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That Italian Guy posted:Also from the OP (section on bargaining): I assume this also works in reverse? So that i.e. if one party was nominally going to be the signatory for a proposal but didn't want to be, they could pay someone else to sign instead? Whether limited only to those who also voted "aye" or not? TravelLog fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 20:14
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 Senator I can't speak for the house Treasurer, but I believe House Gambol should offer to take responsibility for the Aye vote sight-unseen* for a nominal** fee. *as in, we would sign everything that would need to be signed from the result of an aye vote no matter what, no take-backsies from anyone. **I'm not the treasurer, I'm not naming an actual number We should also be voting aye but I've already expressed that particular opinion.
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Jan 13, 2021 20:31
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 Councilmember and Treasurer Hm, interesting, interesting. We've spent a fair amount of influence on the mill thing, so what we have left is dear to us. What do my fellow house members think? Is there a price at which we could be convinced to weigh in on this matter?
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Jan 13, 2021 20:43
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TravelLog posted:I assume this also works in reverse? So that i.e. if one party was nominally going to be the signatory for a proposal but didn't want to be, they could pay someone else to sign instead? Whether limited only to those who also voted "aye" or not? Yes, as long as this is properly formulated (since you can't know for sure who's going to have the leader/signer position before the vote is over) and if it's agreed itt according to the normal rules.
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Jan 13, 2021 20:48
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Omobono posted:
 Senator A senator after my own heart. Looks like the Ayes have two offers for leadership on the table now.
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Jan 13, 2021 20:59
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Senator It does my heart good to see members of other houses jumping at the opportunity to have their house be recorded as stridently anti-slavery. Although one must muse: since it can be clearly seen from the issue that the house who takes the Leadership Role will gain a Negative Chronicle, could their insistence be from a place of personal gain? I'd hate to think that any here would put some kind of personal, familial agenda over the good of the Kingdom. In regards to my esteemed Councilmember's question I'd say the price would be very steep indeed, but I've left more detailed thoughts elsewhere (OOC:namely the house doc).
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Jan 13, 2021 21:11
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 Sitting Councilmember We see no reason not to vote Aye here, as not doing so would be devastating to the hearts and souls of The Great Mother's disciples. If our Treasurer has thoughts on how to proceed, please do what needs to be done.
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Jan 13, 2021 21:41
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The negative chronicle means that the house that signed it would get a negative Open Agenda in future, so they'd have to fight harder to make it up. But who knows - maybe it's worth it.C... posted:
Now, as for this deal... I can't withhold the agenda speculation all the time. It was one of the most exciting and enjoyable parts of the report! But I do like your idea, so I will make a counter-proposal... Counteroffer: Any house may pay House Daucus # Coins to have House Daucus not speculate on Agendas for the next # Dilemmas in a king's Reign, counting the current Dilemma if no report has yet been made for it. That strikes a nice balance between openness and political advantage. Your thoughts? [Note to That Italian Guy: If this proposal is accepted, I'd suggest it remain 'hanging in the air' for the rest of the entire series of games, and if any house's Sitting Councilmember wishes to Propose paying to shut off Agenda reports, that it be auto-accepted by House Daucus without having to have the current Sitting Councilmember for Daucus weigh in. Is this something we can do?] Quackles fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 21:49
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Magical Slave Lady Politics. I think ya'll should gently caress everything else and try to get ALL the artifacts, ALL OF THEM.
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Jan 13, 2021 22:02
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That Italian Guy posted:Also from the OP (section on bargaining): Right, I was just confused because I thought you had to make a deal with a specific person, and the leader can change during a vote because it's the person who spends the most votes, right? Or does that not happen under our rules?
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Jan 13, 2021 22:10
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Quackles posted:The negative chronicle means that the house that signed it would get a negative Open Agenda in future, so they'd have to fight harder to make it up. But who knows - maybe it's worth it. Ooc: this is the silliest of issues to pay for. If you can't see why, I'll be happy to show why in-character.
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Jan 13, 2021 22:11
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Councilmember and Treasurer I'm a bit confused by House Lethe btw. They seem scornful of the idea of the map, but are pressing to vote 'yes'? Are you working under the assumption that NOT freeing the slave will get us the map? I mean, I could see it. It's not clear what a 'No' vote is. Is a 'no' vote 'we don't free the slave, and she leaves with the merchants, and the secret along with her' or is a no vote 'We buy the slave/buy the information of the map from the merchants'? It's a bit ambiguous.
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Jan 13, 2021 22:17
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Nea posted:Right, I was just confused because I thought you had to make a deal with a specific person, and the leader can change during a vote because it's the person who spends the most votes, right? Or does that not happen under our rules? As long as both parties are ok with "House X will pay Coins to House Y if they are the leader to sign instead of them" it should be fine, as it doesn't influence the vote directly. I assume in that case there would be a "satisfaction guaranteed" clause (IE: you only pay them if they are the leaders).
