isn't as easily farmed and is a pretty niche set otherwise
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Jan 13, 2021 19:33
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I know it seems kinda silly to complain considering how busted she is otherwise but is Ganyu's skill like...bad? I feel like it keeps the enemy taunted for a split second and then they run off or switch over to me.
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Jan 13, 2021 19:34
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She has an E?
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Jan 13, 2021 19:35
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I know it seems kinda silly to complain considering how busted she is otherwise but is Ganyu's skill like...bad? I feel like it keeps the enemy taunted for a split second and then they run off or switch over to me. Mang Tomas posted:What artifact sets you guys running with Ganyu? Is the strayer 4 piece the best overall? Tbh I think 4strayer is only not the pick in very focused melt comps (or vs slimes but who cares) simply because 4strayer is so so good with what her Q does. Focused melt comps may end up being tryhard optimal for her, but I don't see myself using them that much. No Wave fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 19:46
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Melt comps seem impossible to use unless you decide to never, ever press her E or Q. I just want a set that gets the Blizzard Strayer 2pc and Wanderer 4pc. 2pc Gladiator seems really unappealing since I'm already using Prototype Crescent at refinement 4. +18% ATK is such an incredibly tiny drop in the bucket when I'm getting +104% from that (113% when I get another refine), plus an ATK% artifact, plus ATK% substats. Vargs fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 19:57
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Vargs posted:Melt comps seem impossible to use unless you decide to never, ever press her E or Q. You should def press your Q if its a lot of mobs sucked into a venti pyronado.
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Jan 13, 2021 20:00
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Vargs posted:Melt comps seem impossible to use unless you decide to never, ever press her E or Q. Strayer is honestly a blessing as is, it effectively gives the Lavawalker 4-piece bonus merged with the crimson witch 2-piece. PLUS I get to farm the Tartaglia hydro set at the same time.
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Jan 13, 2021 20:00
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https://streamable.com/gx9jqq You don't even need to melt comp. Not shown is him also breaking his shield before his first flyby. She's probably the best boss killer imo.
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Jan 13, 2021 20:22
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Some numbers on EM Sucrose (Sac Frags + EM/EM/EM) vs. Carry Sucrose (Skyward Atlas + CR%/Anemo%/ATK%), C6 and L9 skills (L12 for E/Q) presumed: EM Sucrose: Can do an average of 2514 damage on an attack string, 2008 on a charged attack, Swirls for 2583. Skill does 4152 with a 2583 Swirl. Burst does DoT ticks of 2909, infused ticks of 747(ish), Swirls for 2583. Buffs party EM by roughly 211 (+50 on a Swirl). Assuming various things you don't need to worry about it's a personal DPS of around 5753, which is pretty bad but Sucrose as a carry is more about enabling XQ and Fischl (and Beidou or Lisa or Bennett or whoever). How often that 251 EM is helping either of them is questionable. Carry Sucrose: Can do an average of 10726 damage on an attack string, 8567 on a charged attack, Swirls for 1217. Skill does 17714 with a 1217 Swirl. Burst does DoT ticks of 12413, infused ticks of 2465(ish), Swirls for 1217. Buffs party EM by roughly 23 (+50 on a Swirl). Similar DPS calculations (other than a longer assumed CD on the Skill because of the loss of Sacrificial Fragments' CD reset effect) leads to a personal DPS of 11228 which is borderline respectable (equivalent to a similarly-geared Diluc swinging his attack combo over and over, doing only Physical damage with Crimson Witch on, so not amazing or anything). Sucrose with Venti-style DPS gear is doing almost twice the damage output in a carry role because she's not just dropping a Swirl and tagging out, so the question is how much a difference of up to 188 EM sharing makes for Fischl and whoever else is doing off-field damage for Sucrose to Swirl. If you were to give 188 EM to Diluc it could push his damage on each hit of his Skill by 14k, which sounds like far more than the gain to Sucrose from DPS gear... but we're not dealing with Diluc Vaporize here, we're dealing with, at best, Fischl/XQ Electro-Charged (if they even manage to pull it off without Sucrose Swirling away the elements entirely). So dumb math, the damage for Electro-Charged at lv90 is something like code:tl;dr If doing the Sucrose Carry build to amp off-field damage dealers, build her the way you'd build Venti with ATK% Sands (if running Bennett swapping to ER or EM is viable), Crit Circlet, and Anemo Goblet. If you're using her for transformative reactions in general, you should probably also build her for DPS as her personal damage output is hurt more than she'll amp those reactions. If you're using her to amplify Melt/Vaporize, that's when you want to stack EM on her; she can boost the DPS of Diluc/Klee by up to 6k or so just by swapping in and Swirling occasionally, which is far more than she'd do staying on the field for any length of time. Kild posted:She's probably the best boss killer imo. Although isn't Andrius immune to Cryo? But Dvalin isn't and neither of Childe's big resistance buffs are Cryo so she's tops there. Nakar fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 20:31
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Skyward Atlas with level 9 talents.... seems ambitious. Even with solar pearl and level 7 talents it looks like the damage gear would still come out ahead though.
No Wave fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 20:37
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No Wave posted:Skyward Atlas with level 9 talents.... seems ambitious. If your point is that the viability of EM Sucrose depends largely on whether you can get 5* EM artifacts for each slot and on her level and not on her talent levels, while DPS Sucrose needs to build up her personal damage output to exceed what EM Sucrose can do with Swirls, that's true; EM Sucrose is much easier to build if the artifacts drop. However, it really doesn't take a lot of investment in VV DPS artifacts for her to start outdamaging it on a personal level. Basically if you're in a position where you have both sets of gear, the EM set should be swapped in only when working with Vaporize or Melt teams. That's the ultimate point.
