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paradoxGentleman posted:Companies can afford to be choosy because the world is full of people desperate for a job. Which is what makes the fact that communism is pretty much impossible to rebuild all the more tragic. Build. From a leftist perspective Communism has never been achieved/built, because it is the end goal that a socialist state guided by communist values works towards. None of our historical Communist states ever truly came close. Second, you don't want to rebuild the loving USSR, even viewing it from a leftist perspective it was loving terrible, perhaps most of all in terms of labor rights and relations, and that's not even getting into a whole host of other issues. Even though the present state of Russia and much of the former Soviet Union often isn't great (and in some cases might arguably be a bit worse),don't take anecodtes about old people's nostalgia at face value, this is much the same as you would do for old people in Europe or the United States. Having finished the game yesterday, one thing I've been kind of thinking of is that some of the themes reminded me a bit of Pathologic (1 or 2, take your pick), specifically as regards the ideas of building a utopia. While this game is more realistic and actually tries to portray a kind of reality, I did kind of see a bit of similarity aroudn that theme. Specifically the vision and the dreams of the utopian builders, contrasted with "ordinary" people who have to suffer through building it, and then the open question if the utopia is even achievable or anything at all like the dreamers imagined. That more closely describes Pathologic, but I felt like I saw some stuff reminiscent of it in the contrast between on the one side the text for the cvommunist dialogue, the flavor text for the Mazovian economics thought and the deserter (not to mention how the experience of failure and the preoccupation with orthodoxy and ideological purity is communicated as resulting in a deeply misanthropic and pessimistic outlook) against the Union, which while shown to be imperfect, diverse and at times downright corrupt, also genuinely and confidently works for the betterment of the people of Martinaise.
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Jan 14, 2021 09:42
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paradoxGentleman posted:Companies can afford to be choosy because the world is full of people desperate for a job. Which is what makes the fact that communism is pretty much impossible to rebuild all the more tragic. How did you presumably play and beat this game and fundamentally misunderstand one of its key political points this badly.
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Jan 14, 2021 10:24
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Soysaucebeast posted:Seriously, I got me a fancy BFA and have worked nothing but retail jobs or call center jobs until I was over 30, and even the job I have now requires any degree, not something specific (and it really doesn't need that requirement. A highschooler could do my job). Just about everyone my age had a degree, and the people younger than me were working towards them. If you're not getting one of the very specific sorts of degrees that basically gets you a specific career right out of college, they're almost worthless at this point. My boyfriend never went to college and has been thinking about going and asked me if I thought he should. I told him truthfully that if it was something he wanted to do then he should, but in my opinion it was hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt for no tangible benefit. Another example of how qualification inflation has become rampant, my dad got a job in a lab at a university when he was finishing secondary/high school, and promptly dropped out since no qualifications were necessary. That exact same job that in the 80s just required basic literacy and numeracy now requires a biology degree despite no significant changes to the role.
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Jan 14, 2021 10:24
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Randarkman posted:Having finished the game yesterday, one thing I've been kind of thinking of is that some of the themes reminded me a bit of Pathologic (1 or 2, take your pick), specifically as regards the ideas of building a utopia. While this game is more realistic and actually tries to portray a kind of reality, I did kind of see a bit of similarity aroudn that theme. Specifically the vision and the dreams of the utopian builders, contrasted with "ordinary" people who have to suffer through building it, and then the open question if the utopia is even achievable or anything at all like the dreamers imagined. lmao i never really thought of, literally speaking, how the useless freak physics defying buildings or people bitching about the totally insane layout of the town ties into this until you just said it and i really like it
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Jan 14, 2021 10:40
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Verviticus posted:lmao i never really thought of, literally speaking, how the useless freak physics defying buildings or people bitching about the totally insane layout of the town ties into this until you just said it and i really like it Pathologic is great. Everyone go buy it. I want there to still be hope for the other characters being given a proper treatment in Pathologic 2. Go buy that. It has to be experienced as something almost completely different when it comes to video games and how they tell a story and evoke feelings, let's plays and plot summaries can't really do it justice because of how closely the experience of taking in the plot is tied into what the game and its weird and clunky mechanics are trying (and in my opinion succeeding) at having you feel.
