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Will we see Xeons with Xe?
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Jan 14, 2021 22:16
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Threadkiller Dog posted:Does the 11400 make more sense this time around, compared to the 10400? I remember reading that they'll run DDR3200 now. Putting together a cheapish gaming system for a friend this spring and it seems like a good deal. Assuming you can get it for the rumored $200/€200, then yeah, it will probably compare pretty favorably to AMD's current offerings.
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Jan 14, 2021 22:28
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track day bro! posted:Kinda tempted to go for the 11900k to replace my matx 5820K setup, I was tempted with a ryzen 5000 but you have an option of like 2 matx amd boards. Wheras there are always more options on Intel. Quite a few b550 Matx boards now, as well as x570.
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Jan 14, 2021 22:32
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Will we see Xeons with Xe? I want one with Xe + more than 20 lanes / x4/x4/x4/x4 bifurcation for my nutty super-NAS idea, but seriously doubt that's going to happen.
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Jan 14, 2021 22:33
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The 11900KF looks interesting to me. Maybe by the time those actually exist and are purchasable I'll build a new desktop with one and replace my old dual Sandy Bridge Xeon server with my 8700K.
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Jan 14, 2021 22:34
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These Z590 prices are insane. I know thats to be expected after X570 and Z490 were also insane, but cmon. The Ace/Hero/Master tier of premium boards is looking like a $499 MSRP. And thats not even the top tier anymore. Cmon man, its a motherboard.
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Jan 15, 2021 01:01
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Seems odd, x570 AMD gen4 boards weren’t that expensive iirc so they can’t claim it is due to pcie gen4 with more expensive material or extra layers..
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Jan 15, 2021 01:47
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The entire market is hosed. Trump* Chinese tariffs kicked end at the end of the year. Supplies not here are going to cost %20 more easily. *no political, I don't care
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Jan 15, 2021 02:07
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Ah yeah rona and tariffs would be reasonable potential reasons, true
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Jan 15, 2021 02:13
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Not sure why you would buy an 11900 over an 11700? Ok you lose some boost and a few mhz’s but still 8/16?
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Jan 15, 2021 02:35
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pretty much a “we don’t really have anything that’s really i9 tier but we can’t just not make an i9 without looking like knobs so it’s, uh, an i7 but clocked higher”. They are back in the situation where they have 2 variants of the product to spread across 3 segments. The only real alternative was going back to the 9th gen segmentation where i5 and i7 have SMT disabled but that makes those parts fairly unattractive when Zen3 is now performance competitive, and they would be absolutely roasted in reviews for taking SMT back out again. If you start with only the i9 being 8C16T then you obviously have to take something out of the i7s and below. And just like 9th gen - if they had done something like take SMT out of i7 (8C8T) then there is no real performance delta vs a 6C12T i5, so the i5 needs SMT cut too and congrats neither of those parts are market competitive. Not that it’s stopped Intel in the past but this was the only realistic way to segment these products without abandoning the i9 segment, without changing prices, and without making most of them uncompetitive. i9 obviously becomes kind of a dumb halo 1800X style product vs the i7 being a 1700 here, but you don’t have to buy it and the i7 will probably overclock to pretty much the same place, and some people will pay extra for a better shot at a top bin. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Jan 15, 2021 |
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Jan 15, 2021 03:07
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Yeah, actually, unless they segment out some OC feature, there's not much reason not to just get an 11700K(F) and give it a bit more voltage to reach 5 GHz all-core.
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Jan 15, 2021 03:12
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Yeah, the 11900k is sort of a prebinned 11700k, a lot like the relationship between the 10850k and 10900k now. I think only the i9 will have TVB on as well.
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Jan 15, 2021 03:23
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Mr. Smile Face Hat posted:I love how this shows him holding every Itanium 2 ever sold. So as of 2020/2021 Itanium is 100% dead my company bought into HP and the Itanium. fun fact you know how x86 intel parts are i3 i5 and i7, the itanium side is i2, i4 and i6. They are crap and dead end, and we need to replace our companies database but that is 7 years off when we offically loose all support for the itanium servers we just bought to limp along.
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Jan 15, 2021 04:29
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BobHoward posted:going down with the Itanic. lol
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Jan 15, 2021 07:23
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movax posted:I want one with Xe + more than 20 lanes / x4/x4/x4/x4 bifurcation for my nutty super-NAS idea, but seriously doubt that's going to happen.  Since it's presumably 2x PCI-Ex 4.0 x16, I'll take 20 lanes with a PXI-Ex switch on the CPU and 2x PCI-Ex 4.0 x16 with a PCI-Ex switch on the ICH. I feel that's a much more reasonable layout, and there really shouldn't be any bandwidth limits for anything you hang off PCI-Ex 4.0.
