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Oh yeah one of my other favorite lines is "we're in a tree right now, aren't we!?" Beautiful game. Can't wait to play the enhanced version.
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Jan 15, 2021 15:10
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FutureCop posted:Kinda felt like they lost what they initially built, but again, in a similar fashion to above, maybe this goes with my character getting more comfortable with being a cop and thus, not saying stupid things in the first place (well, at least not incredibly stupid things).[/spoiler] There's definitely some encounters later in the game where this is still true. Several conversations towards the end make saying certain things... risky. But the consequences are usually fairly soft, mechanically - a minus 1 or 2 to checks that you'll need to make later on or a penalty to health and morale that you can fix with drugs, so if you had the right stats and items to pass those checks even saying something dumb isn't gonna mess you up much. Usually. You can and will get killed for saying the wrong thing when talking to the Hardies, though. The game gives you plenty of chances to NOT do that, but if you stubbornly continue to say the things it tells you you probably shouldn't say... yeah. Game over, man, game over. I think that's the only instance of dialogue=death though. Oh wait no there's also shooting Cunoesse but I guess that's more doing the wrong thing during a dialogue than saying the wrong thing.
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Jan 15, 2021 16:08
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You can also get Elizabeth killed by saying the wrong things in the tribunal, though that requires either failing a logic check or just letting it happen without trying the check. You also get a penalty to the red rhetoric check with Ruby if you tell her Tommy snitched on her, which is pretty big. Not sure about the deserter conversation, but it definitely seemed like you could fail to get all of the information out of him by saying the wrong things. ( I remember one of the skills saying "say shot him, not killed" at one point, not sure what happens if you don't take the advice.)
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Jan 15, 2021 16:14
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Staltran posted:What about Trant, though? If you do it at night he's not there, but if he is I can't imagine he wouldn't talk about actual teleportation. too busy looking at the big mural to notice
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Jan 15, 2021 19:34
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Wafflecopper posted:I'm confused. These seem like mutually exclusive pieces of advice. If you die in pathologic 2 you get global stacking debuffs for the remainder of the game. Those debuffs are also applied to earlier saves you made.
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Jan 15, 2021 19:35
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Arrhythmia posted:If you die in pathologic 2 you get global stacking debuffs for the remainder of the game. Those debuffs are also applied to earlier saves you made. can they make the game uncompletable? if not, and they just lock you into a worse ending or something, i can see the logic, it's a kind of unique soft "ironman" system. if they do, i can still see the logic, but it's cruel to the player.
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Jan 15, 2021 19:41
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Doc Hawkins posted:can they make the game uncompletable? if they just lock you into a worse ending, i can see the logic, it's a kind of unique soft "ironman" system. No they cap out after a point. The only "bad" ending per se is if you accept death's bargain to remove those debuffs. The ending can get anemic if you're a bad doctor and a lot of characters die though.
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Jan 15, 2021 19:43
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Doc Hawkins posted:if they do, i can still see the logic, but it's cruel to the player. It's a very cruel game.
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Jan 15, 2021 19:43
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Wafflecopper posted:I'm confused. These seem like mutually exclusive pieces of advice. on top of what everyone else says, the game acknowledges the utility of savescumming in-universe, which was nice for me, who'd slam the Quickload button whenever a knife fight was about to get sticky
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Jan 15, 2021 19:50
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Oxxidation posted:on top of what everyone else says, the game acknowledges the utility of savescumming in-universe, which was nice for me, who'd slam the Quickload button whenever a knife fight was about to get sticky эй, сюда!
