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I build multiple giant shipyard complexes all through my empire, and a gateway is a prereq for building one of those.
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Jan 15, 2021 13:48
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ilkhan posted:I build multiple giant shipyard complexes all through my empire, and a gateway is a prereq for building one of those. Why not just build a mega shipyard? That alone can produce all of the battleships you will ever need.
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Jan 15, 2021 13:49
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Yami Fenrir posted:Why not just build a mega shipyard? That alone can produce all of the battleships you will ever need.
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Jan 15, 2021 13:51
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ilkhan posted:I stick one of those into my empire too. What the hell are you doing to need this much ship production, are you playing on grand admiral while declaring war on the entire galaxy without ever building a single research lab? During a 25x endgame crisis?
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Jan 15, 2021 13:53
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Yami Fenrir posted:What the hell are you doing to need this much ship production, are you playing on grand admiral while declaring war on the entire galaxy without ever building a single research lab? During a 25x endgame crisis? E: yeah, 8 shipyard systems, with one being the mega. 2667 fleet used out of 2755. 1482 pops, 1278 sprawl out of 814. 62 out of 51 starbase, but I just grabbed a bunch before next group declared war and need to clean those up. 19 fleets, 12 are titan-less assault fleets at about 35k fleet power, 6 are main fleets which I use to hold choke points and had to double up during the last war as they could beat a single fleet. Those are 80k fleet power. I control a little over half the galaxy and am into repeatable techs to 4-6-ish level. ilkhan fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Jan 15, 2021 |
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Jan 15, 2021 14:00
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ilkhan posted:Mostly to speed up and spread out repairs and upgrades. Jumping fleets around and going in and out of battle makes rebuilding fleets during a war incredibly messy, so in want them rebuilt and upgraded asap when I can spare them mid war or between. When I'm at war my fleets aren't at home, and my recent games have had very quick turn around from war to war. Each fleet gets its own home shipyard. Only one gets upgraded to citadel, which is the mega shipyard system, which can rebuild any missing titans/colossus/etc. How do you even have the spare starbase cap? I'm always short on those, feels like. also I usually just my enemy's starbases to repair. Since that's a thing you can do and all.
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Jan 15, 2021 14:01
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Yami Fenrir posted:What the hell are you doing to need this much ship production, are you playing on grand admiral while declaring war on the entire galaxy without ever building a single research lab? During a 25x endgame crisis? I can't speak for ilkhan, but in my case I have organically grown networks of decentralized yards because of the way I expand: In the very beginning, every time reaching a border gets cumbersome, I make a fleetbase with lots of shipyards right there to support a local fleet. Rinse, and repeat. Later one, even with older bases being slowly repurposed, there's suddenly this extensive ring of yards pared with border fortresses all around the outside of my territory. And then it's easier to just connect those fleetbases with each other and my original yards deep inside.
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Jan 15, 2021 14:04
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Libluini posted:I can't speak for ilkhan, but in my case I have organically grown networks of decentralized yards because of the way I expand: In the very beginning, every time reaching a border gets cumbersome, I make a fleetbase with lots of shipyards right there to support a local fleet. Ah I suppose both of you just play a lot wider than I tend to.
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Jan 15, 2021 14:06
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Similar to libluini's style, I've only really been playing machine determined exterminators so it's all wide total war for me, and I've been sticking shipyards at my chokepoints to my next target. Midgame I'll have 4 or 5 shipyards at the edges of my empire for 4 or 5 independent attack fleets, basically. As my empire expands, those shipyards get decommissioned into anchorages as new shipyards go up at my new chokepoints for my next targets. Rinse, repeat. I haven't ever gotten to what to do for the endgame though because I burn out once I control like 90% of the map.
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Jan 15, 2021 14:15
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Staltran posted:I think that's only when you're at peace with them, as a side effect of being unable to close your borders with FEs. This is correct
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Jan 15, 2021 18:11
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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I'm trying this playing tall thing and I quite like it. I'm only sticking with six systems, and I'm playing void dwellers. I got the horizon signal event and now have a ton of tomb worlds (including a size 30 one I want to turn into an ecu) in my home system, plus I own the cybrex alpha system and the rubricator system with the relic world. I used to spam anchorage starbases for fleet capacity, but I imagine I'll need a fortress world or two with this setup, but I'm mostly doing well with turtling right now. Next game, I kind of want to be either fanatic purifier, devouring swarm or determined exterminator, as I haven't played one of those yet.
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Jan 15, 2021 18:32
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People playing tall.. what is the game end for you? For me it feels natural to try achieve dominance across the galaxy by either conquering or vassalizing everyone. And maybe deal with the various crises. What about the tall play? You just vassalize or do you have some different goals altogether? And do you also play tall in multi and how does that work for you?
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Jan 15, 2021 18:34
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I intend to vassalize and federate eventually for this game. I intend to start that snowball rolling once I hammer out the kinks in my alloy production and when I get bored. I might claim all of l-space when that opens up as mine because why not.