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Jan 14, 2021 10:59
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i think pathologic hd can be experienced to some amount in someone elses playthough but pathologic 2 absolutely cannot be. and yeah everyone who played de should go buy p2 at the very least
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Jan 14, 2021 11:20
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Verviticus posted:i think pathologic hd can be experienced to some amount in someone elses playthough but pathologic 2 absolutely cannot be. and yeah everyone who played de should go buy p2 at the very least I think Pathologic 1/HD is more something you'll attempt to conquer after you've played Pathologic 2. Like seriously start with 2, anyone who might happen to read this. A big part of what draws me to think of Pathologic when I played DE is that they were both very much games that felt like they actually were about something and had something important to say and did so with real artistic merit. Also both are on the short list of games which have elicited genuine and strong emotional responses in me beyond just simple enjoyment. Though of the two there I think Pathologic scores higher on the emotional response and investment, but it is also a much more thoroughly negative (and deliberately so) experience than DE. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 11:41 on Jan 14, 2021 |
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Jan 14, 2021 11:34
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Larry Parrish posted:How did you presumably play and beat this game and fundamentally misunderstand one of its key political points this badly. I am referring to real life. Also I feel like the game makes an argument for the hopelessness of the communist dream, given that the thought associated with it straight up says that it got chopped up and stompled flat and the pieces used to line a birdcage. I'm also growing more and more depressed and disillusioned with the world though so I might be biased. e: I guess I was also making an half-joke about communism being an impossible dream both here and in reality but honestly I should just shut up and start talking again when I'm in a better mood. so I'll do that. paradoxGentleman fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Jan 14, 2021 |
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Jan 14, 2021 13:03
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paradoxGentleman posted:I am referring to real life. This was sort of my take-away, too - that no matter what ideology you identify with, it eventually sucks and will end up being used by corrupt people to hurt people. And none of it matters because eventually everything falls apart and gets consumed by the Pale. That might've just been the result of my sad, apologetic, boring-gently caress centrist playthrough though.
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Jan 14, 2021 15:11
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You should be a fascist (after you get a drink) because you will make them pay (after you get a drink) and make Revachol great again (after you get a drink). Also you really need a drink (get a drink).
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Jan 14, 2021 15:12
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Imo the game about failing-forward, about confronting the wreckage of the past and still having the guts to try something new, about something impossible and inexplicable and beautiful happening, is not about how everything and everyone sucks and nothing good will ever happen again.
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Jan 14, 2021 15:14
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Eason the Fifth posted:This was sort of my take-away, too - that no matter what ideology you identify with, it eventually sucks and will end up being used by corrupt people to hurt people. And none of it matters because eventually everything falls apart and gets consumed by the Pale. no, it's the result of The Cop not having friends. or at least, being used to thinking they don't have friends. Sorry, Jacques.  Lightningproof posted:Imo the game about failing-forward, about confronting the wreckage of the past and still having the guts to try something new, about something impossible and inexplicable and beautiful happening, is not about how everything and everyone sucks and nothing good will ever happen again.
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Jan 14, 2021 15:28
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Man the replies really make me want to play the game again so see what else it throws at me, but I also want to wait for the new edition coming out with all the voices
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Jan 14, 2021 15:31
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Eason the Fifth posted:Man the replies really make me want to play the game again so see what else it throws at me, but I also want to wait for the new edition coming out with all the voices The guy upthread is right... you should play Pathologic 2
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Jan 14, 2021 16:01
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Lightningproof posted:Imo the game about failing-forward, about confronting the wreckage of the past and still having the guts to try something new, about something impossible and inexplicable and beautiful happening, is not about how everything and everyone sucks and nothing good will ever happen again.  I wouldn't say that it endorses an exact way forward, but it does feel like a pretty explicit rejection of capitalist realism.
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Jan 14, 2021 16:35
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I guess that little Esprit de Corps thing that was shared earlier does imply that hope springs eternal.
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Jan 14, 2021 16:42
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My takeaway was that the ideals of communism as presented in the game are worth pursuing despite their impossibility. It's a counter to despair. That even if something is doomed there may yet be a miracle hidden in there.
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Jan 14, 2021 19:17
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I'm probably going to be put against the wall when the revolution comes but I think it'd be nicer to live in 1970s ussr than america from 2000 to present.
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Jan 14, 2021 20:12
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My political goal is to be guillotined for being insufficiently revolutionary.
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Jan 14, 2021 20:18
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Samovar posted:My political goal is to be guillotined for being insufficiently revolutionary. I wanna go full Robespierre. Go all in at first, realize we've gone too far as the mob turns on me. Accidentally shoot my own cheek out and THEN get guillotined.