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Jan 13, 2021 20:42
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No Wave posted:Tbh I think 4strayer is only not the pick in very focused melt comps (or vs slimes but who cares) simply because 4strayer is so so good with what her Q does. Focused melt comps may end up being tryhard optimal for her, but I don't see myself using them that much. Eagerly awaiting whether this works out in non-whale scenarios because (assuming no Venti/Mona) this makes it sound like the optimal group for her is... her. E->Q, charge shot spam, repeat. Include the BP bow for hoovering into a single focal point for her ult. People complain about Diluc being boring but doing ridiculous damage without a team just shooting over and over sounds like a weird oversight.
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Jan 13, 2021 21:57
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It may be the opposite. It's so hard and awkward to get synergy going with her charged shots that they just made them completely overpowered independently. Like if her charged shot hit for a sane amount of damage she would be garbage as a DPS because she doesn't have convenient reaction setups. Even if Ganyu ends up being the DPS in the highest theoretical damage comp it's not like she's going to invalidate all other units. She already sucks on the current 12-3. As for her interaction with Venti Q, well, the genie's out of that bottle already and you can assume that floors relevant to that are already trivial with Venti. No Wave fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 22:25
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After playing around with her for awhile I think I've decided on what to do with Ganyu. Gonna go with the Wanderer set. Plugging it into a dps calculator, I end up doing very similar charged shot/frostflake damage with Wanderer + crit rate circlet vs Blizzard + crit damage circlet (using cryo, not freeze). Difference being that Wanderer is more reliable and has a questionably useful EM bonus, while Blizzard is far more beneficial for her Q and E but the 4pc doesn't work for the initial hit, or against enemies with innate elements, or if you've stripped cryo with another reaction. Helps that I already have some okay Wanderer artifacts while RNG has been brutally disappointing while farming Blizzard ones so far. Prototype Crescent bow. It seems pretty good and I like that it incentivizes hitting crit spots which is a more interesting way to play imo. The fact that I have this at refinement 4 solidifies this decision. Team is Ganyu-Venti-Qiqi-Diluc. Venti is a given. Qiqi for cryo resonance and heals. Taking her over Diona since a lot of what Diona does is made superfluous by Ganyu and I value super heals a bit more than shields, even though shields would be quite nice for not getting interrupted while charging. I was considering using Bennett in the healer slot but I find the small circle a little limiting in a way that it hasn't been with other characters. Ganyu really wants to be moving away from enemies and strafing around most of the time. Diluc because I can't really find anyone who works super well with Ganyu for reactions, so he's in because he's strong against the pretty significant number of enemies that Ganyu has a very hard time dealing with (cryo slimes, cryo resist enemies, anything holding a shield). I can swap to him every now and then for his skill/burst to take advantage of all of the melt, as well as make a pyro-based Venti ult to actually get Ganyu melt reactions. Pyro is the element most useful for open world stuff and he can mine ore. I also just kinda like having one character on my team who makes a good backup carry if my main eats poo poo. Xinyan could sorta fill this role too while supplying shields, but she seems so, so much worse than Diluc for dealing damage, especially since she wouldn't have supeconduct and I only have her at C0. Vargs fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Jan 14, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 22:29
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No Wave posted:It may be the opposite. It's so hard and awkward to get synergy going with her charged shots that they just made them completely overpowered independently. Like if her charged shot hit for a sane amount of damage she would be garbage as a DPS because she doesn't have convenient reaction setups. I mean, yes, if you want her to be a decent carry and her mechanics with the current roster don't synergize then she'd be crap until there was a ranged pyro applicator. The entire game is built up around these elemental synergies and fueling abilities through reactions so it feels like a bizarre outlier to have a character whose best team comp would be "three characters who can give general buffs and make one Venti if possible". It feels like they've just shifted from reactions to MAKE NUMBER BIGGER and any future releases that give those characters something to react to place them in an entirely new tier. It's also possible that I've put more thought into this than Mihoyo and they're just designing for people who stick their four favorite animes in a group. 
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Jan 13, 2021 22:57
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It's a pve game where characters are rolled for waifu/husbando purposes first and game play second.
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Jan 13, 2021 22:59
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Mailer posted:until there was a ranged pyro applicator 
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Jan 13, 2021 23:10
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I feel like I've been playing my Sucrose wrong. it occurred to me as I was gathering crystals today that when I start with an XQ wet application, swirl that and then go ham with Diluc to proc vape, I'm losing the ele resistance debuff. Should I be starting with pyro and swirling that then triggering vape?
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Jan 13, 2021 23:24
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bow carries are probably going to revolve a lot around aimed shot. if you consider that wanderer is supposed to be the equivalent of gladiator for ranged characters, it seems like charged gameplay is pretty important for those characters (though the actual implementation of it in the game mostly means people don't build that set.) the fact that good supports don't really exist yet for that gameplay style doesn't mean that there won't be any in the future. with ganyu being snap buffed before release it seems pretty clear the beta feedback wasn't positive and having the first real waifu character be a dud would probably cause a civil war in china or some poo poo. albedo came out as pretty good but not game breaking so they can probably get the power creep under control without the community losing their mind at least.
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Jan 13, 2021 23:26
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Ganyu barely interacts with the rest of the cast atm. I'm still not convinced she's going to be this SSS tier meta breaker trivializer of content. Are you guys finding it that much easier to clear content with Ganyu than you were before getting her?
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Jan 13, 2021 23:29
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I'm noticing a pretty noticeable drop in the time to clear my daily chores with her. Domains that aren't anti-ice are faster too.
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Jan 13, 2021 23:33
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