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Jan 15, 2021 18:44
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SirTagz posted:People playing tall.. what is the game end for you? For me it feels natural to try achieve dominance across the galaxy by either conquering or vassalizing everyone. And maybe deal with the various crises. The endgame is megastructures. You can do a lot with Ecu's, those and a bunch of habitats. Playing tall allows gaining a pretty sizable tech lead a lot earlier. You can vassalize if you want but I usually just make a federation, really.
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Jan 15, 2021 18:56
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Colgate posted:I'm trying this playing tall thing and I quite like it. I'm only sticking with six systems, and I'm playing void dwellers. I got the horizon signal event and now have a ton of tomb worlds (including a size 30 one I want to turn into an ecu) in my home system, plus I own the cybrex alpha system and the rubricator system with the relic world. Of the 3, Devouring Swarm is my favorite. Eating mechanical pops gives a shitload of alloys.
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Jan 15, 2021 19:05
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And Tyler Too! posted:Of the 3, Devouring Swarm is my favorite. Eating mechanical pops gives a shitload of alloys. It's especially hilarious when you have a machine empire (possibly even an exterminator). Just turn their entire empire into battleships! Oh and Hives are ridiculously good at playing wide (and tall, too, hilariously enough, because their admin cap building is also their unity building which is borderline broken)
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Jan 15, 2021 19:12
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SirTagz posted:People playing tall.. what is the game end for you? For me it feels natural to try achieve dominance across the galaxy by either conquering or vassalizing everyone. And maybe deal with the various crises.
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Jan 15, 2021 19:18
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If the problem is that fe are too beefy for the ai to slow them down, that seems like more bad game design than a player not being able to counter. It also means that hippy peaceful empires are completely pointless bevause you need to I start prepping for war with a fe from the start.
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Jan 15, 2021 20:46
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twistedmentat posted:If the problem is that fe are too beefy for the ai to slow them down, that seems like more bad game design than a player not being able to counter. It also means that hippy peaceful empires are completely pointless bevause you need to I start prepping for war with a fe from the start. Hippy peaceful empire =/ not having a navy. That's just how you end up in perma wars. If anything peaceful empires excel at ramping up due to the happiness/stability bonuses they get.
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Jan 15, 2021 20:53
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SirTagz posted:People playing tall.. what is the game end for you? For me it feels natural to try achieve dominance across the galaxy by either conquering or vassalizing everyone. And maybe deal with the various crises. I'm always trying to play tall, but it never works! First, simply because of settings (rather empty map, tailored to keep alien civilizations rare and a huge thing when my people encounter them, etc.) I start with having lots of real estate to cover. Alien nations eventually become a thing, and borders are established, but at that point everyone, myself included, is already a huge empire. Then eventually some evil space nazis attack, and just throwing them back and doing some liberations makes my growth spiral out of control. Then there are minor species who decide freedom sucks and want to become my vassals, or huge federations form and I either found or join one of them. Then we beat the other guys at some point, clean up the Fallen Empire and poo poo, now I control 100% of the galaxy again??? How did this happen???!
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Jan 15, 2021 21:03
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Libluini posted:I'm always trying to play tall, but it never works! First, simply because of settings (rather empty map, tailored to keep alien civilizations rare and a huge thing when my people encounter them, etc.) I start with having lots of real estate to cover. Alien nations eventually become a thing, and borders are established, but at that point everyone, myself included, is already a huge empire. I mean, if you specifically tailor your settings for wide playstyles, ... your empire's going to be wide.
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Jan 15, 2021 21:07
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Yami Fenrir posted:I mean, if you specifically tailor your settings for wide playstyles, ... your empire's going to be wide. I've been cursed by knowing too much about astronomy, so whenever I plan a new start I go and do things like "OK, habitable planets are rare as gently caress, that's just realistic" and "clearly, intelligent life is very rare, there shouldn't be too many other empires" plus evergreens like "caravaneers? more like failureneers, gently caress off" and then I guess I end up with a perfect "wide" game play run. 
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Jan 15, 2021 21:13
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Libluini posted:I've been cursed by knowing too much about astronomy, so whenever I plan a new start I go and do things like "OK, habitable planets are rare as gently caress, that's just realistic" and "clearly, intelligent life is very rare, there shouldn't be too many other empires" plus evergreens like "caravaneers? more like failureneers, gently caress off" and then I guess I end up with a perfect "wide" game play run. eh, Stellaris really isn't made to be realistic like that. Hell with settling like that even early game wars are probably more miserable than they need to be.
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Jan 15, 2021 21:16
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Libluini posted:I'm always trying to play tall, but it never works! First, simply because of settings (rather empty map, tailored to keep alien civilizations rare and a huge thing when my people encounter them, etc.) I start with having lots of real estate to cover. Alien nations eventually become a thing, and borders are established, but at that point everyone, myself included, is already a huge empire.
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Jan 15, 2021 21:16
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I'm not sure where Tall ends and Wide begins, but I generally hit a point where I go "I will not expand past this" at specific chokepoints. Then I go heavy into science, use my superior ships to force vassals and become the senate
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Jan 15, 2021 21:18
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Leal posted:I'm not sure where Tall ends and Wide begins, but I generally hit a point where I go "I will not expand past this" at specific chokepoints. Then I go heavy into science, use my superior ships to force vassals and become the senate That is pretty much the definition of Tall. Wide empires just keep on conquering until the sheer strength of the economy gained via conquered planet wins them the game.