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Jan 13, 2021 22:18
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Shogeton posted:
Senator The way I see it, the slave and their knowledge of the map is part of the trade deal. By voting Nay, we establish the trade deal, get the Wealth boost, the slave and their knowledge of the map. Voting Aye frees the slave, hurts the trade deal both immediately and in the long term, and (???) the map. For all we know the slave might thank us and give us the information anyways.
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Jan 13, 2021 22:29
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Omobono posted:
Navigator Speaking for the House in this matter, we would be happy to Sign the Aye and declare immutably that we oppose slavery. Perhaps the deal would be contingent on a penalty, to reduce the downside risk to Houses who are putting up higher Power stakes? Something like House <Spending Power> puts 3 coins into escrow. If the Aye vote leads to a House-specific negative outcome, House Gambol will sign our name to the card, and claim the 3 coins and the consequence. Otherwise, they return to House <Spending Power>. Quackles posted:
Navigator I don't seek to deprive you of a source of enjoyment! Please consider the offer Withdrawn with my apologies for the earlier disregard.
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Jan 13, 2021 22:31
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Sighence posted:Ooc: this is the silliest of issues to pay for. If you can't see why, I'll be happy to show why in-character.  
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Jan 13, 2021 23:18
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Sorry for the double post.C... posted:
House Cyfoeth, Dukes of Coden An old man, holding the shoulder of a young page, points at House Gambol's Navigator "Watch them and learn, boy, how they offer to take the burden of any negative consequence for any house that supports their desired outcome... for a price, of course... Masterful politicking." "The Mother tell us that slavery is barbaric and should be abolished. But things are usually complicated, a single person is of little importance in the grand scheme of things and sometimes the easier answer is used to hide someone's true motive. The kingdom has used it's wealth for the benefit of thousands of peasants. What more could we do with the riches coming from this trade agreement? It will be your job to decide on these matters soon. Pray you find the diligence to question every reason and find the truth." Fat Samurai fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 23:35
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Bellmaker posted:
Treasurer The Mother truly knows best. Freeing the slave is obviously the only course of action a righteous person could pursue. I knew this, and was willing to use our houses' coin in the service to the Mother if it was necessary to sway the other houses to this righteous cause. However it seems that more of our counterparts listen to the voice of the Mother than I had thought, so offers of worldly goods will not be necessary. Praise be to the Mother.
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Jan 14, 2021 00:11
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Navigator I think we should take on the signing regardless of if it's negative or not, personally. I would like the credit.
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Jan 14, 2021 00:21
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Nea posted:
[OOC] It will be negative. You can tell because it is black. There may be additional benefits we don't see on the dilemma card, but the ones shown are not (I don't think) ever misrepresented.
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Jan 14, 2021 00:23
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Nea posted:
Interesting. I'd be onboard if the majority of the family does. SporkChan posted:[OOC]
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Jan 14, 2021 00:36
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Shogeton posted:
Senator I think it's just that we are in favor of freeing the slave, but we do not want to kick off any sort of foolhardy goose chase through the desert. I don't think it's possible to have one without the other, so I'll leave it to our sitting councilmember which way to err.
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Jan 14, 2021 00:39
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C... posted:
That's fair. Thanks for your candor. Note that our counteroffer (coins to sponsor our reports and not list Agenda guesses) remains open to all houses.  Why not?eliasswift posted:
Sitting Councilor BTW So down to actual negotiations. I'm not sure if cards that have different outcomes sensitive to the positions of the resource tracks are a thing or not. But it is an interesting idea. How would people feel about the idea of being paid coins in exchange for their house voting automatically in the direction of the next dilemma that has a positive Influence marker?
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Jan 14, 2021 01:11
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Quackles posted:
Tensator OK, so I wasn't clear enough last time. It's because they'll have to pay off House Cyfoeth too, else we'll just do it for you instead.
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Jan 14, 2021 01:19
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Sighence posted:
Oh, nice! 
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Jan 14, 2021 01:23
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Sighence posted:
Quackles posted:Oh, nice! Subtlety is an art lost to House Daucus. I didn't catch it either.
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Jan 14, 2021 01:47
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 Council member and Treasurer "Hmm." The monocled noble looks around the council chamber and his notes on the state of the Treasury. Then he focus on the notes, listening as the houses agents report to him. Gambol, moving towards Aye, releasing the slave Cyfoeth is leaning towards Nay, but weakly. Lethe is saying Aye, and Daucus is silent about it. "Slavery isn't very conductive to our businss, so I'm leaning towards Aye. Also, I like those reports, it helps with the records." grandalt fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Jan 14, 2021 |
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Jan 14, 2021 02:02
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Shogeton posted:
Sitting Councilmember We are not confused. It would be better for all if she was free. As an additional benefit, keeping her out of the hands of slavers means they cannot pursue this Golden Map for their own benefit (and they WILL do so, if for no other reason than to enslave the rest of her people). It is better the map be in our hands than someone else's. Blessed be The Mother.