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Jan 15, 2021 14:00
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https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/15/22232554/intel-ceo-apple-lifestyle-company-cpus-commentquote:“We have to deliver better products to the PC ecosystem than any possible thing that a lifestyle company in Cupertino” makes, Gelsinger reportedly told Intel employees. Idiot. e: What I mean is: NAME your competition, acknowledge who and what they are, identify what you need to change. Don't be cute about it.
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Jan 15, 2021 15:12
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He should have called them Crapple. That would have showed 'em.
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Jan 15, 2021 16:11
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I think he's highlighting that a lifestyle company is dunking all over them and their core business and phrased it in a way to show how ridiculous it is I don't think he cares about being cute or trying to get a burn in, it's to highlight the systemic failure of the company that let this happen WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Jan 15, 2021 |
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Jan 15, 2021 16:23
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Mr. Smile Face Hat posted:https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/15/22232554/intel-ceo-apple-lifestyle-company-cpus-comment He named Apple several times in the address 
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Jan 15, 2021 16:24
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It's a good point, too. Pat please save me from my iPad mini that I can't deny the performance-in-form-factor of
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Jan 15, 2021 17:01
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WhyteRyce posted:I think he's highlighting that a lifestyle company is dunking all over them and their core business and phrased it in a way to show how ridiculous it is The problem is, Apple isn't a "lifestyle company." They're a technology company that's adopted a very successful lifestyle strategy for their product development and marketing. But, even in their lowest, darkest days, they always had very good software and hardware people on board. A lot of their issues in the past specifically came from making deliberately contrarian technology decisions and sticking with them, instead of just taking generic mass-market tech and slapping a pretty coat of industrial design on top. There are all kinds of caveats here about how this is a semi-public event, so I'm sure part of it is sending a message to employees and investors that Apple is not some unbeatable titan. But, if he's actually drinking the koolaid he's serving, it's not a good look for the future of the company.
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Jan 15, 2021 19:03
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That’s a lot of caveats and interpretations for something that can be easily explained by him saying a company that specializes in producing CPUs needs to make a better CPUs than a company that does it for ancillary reasons They absolutely need to make better products than Apple, he’s not wrong about that. But I’ll stop speculating myself since I haven’t read the full thing just the verge clickbait title WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jan 15, 2021 |
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Jan 15, 2021 19:30
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WhyteRyce posted:That’s a lot of caveats and interpretations for something that can be easily explained by him saying a company that specializes in producing CPUs needs to make a better CPUs than a company that does it for ancillary reasons Yeah, that is what I took from it: "Hey guys, we do (really) one thing, we should probably do it better than some other company who does our "thing" as a second-class-citizen side-line project (and may be doing it in large part because they don't like our products)."
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Jan 15, 2021 19:35
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DrDork posted:Yeah, that is what I took from it: And he could've phrased it like that, or just better than how he did.
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Jan 16, 2021 00:38
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:That's probably what he meant, yes. He phrased it that way to rile people up. That's what his job is. It's certainly working.
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Jan 16, 2021 00:44
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Kazinsal posted:He phrased it that way to rile people up. That's what his job is. I get it, but it makes him look smug, downplaying an existential threat and having a grasp on Apple like Steve Ballmer ca. 2001. Intel's problem is complacency, and he just looks like more of the same.
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Jan 16, 2021 00:56
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Mr. Smile Face Hat posted:I get it, but it makes him look smug, downplaying an existential threat and having a grasp on Apple like Steve Ballmer ca. 2001. I don't think anyone at Intel isn't aware that it's an existential threat. I think pointing out that the fact that the existential threat is coming from someone who doesn't even "do" processor design as a mainline product should be a wake-up call on the order of punching each of them straight in the face. Of course none of what he says (or how he says it) matters for poo poo if he can't get the company out of its doldrums, but I don't think it's lost on many why Intel is getting a new CEO months after the M1 came out.
