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Unsurprisingly, the wiki has unreliably sourced BS in it (like every other topic I've had to check recently...) so a quick check is useless, but pending commentary from Sawyer I get the feeling you're on the right track. Would be nice to have some official material to go off of.
SkyeAuroline fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Jan 16, 2021 |
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Jan 16, 2021 17:24
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Maybe a dumb question, but this is my first time playing New Vegas: I want to do an Independent Vegas, so I'm following the Wild Cards quests. I just went to Caesar, went underground, and then upgraded Mr. House's Securotrons. Is my only solution to leave The Fort now to shoot my way out? I suppose I'm now committed to not doing any Legion quests anyway but I just want to make sure I'm not locking myself out of anything I don't have to.
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Jan 16, 2021 17:46
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ELI PORTER posted:Maybe a dumb question, but this is my first time playing New Vegas: I want to do an Independent Vegas, so I'm following the Wild Cards quests. I just went to Caesar, went underground, and then upgraded Mr. House's Securotrons. Is my only solution to leave The Fort now to shoot my way out? I suppose I'm now committed to not doing any Legion quests anyway but I just want to make sure I'm not locking myself out of anything I don't have to. You can lie to Caesar and walk out.
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Jan 16, 2021 17:47
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ELI PORTER posted:Maybe a dumb question, but this is my first time playing New Vegas: I want to do an Independent Vegas, so I'm following the Wild Cards quests. I just went to Caesar, went underground, and then upgraded Mr. House's Securotrons. Is my only solution to leave The Fort now to shoot my way out? I suppose I'm now committed to not doing any Legion quests anyway but I just want to make sure I'm not locking myself out of anything I don't have to. Just walk out. Caesar assumes the noise of the bunker activating is the noise of it getting wrecked.
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Jan 16, 2021 17:47
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Oh lol, I didn't realize I could just leave the Weather Station without killing the guards.
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Jan 16, 2021 17:50
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That's by far the most handwavey part of the main quest.
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Jan 16, 2021 18:21
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Servetus posted:Since Honest Hearts has come again, there's something about the White Legs that has always bugged me: Just what was their survival strategy? Daniel gives a bog-standard colonialist line about how they are basically orcs who "exist only to plunder and destroy". The wiki takes Daniel at his word and says that they essentially only survive by salvaging and raiding; this seems extremely unlikely given the low population density of the wasteland and the difficulty of "salvaging" edible food; New Vegas makes fun of Fallout 3 where people are still eating Fancy Lad snack cakes but it's hard to imagine a group lasting for two centuries off of old junk food, much less becoming a military power. Conceivably a group could focus on salvaging old technology and trade for supplies they needed, but we are told that the White Legs are hostile to outsiders and they don't seem to speak the post-war English that the NCR and New Canaanites speak. I think this argument is based off several faulty assumptions. 1) We have no evidence the White Legs are a group that is 200~ years old. They could be, or they could be a group of raiders/tribals pulled together by a strong/charismatic personality (Salt-Upon-Wounds) relatively recently, like the New Vegas Fiends. They could have split off from an agricultural/nomad group. Furthermore they are a power in the area only in comparison to other tiny tribes. The evidence we do have about the White Legs is that they A)Have recently genocided 3 different tribes (Tar Pits, the New Canaanites, and another one), and are attempting to genocide 2 more, and B) Are petitioning to joinCaesar's Legion, a group that is pretty Bad with a capital B. Hunter Gatherer tribes historically did a ton of fighting, raiding, and killing of other tribes, so the White Legs could certainly be doing some hunting/gathering on the side while still being colossal asshats to all the nearby tribes (They have the advantage of automatic rifles) Also, in terms of salvaging, according to Arcade Gannon, most of the stimpaks and other medicine groups like the Followers are using come from pre-war Hospitals and the like (He mentions when recruiting him the Followers will eventually run out and he is doing research into finding new sources). While 200-year old food can't be salvaged in the way, that doesn't mean the White Legs aren't salvaging everything else, from bottles, clothing, and weapons, rather than making their own (Like the Sorrows making their gauntlets, and the Dead Horses making their war clubs). quote:So the simplest explanation seems to me that Daniel is talking out his rear end like the colonialist he is, and that the White Legs are probably a group of Nomadic pastoralists. The claims Daniel makes about them have been made by Europeans about nomadic groups from the Mongols to the Apache, and there is reason to doubt him. Claims that they are incapable of hunting seem unlikely given their grasp of small unit tactics and ambushes, there might be a learning curve around masking scents but it seems more likely that they know how to hunt. Ulysses' logs imply that the 'hunger' was more emotional than physical leading them to follow Caeser, though he does refer to them as Scavengers. 