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Jan 14, 2021 02:23
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Senator I fear that whatever our personal feelings on the matter may be, our recent expenditures mean we simply lack the capital to push strongly for it one way or another. It's clear the other Houses are very passionate regarding this issue - perhaps we could reap the benefits of that passion by sitting this one out.
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Jan 14, 2021 02:43
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Quackles posted:
Do you have a figure in mind?
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Jan 14, 2021 03:51
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C... posted:
Sitting Councilor How about : 3 Coins in exchange for House Gambol to vote as House Daucus wishes, with at least 2 Power, on the next Dilemma that has a Positive Influence marker? Payment on delivery of House Gambol's vote. This is a Proposal.
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Jan 14, 2021 04:29
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Navigator See what my esteemed Family has to say in our Sheet.
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Jan 14, 2021 05:17
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eliasswift posted:
House Cyfoeth, Dukes of Coden Senator Which doesn't mean we'd agree with your evaluations, so maybe there is some interest in having a variety of opinions out there: For example, I think the pattern of votes indicates that House Gambol are Extremist (their house reputation seems to point that way, too) and House Lethe are Anyway, given the stated votes, I'd like to suggest, for my House consideration, a trade: we'll pay 3 coins for an (at least) Nay 2 vote.
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Jan 14, 2021 07:40
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Thank you for the kind offer, but I'm not sure we can afford it! Here's why: Mostly Accurate Senate Status Report brought to you by House Daucus Power/Coins House Gambol: 9 Power, 15 Coins House Cyfoeth: 4 Power, 9 Coins House Daucus: 6 Power, 14 Coins House Pinchay: 10 Power, 4 Coins House Lethe: 11 Power, 11 Coins Prestige/Crave Currently all Houses should have 0 Prestige and 0 Crave. This will change over time. Hidden Agenda Prediction Important: These are all guesses, which will be compiled and updated during each dilemma based on previous actions and results. House Gambol's tendency to cut deals appears to have been tempered by public-spirited opinions right now. Agenda: Greedy Confidence: #### House Cyfoeth appears to favor raising resources... I think. If their own assessments are accurate, they can't have the Extremist agenda, which leaves a logical conclusion, through inference. Agenda: Opulent Confidence: ##__ House Daucus has a headache. Agenda: A Black Lotus card someone played 'Flip It or Rip It' with Confidence: — House Pinchay seems to be following popular opinion. Agenda: Opportunist Confidence: ##__ House Natar appears to be leading the charge on moral grounds. A solid position, if one hard to read politically. Agenda: Moderate Confidence: ##__ So, back to politicking. House Cyfoeth, if we were to side with you with Nay, we'd have to spend a lot of Power to clinch the deal, and end up bust. I'm... not honestly sure it's worth it - we get rich, but we look like the villains of the piece. Perhaps another time? 😅
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Jan 14, 2021 09:33
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Hey there, got a few more qqs about Sheet usage so I'll try to get some guidelines down I'm trying not to set down too strict of a rule cause on one hand I don't want to have to police the sheets and on the other I would like for people to be able to talk about their high level strategies in private if they want to do so, while keeping the thread the main point of contact for comms. The general idea of Fair Usage is:
I am aware that not setting down very hard rules may be frustrating for you, especially since more vague rules could be "gamed" more easily and I appreciate the need for some kind of priviledge comms channel for high secrecy discussions - like talking about agenda tiers, achievement chasing or even general high level strategy (IE: we should try to get Wealth as the highest resource in the tracker). Right now the level of sheet chatter is quite different, with some Houses barely using them at all and other having a bit more of a discussion, but everything has been kosher so far. EDIT: also, we have passed the midpoint for this vote! Deadline for submitting your votes is in about 24h from now. That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Jan 14, 2021 |
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Jan 14, 2021 12:53
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Councilmember and Treasurer I can understand that House Daucus is considering passing, but could I interest you in getting involved in this discussion anyway. if both of us stay at the sidelines and consolidate power, we'll both recover less, and the other Houses can get away with investing but a little bit. I offer 1 coin to House Daucus to offer at least 1 power to Nay
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Jan 14, 2021 13:05
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I was cleaning up my PM inbox cause it was bursting and I may have accidentally deleted almost everything  So if I haven't reached out to you via PM right now to say that I have received your order and you have already submitted your votes, could you please resend your Dilemma 3 ones? Apologies and thanks
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Jan 14, 2021 16:25
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Shogeton posted:
Not a great deal for Daucus, as I see it. Abstain: Gain 2-3 power Nay: Lose 1 power, gain 1 coin. Given the exchange rate has been 1-2 coins per 1 power..
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Jan 14, 2021 18:36
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Only if they actually end up spending that power. Possibly, they bid some power, possibly driving up the other houses bid, meaning there'd be more in the pot for them next turn, not have to spend their own power, and get a coin for it.
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Jan 14, 2021 18:49
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Senator My esteemed Housemember and Sitting Councilmember has a point, Power is only spent if the side you vote on wins, so it could be seen as 1 coin for free at that point.
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Jan 14, 2021 19:15
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