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Jan 16, 2021 00:36
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Arrhythmia posted:No they cap out after a point. The only "bad" ending per se is if you accept death's bargain to remove those debuffs. The ending can get anemic if you're a bad doctor and a lot of characters die though. you dont know what a spoiler tag is do you
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Jan 16, 2021 00:48
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yeah I'd advise to go into Pathologic 2 as blind as possible. Not Knowing Things and figuring poo poo out while under tremendous time pressure is a core element of the narrative, and it can be much more satisfying when you actually do figure something out and make a right choice based on tiny scraps of info the game gives you. *Not* figuring something out and getting into trouble or plain wasting time is part of the narrative as well and should be expected  It's interesting really how DE and P2 can feel almost like, I don't know, a double feature or something? They are nothing alike in gameplay, really, but the crossover in themes, topics, atmosphere and the general vibe is definitely there. Almost like a dialogue. Also, one of lead writers of P2 is currently working on translating DE into Russian, which is cool
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Jan 16, 2021 01:10
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P2 is definitely DE's sister game in various weird ways. I think it would be interesting to do a video essay or something like that really comparing them. If I did I think my thesis would be that DE is a triumph of making something with a quite limited scope and feature set but absolutely perfecting what you do attempt. P2 is more of an insane ambition kinda broken moonshot project, and while it is surely great it lives in the shadow of having the other two character routes cut and almost killing the studio. Kind of reflects on the utopia themes of each, amusingly
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Jan 16, 2021 02:45
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Obese Animal.
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Jan 17, 2021 04:14
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EorayMel posted:Obese Animal. 
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Jan 17, 2021 06:24
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Honestly this game is a work of genius. I never cried over computer games, not only is it silly but just never occurred to me. I played Torment, was moved in my teenage years but never felt like crying, I'm not a fan of anime but goons were raging about Nier Automata, I was on sick leave at home so I figured why not, was deeply moved by 9S existential dead-end, never occurred to me to cry over it. I very rarely cry, nevertheless I had tears in my eyes over THE COLORFUL TIE's noble sacrifice. It's just so beautiful.
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Jan 17, 2021 06:41
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They had the audacity to tweet to obsisian, "move over, Torment" and they have every right to do so. Mind you Torment was competing with Fallaout 2 for the best game ever created, honestly they have this right. The Time magazine put it on their cover, it didn't matter where you stand politically, you are a communist now. So powerful was the entry. 
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Jan 17, 2021 07:00
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I still laugh at the seeing fascist thought's turd eyes on the mural
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Jan 17, 2021 15:55
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Wanna do a full replay but saw theres a "Final Cut" Of the game comming. Might as well wait?
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Jan 17, 2021 18:41
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lt looks like a pretty substantive enchanced edition, if you think you might only have one more playthrough in you I'd wait
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Jan 17, 2021 18:45
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BigRed0427 posted:Wanna do a full replay but saw theres a "Final Cut" Of the game comming. Might as well wait? The patient gamer always wins.
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Jan 17, 2021 19:08
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So im going back and reading the DE wiki and im on the page for Dolores Dei and the Innocents and I guess i'm having a little trouble understanding the whole concept of Innocents. Like, I get the idea that Dolores is suppose to be the stand in for Harry's ex. My first playthrough I missed him seeing her again on the last day. And I'm guessing, meta wise, the idea is suppose to be similar to the Great Man theory of History. I guess the idea of what an Innocents i suppose to mean in terms of world building is lost on me. It feels half baked. BigRed0427 fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Jan 17, 2021 |
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Jan 17, 2021 20:04
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They are events that are a person and define the world. The world spirit that is a person. It’s not entirely dissimilar to the Christian idea of the Word made flesh.
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Jan 17, 2021 20:20
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BigRed0427 posted:So im going back and reading the DE wiki and im on the page for Dolores Dei and the Innocents and I guess i'm having a little trouble understanding the whole concept of Innocents. Everyone gets together and says "oh dang, that person is a Great Man of History. we should put them in charge." And then they're in charge.
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Jan 17, 2021 20:44
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They don’t decide, it’s inevitable they be in charge.
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Jan 17, 2021 20:59
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I kind of find myself thinking that Power in of itself is the religion for the ruling class, and the innocents are the physical manifestation of political Power.
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Jan 17, 2021 21:10
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BigRed0427 posted:I kind of find myself thinking that Power in of itself is the religion for the ruling class, and the innocents are the physical manifestation of political Power. Sounds like you understand the concept just fine! I picture like how the American "Founding Fathers" are revered, a secular political-based version of religious idolisation. Dolores Dei just kicks it up a notch where instead of having folk tales about her chopping down a cherry tree, she's got glowing lungs.