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Jan 16, 2021 01:03
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Kazinsal posted:He phrased it that way to rile people up. That's what his job is. Unfortunately it seems like it's riling up online hardware posters looking for any excuse to get offended more than employees in the company. Hell, he said have to. And that's the existential crisis which he is outright stating. They have to make way better products than someone like Apple otherwise what is the point of any of it WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Jan 16, 2021 |
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Jan 16, 2021 01:17
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WhyteRyce posted:Unfortunately it seems like it's riling up online hardware posters looking for any excuse to get offended more than employees in the company. Employees of the company should be offended, the past decade has been a giant gently caress up
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Jan 16, 2021 01:19
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wet_goods posted:Employees of the company should be offended, the past decade has been a giant gently caress up There are a lot of smart people still there. A lot. But a lot of the rot that helped contribute to the giant gently caress ups are still there and generally aren’t personally or professionally offended by stuff like this
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Jan 16, 2021 01:25
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WhyteRyce posted:There are a lot of smart people still there. A lot. But a lot of the rot that helped contribute to the giant gently caress ups are still there and generally aren’t personally offended by stuff like this Part of remaking the culture at intel is to face hard truths like this, what's missing from this equation is if Pat is willing to show the remaining good people that he is serious and firing the same poo poo heads that probably worked with him and drove the company into the ground. I brought this up before and people were up in arms about the potential for brain drain at top levels of the company but you gotta start somewhere and my suggestion is the top of TD. Mercifully Bob fired Murthy, it's a shame he didn't do it before driving Jim away. Sohail would have still been running the place if he didn't get caught lying to the board, he should have been prosecuted wet_goods fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Jan 16, 2021 |
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Jan 16, 2021 01:29
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It's a tricky thing because brain drain did happen the last time they did mass firings. Yeah some people who should have been kicked out years ago got let go, but so did some actual good people because of politics. Other good people just decided to leave because they got mad friends got screwed or just didn't want to hang around in a depressing environment. Any mass firing is going to be tricky because all the rot is going to cover their own rear end and look out for their buddies. Pat was around long enough I hope he knows how to spot it or who the problematic actors are. Also its funny hearing the higher ups are worried about brain drain when compensation is huge factor in that WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Jan 16, 2021 |
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Jan 16, 2021 01:55
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WhyteRyce posted:It's a tricky thing because brain drain did happen the last time they did mass firings. Yeah some people who should have been kicked out years ago got let go, but so did some actual good people because of politics. Other good people just decided to leave because they got mad friends got screwed or just didn't want to hang around in a depressing environment. Any mass firing is going to be tricky because all the rot is going to cover their own rear end and look out for their buddies. Pat was around long enough I hope he knows how to spot it or who the problematic actors are. Yeah that's my hope too, an advantage to coming back to the company is that the same lovely people are mostly in the same positions of power, he should recognize at least some of them.
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Jan 16, 2021 02:02
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DrDork posted:I don't think anyone at Intel isn't aware that it's an existential threat. Then why did they get into the situation they're in now? This was all predictable and telegraphed years in advance. Also, reading this thread as someone who's not an Intel insider (what a great pun, heh, I have lots of their CPUs actually, but am not a company insider), the general attitude of this thread seems to be: "Desktops? Pffft, who cares when there's the server market?" "Server market share? Pffft, they have service contracts until 2080!" Etc, etc, basically the Dick Jones school of project management: "I had a guaranteed military sale with ED 209 - renovation program, spare parts for twenty-five years... Who cares if it worked or not?" I don't get the impression that everyone at Intel is very aware of the situation.
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Jan 16, 2021 02:28
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Pat is obviously being smug and dismissive of Apple because of what some people are saying on a dead forum
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Jan 16, 2021 02:45
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WhyteRyce posted:Pat is obviously being smug and dismissive of Apple because of what some people are saying on a dead forum You're really giving your utmost to dismiss everything I'm saying, great effort! I remember reading in this thread that a lot of mighty insiders whose important opinions must not be dismissed are regulars here, so if posts are being made here that Intel has no problems after all and there's not a lot of disagreement with that, maybe I can be forgiven as taking that as just a little representative of the company. Particularly if it just about 100% matches its actions.
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Jan 16, 2021 02:51
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So, again, I didn't hear Pat's speech to the employees or his email or whatever. And everyone seems to be hammering on and interpreting The Verge article which mentions one whole line. They aren't even talking about the original Oregonian article which had a little more context. I’m sorry I’m dismissive of your opinion but considering you and I weren’t in the employee meeting or knew what the whole statement was and are going off a clipped statement I think it’s really silly to treat any of our opinions of the CEO as all that worthwhile quote:“We have to deliver better products to the PC ecosystem than any possible thing that a lifestyle company in Cupertino” makes, Gelsinger told employees Thursday. That’s a derisive reference to Apple and the location of its corporate headquarters. drat that smug Pat for saying they need to be better than that in the future WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Jan 16, 2021 |
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Jan 16, 2021 03:04
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WhyteRyce posted:So, again, I didn't hear Pat's speech to the employees or his email or whatever. And everyone seems to be hammering on and interpreting The Verge article which mentions one whole line. They aren't even talking about the original Oregonian article which had a little more context. Public Relations 101: Don't start off your new position with something that makes you look dumb, even if accurately quoted. (Referring to the "lifestyle company" quote, not the "good" one.) I'm 100% sure he's a nice, intelligent person and very nuanced if you get to know him. Just needs to learn something about PR. I wish him and Intel good luck!
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Jan 16, 2021 03:11
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WhyteRyce posted:I’m sorry I’m dismissive of your opinion but considering you and I weren’t in the employee meeting or knew what the whole statement was and are going off a clipped statement I think it’s really silly to treat any of our opinions of the CEO as all that worthwhile Reacting to this later because you edited this into your post after mine: With that kind of logic, nothing ever means anything, because who knows, maybe Hitler took everything back in the parts of his meetings that were never published. Face it, the guy said something that makes him look smug / tone deaf /dorky to people who don't dig deep or give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Jan 16, 2021 03:28
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