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Jan 14, 2021 21:28
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This is extremely fuckin' tenuous, but the degree/lowbrow job talk made me think of Anthony Mackie's alcoholic philandering dying physics degree having EMT in Synchronic. If you squint at it (a lot) that movie could do well in the DE world...
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Jan 14, 2021 21:32
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bobtheconqueror posted:My takeaway was that the ideals of communism as presented in the game are worth pursuing despite their impossibility. Volition is quite straightforward about it in one of its best moments: it is exactly because it is impossible that you should do it
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Jan 14, 2021 21:35
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dead gay comedy forums posted:Volition is quite straightforward about it in one of its best moments: it is exactly because it is impossible that you should do it Volition was Eduardo Galeano all along!
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Jan 14, 2021 21:55
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paradoxGentleman posted:I am referring to real life. you need to stop internalizing liberal thought processes like 'nothing can ever be better'
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Jan 14, 2021 22:03
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It's almost as if one of the most important, powerful moments in the game can only be experienced by someone who chooses to believe in something impossible.
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Jan 14, 2021 22:15
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wiegieman posted:It's almost as if one of the most important, powerful moments in the game can only be experienced by someone who chooses to believe in something impossible. I too enjoyed Savoir Faire's teleportation
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Jan 14, 2021 22:17
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Larry Parrish posted:you need to stop internalizing liberal thought processes like 'nothing can ever be better' And realize the communard flag has antlers because antlers regrow.  Un jour je serai de retour près de toi.
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Jan 15, 2021 01:57
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I just went to check out the Pathologic games on Steam since they're getting good press ITT and Pathologic Classic HD is currently 90% off, I just bought it for $1.60 in New Zealand monies - less than the price of a can of Coke in most places. No special on 2 but I've wishlisted it and will keep an eye on it.
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Jan 15, 2021 04:20
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Wafflecopper posted:I just went to check out the Pathologic games on Steam since they're getting good press ITT and Pathologic Classic HD is currently 90% off, I just bought it for $1.60 in New Zealand monies - less than the price of a can of Coke in most places. No special on 2 but I've wishlisted it and will keep an eye on it. Just a heads up, pathologic 2 is a pseudo-remake of 1. 1 is a lot, lot more Eurojank than 2 is.
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Jan 15, 2021 04:31
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Pathologic 2 is in the Humble Monthly for January so it's probably the best deal you could get it for. https://www.humblebundle.com/
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Jan 15, 2021 04:36
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Wafflecopper posted:I just went to check out the Pathologic games on Steam since they're getting good press ITT and Pathologic Classic HD is currently 90% off, I just bought it for $1.60 in New Zealand monies - less than the price of a can of Coke in most places. No special on 2 but I've wishlisted it and will keep an eye on it. Not sure if it's available in NZ, but Humble Bundle's monthly has Pathologic 2 right now.
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Jan 15, 2021 04:39
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Just finished the game today; hell of a ride! Tried to play it before a long time ago in 2019 but I bounced off of it after about 10 hours, only barely making it to the second day. Had similar early difficulties when I tried to replay it this time, but luckily I was able to push more onwards all the way to the end. The first day was quite challenging to get through on multiple levels: in-game-world, you are in a really lovely position where everyone holds all the cards and you're hopelessly lost and on a time limit, and in-real-world, the game is quite unique in its mechanics that some of it can be confusing if you try to approach it like any other RPG. Wondering if I should replay it. On one hand, I feel like the game is kind of about living with your decisions and sticking with it, so it lends itself to one playthrough for your own personal story, but on the other hand, I was amazed at some of the differences I was seeing between playthroughs, my own and the ones I'm hearing from others, so it would almost feel like an insult if I didn't explore further with another play. Guess we'll see. If I had any complaints about the game, they would be quite minor, stuff like: 1) My playthrough started off with me being very much a Boring Moralist Cop: I was sticking to just straightforwardly solving the case to make Kim proud, not getting involved with weird wacky adventures and political rabbit holes. (I kind of do this a lot with games, just power through main story) However, as I kept playing, before I knew it I was becoming a wacky cop. It felt like the game was subtly pushing me in more of a wacky adventures direction: skill checks dependent on collecting so many weird tangents (the FELD building shivers check) and dialogue options getting more incredulous by the minute that I almost had to pick them (boombox on the boat with kim? heck yes). Obviously I'm glad I went that direction as I had a lot of fun doing wacky adventures (was not expecting a goddamn cryptid to show up at the end for example and can't imagine NOT experiencing that) and I just took it as my character kind of regaining their own original wacky characterization back into me, bit-by-bit, but maybe I could see it as kind of annoying if someone didn't want to approach it that way? I dunno. 