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Jan 17, 2021 21:25
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BigRed0427 posted:I kind of find myself thinking that Power in of itself is the religion for the ruling class, and the innocents are the physical manifestation of political Power. Ehhh Hegel had a thing for Napoleon and was a Lutheran. They’re pretty obviously talking this Innocents business from Hegel. They’re the physical manifestation of an idea in a person that then establishes a theonomy, society becomes ordered to produce that idea in everybody that participates in it. But that’s literally in physical sense breaking apart at the time of the game. The open question is who is the next innocent? Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Jan 17, 2021 |
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Jan 17, 2021 23:13
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Kim Kitsuragi is the Innocence of Patience
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Jan 17, 2021 23:31
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I just had the realization that Kim's patience is part of why he can live with moralism and its incrementalism
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Jan 17, 2021 23:34
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Or is living under a moralist regime part of why he's so patient?
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Jan 17, 2021 23:43
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Fister Roboto posted:Or is living under a moralist regime part of why he's so patient? He doesn't stop you from shooting a child
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Jan 18, 2021 01:40
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I think that's just a product of us perceiving time differently than the in universe chars
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Jan 18, 2021 01:52
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Cpt_Obvious posted:He doesn't stop you from shooting a child It's possible that he just wasn't quick enough to react. He has many virtues, he's no slouch, but even he can't predict such things. e: oh wait, I just remembered that Cunoesse has time to scream at you before you shoot. I guess maybe he was just too flabbergasted to react.
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Jan 18, 2021 09:16
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if there's anything that would perturb and stun kim, someone with a gun taking deliberate aim at a child is probably one of 'em
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Jan 18, 2021 19:08
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Kim isn't upset by it because Kim hates children.
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Jan 18, 2021 19:17
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Stairmaster posted:I think that's just a product of us perceiving time differently than the in universe chars I took it as a commentary on the concept of the "good cop", one of those that let the "bad cops" do whatever they want whenever they want. If you've ever seen that picture of the cop kneeling on George Floyd while another cop watches from the side, Kim is the cop who watches. Kim watches Harry commit all the heinous acts he can, and just kind of tut-tuts him along the way. He allows Harry to be anything Harry wants, including an insanely cruel drunken fascist, a racist beyond compare, and a monster. The game allows you to be all these things, and Kim will go along with it because that's his job, to support you no matter how out of control you are. Because that's what moralism is. Moralism is seeing the agents of violence (whether they be airships or armed officers) and justifying their existence as "unconventional, but necessary". And that's not to say that Kim himself is a bad guy. He's kind, understanding, and downright saintly in some respects. But he is complicit in all the terrible things you can make Harry do, and the only time that Kim really refuses to participate is when you insult him personally. Everything else is just kind of up in the air. Anyway, that's just my interpretation. Cpt_Obvious fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Jan 18, 2021 |
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Jan 18, 2021 21:19
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paradoxGentleman posted:It's possible that he just wasn't quick enough to react. He has many virtues, he's no slouch, but even he can't predict such things. If I remember properly, Cunoesse has enough time to stand tall and open her shirt to invite death. Kim makes a feeble attempt to stop you from pointing a gun at a child which is a clear line he should have drawn. Fake Edit: Found it: https://youtu.be/hXyXGK_rZDA?t=281 Cpt_Obvious fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Jan 18, 2021 |
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Jan 18, 2021 21:24
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Cpt_Obvious posted:If I remember properly, Cunoesse has enough time to stand tall and open her shirt to invite death. Kim makes a feeble attempt to stop you from pointing a gun at a child which is a clear line he should have drawn. Amazing. Didn't actually realize this was a possibility.
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Jan 18, 2021 22:23
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Again - Kim doesn't do it because he hates kids. He wants you to shoot Cunoesse.
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Jan 18, 2021 23:29
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