2) Your description of Daniel as a "colonialist" is inaccurate; there's nothing about Daniel that makes him a colonialist. He is proselytizing to the Sorrows, trying to get them to convert, but proselytizing =/= colonialism. Early Christians proselytized inside the Roman Empire, as did early Muslim merchants in Southeast Asia. Neither involved forcibly colonizing and subjecting peoples. Furthermore, you're completely ignoring that he is the victim of a recent genocide; his entire community, or "tribe" have just been murdered, including the women and children, by the White Legs. The New Canaanites went from a prospering town/community to 30-odd survivors, and he is obviously scarred by that experience. In that case, his venom towards the White Legs and describing them as "butchers and plunderers" is pretty understandable. This is not a "White Man's Burden", (Also he's supposed to be Asian, for what that's worth 200 years after the Great War), this is a "They just murdered my entire family, gently caress them", ethos, which he's wrestling in conjunction with his faith teaching him to forgive and show mercy. It's been a while since I've played Honest Hearts, but I also believe his goal with the Sorrows is he wants to preserve their innocence/culture, and get them away from being genocided/force to turn into killers. He finds their culture admirable, not beneath him. While we might say it is misguided (I think so), trying to preserve a native's culture/stop them from being genocided is kind of the opposite of what colonialism is (Which is usually settling/displacing a native group/forcibly assimilating them). His lies to Waking Cloud are also an individual choice; he's worried that telling her the truth will cause her to be weak at a time when her tribe needs her to be strong, not because he thinks she culturally can't handle it (It's been a while so I may not be remembering it right). quote:The problem with this is that if you help Daniel evacuate Zion canyon the White Legs apparently leave it a "polluted cistern", which seems to imply that we were supposed to accept Daniel's explanations. This is a part of Honest Hearts that has rubbed me the wrong way for years, and I'd be interested in what others think. 3) There's nothing stopping nomadic or hunter-gatherer groups from causing ecological disasters. We have evidence of large-scale deforestation in North America hundreds of years prior to Columbus. Also, given that this is 200 years after the Great War and there are tons of pre-war tools and stuff lying around for groups to use and pollute with, if anything a hunter-gatherer group polluting an area (Imagine a group of hunter-gatherers finding a big stache of nuka-cola and leaving the bottles everywhere, or something similar but with plastic/metal) could be even more likely. My two cents.
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Jan 16, 2021 19:12
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what is it with fallout mods and bad quality? i can think of at least three skyrim big expansion mods that are good
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Jan 16, 2021 19:19
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Seemed like the White Legs were a run of the mill raiding tribe… iirc once they found their prewar weapons cache they became a genocidal horde. Was it Ulysses who showed them it or did they find it themselves?
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Jan 16, 2021 19:19
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Mad Wack posted:what is it with fallout mods and bad quality? i can think of at least three skyrim big expansion mods that are good The SomeGuy mods, Northern Road Remastered, and Saxxon's Quests are all good. Some of the Bounties mods are pretty big. Why Boulder Dome, New California (and possible) the Frontier have fatal flaws I'm not sure though, anything worked on for 7 years though is going to have parts the authors don't want to change, just so that they can release them. I'm still waiting on someone making a mod where you get to go to Arizona and help start a Spartacus rebellion or something.
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Jan 16, 2021 19:24
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It's also important to remember that none of the Fallout tribals are indigenous cultures that were here before whitey, they're largely Americans who decided returning to a tribal lifestyle was a better way of living after the apocalypse than scavenging or trying to build facsimiles of the old world out of ruins and trash. That doesn't mean you can't do colonialism to them, but territorial disputes and interactions with more "civilized" groups don't automatically have the European colonialism context that some seem to want to impose on them.