2) Dialogue options were a bit confusing at times. In the beginning, it felt like they did a lot of clever traps in the system where you can screw yourself over by selecting every single option in the dialogue: you know, saying something stupid that makes a future dialogue skill check get a negative because you've put yourself in a bad position with that person. I liked these traps because it made it so you don't just go mindlessly go down the options selecting all of them like many other RPGS: I'd actually think what I want to select and what I want to omit. Obviously I could be missing something because I haven't been exhaustive with the game, but it felt like they did away with this as the game went on? In the later parts of the game it felt like you were expected, and even outright told by your thoughts, to go through and select each and every one of the options from top to bottom. In fact, a lot of the flow of conversations seemed to be built on this: dialogue would become really awkward and wrongly assume knowledge when I'd select, say, the third option before selecting the first and second. Kinda felt like they lost what they initially built, but again, in a similar fashion to above, maybe this goes with my character getting more comfortable with being a cop and thus, not saying stupid things in the first place (well, at least not incredibly stupid things). Examples of this were confrontations like Ruby and the tribunal: I expected to have to be careful and perhaps only be able to select a limited amount of responses lest I make them too impatient and suffer penalties, but no, it seemed like the best thing to do was say every thing as it only netted positives, no negatives (of course, perhaps there is some magic based on my skill build that is causing this?) FutureCop fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Jan 15, 2021 |
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Jan 15, 2021 06:18
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Definitely play Pathologic 2 first. 1 is awful, even though it's fantastic. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Jan 15, 2021 |
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Jan 15, 2021 07:28
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FutureCop posted:and on a time limit You're not though. The game kinda makes it feel like you are, but you're not. Also thanks everyone for telling me to just skip P1 and grab P2 on the Humble Bundle, I'll do that.
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Jan 15, 2021 07:53
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Wafflecopper posted:Also thanks everyone for telling me to just skip P1 and grab P2 on the Humble Bundle, I'll do that. Another thing. Don't fiddle with the difficulty, even if they added the option to do that. devs posted:Pathologic 2 is supposed to be almost unbearable, otherwise the effect is lost. We concede that everyone has their own limits to push. But we strongly advise against making the game easy for yourself. It's also not necessarily mechanically difficulty, it's more hard in how it strains and frustrates you with deliberately unfair and stressful mechanics. Also don't be afraid of dying (not the first times at least there's some easter eggs there) or reloading saves. Don't take the deal.
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Jan 15, 2021 08:20
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Randarkman posted:Also don't be afraid of dying (not the first times at least there's some easter eggs there) or reloading saves. I'm confused. These seem like mutually exclusive pieces of advice.
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Jan 15, 2021 08:24
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Wafflecopper posted:I'm confused. These seem like mutually exclusive pieces of advice. You'll understand. Dying has consequences and it applies to all of your saves. edit: though going back for with a reload is probably going to be deterring because you'll kind of dread having to suffer through something you already did again and you can't be 100% certain things will work out the same way and if you'll end up in a better position. It's a strange game. On the comparison of Pathologic 1 and 2. The first game might have better music, it's very different from 2's music (which is also great) at least. Compare 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQDRjbxXUmc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDL6c2h95hI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao91HN1dZWk 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meEoZctCMBo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDoMUwtbt_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utD_uco2gck Randarkman fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Jan 15, 2021 |
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Jan 15, 2021 08:26
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EorayMel posted:I too enjoyed Savoir Faire's teleportation I choose to believe Kim was lying, including to himself, about seeing you climb up the ladder, because surely it would have hurt your health to grasp the sharp metal pieces falling off
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Jan 15, 2021 09:32
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Randarkman posted:You'll understand. Dying has consequences and it applies to all of your saves. edit: though going back for with a reload is probably going to be deterring because you'll kind of dread having to suffer through something you already did again and you can't be 100% certain things will work out the same way and if you'll end up in a better position. It's a strange game. all that said, do not try to savescum dying specifically. if you alt-f4 or something immediately after you died to try to avoid it you can gently caress stuff up
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Jan 15, 2021 10:03
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my bony fealty posted:I choose to believe Kim was lying, including to himself, about seeing you climb up the ladder, because surely it would have hurt your health to grasp the sharp metal pieces falling off What about Trant, though? If you do it at night he's not there, but if he is I can't imagine he wouldn't talk about actual teleportation.
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Jan 15, 2021 11:33
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