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Jan 15, 2021 21:21
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Yami Fenrir posted:That is pretty much the definition of Tall. Ah, then I guess I just misunderstood and are still plying "Tall", even if I sometimes forget, because of my preferred map settings.
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Jan 15, 2021 21:33
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Libluini posted:Ah, then I guess I just misunderstood and are still plying "Tall", even if I sometimes forget, because of my preferred map settings. You're playing some sort of bastard child of the two. Your gameplay says tall but your settings say "unwieldy wide"
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Jan 15, 2021 21:43
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Yami Fenrir posted:Hippy peaceful empire =/ not having a navy. Hard agree. Inward perfection is the ultimate "sleeper awakens" playstyle. You can go tall, let your tech spiral out of control, build a colossus, and there will be very little that can stand against you. The downside is that this playstyle encourages hella turtling unless you wanna wage some ideology wars to pass the time.
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Jan 15, 2021 22:30
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"Tall" isn't really a gameplay style in this game. It exists in games where there are insurmountable penalties associated with expansion that can in some cases exceed the benefits from expansion. In this game, expanding is always good and more systems and planets is always better than fewer systems and planets, since the only real downsides to expansion are piddling amounts of resources, influence, and admin cap which you can build on the new planet you just colonised.
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Jan 15, 2021 22:46
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Gort posted:"Tall" isn't really a gameplay style in this game. It exists in games where there are insurmountable penalties associated with expansion that can in some cases exceed the benefits from expansion. In this game, expanding is always good and more systems and planets is always better than fewer systems and planets, since the only real downsides to expansion are piddling amounts of resources, influence, and admin cap which you can build on the new planet you just colonised. I sort of get where you're coming from if you expand too much you WILL absolutely lag behind on technology and unity because you are spending a lot more time, space and resources catching up on research labs and admin cap buildings. Consumer goods can limit you in ways you might not realize there (or the other upkeep types since they tend to be pretty large for non-standard empires). I've had games with the same build where I get megastructures in like 2270 and games where it takes till 2330. While I agree that there definitely isn't much reason to go wide other than laziness (which, with this game, honestly is a pretty good reason), it does exist.
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Jan 15, 2021 22:56
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Libluini posted:I've been cursed by knowing too much about astronomy, so whenever I plan a new start I go and do things like "OK, habitable planets are rare as gently caress, that's just realistic" https://www.newscientist.com/article/2258911-there-could-be-around-5-billion-habitable-planets-in-the-milky-way/ I'm not sure what settings you have the game on, but my PC isn't powerful enough for 5 billion planets
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Jan 15, 2021 22:58
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MrL_JaKiri posted:https://www.newscientist.com/article/2258911-there-could-be-around-5-billion-habitable-planets-in-the-milky-way/ The original Star Ruler was famous for allowing a theoretical unlimited amount of stars. I once tried to simulate something insane like 90000 stars on my old computer. Star Ruler tried its best, but after two hours of trying to launch the game my computer crashed
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Jan 15, 2021 23:21
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Yami Fenrir posted:Hippy peaceful empire =/ not having a navy. I was able to defend myself but I found it really hard to build up enough fleep cap to field an agressive force, plus you can't declare war on people if you're fanatical pacifist. Its annoying because it sounds a lot like you have to start planning for this from day 1.
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Jan 16, 2021 00:33
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You just gotta treat it like it's Morrowind. Insult them enough that they take a swing at you, then murder them.
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Jan 16, 2021 02:48
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Yami Fenrir posted:eh, Stellaris really isn't made to be realistic like that. Hell with settling like that even early game wars are probably more miserable than they need to be. Yeah the Stellaris universe is designed to be a lot more Star Trek-y than realistic. M-class planets are conveniently available as the plot demands, sentient humanoid alien species that all speak english are everywhere. Hell that's probably why planetary invasions only take a few in-game weeks to complete. The whole "planet" is just like, one town just big enough to fit on a soundstage.
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Jan 16, 2021 03:39
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All this talk of playing tall makes me want to try the platonic ideal of that playstyle, a fanatic purifier empire with Gigastructurals Birch World origin who take one (1) additional system for a Hyperstructural Assembly Yard and just destroy everything else. Bonus points for turning as many other star systems as possible into stellar systemcrafts (a solar systems worth of planets and moons assembled into a single "warship").
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Jan 16, 2021 15:21
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Is playing tall really viable? Can I carve out a small piece of space and just build up and up at my leisure in this game?
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Jan 16, 2021 15:22
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chaosapiant posted:Is playing tall really viable? Can I carve out a small piece of space and just build up and up at my leisure in this game?
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Jan 16, 2021 16:03
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Isn't the problem about playing tall these days that you actually get way more power from getting every planet in your way no matter the habitability, especially if you go for robots/robot ascension since they don't care about that?
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Jan 16, 2021 17:38
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