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Jan 16, 2021 19:28
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Mad Wack posted:what is it with fallout mods and bad quality? i can think of at least three skyrim big expansion mods that are good The big persistent problem with communities and community mods is that the people who organize and manage them tend to become their lynchpin. I would bet money that a lot of bad decisions on any given mod were things that lynchpin personnel insisted upon or people weren’t willing / able to push back against. All it takes is one guy holding the spreadsheet turning out to have a lovely sense of humor, and it poisons the whole thing
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Jan 16, 2021 19:28
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Usually the problem is developers and programmers not realizing writing is a separate skill set.
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Jan 16, 2021 19:30
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Lurdiak posted:Usually the problem is developers and programmers not realizing writing is a separate skill set. Also including sex.
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Jan 16, 2021 19:33
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Byzantine posted:Also including sex. I give them a mild pass on that because as embarrassing as that stuff is, there is ample precedent in the Fallout series. Fallout 2 is about as prurient as a Ryan Reynolds vehicle. One of the first random encounters you're likely to have in that game is with Gecko pelt traders who will offer to pay to gently caress you if you're playing a lady, and if you don't have a condom in your inventory you get the poison status effect.
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Jan 16, 2021 19:35
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Lurdiak posted:Usually the problem is developers and programmers not realizing writing is a separate skill set. Also true. A random dude might be woefully ill equipped to pull off retrofuture satire, but he’s probably read enough high fantasy not to cock up the basics
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Jan 16, 2021 19:36
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If I had a programmer buddy I'd love to write a fallout quest mod about a mad dash to buy some elvis vinyls for the Kings from a passing trader before someone else grabs them, but we live in unfair times.
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Jan 16, 2021 19:36
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Arcsquad12 posted:If I had a programmer buddy I'd love to write a fallout quest mod about a mad dash to buy some elvis vinyls for the Kings from a passing trader before someone else grabs them, but we live in unfair times. Ghoulified Roy Orbison is involved somehow.
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Jan 16, 2021 20:12
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MariusLecter posted:Ghoulified Roy Orbison is involved somehow. Hey if Tommy Torini is just reincarnated Wasteland Sammy Davis Jr then we can have Rot Orbison as a ghoul.
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Jan 16, 2021 20:32
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Instead of bootleg Howard Hughes, it's actually Elvis who revived Vegas after 300 years of dormancy.
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Jan 16, 2021 21:23
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:The SomeGuy mods, Northern Road Remastered, and Saxxon's Quests are all good. Some of the Bounties mods are pretty big. Why Boulder Dome, New California (and possible) the Frontier have fatal flaws I'm not sure though, anything worked on for 7 years though is going to have parts the authors don't want to change, just so that they can release them. thanks for these recs, will check em out!
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Jan 16, 2021 21:23
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Trainwhiz's New Vegas mod is fun. It's a bit too large of a worldspace for the amount of content it offers but I do like the tribal railroad conductor.
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Jan 16, 2021 21:40
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So far from my experience the Frontier is aiming to have a different style, design philosophy, and tone than New Vegas did. Which is fine, but it is still causing me to recoil instinctively at things like NPCs not being killable and plotlines being rigid and the world being less reactive if at all. But it's hard for me to call anything I've experienced so far bad, keeping that in mind. But it's a fan worldspace mod so I'm tensing and bracing to run across something like "here is the tribe who can only communicate by using different inflections of the worlds 'poo poo,' 'piss,' and 'rear end.'"
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Jan 16, 2021 22:00
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Arcsquad12 posted:Trainwhiz's New Vegas mod is fun. It's a bit too large of a worldspace for the amount of content it offers but I do like the tribal railroad conductor. That made one of the harder bounties from Bounties II way easier - the NCR troopers guarding the tunnel tanked some of the gang for me it was great. Also the station in Boulder City likes to wipe out the Vipers nearby.
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Jan 16, 2021 22:15
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Haven't gotten particularly far yet, but right now I'd describe the writing as varying from "serviceable" to "decent," with a handful of cringe-inducing moments. I'm really not a fan of everyone treating the courier as Big poo poo from the moment you arrive though.
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Jan 16, 2021 22:16
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I will say though that while the writing is somewhat uneven thus far it's obviously extremely impressive, the fact that they've managed to do half this poo poo with gamebryo of all things is incredible.
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Jan 16, 2021 22:33
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Nobody was or should be asking for a new FPS in the Gamebryo engine, but it all sounds like resume fodder anyway. No reason to be mad at it, no reason to be mad for it.
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Jan 16, 2021 22:40
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Lurdiak posted:The themes and what little story there is are fine, but functionally you're walking in circles in a big empty canyon fighting geckos, yao guai and white legs over and over, doing like 5 quests and then leaving. There are no interesting hot spots whatsoever, there are basically no traders outside of Joshua who has a pitiful amount of caps which makes it annoying to accumulate loot, the only interesting enemy is a bear on fire that dies in one hit, there's barely any npcs to talk to, and everything with Joshua and his questline feels super underdone. You don't spend nearly enough time getting to know him to get attached to his fate and the decision about wiping out the white legs or taking a peaceful path. It's so goddamn boring and empty. All I get out of it is a bunch of datura roots and cave fungus to make items I no longer need by the time I decide to venture out and do the DLC. It straight up feels like an unfinished product to me. ... But then again, just the entire premise of getting to decide whether these "natives" get to defend themselves or maintain their "innocence" is flawed as gently caress regardless.
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Jan 16, 2021 22:47
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Basic Chunnel posted:Nobody was or should be asking for a new FPS in the Gamebryo engine, but it all sounds like resume fodder anyway. No reason to be mad at it, no reason to be mad for it. yeah i deffo aint mad i think the hype around it just briefly raised my expectations above "fan mod" which was probably a bad idea on my part
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Jan 16, 2021 23:58
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SkyeAuroline posted:from the other thread like if you say this you get yelled at by that... bug or whatever it is right?!
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Jan 17, 2021 00:05
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DACK FAYDEN posted:this is a joke right 
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Jan 17, 2021 00:31
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The Courier - gets shot in the head, walks it off - knows every weapon and how to lockpick and how to hack - can smoothtalk their way out of literally anything - is just a mailman, becomes the key player with regards to the future of the entire west coast of America - can be a Mailman Dictator - can be a Mailman Gofer - can be a Mailman Hero of the Republic - can be a Mailman Hero of the Legion - hosed a robot - wants to gently caress that bug
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Jan 17, 2021 02:07
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speak for yourself, guns < 20 for lyfe
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Jan 17, 2021 02:29
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Having actually handled a gun, the speed of the reloading in this game bothers me. Even a courier with a 3 in Guns can consistently slam a clip into a hunting rifle, or stuff bullets into the cowboy repeater. I've said it before that I want to make a mod that makes reload speed depend on Guns skill, not agility.
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Jan 17, 2021 03:48
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DACK FAYDEN posted:this is a joke right Better view of the bug(?). 
MariusLecter fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Jan 17, 2021 |
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Jan 17, 2021 04:34
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Looks like this may have been co-written by Troy McClure.
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Jan 17, 2021 04:55
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If there is one thing the internet has taught me, it's that there is nothing so bizarre that it isn't someone's fetish.
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Jan 17, 2021 05:01
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JawKnee posted:speak for yourself, guns < 20 for lyfe I wrote a whole mod just so I could punch stuff with my bare hands as good as Ranger Stella Because guns are boring
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Jan 17, 2021 07:21
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Chamale posted:Having actually handled a gun, the speed of the reloading in this game bothers me. Even a courier with a 3 in Guns can consistently slam a clip into a hunting rifle, or stuff bullets into the cowboy repeater. I've said it before that I want to make a mod that makes reload speed depend on Guns skill, not agility. I love this idea! Behold, a user with 100 guns fires and reloads his big iron. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzHG-ibZaKM&t=56s
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Jan 17, 2021 07:48
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Having been working my way through all the content in Tale of Two Wastelands, the difference in writing between FO3 and NV is striking. You go from having nuanced conversations with even relatively inconsequential NPCs in New Vegas, then when talking to a main quest giver in FO3 your options are like "Okay I won't murder everything" and "I loving LOVE to murder everything." It's bad.
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Jan 17, 2021 08:07
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